So I've been practicing builds offline in singleplayer to make sure I have a solid grasp of the builds I'm going to use (ala the advice from Ver's guide). One problem I'm running into is unit control.
I've been playing as both T and Z seeing which I like more, and for both bio T and all Z compositions, I have a super tough time controlling my army. Not in any micro intensive sort of way, just being able to control all my units. Coming from star2 where you can have infinite units on a hotkey, and unit AI is much more refined, it's very difficult to do anything with my army in BW.
For instance, let's say I'm playing a standard TvZ on destination. I can focus really hard and have decent macro out of my 6 or so rax. When I know I need to be attacking though, I try to ship my army out, and I can only grab small chunks, I grab marines and medics in the same group so I can't stim my marines, and all my units are tripping over themselves to squeeze through the bridges. It seems like it takes 5 minutes just to ship a decent sized army to where they're going, and with so many units, I can't have them all hotkeyed because I need hotkeys for my CC's facts, and stars (I have my barracks under an F hotkey).
The problem seems even worse for Zergs as you have so many units, and certain units will need their own Hotkeys (defilers, lurkers) that may not even be full, though I suppose this is true with a Bio T as well, with tanks and vessels.
I know that the unit control/unit AI is part of what makes BW so challenging and fun, but I just can't seem to get anywhere with my army movement. I haven't really found any vod's that go over it yet. So I'm hoping for some help with some suggestions on how to hotkey effectively, especially when you have a lot of units.
I hope this isn't to vague. If needed I can try to upload a replay , but I don't know how much that would show you given the UI of BW. Thanks ^^ Peace.
It's more like practice, you know? If you don't like controlling large armies, protoss should be easier for you , but it takes practice, just move them all and I don't really think there is any huge trick to it unless a veteran can prove me wrong.
Try looking for FPVODs on YouTube. You'll see how other players deal with that. I honestly can't tell you how I'm doing it since it's become second nature for me, and for all other seasoned BW players. Really, FPVODs are your best bet.
Also try fit all your production structures on one screen as Terran (it's more tricky in case of Zerg since you have your Hatcheries scattered around the map). That way you only need to have one of the buildings (the central one) hotkeyed. Use F keys for CCs. You'll leave more room for unit hotkeys.
Its tough at first but after very quickly it will just become second nature for you. Just try to hotkey as much as you can but don't spend too much time hotkeying stuff. Play alot, thats the best way. You be surprised how easily it comes within a couple games.
Completely useless advice. No its not impossible to play bio on destination.
A lot of unit control depends on the matchup and race. For example, Mech TvZ is a lot less unit control dependent compared to something like Bio TvZ or ZvT vs Bio. Lets address Bio TvZ first.
6 Rax 1 Star is a followup from the traditional 3 tank vessel push, so I assume your capable with managing one large army (3 groups of marine, 1 group medic, 1 group tank + vessel. ) So your problem is more the followup where TvZ Bio relies a lot on multitasking and constant aggression. From the way you address your issue, it sounds more like your focusing on one solid push after another in TvZ versus a more map control oriented style. Ideally, you should be focusing on using smaller groups of units in multiple areas after doing your timing push or utilizing drop harass because it doesn't matter if you have 30 groups of mnm or 1 versus darkswarm + lurker. Thus its more cost effective and optimal to use smaller groups to control the map. Getting to the point, your gonna want to use a lot of mouse control for TvZ once it reaches into the later game. Thats not to say you shouldn't neglect having a large hotkeyed army, but you should be just using the mouse for mnm you cant hotkey.
For example, a situation would go like this. Heartbreak Ridge is a really ideal example for something like this. You would have one larger army moving across one ridge denying the top left and mid left base while a smaller one ( that you just boxed from your rally point to the ridge) was guarding the other ridge for flanks, or poking at the bottom right base. When he comes over to the bottom position, you would just ctrl click or double click one marine and hit t, wait a few seconds for the swarm and then run back.
Same goes for zerg especially. Mouse control is so critical in zerg since you really need hotkeys for hatches.
Secondly, mechanics seem to be really hindering your unit control, especially hotkeys. You don't need multiple hotkeys for barracks. While its nice to have like 1 2 3 mnm, 4 5 6 7 rax in mid game, in the later stages of the game, you can get away with just one hotkey for all your production facilities. Its simply a matter of double clicking or alt + number to refer to all your production buildings which should be right next to eachother, including your starport and factory. So now your left with 1 2 3 4 5 (Mnm) 6 rax, 7 (whatever you want whether it be port, fact or later scan ) , 8 , 9 , 0 scan. Obviously, this is just an example, and theres another billion ways to alter your hotkey setup, but that seems like a huge hindrance in terms of unit control for you. On the same note, for zerg you actually do need your hotkeys for hatches. It was pretty common to just be 1 2 3 4 units ( 5-0 hatches). In which case, a lot of unit control comes in the form of mouse control.
Then finally, its just you getting used to hotkeying your army and moving out. It'll take some time building up multitasking in that sense.
Finally, watching vods and fpvods will greatly increase your understanding of the matchup. I'd suggest you take a look at TvZ from Day 9 when he still did them in BW) Secondly, take a look at fpvods. Ret vs mondragon is a good place to start. If time permits, I'll play a game and upload the fpvod sometime today.
Well, don't put marines and medic in the same group. Easiest way to deal with that is just use cntrl click, grab 12, hotkey; then click them slightly offscreen. Then cntrl+click another group, rinse and repeat.
As far as not having enough unit hot keys when I play T i just overwrite facts/ports/etc and use the F-Keys to re-center to rax/fact/star. Oftentimes with bio your constantly engaging so its fairly uncommon to get like a 100 marine army.
You don't need all your marines hotkeyed. have like 3 groups marine 1 med and vessels then just send the other mnm to your expos or at ramps to deny zerg expo etc..
I consider my TvZ below avg but here are a few reps that show what I'm talking about
One is vs springduet aka Manner]s.duet B/B+ and the other is some 300apm D+ zerg (lol)
I have my main group hotkey which runs around engaging zerg and picking expos, then I have groups of units which I just group box from my rally and send them to spots on the map, ie outside zergs nat to annoy him when he tries sending units out, near my expo etc.
On February 27 2011 07:15 Arisen wrote:It seems like it takes 5 minutes just to ship a decent sized army to where they're going, and with so many units, I can't have them all hotkeyed because I need hotkeys for my CC's facts, and stars (I have my barracks under an F hotkey).
You dont need to hotkey a single fact or a single starport because tanks/ vessels take long time to build, plus those buildings should be close to barracks, which you already have covered.
The problem seems even worse for Zergs as you have so many units, and certain units will need their own Hotkeys (defilers, lurkers) that may not even be full, though I suppose this is true with a Bio T as well, with tanks and vessels.
I might be on my own here, but I never actually considered using separate hotkeys for special units because a) if theyre hotkeyed with your army they can be moved around easier and theyre never left behind because you a-moved them and they dont recognize such command; b) it saves hotkeys you can use to macro easier - in mid game TvZ I have 5 barracks running all the time and I dont really need to go back to base apart from making a vessel every minute or so, which lets me keep an eye on my army for like 90% of time.
On February 27 2011 12:12 CaffeineFree-_- wrote: You don't need all your marines hotkeyed. have like 3 groups marine 1 med and vessels then just send the other mnm to your expos or at ramps to deny zerg expo etc..
I consider my TvZ below avg but here are a few reps that show what I'm talking about
One is vs springduet aka Manner]s.duet B/B+ and the other is some 300apm D+ zerg (lol)
I have my main group hotkey which runs around engaging zerg and picking expos, then I have groups of units which I just group box from my rally and send them to spots on the map, ie outside zergs nat to annoy him when he tries sending units out, near my expo etc.
This is typically how I play it too. I only actually try to hotkey all my units when you're moving in to break a push or something that requires good positioning and co-ordination.
You should be using hotkeys 1-5 for units as Terran while going bio. What I do is hotkeying marines to 1 & 2 while keeping medics on 3 , tanks on 4 and vessels on five alternative if you're going SK-terran you can use 1-3 for marines and 4 for medics and so on. 6 should be one barrack , that is your "macro" hotkey alternatively you can use the F2-F4 instead but I find it more convinient to use the F-keys for my expansions. 7 can be whatever you like , a Factory , starport or an engeneering bay to keep check of your upgrades. 8-0 should be scans. This is the theory , but o learn how to control all this efficiently you need practice , alot of it. Practice just moving them all around cycling 1-5 and right clicking until you can do that fluently then move on to 1a2a3a4a5a . It takes a while to get fast at controlling your army the way you wants it to but once you can you feel like a total badass and in total control :D
When your doing a 3 tank 1 vessel push its ok to group tank+vessel in 1 group because it's easier to attack burrowed lurkers like that but late game absolutely do not group any other unit into a vessel late game because they will stack making it a pain in the ass to separate them so you can irradiate or worse get them all plagued.
EPT
, but it takes practice, just move them all and I don't really think there is any huge trick to it unless a veteran can prove me wrong.
