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redbrain
Northern Ireland117 Posts
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=49805 I dont know how i could have won it seems hopeless i make more units but i am maxed but he has arbiters HT and carriars nothing i can do what are you actually meant to do it feels i cant move on the map at all because he will counter attack or do something wierd i dunno if i get even slightly caight un sieged its GG or i dunno i cant see what your meant to do other than leap frog faster | ||
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lizzard_warish
589 Posts
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CakeOrI)eath
United States327 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11575 Posts
Also, once you see arbiter, instantly send SCV to ur push to make turrets, and also make turrets in your main so he can't do a counter-recall. You need to use your vultures to stop any more expansions from him by laying mines at potential expansions, and to get a clear map coverage so you know where his army is at all times. You need to scan his gateway count, and potential stargate locations (also see if his cybernetics core is spinning = carrier) Your third was really late if you went for a big push as opposed to the 3fac timing that you had that would have won you the game. Your SCV scouting needs work, it was idle at 11:00 and 1:00 for about a minute and a half each. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10101 Posts
A standard metagame TvP push includes of a good number of SCVs (dependent on timing), mines blocking any attempts of flanks or counters, and good positioned tanks. There are 2 types of pushes. Slow push: Slow pushes usually take a long time, but ensures you dont get f-ed right off the bat. You leap-frog tanks and turrets to whatever position you are going to, all while rallying vultures and more tanks down. mines should be laid away from your tanks, but close enough that goons can snipe them without getting hurt. Remember to continuously make turrets and supply depots to help your slow push. Straight-up kill your opponent push: This push basically calls for a 1a2a3a into the Protoss's whatever, natural, third, etc. You continuously lay mines around your push to prevent large flanks, and around your bases, so you can't get countered (mines around your bases should be placed before the push occurs). Once you begin pushing, continue to lay mines in front of your push with the speed vultures. Should you move over such a mine field, and protoss attacks, move back so mine damage doesnt kill you outright and siege. You should siege only when the protoss looks to be attacking you. If he's not, don't siege for no reason because that will slow your push and allow toss to get more units. | ||
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frogmelter
United States971 Posts
When does Terran know it's the right time to push? [More relevant during earlier pushes]. How do we keep track on where his army is? I don't feel confident pushing without knowing where his army is since if he shows up really close I'm fucked. I also don't know when to push since I don't know how big his army is and his unit composition. When is it appropriate to slow push vs fast push? Also, what is the ideal way to micro when you're being attacked? Besides seiging up and keeping the vultures in front [and perhaps EMP if it's late enough], is there any other tactics that a Terran should employ? Thanks in advance. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10101 Posts
On December 12 2011 00:10 frogmelter wrote: I was actually wondering the same thing earlier. When does Terran know it's the right time to push? [More relevant during earlier pushes]. How do we keep track on where his army is? I don't feel confident pushing without knowing where his army is since if he shows up really close I'm fucked. I also don't know when to push since I don't know how big his army is and his unit composition. When is it appropriate to slow push vs fast push? Also, what is the ideal way to micro when you're being attacked? Besides seiging up and keeping the vultures in front [and perhaps EMP if it's late enough], is there any other tactics that a Terran should employ? Thanks in advance. ok, well i just played a decent TvP yesterday in FS. I saw my opponent take a 4th at a natural, so I let that go up for about a minute, attack it with 2 control groups of vultures but not before mining the path between his 4th and his natural (10 and 7 respectively). Knowing him, he's forced to do an all-in counter because I was on 4 bases at that time and he was now only on 3 with his main dry, and his nat almost dry. Here, I am dictating the pace of the game, and forcing him later on to do a recall (which i didn't expect but w.e.) Once his counter failed, I was free to expand to a 5th and continue to deny his 4th base. After he had no units, I can now do the fast push. Now for the slow push. Slow pushes are much better on maps where you and your opponent are close (python close by ground spawns or even close by air spawns) if you can take bases behind his push (lets say python close by air, take the mineral only) then slow push so you can continue to push down but not so quickly that he can easily counter attack you. In short, slow pushes are good if you know he's in the middle of the map either ready to do an all-in counter, or pincer you. If his army is in the middle, fast pushes get crushed because you don't have enough time to plant mines ahead of the push. Fast pushes are good if hes still in his base, or somewhere where your push is going. in which case, have vultures ahead of your army and when he attacks, siege and plant mines because dragoon ai will target the mines first. there's not too much micro when you push, just remember to scan if no vessels and he has arbs. maybe moving vultures to more key locations in a fight is good. While a fight is going on, if you feel like you are ahead and can use units elsewhere, use a round of vultures to harass a base of his. his attention might go to that area in which case you can push forward without him noticing. | ||
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ninini
Sweden1204 Posts
I've seen Flash move out on 2 factories on 2 bases and win. Obviously he didn't plan this attack, it was merely a reaction to his protoss opponent expanding like a fool. In the foreigner scene protoss's who expand recklessly are very common, especially lower down in the ranks, because they abuse the fact that it's awkward to be aggressive in TvP. Don't allow them to do that. There's no reason why Terran should be overrun by Protoss. If you get overrun, it's usually because you moved out too late. | ||
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Nazza
Australia1654 Posts
On December 12 2011 03:36 ninini wrote: My tip for TvP is to not fall into the trap of playing standard. There's so many corners you can cut as Protoss in this matchup, so Terran needs to understand how and when to be aggressive. Scouting is so important in TvP. I've seen Flash move out on 2 factories on 2 bases and win. Obviously he didn't plan this attack, it was merely a reaction to his protoss opponent expanding like a fool. In the foreigner scene protoss's who expand recklessly are very common, especially lower down in the ranks, because they abuse the fact that it's awkward to be aggressive in TvP. Don't allow them to do that. There's no reason why Terran should be overrun by Protoss. If you get overrun, it's usually because you moved out too late. I think those kinds of things are more reactions to P losing a couple too many goons early game due to botched aggression, but I don't consider early timing pushes to be cheesy (or not standard) when P expands quickly. Scouting is a lot harder in TvP, but it's necessary that you take note of P's natural and third timings, otherwise you'll hit a point where P is maxed and you are still at 150 supply. It's hard though, coz you can really screw up your micro, and can't tell whether or not the timing was good or not. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
On December 12 2011 00:10 frogmelter wrote: I was actually wondering the same thing earlier. When does Terran know it's the right time to push? [More relevant during earlier pushes]. How do we keep track on where his army is? I don't feel confident pushing without knowing where his army is since if he shows up really close I'm fucked. I also don't know when to push since I don't know how big his army is and his unit composition. When is it appropriate to slow push vs fast push? Also, what is the ideal way to micro when you're being attacked? Besides seiging up and keeping the vultures in front [and perhaps EMP if it's late enough], is there any other tactics that a Terran should employ? Thanks in advance. slow pushing is most appropriate during contain. because the situation of a contain can be quite dangerous if he breaks out, you will need extra care to push out slowly and to be applying pressure. just being outside does not create that much threat. you must always be sure to move in a position that you are always attacking him with siege. that will create urgency and to push him further in to reduce his position advantage. fast pushing, which i assume the mid-late game push is after you maxed your army with upgrades 2-1. the idea is to force him to engage with you. if you defeat his army, then you are permitted to split your army and attack multiple places since he is also forced to be all over the place. the ideal way to micro is to always spread the tanks. it is very easy and tempting to spam siege on all the tanks in a clump but you will be surprised at how much more efficient your army will be if you can spread your tanks out well. firstly, the front few tanks will force all the zealots together. even if he moves his zealots further in, you are creating more time and space for you to kill off those zealots, which will most likely make him retreat after he loses them and put you ahead. spreading out also reduces the effects of stasis and gives you more time to emp the other approaching arbiters. after you setup your tanks and move your vultures in, move right to your factories and make stuff. here's where you will want to exploit your economic strength to be constantly reinforcing your army. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1803 Posts
On December 12 2011 03:36 ninini wrote: My tip for TvP is to not fall into the trap of playing standard. There's so many corners you can cut as Protoss in this matchup, so Terran needs to understand how and when to be aggressive. Scouting is so important in TvP. I've seen Flash move out on 2 factories on 2 bases and win. Obviously he didn't plan this attack, it was merely a reaction to his protoss opponent expanding like a fool. In the foreigner scene protoss's who expand recklessly are very common, especially lower down in the ranks, because they abuse the fact that it's awkward to be aggressive in TvP. Don't allow them to do that. There's no reason why Terran should be overrun by Protoss. If you get overrun, it's usually because you moved out too late. well yes. that was to exploit timings and perhaps old games where opponents were not yet familiar on how to counter the eco and timing advantage of 1 rax fe. now with the fast 3rd and robo, moving out on 2 factories is no longer a good way to go because of how easily you can die to harassment. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
Terran needs to have a slight advantage vs toss in terms of force coz toss has spell casters to destroy terran | ||
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Toasterbaked
United States160 Posts
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toofast
United States7 Posts
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rgTheSchworz
Romania425 Posts
Though if the protoss dragoon contains, can you get out of your nat choke with 6 fact without sieging?Maybe i don't lay mines the way i should( i put them in the front so goons cant get my tanks ) but even when i have 10 food army advantage i lose a lot when getting out of my natural choke(Let's say on FS) | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
On December 12 2011 00:10 frogmelter wrote: I was actually wondering the same thing earlier. When does Terran know it's the right time to push? [More relevant during earlier pushes]. How do we keep track on where his army is? I don't feel confident pushing without knowing where his army is since if he shows up really close I'm fucked. I also don't know when to push since I don't know how big his army is and his unit composition. When is it appropriate to slow push vs fast push? Also, what is the ideal way to micro when you're being attacked? Besides seiging up and keeping the vultures in front [and perhaps EMP if it's late enough], is there any other tactics that a Terran should employ? Thanks in advance. it depends actually and im not sure how effective mine is but i usually push when i get 5 facts consistently pumping units then rally them to my push. or when my +1 attack finishes or when i want to get my 3rd or when the toss gets his 3rd or when i scout him getting carriers, those are my relevant timings haha tip in pushing: always push near edges so that you cant get flank and its easier to mine your flanks, then you can easily scan at your vulnerable flanks to know where they would attack you | ||
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eeniebear
United States197 Posts
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
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Nakata
Bulgaria67 Posts
And one thing to note - don't you ever supply block when you do a timing push in TvP because it will most likely fail. | ||
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