Hi, I am asking this for a friend (since I am usually the zerg going 3 hatch lurker instead of spire first). What should he be doing, assuming he opened 1 rax FE into 4 rax and going standard, expecting mutas since what he scouted early on with his SCV appears to be 3h mutas (the opening are exactly the same, first difference is when you drop down hydra den at 60% lair).

Should he go

A) Fast tank and vessels to push out my lurkers/lings contain near his nat
B) Fast dropships to abuse the fact that I dont have mutas/scourges as early
C) Mass rines medic and pull out gosu stim spread rines to break before i have too much lurks at his door
D) Something else?

Thanks for your input! I will share the thread with him when I have some replies.

BigFan

TLADT24920 Posts

October 12 2017 04:25 GMT

I would say fast tank and vessels. I mean, you can do the rest but if you're going dropships, you'll be getting a factory anyways for tanks. Sure, dropship play is annoying but a good zerg can also still defend it. Mass rines medic is something that you should be doing regardless. Aka, moving out his natural or third and all over to try and snipe and then join with the rest of your army etc...

Demurity

United States424 Posts

October 12 2017 15:54 GMT

If 3h lurker, go double starport dropships. Straight vessel, and vulture mines, no tank. 3h lurker can get defiler faster. So if you mistime tanks, they become more difficult to push unless you have like 6 rax + tanks + vessels. Terran can also get 3rd faster (1 starport) if vs 3h lurker.

sM.Zik

Canada2553 Posts

October 12 2017 17:34 GMT

Thanks for the replies! I do like double starport ideas to get fast vessels and dropship to abuse the later spire for the zerg.

Highgamer

1470 Posts

October 12 2017 18:16 GMT

Dunno how fast your friend is, but pure bio+vessel/dropship is pretty hard to play though if you don't cripple him instantly, especially if Zerg is playing the 3hatch-lurk aggressively or knows how to defend drops.. a few tanks are not too bad against lurkers... fast hive/swarm was mentioned, too...

One thing that wasn't mentioned (or only implicit by BigFan): If you scan-scout the 3hatch-lurker, you will always have enough time to soft-contain Zerg with your first group of M&M, force sunkens, move back bit by bit, sniping lurkers and killing zerglings, scouting and attacking Zerg's third. I think this is essential at some level, otherwise you will get out-macroed if he gets away with few lurkers and free fast 3rd. Maybe fast drops soft-counter this a bit later, but as said: you'll have to pull of some plays then, and you should pressure early still.

I think doing the soft-contain and going for a faster tech and 2nd gas (you won't need turrets) is the more standard option. You can then either go 2 factory with more tanks or mines or two starport, still.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28804 Posts

October 15 2017 23:56 GMT

I think you should definitely get a couple tanks. you need them to force z to run into you. Going like 2 tank and then vulture for mines, that's fine, but man am I delighted if I go 3 hatch lurker and the terran insists on not getting any tanks at all. 2 starport rather than 2 fac is something I totally support, you definitely want to drop a lot, and you want plenty vessels as they aren't gonna be contested.

Demurity

United States424 Posts

October 16 2017 16:37 GMT

On October 16 2017 08:56 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think you should definitely get a couple tanks. you need them to force z to run into you. Going like 2 tank and then vulture for mines, that's fine, but man am I delighted if I go 3 hatch lurker and the terran insists on not getting any tanks at all. 2 starport rather than 2 fac is something I totally support, you definitely want to drop a lot, and you want plenty vessels as they aren't gonna be contested.

Can you clarify the above? Are you saying that 2 tank + mines OR 2 port are ok? Terran can't do both

Liquid`Drone

Norway28804 Posts

October 16 2017 16:48 GMT

terran can do both. seeing no spire you can get the second gas a little earlier than you would otherwise do, and you make the second port a little later than going pure sk. 2 tanks and siege mode is only 350 gas, get second gas 20 seconds earlier than you otherwise would and your second starport 50 seconds later than you otherwise would (1 vessel cycle) and you're there.

sM.Zik

Canada2553 Posts

October 17 2017 01:24 GMT

Lots of useful tips here, these will be helpful for my friend. Hopefully for him he can kick my ass next time I pull out this build

saalih905

8 Posts

October 20 2017 19:21 GMT

#10

I've seen Flash handle that build fairly easily with just mines. This will only work if he scouts it in time before the initial lurkers move out. Once he scans the den or no spire, immediately, he should drop a forward bunker, research mines and start vulture production. The mines will prevent any forward attack with lurkers. Mines will give him total map control- he will then have the option to get a third, get a 2nd starport and do dropship play and get a bunch of sci vessels.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28804 Posts

October 20 2017 19:36 GMT

#11

if lurkers never manage to burrow outside your bridge or whatever then I can see how you can skip the tank. My experience is that terrans need tank to push away my lurkers from their bridge, though. Flash's timing and game sense is probably good enough to not get contained.

jinjin5000

United States1529 Posts

October 21 2017 23:30 GMT

#12

On October 21 2017 04:21 saalih905 wrote:
I've seen Flash handle that build fairly easily with just mines. This will only work if he scouts it in time before the initial lurkers move out. Once he scans the den or no spire, immediately, he should drop a forward bunker, research mines and start vulture production. The mines will prevent any forward attack with lurkers. Mines will give him total map control- he will then have the option to get a third, get a 2nd starport and do dropship play and get a bunch of sci vessels.

could you link me to games that he did it in his vods?

BonitiilloO

Dominican Republic627 Posts

January 23 2024 17:30 GMT

#13

sorry to bump this but in getting into the same situation as described here, i wish i can upload a replay just here but gonna explain how the game goes

he does 12hatch, 11pool,gas, 3rd hatch in main and goes straight to lurkers, by the time i go out with a pretty much standard academy timing 24 supply or so. he already has lurkers and sunken or lurkers already borrow in the middle of the map

sometimes the guy puts hydra den and spire at the same time and its really difficult to judge unless u scan.

by the time i have vessels and tanks he mostly has defilers, so what im missing here?

rararara

115 Posts

January 23 2024 22:28 GMT

#14

bunker rush

MeSaber

Sweden1235 Posts

January 24 2024 04:31 GMT

#15

On January 24 2024 02:30 BonitiilloO wrote:
sorry to bump this but in getting into the same situation as described here, i wish i can upload a replay just here but gonna explain how the game goes

he does 12hatch, 11pool,gas, 3rd hatch in main and goes straight to lurkers, by the time i go out with a pretty much standard academy timing 24 supply or so. he already has lurkers and sunken or lurkers already borrow in the middle of the map

sometimes the guy puts hydra den and spire at the same time and its really difficult to judge unless u scan.

by the time i have vessels and tanks he mostly has defilers, so what im missing here?

You can upload replay via repmastered (google).