EPTThe End of an Era? - Page 6
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TurboDreams
United States427 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
An enjoyable game, but it was dragged out for about twenty minutes. It's just that breaking lurkers with swarm is pretty much impossible without ultras... or queens. | ||
swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On December 26 2010 02:07 flamewheel wrote: Honestly I don't see why Soulkey kept trying to be so aggressive with Guardians. In great's interview, the reporter told him that he thought guardians were a good idea and great responded with no. Watching the game definitely supports this theory, since this lategame style that great is employing is pretty all-around, and guardians cost so much more to build (and are tough to defend) than the scourge used to kill them. An enjoyable game, but it was dragged out for about twenty minutes. It's just that breaking lurkers with swarm is pretty much impossible without ultras... or queens. I thought the guards were good the first time he used hem (like he morphed 6 guards behind the natural), however after that initial harass the guard harassment was dumb I also liked later on when he kept like 2 guards with his army and sniped defilers with them | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On December 26 2010 03:07 Xiphos wrote: I think that its either Great, Soulkey or ZerO will invent the most optimal way of going straight to late game while defending against Mutas. I really want to see a spireless +1 Carapace Zergling while building up spores into Spire sniping so both players are forced to play ground based OR something like an Overlord drop into spire sniping build. probably not great, Great's late-game ZvZ is so far ahead of everyone else (though zero can give him a ruin for his money) it's not even funny but he never was all that good to get the game to hive (coincidentally all of his hive tech ZvZs happened against the Woongjin zergs who are the best at getting ZvZs to late-game) | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 26 2010 03:07 Xiphos wrote: I think that its either Great, Soulkey or ZerO will invent the most optimal way of going straight to late game while defending against Mutas. I really want to see a spireless +1 Carapace Zergling while building up spores into Spire sniping so both players are forced to play ground based OR something like an Overlord drop into spire sniping build. I suppose if you skipped spire, you could go lategame with spores, which probably cost about as much as mutas. Economically, you'd initially be at a disadvantage because your opponent can take a third, but you can catch up by saturating your natural with drones, which will come earlier than your opponent. You'd then probably have to wait for devourers for map control, and then you could take a third(or maybe double expo because they have to spore up) and proceed to macro. How to go about playing ZvZ in the lategame is what I want to find out though. Oh and you can always go for Zero's queens strategy for getting to hive. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
Queens I say! | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 26 2010 07:19 TheNessman wrote: I feel that Spawn broodlings is one of the most underused spells... Get 5 queens and suddenly you can take out a chunk of tanks with no cost, high templars good bye, Lurkers / ultras can't do anything. Queens I say! Queens are useful, but keep in mind you're pretty much paying the cost of a muta for something that'll only be useful in maybe 2 minutes. But yeah, free lurk/ultra kill is always good. It's probably the best way to deal with ultralisks, considering swarm>hydras and lings aren't gonna do that much against +4 ultras. | ||
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On December 26 2010 07:53 Lightwip wrote: Queens are useful, but keep in mind you're pretty much paying the cost of a muta for something that'll only be useful in maybe 2 minutes. But yeah, free lurk/ultra kill is always good. It's probably the best way to deal with ultralisks, considering swarm>hydras and lings aren't gonna do that much against +4 ultras. yeah but early on you're getting the queen for ensnare not broodlings so it's gonna start being useful really quickly | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On December 26 2010 10:01 swanized wrote: yeah but early on you're getting the queen for ensnare not broodlings so it's gonna start being useful really quickly True, but you need maybe 2 queens for ensnare, and you need maybe 6 to start sniping gas units. In fact, you might need a 'vessel cloud' of queens to efficiently do it. Then again, vessels also are a pretty big cost that doesn't start to pay off for a bit, aren't they? The big question is, how do you transition without screwing yourself over by creating a disadvantage? The answer is probably either queens or skipping mutas. | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On December 26 2010 10:10 Lightwip wrote: True, but you need maybe 2 queens for ensnare, and you need maybe 6 to start sniping gas units. In fact, you might need a 'vessel cloud' of queens to efficiently do it. Then again, vessels also are a pretty big cost that doesn't start to pay off for a bit, aren't they? The big question is, how do you transition without screwing yourself over by creating a disadvantage? The answer is probably either queens or skipping mutas. Lol are we talking about ZvZ here or..... | ||
Empyrean
17017 Posts
On December 25 2010 23:50 Hautamaki wrote: If hydras actually become standard in zvz I hope that Tsunami comes out of retirement to laugh at all the haters who told him zvz was muta ling only period! Haha, I thought it was he and redcloak who argued for hydra/queen back in like...1.07? XD | ||
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SwordM13X24
United States191 Posts
 ZerO vs great on Triathlon (game 2 PDPop MSL).Another good game to discuss about. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
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WuzzupPeeps
130 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
I'm quite eager to see great's builds for the MSL finals, hopefully he found new ways of forcing hive... | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On February 14 2011 21:58 swanized wrote: this thread never dies lol I'm quite eager to see great's builds for the MSL finals, hopefully he found new ways of forcing hive... The only way that will happen is if he has a Bo advantage and he balances out well his lings/spores and sunkens . Even then Hydra is pretty confidant in his Muta/scourge micro as shown against Jaedong and will not allow the game to go to Hive .... and even if he did great will put himself at a disadvantage allowing Hydra to expand all over the map and tech at will without investing money in static defences . Though opening with some 3 hatch build can set you pretty good macro wise for hive play . | ||
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pvzvt
Israel2097 Posts
zero won that game | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On February 15 2011 06:27 pvzvt wrote: the game between zero and great u got mixed with the names and the blue circles are zero's bases zero won that game The pics in the OP are not from their most recent encounter, they had a Hive tech game on Triathlon before. | ||
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