EPTThen I have no idea why Ultra atk speed is not changed.
T-T confused now T-T
[Proposal]A list of popular stats misconceptions - Page 2
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Last Romantic
United States20667 Posts
Then I have no idea why Ultra atk speed is not changed. T-T confused now T-T | ||
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
http://www.geocities.com/adam.crooks/BWStatsV2.1.xls Courtesy of Adam Crooks from gg.net. | ||
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stambe
Bulgaria499 Posts
It still hits the ultra and any other unit, even that its 25% splash range is little shorter than the displacement of the attack animation, because no unit is - let say 5 matrices wide either vertically or horizontally and part of it enters the splash range of the archon. Contrary to the formula for normal hits where the damage dealt is calculated in this manner - (damage of the unit-defender's armor)xdamage type. FU Tank fire at FU Hydra > (85-3)x0.75=61.5 the splash dmg is calculated like this: Example- FU Archon- 39 normal dmg, FU Ultra 6 armor (damage ot attacker) x splash range damage[also considering armor and weapon types] - armor of the defender So the numbers are as follows: 39 x 0.25 - 6 = 9.75 - 6 = 3.75 i the damage FU Archon does against FU ultra under swarm considering both targets are staying still because if the ultra i moving toward the archon it may enter its 50% splash range and suffer more damage, or the opposite - running away and escape damage completly. If you ignore zerg regeneration so after two hit archon will deal 7.5 of which only the 7 damage will be applied and the other 0.5 damage will be stored for next hits. After 4 hits the damage will be 15 - 1 damage healed cause of regen = 14. About the corsair thing - their splash is calculated somewhat strange. First the splash range penalty is applied(i.e. 25%,50%,75%), then the armor of the defender is deducted from the sair damage, and last is the damage/armor type penalty For sair with no dmg upgrades and muta with 1 armor the splash will deal: [(sair damage x splash range penalty)- muta armor ] x armor/damage type penalty If the muta is in the 50 % splash range the damage dealt is: [(5 x 0.5) -1 ] x 0.5{because sairs damage is explosive and deals 50 % damage to small units as mutas}=(2.5 - 1) x 0.5 = 1.5 x 0.5 = 0.75 damage per hit(splash damage). Ignoring rengeneration after 8 hits on the main muta, the sair would have done (5 damage - 1 armor)/2(explosive damage)= 2 damage , so 2 x 8 = 16 damage. The second muta in the 50% splash range will take 8 x 0.75 = 6 damage. Corsair splash is made this way maybe for balance reasons, cause in mass they will be almost invincible( valks without the sprite bug will beat them badly costwise  | ||
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TaP.Nuada
United States428 Posts
On March 30 2007 08:49 oddeye wrote: Devourer -- not only increase weapon cooldown on the affected unit Wow I actually only tought it increased the damage delt per attack T_T such a surprise to me. Yeah, I thought this as well. I'm going to want to test it out now  | ||
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Instigata
United States546 Posts
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Continuity
United Kingdom34 Posts
stambe <3 <3 <3 This thread is  . Lurkers are medium! That's why tanks are somewhat less lethal to my pretties than I thought they should be...My small contribution is (from memory, correct me if I'm wrong): Muta bounce (without grades) does 9 direct damage, then 3 damage first bounce, then 1 damage second bounce. Thing is, each of those stacks with devourer acid, so if you've got a muta firing against 3 targets, all with 9 spores attached to them, it does 9+9 direct damage, then 3+9 first bounce, then 1+9 second bounce. So you get an extra 9*3=27(!) damage per muta, not just an extra 9. Against heavy targets (like BCs with 3 armour), it's a big improvement because without the spores the bounces only do tiny amounts of damage (0.5/shot?) because of the armour, so it's like going from 6+0.5+0.5 to 15+9+7 (+24). The first time I tried to actually understand and apply the air balance model, I was playing an island map against one of those people who think turtle -> mass BCs = instant win, and I was surprised at how effective devs+mass muta was. This probably had something to do with it  Most people reading this hopefully know that, but I've seen a few people say that it's only the direct damage or just miss the fact that it affects the bounces too.. Anyway, great thread! | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
Firebats is 3x8 splash. If the unit is right next to them, then end up doing less than 16 usually. That's why they're less effective when enemy units are already in melee range. | ||
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wXs.Havok
Argentina529 Posts
On March 30 2007 08:41 BluzMan wrote: - This is usually not mentioned on stat pages and impossible to acquire via editors like Arsenal Zero: acid spores, the side-effect of devourer's attack, not only increase weapon cooldown on the affected unit, but also reduce it's armor by the number that is displayed on the unit status bar. The resulting armor value can go below zero. So, Acid Spores(9) means the affected unit will take +9 effective damage from all attacks, before unit size/weapon type calculations. WOW!!!!!1 SO MUCH YEARS PLAYING AND NEVER KNEW THIS!! | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On March 30 2007 15:30 azndsh wrote: I remember reading somewhere life was calculated to the 1/256, which seems a bit dubious actually. However, minimum damage is 1/2. Firebats is 3x8 splash. If the unit is right next to them, then end up doing less than 16 usually. That's why they're less effective when enemy units are already in melee range. It's true. HP amount in data files is stored as 256 * actual hp showed(you can see that with arsenal zero), so accuracy should be 1/256 and I've done some tests with +1,2,3 upgraded mutalisks last bounce and it did pretty accurately 10/9,11/9,12/9 damage per hit, so it's definitely not rounded to 1/2, but minimum damage is 1/2  Firebats info is also true.Corsairs have medium armor type(or usually referred as unit size) and as Valkyries have a special splash attack, which does 100% damage to only 1 unit, no matter how much units are in the 100% splash zone, the rest will take 50% and even if the 100% splash zone is set to 0, one unit from the 50% zone will still take 100% damage(if there is a unit there, since valk missiles explode away from the target sometimes). Damage calculation is done this way for every single unit/case: 1. Reduction from splash zone(damage is multiplied by .25/.5/1.) 2. Armor amount reduction 3. Armor type reduction If it's a protoss unit and: a) Currently has no shields, just the armor type and amount of the unit are used. b) It has shields, the shield upgrade amount is used and the armor type takes 100% from everything. If this attack depletes the shields, the leftover damage after depleting the shields is calculated again as in case a) | ||
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PanoRaMa
United States5070 Posts
edit: WTF reading compendium, apparently Hydras are explosive? I thought they were normal good god.. | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On March 30 2007 23:05 PanoRaMa wrote: What's ridiculous is that for all these years I've been playing (well on and off), primarily as a Terran player when I was really into SC a few years back, I had ALWAYS thought UNsieged Tanks were concussive damage and thus were okay in dealing with zealots in that form. My idiocy was exposed when during a game of Random Individual Defense.scx, it was an all-zergling round and I unsieged my tanks because I was like omg concussive + faster cooldown > explosive splash + high cooldown vs lingz~~ edit: WTF reading compendium, apparently Hydras are explosive? I thought they were normal good god.. Of course they are explosive, otherwise Hydra > Rines BY A LOT. | ||
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Locked
United States4182 Posts
posted wrong thing! i take it back, damage calculated in fractions but minimum is still 0.5 and yeah hydras are explosive, another reason why hydras are bad zvz (mutas are small so 50% damage to mutas AND lings ) | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12816 Posts
I never seen them do 24 damange up front though... but It IS indeed 3x8 dmg... weird. ![[image loading]](http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/4433/untitledgw6.jpg) | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
First of all, it is NOT "number of attacks". Number of attacks is the exact value used for the "damage x number of attacks = displayed damage" formula, and firebats have this value set to 2. The only exception would be valkyrie, its displayed damage is an unique case. However, IIRC, not only firebats have this thing higher than 1, so I'm very interested how exactly is this calculated. And thank you everyone, I've updated the initial post with some common stuff. The point of this thread is to give a good direction to beginners, there's no point in overloading them with purely technical stuff, so interesting, but not game-breaking info will be put in spoiler tags. While knowing how health is stored in 1/256 is very interesting, there's still a healthy number of people who think lurkers are large and sairs deal normal damage. Such misconceptions could affect one's play very much. | ||
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EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
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stambe
Bulgaria499 Posts
transport) in an angle between 35-70 degrees. It CANNOT occur on small units no matter what the angle or the distance is, since firebat range is 32-48 matrices at most. Something weird about bats is that in some cases one of the cones of damage, depending on the distance, has it's own splash range - i.e. one of the cones does its full damage against zergling, but the other does only 50% due to reasons i havent fully uncovered. About Devourer spores i've heard many times the following misconception: "When you are attacked by cloaked wraiths and you move your Devos on top of them and you target one of your devos with the others, the splash effect of the spores will reveal the wraiths !" Well, i can say thats total bull**** !!! I've tested it in MP games, and in USM games and the results were the same. Even if only one of group of ten wraiths is visible and the others are cloaked, but they are stacked together, you can target and kill the visible wraith but the spores wont reveal the rest, even though they are close enough to be splashed if they weren't cloaked(spores splash hits about 1.5 x 1.5 matrices,or maybe 2x2 im not sure - must check my numbers ) | ||
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lololol
5198 Posts
On March 31 2007 04:00 evanthebouncy~ wrote: It's strange how firebat does 3x8 damange... I never seen them do 24 damange up front though... but It IS indeed 3x8 dmg... weird. You can't because units that take 100% from concussive damage are too small to fit into the three splash zones You can however see that a burrowed lurker takes 2 or 3 hits depending on the angle of attack, with no upgrades the amount of damage would be either 7 or 10.5, since burrowed units don't take damage from the 50% and 25% zones, if it's unburrowed you would get more than 2 different damage values and it will be harder to notice the exact damage and nature of attack due to regen.Max hits is a value that's only used in the editor to show the amount of hits. The actual amount of missiles launched is a different value in the .dat files(in DatEdit it's reffered as factor) and some units have specific attack patterns(zealots/lurkers/firebats/valks), which is stored in other files ^^ and the damage shown in-game is also a different thing(which is hard coded into the game IIRC). Just to confirm: Devourer's spores splash only on currently visible/detected units, but units hit by spores will be visible to everyone. | ||
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InRaged
1047 Posts
On March 31 2007 06:50 EmS.Radagast wrote: Attacking your own air units with devourers doesn't inflict Acid Spores on any of them, not even the target And it affects your ally as he is your enemy. So be aware! ^_^ awww... I fully ackonwledge stumbe's statement about acids. Pretty interesting — doesn't work on units that you can't see. | ||
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Vin{MBL}
5185 Posts
On March 30 2007 10:59 thedeadhaji wrote: when a shield battery is used on an unit, that unit pauses for a moment instead of conintuously attacking. yea i only realized this yesterday | ||
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Locked
United States4182 Posts
also i always found dev spores a little confusing too, nice to see that information it's funny because you can hit wraiths while they're uncloaked, and then if they cloak they're still visible ^_^ but if they're all cloaked and you have nothing to splash on them then you can't see them without ovies and yeah firebats have 3 attacks in a similar way zealots have 2 attacks... except that the zeal 2 attacks usually automatically hit and as people have mentioned the firebat usually misses on smaller units | ||
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