EPTBOs: The Importance of Build Orders
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
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MPXMX
Canada4309 Posts
 The importance of build order depends on how much you can scout, however the higher the skill level is the further into the "psi" players are able to follow build orders. (and they do). I think players of the highest tier have build orders worked out until 10 minutes or so into the game, slightly situational of course. If your macro is excellent and you know exactly what you are aiming for every step of the way and how to adapt to what you find out about your opponent's intentions, just a build order is essential to the game in a competitive environments. Recall oov's comment about the restarted game (vs nada?) ; he said they knew each other's build orders but did them again anyway because they practiced them so much. But, for a simple player, it is too time consuming to learn a build order that well when he doesn't even have a firm grasp of game theory. The build order beyond the opening is just another of the things that separates average players from good ones | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
and yes in the same way toss can control the zerg's build order very strongly | ||
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
On October 29 2004 18:37 MPXMX wrote: I think this year's WCG has shown how important build orders are. I'm sure the vast majority of the top 32 practiced their builds for the specific maps countless times. It can be seen as their macro and timing were exceptional at all times, nothing like what they display in online tourneys. And it's obviously wrong to say that they never try their best online, WCG is simply something they specifically practiced a lot for, something they had hopes for The importance of build order depends on how much you can scout, however the higher the skill level is the further into the "psi" players are able to follow build orders. (and they do). I think players of the highest tier have build orders worked out until 10 minutes or so into the game, slightly situational of course. If your macro is excellent and you know exactly what you are aiming for every step of the way and how to adapt to what you find out about your opponent's intentions, just a build order is essential to the game in a competitive environments. Recall oov's comment about the restarted game (vs nada?) ; he said they knew each other's build orders but did them again anyway because they practiced them so much. But, for a simple player, it is too time consuming to learn a build order that well when he doesn't even have a firm grasp of game theory. The build order beyond the opening is just another of the things that separates average players from good ones Thanks for an excellent post. I wonder if you're right about them knowing the BOs that deep; personally, I think that sounds a little extreme. The game isn't old enough for that yet. | ||
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Nal_Testie
Canada1257 Posts
Everything matters. Everything. | ||
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AznSkillz88
52 Posts
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IA-Taiyoushin
United States33 Posts
On October 29 2004 21:04 Nal_Testie wrote: A bunch of little things amount to one big thing. Everything matters. Everything. so true. in ZvZ, most of the time the winner is the one who makes the least mistakes during the game. | ||
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AMD_STorM
China50 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On October 29 2004 21:04 Nal_Testie wrote: just because you think you're badass doesn't mean you gotta start getting all chuck norris on us. do you think it matters if i jammed d-d-d-d-d for my very first drone?A bunch of little things amount to one big thing. Everything matters. Everything. | ||
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NeverTheEndlessWiz
Singapore827 Posts
e.g TvZ 2 rax academy ->fact -> port -> ebay if lurker add fact addon, 4 tanks and 1 dropship if muta add sc fac, 2 vessels and irradiate its like you make the same buildings (base) but make diff units out of them (specific) | ||
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pheered.user
United States2603 Posts
On October 29 2004 22:40 RuGbUg wrote: just because you think you're badass doesn't mean you gotta start getting all chuck norris on us. do you think it matters if i jammed d-d-d-d-d for my very first drone? i was thinking the same thing but chuck norris kicks my idea in the ass :O | ||
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PtL)ZerG
64 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
And to answer your post. I've been playing this game a long time, and its prequel as well. I don't think memorizing build orders is worth anything in general play. You can pretty much feel when you should build stuff anyway. For example, if I see a VOD with a cool strat I can pretty much duplicate the strat later after trying it a game or 3. What is more important is a game plan. Knowing what you want to do, how you want to kill that pesky opponent, what grades to get for later use. | ||
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
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j-man
United States153 Posts
In that regard i think it is much more important to know the strategies and effects of different build orders than simply knowing what to build and when to build it. | ||
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zero89
United States295 Posts
can anyone explain me what is "opening"? | ||
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Yarertz
Djibouti1891 Posts
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
On October 30 2004 10:23 zero89 wrote: hmm im a newbie at sc can anyone explain me what is "opening"? In general, I define the opening as that phase of the game before both players have expansions. | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32278 Posts
example: You can make Barracks as a terran at 10 supply or go fast expo at 14 supply and a barrack later on. It depends in the choice your opponent had. And thats the main importance of scouting. | ||
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Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
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Unorthodox
63 Posts
Anyhow, nice post Shadow . | ||
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Splinter
United States188 Posts
Protoss and Terran build orders can go deeper because they can assure their safety longer by walling in or holding rines/zeals on the ramp. | ||
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zero89
United States295 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On October 30 2004 14:37 Splinter wrote: or, that it doesn't matter what happens because all zerg build orders branch off of a lair for the most part.Zerg build orders usually don't go much past what support your build your first hatch and pool at. After that what you do usually depends on what your opponent is doing. Protoss and Terran build orders can go deeper because they can assure their safety longer by walling in or holding rines/zeals on the ramp. | ||
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froZen_wYnd
Canada270 Posts
 lol if i were to write the whole thing, it'd be like pages and pages ;D gj | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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AMD_STorM
China50 Posts
and yes in the same way toss can control the zerg's build order very strongly | ||
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karelen
Sweden2407 Posts
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RuGbUg
United States2347 Posts
On October 30 2004 21:04 AMD_STorM wrote: i.. what?pvz is very dependent on your build order and how you play it. and yes in the same way toss can control the zerg's build order very strongly | ||
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suxN
Finland1167 Posts
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Splinter
United States188 Posts
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ShadowMaster
United States238 Posts
It is because of this "Zerg factor" that I was examining the Reaver + Corsair/Goon strategy, in which Protoss very aggressively tries to change the pace of the game and struggles to have the controlling hand. In many cases the very act of fighting for the control, which Zerg normally gets naturally against Protoss, will take the Zerg out of his game. But then, this is a different way of playing Protoss and may not be better or worse; only more novel and unexpected. | ||
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indecision
Germany818 Posts
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jotabeans
United States28 Posts
you have to have some sort of mold to follow, but you need to UNDERSTAND why the pros in the replays you are watching make minor tweaks to their build order in certain situations | ||
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LegendaryDreams
Canada1350 Posts
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homoerectus_
149 Posts
On October 30 2004 01:08 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: Impressive post Shadow. However, I think zerg/terran is a lot more controllable than classic play has led us to belive. Just take a look at all July vs oov games, esp the ones from the bo5 in last OSL. July refused to play defensively and oov suddenly realized his whole knowledge of tvz was reduced to nothing when facing a totally different opponent. This reminds me of Fischer v Spassky, Game 6, Reykjavik, 1972 World Championship Match. | ||
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