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S-class is a subjective notion. I'd say that it roughly corresponds to being a clear favorite to beat any top 30 player (except other S-class players, where odds are fairly even). The purpose of the following post is to attempt an arbitrary objective definition, purely in the interest of science, to see how this arbitrary definition corresponds to subjective perception. Please take it for what it is; if you will, call it an indicator of S-classness rather than a definition. Yes, I know that this kind of definery is futile, so forgive me for being bored.
The arbitrarily chosen definition: a player is S-class in a given matchup if he has a win ratio of 60% or more. A player is S-class, on the whole, if he is S-class in at least two matchups. (Alternatively, according to taste, one can require S-classness in all three matchups.)
This definition captures the idea that S-class is not just good, but dominant (60% being an exceptional record). Further, requiring this figure in at least two matchups ensures that the player has breadth too.
This definition ignores room for a reasonable fuzz factor -- say, a player being 58% in three matchups (although it can be argued that such a player doesn't quite have the edge to be considered S-class). Also, realistically, recent results should weigh more heavily than old ones, and a reasonably large sample of games is required.
Issues aside, how does the definition check out with some top ranked players?
S-class:
Bisu (3/3 matchups)
Effort (3/3)
Flash (3/3)
Jaedong (3/3)
Fantasy (2/3)
Leta (2/3)
Skyhigh (2/3)
Barely fitting the S-class definition (59% in one matchup):
Stork
Best
Sea
S-class in one matchup:
Yellow[arnc]
Kal
JangBi
Kwanro (but exactly 60% and very few games)
Hwasin
July
Firebathero
Not S-class in any matchup:
Free (but ~58% in two matchups)
Calm (~55% in all matchups)
Iris (~55% in all matchups)
Canata
Light (~59 in one matchup)
Zero
Upmagic
I think this turned out to agree fairly well with whom I would, subjectively speaking, consider S-class and not.
Now I'll wait for the onslaught of criticism 
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this would make much more sense if you only counted maybe a year's worth of games
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Interesting! Now please add an indicator for A-class for the sake of completeness 
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On August 16 2009 21:46 iamho wrote:
this would make much more sense if you only counted maybe a year's worth of games
Yeah, as already noted, you have to pick a reasonable timeframe. Sea, for example, is not a 60% player over the last year (and also probably the most questionable player on that list).
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On August 16 2009 21:35 okum wrote:
Also, realistically, recent results should weigh more heavily than old ones, and a reasonably large sample of games is required.
why not just use ELO then?
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United States2186 Posts
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Basically it's pretty obvious when someone is S class overall (the top 5) or has an S class matchup (Yarnc/July). Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are.
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On August 16 2009 21:55 iamho wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:35 okum wrote:
Also, realistically, recent results should weigh more heavily than old ones, and a reasonably large sample of games is required.
why not just use ELO then?
Yes, why not? What threshold would you choose? Let's compare.
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On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything. Ahahha, yeah right. Let isn't S class in TvT and TvZ, right.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
This is only wishful thinking from SKT fanboys.
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maybe 2250+ elo for s class, 2200+ elo for s-class in individual matchups? there was actually a thread on this a while ago, i cant find it though
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On August 16 2009 22:02 iamho wrote:
maybe 2250+ elo for s class, 2200+ elo for s-class in individual matchups? there was actually a thread on this a while ago, i cant find it though
I was thinking so, but I couldn't find it either. Props if someone digs it up.
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On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Leta is S class >.> he has great tvt and tvz, he's like, one of top 10 in kespa rankings
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10387 Posts
On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Basically it's pretty obvious when someone is S class overall (the top 5) or has an S class matchup (Yarnc/July). Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are.
Fantasy is not S-class TvZ lol..
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I think I typed up a more valid list based off of elo criteria a while back, I posted it in some random threads but never really worked on it.
Basically, 2200+ for a specific matchup puts that player in the top 5 or 6 in that matchup of all time, except for TvZ (Which had 9). Players who are at something like 2190+ and peaking I would probably toss in as well, at least for consideration. I was going to go through and add all-time, but I'll probably add that on after writing this post.
So currently :
vP :
Bisu (2243)
July (2227)
Flash (2213)
Jaedong (2210)
Closest P/T/Z
Kal/Fantasy/Effort (2134/2189/2151)
vZ
Jaedong 2234
Flash 2221
Closest P/T/Z
Bisu/Iris/Effort (2189/2188/2149)
vT
Flash 2246
Yarnc 2230
Closest P/T/Z
Bisu/JD/Skyhigh (2194/2188/2162)
While this list is debatable about if it is inclusive enough or not, it's not very debatable that everyone on it is certainly S-Class. What I mean is that it cuts off some very close players like Bisu/Fantasy, but at the same time, Bisu and Fantasy have shown weaknesses in those matchups recently. I'll edit in all time after posting this. Also, the only player s-class in every matchup still is Flash, and it's more impressive to beat Flash/Bisu than JD in a mirror matchup.
Edit:
Protoss
PvZ
+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu 2229
Nal_ra 2218
Free 2192 (Closest)
PvP
+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu 2255
Best 2246
Reach 2193 (Closest)
Stork 2185 (4th)
PvT
+ Show Spoiler +
Jangbi 2258
Stork 2252
Bisu 2222
Nal_ra 2205
Reach 2189
Best 2188
Terran
TvZ - this is long
+ Show Spoiler +
IIloveoov 2304
Nada 2264
Sea 2235
Xellos 2230
Midas 2227
Flash 2223
Boxer 2220
Forgg 2203
Hwasin 2201
Iris 2188
TvT
+ Show Spoiler +
Flash 2246
Nada 2212
Sea 2205
Xellos 2203
Iris 2199
Goodfriend 2194
TvP
+ Show Spoiler +
Iloveeov 2236
Midas 2222
Nada 2215
Fantasy 2199
Sea 2196
Zerg
ZvZ
+ Show Spoiler +
Jaedong 2234
Luxury 2212
Savior 2208
Chojja 2205
Yellow 2203
Hotforever 2187
ZvT
+ Show Spoiler +
Yarnc 2240
Jaedong 2235
Yellow 2230
Savior 2216
Gorush 2216
July 2209
Junwi 2182
ZvP
+ Show Spoiler +
Savior 2272
Jaedong 2237
July 2227
Chojja 2187
Yellow 2182
What's notable about this list is that it makes certain players from past eras much more impressive, even knowing nothing about them - Yellow is still one of the top 3 ZvT's and 5th ZvZer of all time, and Nada is still the third best TvT and second TvP. Also, Nal_ra is the only protoss before the dragon era to be 2200+ in any protoss matchup, and reach the only one 2190+
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If fantasy is s-class in anything it would be TvP, theres noway his TvZ is s-class.
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United States12607 Posts
On August 16 2009 22:12 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2009 21:59 Ver wrote:
You can't do this by stats though. i,e
Leta is not S class in anything.
Fantasy is S class TvZ.
If you go by stats you have people like Leta/Skyhigh grouped with Fantasy lol.
Basically it's pretty obvious when someone is S class overall (the top 5) or has an S class matchup (Yarnc/July). Kinda like being a bonjwa. You just are. Fantasy is not S-class TvZ lol..
Yeah, 6-7 vs. Jaedong in his career...kid's TvZ is clearly not S-class lol
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Thanks Nevuk! That list is interesting for a comparison.
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Forget ELO, let's use the Power Rank for determining the current S-class.
Looks like Flash is B-class after all. Your 2299 ELO doesn't fool me, you little devil!
No but seriously, I think Bisu should be considered S-class in all 3 matchups still, maybe 2180 instead of 2200 is a good mark?
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On August 16 2009 22:21 Hinanawi wrote:
No but seriously, I think Bisu should be considered S-class in all 3 matchups still, maybe 2180 instead of 2200 is a good mark?
Jaedong also definitely has S-class ZvT still.
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Is this by Elo, KeSPA rankings or just some stupid thing you made up? You don't think Stork and Jangbi are S?
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EPT
