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[H] Tireness from playing

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
September 09 2009 23:39 GMT
#1
Umm... I don't know if I should put this in the Strategy forum or the Broodwar one since this isn't really about 'strategy' but more of a personal experience. So anyways, I was just wondering if anyone of you higher rank players feel 'tireness' while playing SC. I can keep my APM above 200 for the first 10 minutes but when it reaches to a point when my fingers just get too tired to move and I had trouble keeping up and sometime even get dizzy. Did you guys ever felt that before? If so, how did you cope with it?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
September 09 2009 23:46 GMT
#2
Yeah I feel it whenever I try to force my apm above what I'm used to. When I had 120 apm or so, when i played with 150 I would get really tired. Now I can just play 3 hours straight with 190apm average.
lighter
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States152 Posts
September 09 2009 23:47 GMT
#3
haha, guess that means youre not ready for 200 apm
sounds like you are straining yourself, but having high apm is a gradual process, and you should slowly work it up. i only get dizzy if i play for several hours, and my palms start dripping like crazy
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
September 09 2009 23:48 GMT
#4
haha dizzy? :D

sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
DivinO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4796 Posts
September 10 2009 00:00 GMT
#5
On September 10 2009 08:48 YPang wrote:
haha dizzy? :D



I think it depends on the monitor.
LiquipediaBrain in my filth.
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
September 10 2009 00:30 GMT
#6
drink. water. sleep. more

your not over exerting yourself from moving your fingers too much
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
WhitE.ChapeL
Profile Joined September 2009
Korea (South)30 Posts
September 10 2009 00:32 GMT
#7
well
you should try starting low (around 110-120 apm) and slowly increase your apm so your fingers get warmed up and they get used to moving so fast
its kind of like lifting weights; you dont start benching like 240lbs right away, you start off low and gradually increase the weight.
as for the dizziness, if you have one of those old school monitors, try putting the cover thing that they have that helps reduce dizziness or you could try tylenol or something
"Life is like a box of chocolates. Just as the taste is different for each chocolate that we pick, the results can be different based on what we choose in our lives."
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6639 Posts
September 10 2009 00:46 GMT
#8
No doesn't really happen to me, I guess sheer adrenaline and determination keeps me going, nothing distracts me, World War 3 could be starting outside and I wouldn't look away from the screen till I had either won or lost the game.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
ImNotBisu
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada142 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 01:07:15
September 10 2009 01:05 GMT
#9
This is just my personal experience as a piano player, my should's and should not's:

You should try to:

-Warm up. Don't jump into a game with 500apm spam, play at a comfortable pace and your apm will go up as more actions are required.

-Be relaxed. I find listening to pumping music does make you play faster, but only very temporarily. If you want to play for an extended period of time, keep a good posture, be relaxed, and keep very hydrated. Sleeping more helps too.

You should not:

-Curve your wrist on the keyboard/mouse. This happens sometimes when you tense up, and you WILL get Carpal Tunnel eventually.

-Strike the keys with muscle power, for reasons such as a desire to increase raw apm. Instead, just like playing piano, you should hit the keys rapidly without a need to tense up your forearm or shoulders. It should be a finger response, nothing more.

Edit:

After I realized how I was tensing up straining to increase apm artificially, I started to play while in a relaxed manner and my apm jumped from 190 to 250, from C+ to B-.
Adeeler
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom764 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 01:43:52
September 10 2009 01:21 GMT
#10
There are a couple of 'tricks'/good practices you can use to improve your finger/hand stamina.

Finger Independence:


Super Hard if your go through this series: greg irwin finger fitness on youtube:

Elbow horizontalish with the keyboard, high seated position not slouching to much.
Don't rest your arm on the edge of your table or anything like that either. This improves blood flow to your hands and you should last longer.

If you want to do some special exercise you can do forearm curls with a dumbbell and use the strong grips(squeezy things for improving your grip/finger strength)

Learn to touch type properly. Some ppl learn to touch type simply by experience but you might be benefit from learning to touch type and improving your wpm(words per minute) same principal your apm should benefit or stamina at the least with your hot-key hand it should.

I play with an ergonomic split keyboard which made me naturally learn to touch type properly but I play to switch to a standard keyboard as reaching more buttons will be easiar then going over the hump in the middle of the keyboard.

Also take breaks at least once an hour to let the blood flow get going nicely again.

Food wise you can always go for foods that thin the blood thus helping flow; of the top of my head onions is the only thing I can think of that does this naturally. And of course plenty of water etc.

Make sure you get enough protein in your diet to. Its no good doing all this stuff expecting your apm and stamina to increase but if you don't have enough protein in your diet your body can't fix you up & improve your muscles when you sleep.

Sleep properly too not on any arm.

Keep your hands a bit warm before playing. Do some finger exercises to do this it can help. Search the net for proper ones as you don't want to damage your hands/fingers by guessing how to exercise them.

Oh yeh, play some music while you play. Something fast with quick beats you'll naturally speed up due to this. Its a bit artifical but keep doing it and you'll naturally stay at a higher level.
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
September 10 2009 01:37 GMT
#11
If you are getting dizzy then i think your refresh rate is either too high or too low on your monitor. Try turning it up to 100 or 75 for lcd.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
September 10 2009 01:54 GMT
#12
After a nice 30 minute game, it's really, really, tiring, even though I only have 130apm.
It's mostly because you're exerting alot of mental energy in all that decision making.
the throws never bothered me anyway
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
September 10 2009 02:54 GMT
#13
I want to feel the tiredness. my apm is only 90-110 so i dont feel much unlessi play a game for 20563682367222287297279272692856 minutes. Unless its nessessary, Spamming buttons isnt worth the pain.
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Husky
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3362 Posts
September 10 2009 02:59 GMT
#14
For me if a game goes on for 15+ minutes I start to sweat A LOT. I never really get tired though, my hands are so warmed up at that point I could keep going forever.

However, I've been using computers nonstop since I was like 8. I have pretty nimble fingers when it comes to the keyboard so that might play a role in it.

One thing I've noticed is that Starcarft is the ONLY game that makes me sweat. I can play CS, wc3, wow, TF2 or any other game I can think of and not sweat at all. SC is both a physical and mental workout just because of how in dept of a game it is.

Hopefully you can overcome it though, I can see why it would be frustrating!
Commentaries: youtube.com/HuskyStarcraft
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
September 10 2009 03:07 GMT
#15
Just play at your natural apm and try to move a little bit faster. Gradually it will improve. Don't try to think "Oh, I must get it above 200 apm at all times.." because you will just tire yourself out instead of learning the game.
Brood War loyalist
iLict
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bosnia-Herzegovina57 Posts
September 10 2009 03:40 GMT
#16
I find with new big slim monitors it takes me longer to select shit and it is just harder for gaming, and I get really "tired."
is a Clasic
KP_CollectoR
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States744 Posts
September 10 2009 03:50 GMT
#17
I don't ever feel like a tire when playing.
English Brood War Commentaries - Please Subscribe! youtube.com/dimecollectorsc... Winner of The "LeBron" Award for Best Rookie (FPL 5)
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
September 10 2009 03:53 GMT
#18
Korean-ness makes your fingers naturally stronger, and so does the fact that most koreans play instruments like Violin and Piano.
Dragonblood21
Profile Joined July 2009
United States139 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 03:58:50
September 10 2009 03:58 GMT
#19
I usually don't ever get tired, as far as my fingers go anyway, when playing SC. The only thing that really happens to me is sometimes I'll get very tense. The tenseness will effect my APM, and my precision in clicking and starts a "train wreck" where it just keeps getting worse once it starts. Once I feel myself feeling a little tense I normally take a breath and try to calm down. If something happens in the game where I loosen up, I'll notice a sudden burst in APM, precision, confidence, and even correct decision making.

I think my fingers are just used to being used at a high speed however, as I also play guitar and have been for about 2-3 years. A lot of the times I'll be practicing solos that require my hands to move at fast rates with a high amount of concentration, and Starcraft is not really different in that respect.
iLict
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bosnia-Herzegovina57 Posts
September 10 2009 04:00 GMT
#20
On September 10 2009 12:50 KP_CollectoR wrote:
I don't ever feel like a tire when playing.

?

That's funny cause I'm always rolling zergs
is a Clasic
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 04:50:12
September 10 2009 04:48 GMT
#21
On September 10 2009 13:00 iLict wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 12:50 KP_CollectoR wrote:
I don't ever feel like a tire when playing.

?

That's funny cause I'm always rolling zergs


wtf


anyway, i was playing 10-15 hours on saturday, sunday and monday (long weekend) and I felt fine. But tuesday my right hand (index finger mostly) was tingling all day, also hurts a bit today, so I'm taking a break for a couple days. I don't know how progamers play a dozen hours daily though, must have ergonomic mouses or something
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17018 Posts
September 10 2009 04:50 GMT
#22
I play all games at a relaxed 110 APM.

I never get tired and can play for hours
Moderator
JFKWT
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Singapore1442 Posts
September 10 2009 06:34 GMT
#23
On September 10 2009 12:50 KP_CollectoR wrote:
I don't ever feel like a tire when playing.

^ Making a jibe at the typo in the title =p
The calm before the storm / "loli is not a crime, but meganekko is the way to go!"
ForSC2
Profile Joined June 2009
United States580 Posts
September 10 2009 08:49 GMT
#24
My left hand falls asleep when I try to work harder/play faster in starcraft.
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2883#comic
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
September 10 2009 10:18 GMT
#25
On September 10 2009 17:49 ForSC2 wrote:
My left hand falls asleep when I try to work harder/play faster in starcraft.

My right arm always gets cold
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
Ketu
Profile Joined July 2009
United States57 Posts
September 10 2009 10:43 GMT
#26
yea after your army has canceled the other guys out after the fifth time, you already got your upgrades, 30 min long game, and you cant think anymore. yep i felt that lol all the time after my 20th game.
love to live, live to love
Re-Play-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Dominican Republic825 Posts
September 10 2009 10:44 GMT
#27
On September 10 2009 10:05 ImNotBisu wrote:
This is just my personal experience as a piano player, my should's and should not's:

You should try to:

-Warm up. Don't jump into a game with 500apm spam, play at a comfortable pace and your apm will go up as more actions are required.

-Be relaxed. I find listening to pumping music does make you play faster, but only very temporarily. If you want to play for an extended period of time, keep a good posture, be relaxed, and keep very hydrated. Sleeping more helps too.

You should not:

-Curve your wrist on the keyboard/mouse. This happens sometimes when you tense up, and you WILL get Carpal Tunnel eventually.

-Strike the keys with muscle power, for reasons such as a desire to increase raw apm. Instead, just like playing piano, you should hit the keys rapidly without a need to tense up your forearm or shoulders. It should be a finger response, nothing more.

Edit:

After I realized how I was tensing up straining to increase apm artificially, I started to play while in a relaxed manner and my apm jumped from 190 to 250, from C+ to B-.


i like your tips, but how to control breath? because sometimes i feel tired and i realized i wasnt breathing when i need much multitasking or micro i stop breathing dont know why
P1: Best rank? P2:1st time iccup, P1:really? P1 looks at the account of P2 WOW B+ last season ^^
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11768 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-10 16:55:58
September 10 2009 16:55 GMT
#28
On September 10 2009 19:44 LuisMl8 wrote:
i like your tips, but how to control breath? because sometimes i feel tired and i realized i wasnt breathing when i need much multitasking or micro i stop breathing dont know why


Man Dies of Asphyxiation Due to Computer Game.

Boy can you imagine the ravenous hordes of responsibility-shirking mothers?

On a slightly more helpful note, I think a good number of people hold their breath when they're concentrating very hard... you might want to step back a bit and relax
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Rjx5(LT)
Profile Joined April 2004
Canada27 Posts
September 10 2009 19:42 GMT
#29
you should check your diet, perhaps you need more proteins in it.
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
September 10 2009 19:51 GMT
#30
i get tired after every game averaging 130 apm. i take a 5 minute break and i play again. in the last 6 months of play ive done the same thing but have slowly gone from about 100 apm to 130 apm. i consider this a good path to growth ^^
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
September 10 2009 20:11 GMT
#31
I've never felt my fingers "tired" or something like that. :o
I'm surprised you're.

*** 200 APM here
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
September 10 2009 20:39 GMT
#32
On September 10 2009 12:58 Dragonblood21 wrote:


I think my fingers are just used to being used at a high speed however, as I also play guitar and have been for about 2-3 years. A lot of the times I'll be practicing solos that require my hands to move at fast rates with a high amount of concentration, and Starcraft is not really different in that respect.



Only a slightly transferable skill...
Each day gets better : )
Leg[end]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States241 Posts
September 11 2009 10:35 GMT
#33
Spamming a ridiculous amount won't help you get better, so don't do it. That is probably why your hands get tired.

There is nothing wrong with spamming in general (everyone all the way to the pros do it), but you can't make it something you really think about.
Legends Never Die ;;
Leg[end]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States241 Posts
September 11 2009 10:39 GMT
#34
On September 11 2009 05:39 ella_guru wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2009 12:58 Dragonblood21 wrote:


I think my fingers are just used to being used at a high speed however, as I also play guitar and have been for about 2-3 years. A lot of the times I'll be practicing solos that require my hands to move at fast rates with a high amount of concentration, and Starcraft is not really different in that respect.



Only a slightly transferable skill...


I disagree. Playing guitar will leave your fingers with better dexterity and you will be able to reach your fingers further across your keyboard. It certainly helped me.
Legends Never Die ;;
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
September 11 2009 14:23 GMT
#35
Personally if im playing TvZ for example(200+ APM) the only time i get "tired" is when ive already won and dont want to expend the effort of 12131231231231231231t2t3t4t5t6t etc,

this may be whats happening to you
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
September 11 2009 14:28 GMT
#36
^Yes it helps, but only slightly. I've been playing for 8 years, but can type no where near as fast as I can play. Running in the woods doesnt make you better at football type of thing. Is there running in football? Yes, but a very different kind and subset of skills (juking, more explosive out of the gate style running) I'm not trying to be overly contrarian here it's just, to get better at a thing, you practice the thing in question. Do musicians have a slight, slight advantage? Maybe, which quickly dissipates . I cant pass a medium song on guitar hero, and I can only imagine Jaedong isn't a violin virtuoso.


Each day gets better : )
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
September 11 2009 17:22 GMT
#37
The posts about your diet are 100% correct.
Less white flour, bad oils, and salt (NaCl)
Go with beans, whole grains, fruit, nuts as much as you can.
The potassium and especially eating sea-salt vs table salt will really help your muscles from cramping.

Also, as far as gaming, check out this idea. I play vs someone (who is willing) till about midgame, as much APM as you can. Then, take a 10 minute break. (you should be like 10-15 min into the game). Think about something totally different, maybe get some water. Come back, sit down, recally where you are and what you are doing, and youll find you play the endgame totally differently. At least for me, this REALLY helped my Hive tech when I played zergs. Something about the break, and comming back a new with all the Hive units really helped.

For anyone who has mental or physical fatigue in >15 min I suggest you find a practice partner and try this.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-11 17:40:47
September 11 2009 17:40 GMT
#38
lol 200 apm

I can play a 45 minute game with 250 apm without problems. I think this is something you just have to train to do, unless you're protoss

Also I average 287 apm in my replays folder and average game length is 17 minutes or so.
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
Foucault
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden2826 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-11 17:42:05
September 11 2009 17:41 GMT
#39
nm
I know that deep inside of you there's a humongous set of testicles just waiting to pop out. Let 'em pop bro. //////////////////// AKA JensOfSweden // Lee Yoon Yeol forever.
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5461 Posts
September 11 2009 18:06 GMT
#40
On September 10 2009 09:46 jello_biafra wrote:
No doesn't really happen to me, I guess sheer adrenaline and determination keeps me going, nothing distracts me, World War 3 could be starting outside and I wouldn't look away from the screen till I had either won or lost the game.
what if a starcraft battle was happening outside in real life (something epic like casy marines vs lurkers) and would likely end by the time you won or lost the game. would you be distracted?
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
MaTaAeRuKaNa
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States95 Posts
September 16 2009 03:02 GMT
#41
Well I don't get tired playing at 200+ apm for hours, but I do get bored of SC. It gets really repetitive.
Luddite wrote: Tentacle monster: Basically a sunken colony with legs, and multiple tentacles to attack with. It gets bonus damage vs. large units and Japanese school girls.
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-09-16 03:48:29
September 16 2009 03:47 GMT
#42
Sorry don't mean to troll but when I see threads on the topic of "high apm" I can't help but think how noobish you guys are

Your strategy comes first, your fingers come second. Don't be a n00b and think apm is all that
Nony is Bonjwa
hahaimhenry
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada368 Posts
September 16 2009 04:01 GMT
#43
There's no point in forcing APM, it comes with how good you actually are. Obviously when you become a better player your APM naturally increases. It's like using unnecessary big words that you don't understand the meaning of when you write something; you tire yourself out by searching for big and fancy words when smaller easier words are more effective and natural (more heart).

My apologies if my analogy wasn't good enough but I hope the point gets out there... although I'm pretty sure many people have already said something similar.
:]
Metaspace
Profile Joined November 2006
Austria670 Posts
September 17 2009 07:48 GMT
#44
For me, playing at >100 APM would tire my fingers for the first few weeks, then I got used to it.
I assume it is simply a training thing.
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