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I am a D rank Protoss, and I have bad base organization. It's gotten better, but I'm still very anal and scared about units spawning on the wrong side of my gateway and getting stuck in between two gateways and a pylon or something. As such, I have bases that look like this (Images and link to replay in spoiler)
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=31467Ignore the atrocious mechanics please, not only am I D rank, but I haven't played in awhile as I just got BW running in win7. I know the build was pretty trash altogether, and I am very uncomfortable with my PvZ (IE cannoning up against a non-existant muta threat, bad grasp on how to deal with lurker contain, 2 robo that don't get used, etc)
When I watch high-level games such as starleague matches, I notice that protoss players put gateways flush to each other. Sometimes when I try to do this, my dragoons or other units will get stuck in between the gateways, where the only way to get them out is via a shuttle. Does anyone have a concrete definition on how gateways spawn their units?
Also, any other tips on how to organize a base would be nice (how to place tech, etc) would be fantastic.
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First rule of awesome sim city is never create sealed gaps.
If a worker cannot walk to any part of your base you haven't built on, then you've done something wrong. Only exception is intentionally trapping workers for stack glitch, or for making your base difficult to drop/recall effectively.
So keeping in mind that touching at a corner is often tight enough to block units, never place a building down that completes a fence around some area.
For Protoss, you should be aware of the ~10 gateway around 1 pylon layout as a starter since it is the optimal placement for one pylon's psi radius, and then you can use only half or a quarter as necessary. It's pretty easy to place 3 adjacent gateways around a single pylon without creating any clutter.
Remember that units spawn at the bottom left of the building first, and then priority goes counter clockwise as adjacent squares are blocked. If you want gateways to produce units to the right, just arrange them vertically. If you want gateways to produce units to the left, make sure you have buildings adjacent to the right to force the top left to be the spawn point. Producing to the bottom is trivial, producing to the top would require excessive pylons on the bottom.
Here's a handy arrangement:
PGG
PGG
Leave a gap between rows. You can fit two gateways to the side of one pylon.
And consider this configuration:
GP
_GG
Note that by offsetting the bottom 2 gateways, you ensure that the top will spawn at the bottom left, instead of the top right (above the pylon) which would be very bad. By sealing all poor alternative spawn priority locations and yielding the location you want, you can control which side units will produce.
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You also typically want to start your base with one pylon close to your nexus (each nexus), another close to your ramp, and one in a "tech" or lookout position.
You never know when or where you might need to throw down a shield battery, extra cannons, or a secret tech switch.
Start the game with spread out pylons, giving you as many options as possible and to hide your intentions from your opponent. As the game solidifies, look for an optimal layout to conserve space.
Keep your gateways in the front of your base as much as possible to avoid units pathing through minerals, and make sure there is a clear traffic lane from your ramp to your mineral line in the event of harassment.
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I build my gates in clumps of 4 with 1 matrix in between each clump.
Like this:
GGP
GGP
GGP
GGP
...but I don't even play Protoss...
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Be aware that if you
PGG
PgG
PGG
The g gateway may not produce dragoons (it may depend on right or left layout) and will refund your money while progressing in the queue. Templar can fit vertically between gates.
This is a bad layout for archons versus mutalisks.
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<3 ya for giving me an insight for general building placement ause i always get like 4-5 scvs stuck when building depots
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About tech placement, don't feel like everything has to be crammed into the single plateau that is your main. There is certainly some real estate at your natural you could use.
Tech buildings near your mineral line/geyser can help block off harassment units or serve as AI meatshields.
Splitting up your tech buildings makes it more difficult for your opponent to accurately read your intentions or progress. For example if you're playing a Terran, don't place your arbiter tribunal next to your stargate and your templar archives. Certainly don't place your fleet beacon alongside the rest of your tech, because you will make it very easy for a single scan to discover your intention and progress.
If you need to make a pylon wall, why not time your citadel of adun or templar archives (or another useless piece of architecture) to be a part of this wall, instead of spending excess minerals on excess psi? This tech typically isn't very revealing of your strategy, and if the wall dies (1) you should already have researched everything subsequent already, and (2) you have larger concerns if you are losing bases.
In PvZ, if you FFE it can be very handy to place your core and stargate close to your natural in the event of a zergling all in, simply because you're keeping more of your buildings where you are most defended.
The fewer buildings you leave in your main, the less of a liability it is when you get dropped.
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Is there an effective way (obviously mid/late) that a protoss can build things to minimize the damage of a Doom Drop? I guess because most of the Zerg units that get dropped are small units there is reall no way right?
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On February 15 2010 16:12 streamofhonour wrote:
<3 ya for giving me an insight for general building placement ause i always get like 4-5 scvs stuck when building depots
Just watch for diagonal depots fencing off areas and leave some room around cliff edges.
If it's a TvP try to incorporate more of your depots at your natural, your 3rd, and as part of your slow push (units will AI glitch if they are a-moved, and increases the effectiveness of minefields). In general, just wall off anything that will have seige tanks nearby to defend it.
Watch Flash's games on HBR, walling off an entire fork to prevent flanks.
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On February 15 2010 16:30 Duckvillelol wrote:
Is there an effective way (obviously mid/late) that a protoss can build things to minimize the damage of a Doom Drop? I guess because most of the Zerg units that get dropped are small units there is reall no way right?
Aside from spotting it early (maybe with spotter pylon) and having a clear avenue for units to return home, there isn't much you can do against a large army. However, against
lings: they get almost anywhere, but cannons near workers is probably your safest bet. It is possible to fit cannons in a near-tight building trap, but you usually want your cannons in your mineral line to defend against mutalisks properly.
lurkers: make a line of pylons and tech that forces lurkers to approach through a corridor. This can buy you extra time if the lurker needs to travel around the wall before heading for your workers. If you have fast reaction time, you can pylon off the corridor to keep the lurker out of range until your obs are finished. It takes a significant amount of time to kill a pylon.
swarm: you're pretty screwed, but you can minimize the damage by having your tech buildings spread out. A single swarm shouldn't take out your robo + obs + archives. Having a clear alleyway for your units to arrive and fight without any delay or runaround is probably best.
ultralisks: think pylon mazes in cats n mouse. Think convoluted arrangements of statics in defense UMS games. The longer the path that ultralisk has to take before he can start pwning, the more time you'll have to get reinforcements on the scene.
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Another thing I don't think has been mentioned, a citadel of adun to the right of a column of gateways will trap dragoons.
GP
GP
GC
GP
Learnt this the hard way. 
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On February 15 2010 16:52 mmp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 16:30 Duckvillelol wrote:
Is there an effective way (obviously mid/late) that a protoss can build things to minimize the damage of a Doom Drop? I guess because most of the Zerg units that get dropped are small units there is reall no way right? swarm: you're pretty screwed, but you can minimize the damage by having your tech buildings spread out. A single swarm shouldn't take out your robo + obs + archives. Having a clear alleyway for your units to arrive and fight without any delay or runaround is probably best.
I need to work on this one a little, my tech buildings are almost always right next to eachother.
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On February 15 2010 16:59 Smace wrote:Another thing I don't think has been mentioned, a citadel of adun to the right of a column of gateways will trap dragoons. GP GP GC GP Learnt this the hard way.
Ya, I have made this mistake a few times.
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my apologies, play test confirmed i was mistaken
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I think I get it. Maybe someone could post screenshots of a decent example?
Also, Liquipedia doesn't seem to have any information on how to organize your base, maybe some stuff should be added for all of the races? :O
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On February 15 2010 17:05 Chameleon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 16:04 mmp wrote:
Be aware that if you
PGG
PgG
PGG
The g gateway may not produce dragoons (it may depend on right or left layout) and will refund your money while progressing in the queue. Templar can fit vertically between gates.
This is a bad layout for archons versus mutalisks. are you positive about this? i have been building my things like: PGG PGG PGG PGG with no problems at all It is important to note though that: GGP GGP GGP is not the same as PGG PGG PGG
I don't play toss, and I'm not sure whether it's right/left/both, but I've seen trapped dragoons get refunded. This was brought to my attention by a toss friend that pointed it out in another toss friend's base layout. Upon watching the replay it was confirmed.
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On February 15 2010 17:08 prodiG wrote:
I think I get it. Maybe someone could post screenshots of a decent example?
Also, Liquipedia doesn't seem to have any information on how to organize your base, maybe some stuff should be added for all of the races? :O
I'm gonna post an epic Terran sim city guide in the near future, maybe for my 500th post. 
Edit: And if I post any more times in this thread I'll reach 500 in no time!
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On February 15 2010 17:09 mmp wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 15 2010 17:05 Chameleon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2010 16:04 mmp wrote:
Be aware that if you
PGG
PgG
PGG
The g gateway may not produce dragoons (it may depend on right or left layout) and will refund your money while progressing in the queue. Templar can fit vertically between gates.
This is a bad layout for archons versus mutalisks. are you positive about this? i have been building my things like: PGG PGG PGG PGG with no problems at all It is important to note though that: GGP GGP GGP is not the same as PGG PGG PGG I don't play toss, and I'm not sure whether it's right/left/both, but I've seen trapped dragoons get refunded. This was brought to my attention by a toss friend that pointed it out in another toss friend's base layout. Upon watching the replay it was confirmed.
My apologies, I tested this out and you are correct. The reason my layout was working is that i didnt make my pylon wall quite tall enough to block the exit.
For the OP: You can easily test this stuff for yourself by making a single player game and using the fast build and give money cheats. Here is an example of how you can make your gateways on matchpoint (you can put your tech anywhere obvsly).
Note the tiny gap in the pylon wall. That gap is necessary in order to not block the exits of the gateways that are in the middle.
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Just ask CombatEX. And then do the opposite.
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Something important to remember is where you will maynard workers. Do not have gateways on top of each other in the path as probes can glitch on this. Leave a gap. You can stack them close everywhere else, just not in the path the probes take.
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On February 15 2010 20:44 Muff2n wrote:
Something important to remember is where you will maynard workers. Do not have gateways on top of each other in the path as probes can glitch on this. Leave a gap. You can stack them close everywhere else, just not in the path the probes take.
This is a good suggestion. Probes tend to go all crazy when you maynard them and they have to go through like 4 gateways.
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