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Cool video!
About spamming in the beginning: isn't it also true that you can obtain marginal benefit by "juggling" the first workers around so that they travel a bit shorter? It has always puzzled me how many good players spam their workers like crazy, yet can't be bothered to actually put those actions to use.
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Canada11379 Posts
In the situation with the hydras that you presented, would the fast thing to do would be to double click one? Or is this more for when you have more than a hotkey group and the remnant will jam the selected together?
I don't know about juggling, but I try and send workers to open patches when I'm spamming at the beginning.
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On February 07 2014 04:15 Falling wrote:
In the situation with the hydras that you presented, would the fast thing to do would be to double click one? Or is this more for when you have more than a hotkey group and the remnant will jam the selected together?
I don't know about juggling, but I try and send workers to open patches when I'm spamming at the beginning.
come on man double clicking is like 2006, ctrl click is where its at, i cant double click already moving zergling for shit so i got used to ctrl click for ease 
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On February 07 2014 02:37 fencer wrote:
Cool video!
About spamming in the beginning: isn't it also true that you can obtain marginal benefit by "juggling" the first workers around so that they travel a bit shorter? It has always puzzled me how many good players spam their workers like crazy, yet can't be bothered to actually put those actions to use.
Yeah you can, and I do that sometimes. I'll cover it in a later video but I'm not that great at it so I'll have to practice it some more  I'm starting with the more basic stuff though.
On February 07 2014 04:15 Falling wrote:
In the situation with the hydras that you presented, would the fast thing to do would be to double click one? Or is this more for when you have more than a hotkey group and the remnant will jam the selected together?
I don't know about juggling, but I try and send workers to open patches when I'm spamming at the beginning.
Ctrl-Click would be the true fastest method, but it was more to demonstrate if you wanted to select specific hydralisks. If there had been 30 hydras on the screen and you only wanted that 6, Ctrl-Click wouldn't work.
Doubleclick's too slow.
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Canada11379 Posts
I did not know about control click except when selecting wire-frame within control groups, so you see I have learned something already. Even if I was stuck in 2006 
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Northern Ireland26223 Posts
This is pretty cool for us mechanics nerds, shall have a re-watch later as I'm kind of zoning out here.
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this is really helpful for new players... i wish we had a series like this back in 2003 T_T
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Oh wow you can ctrl click instead of doubleclicking, my mind is blown. This is just like when I was a newbie and found out you can shift select.
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In addition to ctrl+click, you can also alt+click a unit to select that unit's most recently selected group. For example, if that unit was most recently selected as part of ctrl group 1, alt+clicking that unit will select ctrl group 1. However, if for example you just select a few units randomly, EVEN IF THEY ARE PART OF A CTRL GROUP, and then select something else that doesn't include one of those units, the next time you alt+click one of those units you just randomly selected together, it will reselect your "random" selection group.
Unless, that is, you press 1 again, which re-selects the units in the ctrl group 1. This action will reset that alt-group for the units in ctrl group 1. For the units that are not in ctrl group 1, but still are part of the random alt-group, alt+clicking it will reselect the alt+group.
Hard to explain, but I don't feel like making a video. Load up some probes and just mess around with it. You'll see what I mean.
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On February 07 2014 17:16 hp.Shell wrote:
In addition to ctrl+click, you can also alt+click a unit to select that unit's most recently selected group. For example, if that unit was most recently selected as part of ctrl group 1, alt+clicking that unit will select ctrl group 1. However, if for example you just select a few units randomly, EVEN IF THEY ARE PART OF A CTRL GROUP, and then select something else that doesn't include one of those units, the next time you alt+click one of those units you just randomly selected together, it will reselect your "random" selection group.
Unless, that is, you press 1 again, which re-selects the units in the ctrl group 1. This action will reset that alt-group for the units in ctrl group 1. For the units that are not in ctrl group 1, but still are part of the random alt-group, alt+clicking it will reselect the alt+group.
Hard to explain, but I don't feel like making a video. Load up some probes and just mess around with it. You'll see what I mean.
I did not know that...that's madness.
IIRC you can also select a unit and press alt+# to add a unit to control group #.
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Northern Ireland26223 Posts
Does the alt + click thing work in Sc2 because if so that is actually something of which IO was previously unaware!
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On February 07 2014 22:17 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 17:16 hp.Shell wrote:
In addition to ctrl+click, you can also alt+click a unit to select that unit's most recently selected group. For example, if that unit was most recently selected as part of ctrl group 1, alt+clicking that unit will select ctrl group 1. However, if for example you just select a few units randomly, EVEN IF THEY ARE PART OF A CTRL GROUP, and then select something else that doesn't include one of those units, the next time you alt+click one of those units you just randomly selected together, it will reselect your "random" selection group.
Unless, that is, you press 1 again, which re-selects the units in the ctrl group 1. This action will reset that alt-group for the units in ctrl group 1. For the units that are not in ctrl group 1, but still are part of the random alt-group, alt+clicking it will reselect the alt+group.
Hard to explain, but I don't feel like making a video. Load up some probes and just mess around with it. You'll see what I mean. I did not know that...that's madness. IIRC you can also select a unit and press alt+# to add a unit to control group #.
Mind=blown. Shift+# adds the selected unit(s) to that group and alt+# selects and centers your screen on that group. I've played thousands of BW games and never knew this before o_0
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The more of these kind of videos the better ! :D
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I've started using CTRL + C a lot
It centers your view on the currently selected unit or structure
It's very useful.
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Dominican Republic627 Posts
i have a question tho... i usually see stream on sniperslot and players like mong, hiya, ample, eCaruS,
they can have a lot of units in the rally point and they can CTRL #1 #2 #3 #4 without getting the same units on the same control? how do i can do that?
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On February 13 2014 09:58 SC2BF3Love wrote:
i have a question tho... i usually see stream on sniperslot and players like mong, hiya, ample, eCaruS,
they can have a lot of units in the rally point and they can CTRL #1 #2 #3 #4 without getting the same units on the same control? how do i can do that?
Assuming I understand your question, it's all manually selecting different units. You can do the same thing by just making sure you select the correct units with each box select (or manually shift select several units).
Last exam was today so I'll try get another episode done tonight or tomorrow.
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Just added the third video, covering ordinary hotkeys. Much of it may not be new to seasoned players but there's a few things which some relatively "experienced" players don't even know, so it's worth a look. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiVQBPOw5is
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Nice video as always!
If I had to suggest something, it would be to lower the ingame sounds a bit, as they kind of drown out your voice sometimes.
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Yeah I noticed it in the last video but didn't want to redo it, I'll do a better test run next time.
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France77 Posts
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Helpful videos! But don't forget to finish StarServer!
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On February 25 2014 23:33 Magreidis wrote:
Helpful videos! But don't forget to finish StarServer!
I have a feeling that's not something that would just OOPS, slip his mind. teehee
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On February 25 2014 23:33 Magreidis wrote:
Helpful videos! But don't forget to finish StarServer!
Yup of course not, these videos only take a small amount of my time. Speaking of which, I will have another one out soon, possibly this evening
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alt controlling, ctrl + c... wtf is this shit? rofl, never knew about that
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Holy shit I taught TechnicS something? Nice.
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BW, the game that goes ever deeper.
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Now for Video Number 4
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On March 07 2014 05:53 DemonDayz wrote:Now for Video Number 4
Very busy with university and work and soccer and so on But perhaps this Saturday ;D
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On March 07 2014 12:27 Birdie wrote:Very busy with university and work and soccer and so on But perhaps this Saturday ;D
No rush bro I understand the strain of varsity myself
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On February 09 2014 01:20 vOdToasT wrote:
I've started using CTRL + C a lot
It centers your view on the currently selected unit or structure
It's very useful.
Okay after messing around with CTRL+ C trying to find how it works, after much frusteration and confusion I have figured it out I have determined that ctrl + C is AMAZING. ctrl + C might be the most amazing command after the shift + select kinda stuff. I will try my best to explain it now, I am not very good at explaining stuff so expect me to repeat stuff.
I will use the following abbreviations...
zX = a zergling and x is the slot in the control group its in.
mX = mutalisk
fX = defiler
So if you select a single zergling it would be z1 and if you select another zergling it would be below it, so it will be called z2. If you box select those two units it will be random what zergling is in what slot. Here is a visual representation of the numbers each unit in the control group has. + Show Spoiler +
1-3-5-7- 9- 11
2-4-6-8-10-12
So what ctrl + C does when you have a group of 12 zerglings is center your view on z1. If z1 dies or if its deselected all the zerglings will move up 1 place. So once z1 is not in the control group z2 will become z1 and if you press ctrl + C again it will center over the former z2 which is now z1. The first example that comes to mind is when you have 1 overlord and 11 mutas in a control group and if the mutas are across the map, if you double tap the hotkey they are on it will bring your screen about 1-2 screen lengths away from where your mutas are. With ctrl + C it will center your screen over the mutalisks(over mutalisk m1), and you will no longer have to use your mouse to scroll to where they are or select them on the minimap. A small amount of thinking will lead you to many other useful things you can use ctrl + C for.
But it gets better! The ctrl + C is more complicated than simply centering your view over the first unit in the control group, different units have different priorities and if there is a group of selected units with different priorities it will center your view over the unit with the highest priority and the lowest number in the group. As an example, z1 through z8 are zerglings and f9 f10 f11 f12, if you press ctrl + C it will center your screen over f9. But lets say f12 dies and you add a ultralisk to the group. If you press ctrl + C it will center your view on the ultralisk. I don't know how the unit priority is decided, but with zerg here are a list of unit priorities I have found through the testing.
+ Show Spoiler +Overlord has a higher priority than a zergling
Hydralisk has a higher priority than a overlord
Mutalisk has a higher priority than a overlord
defilers have a higher priority than a zergling
ultralisks have a higher priority than a defiler.
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Ah I see, I am 99% sure you are correct. The reason it took me a lot of time to figure out and why it got frustrating was because I decided to mess around with it in the middle of that one Muta UMS with the hero mutalisks. I knew about this for about a week before I decided to make a post about this. Before I started testing I thought ctrl + C centered your screen based on which view would give you the highest number of units, but before I made the post I wanted to figure out what happened when there were equal units across the map. It took me quite a bit of time to figure out that unit priority existed and that the hero mutas were the cause, was going to make a joke about that hero units have the highest priority, but I forgot while writing it. After I discovered unit priority I worked out the rest in a solo game very quickly.
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Another useless piece of data regarding ctrl+c, here goes:
Sometimes ctrl+c and double clicking the hotkey work differently even for one unit selected
+ Show Spoiler +
(disregard the vulture's portrait, it was being attacked but the experiment was not affected).
If you double click the hotkey of a dispersed selected group of units, the 'center' function will simply return the unweighted mean of their coordinates, i.e. no matter what units are in the group - they are considered the same. Compare:
+ Show Spoiler +
Thankfully humanity uses the 12-hours clock system, else I would've never distributed shit uniformly around the circle.
I then applied a series of selections like so
+ Show Spoiler +
eliminating 1 leftmost row of vultures each time to see how the main guy in the group (also the one you'd be centered at after ctrl+c or double clicking the hotkey) changes it's place. Amusingly it went zigzag
+ Show Spoiler +
the eastern group of 3 vultures is missing because it demonstrated random behaviour and the 'main' vulture would change almost every time. That was really strange as up till that point my results were quite consistent (although not 100% times, but like 90% which is weird itself). With these 3 however I failed to detect any law how it works.
I tried to investigate the case and made a bunch of screenshots in the process, but that's when my win7 stopped responding and I'm too lazy to repeat the stuff (I really should be writing my phd thesis now, not messing around). Anyway here's what I got without any proof:
- if you box-select a group of units they will be arranged in the UI approximately as they stand on the map, that is left to right;
- what follows is that the 'main' guy is almost always the westernmost one;
- however if the second westernmost unit selected is close on the X axis to the first one, prepare for unforeseen consequences. If the selection box 'cuts' the first units roughly in half, then bw acts as if you selected it mistakenly and it will be placed second in the control group. If the first unit is well inside the selection box - everything works as expected; if the first unit is barely 'cut' - everything works as expected. Yeah, go figure. I think at this point it's far easier to just check the game's code.
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I forgot the intuitive illustration for the case of centering a dispersed group -_-
The setup was:
- 1 zergling in the top left corner of Python;
+ Show Spoiler +
- 11 lurkers all burrowed in the same spot of the bottom right corner of Python.
+ Show Spoiler +
We select zergling together with 1, 2, 3, etc. lurkers, bind it on ctrl+1, double click 1, mark the center of the screen on the minimap by placing there another zergling. What we get:
+ Show Spoiler +
Note that the zerglings are situated at 1/2 of the distance between the corners, 1/3, 1/4, etc. That's because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever#Force_and_levers
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Very helpful, thanks. I had no idea that you can select a unit or group, press shift 1, and it will add them to the group you had on one. I just did it the other way around every time (started out with the group on one, added the new additions, pressed ctrl 1). This is much faster.
I also have a suggestion, for a continuation of the series: it would really help to have an authoritative source on exactly how pro gamers get specific tasks done. In other words, it would be nice to have some videos on race and situation specific mechanics, rather than just a general description of mechanics.
Just because someone watches these videos you've made, with all the necessary techniques presented on a map with random units hanging out doing nothing, that doesn't mean that person will now know exactly how to use them in game. On the other hand, if you were to make a video about a specific race, in a specific game situation, and describe the technique being used in that exact situation, now that viewer will have a starting point to start practicing the technique: an in game situation in which he needs to start using it right away.
It's no longer a vague notion that I should start using that technique, it's an exact job I have: from now on, do this specific task this way. And, after I start doing that, it's also easier to start recognizing other situations in which the same technique is the right tool.
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On April 20 2014 18:14 stansfield123 wrote:
Very helpful, thanks. I had no idea that you can select a unit or group, press shift 1, and it will add them to the group you had on one. I just did it the other way around every time (started out with the group on one, added the new additions, pressed ctrl 1). This is much faster.
I also have a suggestion, for a continuation of the series: it would really help to have an authoritative source on exactly how pro gamers get specific tasks done. In other words, it would be nice to have some videos on race and situation specific mechanics, rather than just a general description of mechanics.
Just because someone watches these videos you've made, with all the necessary techniques presented on a map with random units hanging out doing nothing, that doesn't mean that person will now know exactly how to use them in game. On the other hand, if you were to make a video about a specific race, in a specific game situation, and describe the technique being used in that exact situation, now that viewer will have a starting point to start practicing the technique: an in game situation in which he needs to start using it right away.
It's no longer a vague notion that I should start using that technique, it's an exact job I have: from now on, do this specific task this way. And, after I start doing that, it's also easier to start recognizing other situations in which the same technique is the right tool.
Hey, thanks for the comment! I wasn't sure if anyone was still interested in this but as you are, I'll see if I can continue this more. I planned on doing some race-specific videos, with a couple of guests doing the Terran and Protoss videos, so I'll try move that along.
When you say specific tasks, what exactly do you mean? Would it be something like using shift-queue movement when using nydus canals, or unit separation at rally points, multitasking while muta microing?
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On April 20 2014 21:13 Birdie wrote:
Hey, thanks for the comment! I wasn't sure if anyone was still interested in this but as you are, I'll see if I can continue this more. I planned on doing some race-specific videos, with a couple of guests doing the Terran and Protoss videos, so I'll try move that along.
When you say specific tasks, what exactly do you mean? Would it be something like using shift-queue movement when using nydus canals, or unit separation at rally points, multitasking while muta microing?
I'm just a C level player, and my mechanics are the worst. I'm not really sure which mechanics are the most important, but I would love to watch a video on any of the items on that list. I would bet anything that I'm not doing any of them the right way.
So I definitely wasn't trying to tell you exactly which tasks to cover, because I don't know what the most important application, for each of the techniques you presented, is (except for the most obvious ones). But covering one in game task per technique would be plenty.
There's no point in doing two or more in-game situations for the same technique: once we practice the technique in one situation, I'm sure we can adapt it to others on our own. At most, you should mention what other places it is useful in, at the end of the video.
P.S.[I'm gonna nerd out a little here] It's basically the same principle as teaching anything else (a grammar pattern in a foreign language, or a programming pattern, for instance: they are taught by having the students focus on one specific context in which they would be used, and then the student can more easily figure out the subtleties of using it in different situations, on his own). At least that's how they are taught in good books, and by good teachers. I think this is very similar to those examples, because it's a heuristic that one has to learn to apply in various, vaguely defined situations. I'm sure that's how the Korean pros were taught, when they first came into the team house: they were given one specific task to practice, at first. Before having practiced it in a specific situatoin, it's very difficult to think about a technique in an abstract way (and figure out where it should be used). Not impossible, but difficult, and probably not something casual gamers are willing to go through. [/end of nerding out]
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Canada11379 Posts
I can definitely see how that shift + # would be faster. I've tried it a few times, but it's awkward because I'm used to a different pattern to add units to my hotkeys. It's basically backwards- rather than selecting control group first and then new units, you select new first and add. Hard to flip the process in my mind on the fly. But once you got it, it's only 2 key strokes and very close to the same key stroke as ctrl + #
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