EPTexcuse me, I meant gundam
btw, I found this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Terran_Counter_to_14_Nexus
[Q] 12 nexus Terran response? - Page 4
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
excuse me, I meant gundam btw, I found this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Terran_Counter_to_14_Nexus | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9016 Posts
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On June 10 2010 04:04 CharlieMurphy wrote: excuse me, I meant gundam btw, I found this http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Terran_Counter_to_14_Nexus That guide isn't good. If you pull 10-12 scvs like it tells you to then the Protoss can just make as many probes as he can from his nat, evacuate the probes, and come out economically ahead even if his nexus dies. | ||
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airtown
United States410 Posts
On June 10 2010 04:54 ella_guru wrote: I've been doing M+M pushes after a 1 rax expand. As long as you go before obs at your base he won't know wtf to do. It works 40-60% of the time, everytime. Not good enough. Sorry. | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
- Scout with a second SCV to the other close distance, then Bunker Rush there if he goes 12 Nexus. This will work 66% if he goes 12 Nexus, if he is cross positions he gets his 33% good start. Puts you behind a bit on timings if he goes normal, but still better than always getting 12 Nexed. - Find a timing to send scouting SCV, then only scout the first natural. If you see no 12 Nex there send it immediately cross position to the other close position. Don't even scout the main of the first base you scout. Then check if he 12-Nexed at other cross positions. It will still be early enough for Bunker Rush if you get the timing right. If he didn't 12 Nex at any of those tweo bases, just use the SCV to scout regularly. | ||
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SoManyDeadLings
Canada255 Posts
You're suggesting getting a fast 3rd off 1-2 factories production against an already economically ahead toss? You'll die so hard to any P that goes 2gate -> robo -> 2-4 more gates with citadel. Watching tons of vods of progaming vods where the P when 12 nex, usually T can't do shit if the 12 nex is scouted late. You just have to accept your disadvantage and either scout earlier / hope for better luck next time. Simple as that. | ||
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Misillusion
46 Posts
I just have a question, how economically behind would you be if you went 1 fact FE, researching+building units after you lay down a CC? | ||
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
No, I'm sorry. Really. | ||
Ver
United States2186 Posts
Here's the only options that work (stay far away from anything else): 1) Bunker rush is the least situational option, but also the worst overall. If you forward rax them on a 2 player map you end up ahead because you only need to pull a couple of scvs. Otherwise you need to send 4-7 scvs to ensure victory if they fight with probes/zealot. Obviously if they fight you and they lose then you win the game, but their best option unless you really skimp on scvs is to simply make probes and keep mining until the last moment. If they do this they will end up ahead. The only reason why it works for Flash so well is because he skimps on scvs if he's close positions and he out-micros them very badly. That normally isn't feasible though so it's not a good idea to use as an example. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/12058_BeSt_vs_Notice/vod is a good example of how that works. 2) oov's build is quite good overall but you run the risk of the harass doing no damage if they stick on 2 base (arb or carrier). Great option if you have good attacking senses since the normal transition of an overly fast 3rd is toast vs oovs. 3) 1 fact double expand is the strongest/safest option but it is map dependent. Your 3rd doesn't have to be completely hidden away like Gods Garden or Andromeda but it needs to be not too far away, have safe transit from nat, and able to be walled. Pro games of it are pretty limited since it was pretty much unknown for years. Boxer/rA on Blitz, Light/Jangbi on Andro, and Mvp/Best+Stork on MP and FS are the only ones I'm aware of, though I'm not up to date so there might've been some games after the last two. In order to block 12 Nex -> 4 gate shuttle bulldog allin you need to get 2nd fact + addon asap and ebay before anything else while walling off. Some maps have anomalies though so you'll need to adapt it to individual maps. For example, on Fighting Spirit you can't do it if they are clockwise from you because they will arrive at your 3rd too fast. I've tested this dozens of times and it works out no matter what they do so long as the map is viable. You always end up way ahead and can gain a huge advantage or win the game with a mass fact 0/1 timing attack. 4) Rax expand. Not great and requires excellent defensive skills to be able to pull it off versus other openings but you won't be much behind either. And fyi if you just do a normal siege expand vs 12 Nexus you are significantly behind with every other transition. It's absolutely suicidal to do a 2 base timing attack, Flash build doesn't have a 2/1 window, you can't do a 2nd fact after cc timing attack, and Hiya build doesn't work. You can recover but all normal timings and options are gone, so good luck with that. | ||
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
Sea v Stork is in progress right now and Sea is doing the 1 fact double expand vs Stork's 12nex, check it out :D | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
On June 10 2010 14:00 huameng wrote: + Show Spoiler + Sea v Stork is in progress right now and Sea is doing the 1 fact double expand vs Stork's 12nex, check it out :D Yeah, the above game is now over and shows off a great response to 12Nex. It's one of the games from survivor today. | ||
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splcer
United States166 Posts
10 rax 10 gas 15 fact 16 suply 22 suply 28 suply 40 cc Pull two scvs off gas once you've reached 100. Never stop scv production in the beginning, if u have not enough minerals for both scv and marine, make scv unless you notice that the protoss is making an early zealot. Scout pretty late, usually as the barrack finnishes. When factory is finnished, pull back scvs to gas and take 2 off again once the first tank has started building. Then put back scvs on gas again when you have started making the cc. Make 8 marines total, 2 tanks, 2 vultures rallypointed. Research mines after you've started making your second tank, you should have 200 gas after the first tank is finnished. | ||
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Omgoodnessess
United States61 Posts
On June 13 2010 21:31 splcer wrote: 9 suply 10 rax 10 gas 15 fact 16 suply 22 suply 28 suply 40 cc Pull two scvs off gas once you've reached 100. Never stop scv production in the beginning, if u have not enough minerals for both scv and marine, make scv unless you notice that the protoss is making an early zealot. Scout pretty late, usually as the barrack finnishes. When factory is finnished, pull back scvs to gas and take 2 off again once the first tank has started building. Then put back scvs on gas again when you have started making the cc. Make 8 marines total, 2 tanks, 2 vultures rallypointed. Research mines after you've started making your second tank, you should have 200 gas after the first tank is finnished. That's Strong FD and its even weaker than 2 fac and weaker economically than fd or siege expand. Therefore, this build gets rolled. | ||
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odeSSa
Sweden198 Posts
Probably not viable at all at higher levels though :D | ||
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
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airtown
United States410 Posts
On June 14 2010 02:40 ella_guru wrote: I just 14 CC every game on FS, no matter who I'm against. It's so funny and fun. Zerg usually 12 hatches - you are safe enough. Protoss usually 12 nexes - you are ahead and they probably dont know how to react. If they 2 gate its not too hard to bunker repair. You only really get raped if they commit to zealots. Build more bunkers and survive the attack though, you win. Off topic, but how do you respond to a zergling all-in like effort did against flash? You can only make a wall with 3 buildings on half the positions on FS. | ||
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ella_guru
Canada1741 Posts
On June 14 2010 03:37 4iner wrote: Off topic, but how do you respond to a zergling all-in like effort did against flash? You can only make a wall with 3 buildings on half the positions on FS. You lose | ||
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