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For all you people who havent watched this series, do yourself a favor and do it now.
You might remember BaBy shaking up the BW world with his performance vs Jangbi in his previous series. He pulled off some impressive TvP skills that a lot of people are talking about. On Sunday he showed he is not a 1 trick pony with some intense TvZ play.
These games are high level, and really exciting.
BaBy showed us some extreme Wraith usage in game 2 of the series.
Getting the most kills with wraiths I have ever seen.
http://www.gomtv.net/videos/732
Here is a tally of the Wraith kills that were shown on screen:
39 Drones
9 Overlords
25 Mutalisks
1 Zergling
3 Hydralisks
2 Scourage
5 Lurkers
"The best TvZ we have seen yet" -Tasteless
(img credit: NeverGG I found it on goggle)
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what i dont get is since baby did so much damage with his wraiths, how did 815 still manage to gather up a big army and win the game?
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United States2822 Posts
That's not 815, that's Modesty.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
Yeah it wouldn't hurt if he actually won the game. Leta shows how scary terran air units can be better than anybody.
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Babys wraith micro was incredible. He just screwed up majorly when he pushed out too early and lost a few tanks / rines allowing 815 to do some devastating drops.
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He spent most of his money on wraiths so he didn't have much of a ground army to deal with the hydra/lurk once the zerg started pushing out. He also didn't have enough detection besides scan nor tanks which screwed him vs lurks. Baby trying to defend both his back nat and his front nat spread him too thin so he couldn't adequately defend attacks from either side.
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On May 12 2009 23:31 Bosu wrote:
Babys wraith micro was incredible. He just screwed up majorly when he pushed out too early and lost a few tanks / rines allowing 815 to do some devastating drops.
MODESTY
Insane wraiths..
but sad that he still lost..
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On May 12 2009 23:29 Magic84 wrote:
Yeah it wouldn't hurt if he actually won the game. Leta shows how scary terran air units can be better than anybody.
Because Baby moved half of his army out at one point and lost 3 tanks that he needed for a later push, not to mention those 3 tanks would have been able to help Baby defend Modesty's drop easily.
But since he lost them, Modesty's drop was successful and Baby lost that match.
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amazing wraith micro, was very exciting to watch
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+ Show Spoiler +Even though baby did a phenomenal job of dishing out pain with his wraiths, modesty had 3 base at that time and could recover easily from babys harassment, plus baby does not even have a decent ground forces and plus plus, his wraith play delayed his first expo time significantly...
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that series vs. jangbi was epic. I was watching that series at my work with no sounds but it still thrilled the shit out of me. I'm going to watch this one now. Thanks.
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I was shocked. I was like WTF BABY RAPED 815? Although his record kinda wont prove it but 815 is actually a decent player, he is just too greedy sometimes. Modesty on the other hand, is just terrible.
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baby was greedy that is what happened
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On May 12 2009 23:52 iLoveKTF wrote:
Modesty on the other hand, is just terrible.
And here's the first reason why I was not that impressed by the wraith micro. Modesty defendet poorly.
The second that it obviously didn't help baby to win the game.
No way this was the best TvZ we've ever seen.
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Baby has Nada (most successful player of all time) and Mind (former MSL winner and one of the strongest players ever in terms of timing and strategy) on his team. He is definitely getting some of the best terran mentorship possible, excluding fantasy on sktt1. I remember when Baby beat Daezang on Monty Hall, even if that match didn't matter. I was his fan since then.
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I disagree with the claim that Baby had really perfect or S class play. He just made too many mistakes in this series to be considered to be considered among the best.
However, I am a huge fan of baby's gameplay after the jangbi series and this series. That wraith control was spectacular. All of his games have been entertaining to watch so far.
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whoa that was nice play but what a fail way to lose.
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On May 12 2009 23:27 whatusername wrote:
what i dont get is since baby did so much damage with his wraiths, how did 815 still manage to gather up a big army and win the game?
You guys should see Forgg vs Jangbi, Forgg loses 100+ units to reavers and still wins haha.
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On May 12 2009 23:52 iLoveKTF wrote:
I was shocked. I was like WTF BABY RAPED 815? Although his record kinda wont prove it but 815 is actually a decent player, he is just too greedy sometimes. Modesty on the other hand, is just terrible.
MODESTY not 815
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how did baby lose that match? he killed so many drones and modesty still made a come back with 99 lurks+ drop+ speed+ wasted mutas + 1/1 wtf???
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United States12607 Posts
Thanks a lot for tallying the wraith kills...I love fun stats like that. 84 total kills, crazy!!
Good game recommendation.
Edit: what the hell, how could BaBy possibly lose this game. He must have neglected his macro while doing all of that fancy wraith micro? Modesty's economy was set so, so far behind...
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hydralurk seems to be a good counter to 2portwraith into MnM =p
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United States17042 Posts
On May 13 2009 01:12 JFKWT wrote:
hydralurk seems to be a good counter to 2portwraith into MnM =p
It's supposed to be. Baby pushed out and lost his first force of mnm and tank, instead of playing safely and getting his third gas. The counter to hydra/lurk should have been tank + 2 port vessel + mnm, but baby didn't get his third gas so he couldn't have all the units. Hydra/lurk is very good against vessel (sk T) but not very good against tank+mnm (oov style). Baby tried to hit the timing when he had the tanks and the first 2 vessels, but he wanted to end the game there instead of trying to extend his lead and plant the third cc.
The drop tech was a nice touch from modesty, and it allowed him to spread baby's forces and win him the game. I think that it's also possible that baby underestimated the economy of modesty becuase of how many kills that he got. The third gas and third hatch that modesty had was key to allowing him to replenish his economy easily, and is the difference between the wraith build on that map and
+ Show Spoiler +the wraith build that leta uses on outsider
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I watched this entire series from the comfort of the edge of my seat. I just started watching these games on GOM about a week ago, but Baby is quickly becoming a favourite of mine. Very fun to watch.
I kind of feel bad for not having any kind of strategic stuff to put here, but I'm still also new to player vs. player. I've had the game for years, but I haven't done much outside of Zero Clutter, and a couple of games in Lost Temple. (Behold, I suck.)
Anyway, great game, and an awesome series. I look forward to seeing more from Baby in the weeks to come.
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yeah baby was going batshit with those wraiths.
unfortunately he made some really bad pushing decisions and got wrecked.
i still couldnt believe modesty won that. it was a hilarious comeback series
cept for game one + Show Spoiler +
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On May 13 2009 00:39 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 23:52 iLoveKTF wrote:
I was shocked. I was like WTF BABY RAPED 815? Although his record kinda wont prove it but 815 is actually a decent player, he is just too greedy sometimes. Modesty on the other hand, is just terrible. MODESTY not 815
mmm... isnt that what I was implying? or you have a world of your own? or better yet, you only read up to the 815 part... :s
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Wow surprised 815 came back and won that game!
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On May 13 2009 09:40 Vasoline73 wrote:
Wow surprised 815 came back and won that game!
edit quick. before ilikestarcraft or something quotes you.
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On May 13 2009 09:44 iLoveKTF wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2009 09:40 Vasoline73 wrote:
Wow surprised 815 came back and won that game! edit quick. before ilikestarcraft or something quotes you.
Hehe I was just trying to troll someone into being all "ITZWANSNT815NOOB"
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Since seeing babies games I've started using his strats -_- they are fun!
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The map really helped out Baby there. There's no way he would have been able to set up his nat without the help of it being a backdoor nat.
This game really just shows how fragile wraith builds are (and really why they aren't used too often).
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I think baby lost because while his micro was pretty, his macro was sloppy and his unit use was pretty bad. He suicided quite a few tanks and that was probably what lost the game.
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That was crazy to watch, he seems very confident with the execution of his plays. The dropships vs. Jangbi was so good and the wraith play was also. For such a young kid he doesn't seem intimidated by anything and just goes about his business.
Even though Baby lost the game, he can find consolation in himself for killing 39 drones. lol 
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United States12607 Posts
On May 13 2009 10:24 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2009 09:44 iLoveKTF wrote:On May 13 2009 09:40 Vasoline73 wrote:
Wow surprised 815 came back and won that game! edit quick. before ilikestarcraft or something quotes you. Hehe I was just trying to troll someone into being all "ITZWANSNT815NOOB"
... not funny ...
It is a good question though, some strategy expert needs to find this thread and enlighten us.
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pretty sure any jaedong flash game is > modesty/baby
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United States12607 Posts
On May 13 2009 12:46 boxxyownz wrote:
pretty sure any jaedong flash game is > modesty/baby
Thank you for your consistently valuable contributions to this forum.
+ Show Spoiler +Your username is a perfect reflection of your posting quality.
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On May 13 2009 12:48 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2009 12:46 boxxyownz wrote:
pretty sure any jaedong flash game is > modesty/baby Thank you for your consistently valuable contributions to this forum. + Show Spoiler +Your username is a perfect reflection of your posting quality.
And his age.
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Ya that game was incredibly exciting. I loved it when Tasteless and Daniel were like, "There's no way Baby can lose this now." then 10 min later, "There's no way Modesty can lose this."
lol great game.
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On May 13 2009 00:48 justiceknight wrote:
how did baby lose that match? he killed so many drones and modesty still made a come back with 99 lurks+ drop+ speed+ wasted mutas + 1/1 wtf???
his macro sucked.
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On May 13 2009 11:03 thunk wrote:
The map really helped out Baby there. There's no way he would have been able to set up his nat without the help of it being a backdoor nat.
This game really just shows how fragile wraith builds are (and really why they aren't used too often).
no the game doesn't really show that- it shows that microing constantly with wraiths means a loss in macro.
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yeah after seeing how much he killed, i was surprised how baby lost. i thought he would have won guaranteed entering this thread. losing that big m&m army hurt him so much.
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It wasn't just macro, his macro was OK enough to win, but poor pushing and timing decisions.
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nvm there is no youtube clip up
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Baby is overated, yes he does alot of exciting plays and differs from the rest of the players we see nowadays, however, i felt that he was too much focus on doing these "show-manship" plays that he mostly neglected his basic plays, most notably his macro... i could see great potential of this kid, him being so young after all, but i don't think he's at the level where everyone should be over-hyping about..... just yet
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On May 16 2009 06:07 Shizuru~ wrote:
Baby is overated, yes he does alot of exciting plays and differs from the rest of the players we see nowadays, however, i felt that he was too much focus on doing these "show-manship" plays that he mostly neglected his basic plays, most notably his macro... i could see great potential of this kid, him being so young after all, but i don't think he's at the level where everyone should be over-hyping about..... just yet
It wasn't even his macro. His minimap eyes and response times were all good, his micro was superb, his macro was great. What really killed him is the bad timing and lack of strategic adaptation.
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On May 16 2009 06:07 Shizuru~ wrote:
Baby is overated, yes he does alot of exciting plays and differs from the rest of the players we see nowadays, however, i felt that he was too much focus on doing these "show-manship" plays that he mostly neglected his basic plays, most notably his macro... i could see great potential of this kid, him being so young after all, but i don't think he's at the level where everyone should be over-hyping about..... just yet
Baby has been beating NaDa in practice games for months now.
I DUNNO BRO.
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wheres your source on that?
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On May 13 2009 13:04 Titusmaster6 wrote:
Ya that game was incredibly exciting. I loved it when Tasteless and Daniel were like, "There's no way Baby can lose this now." then 10 min later, "There's no way Modesty can lose this."
lol great game. Ha ha that game had the most turn arounds of "there is no way X" can lose this that I have ever seen. It was awesome 'till the very end. That should be an example to all of you who keep asking "why didn't he GG yet???" 
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I think Baby was also constantly pumping wraiths the entire game which really slowed down making of a ground army. Sure he got a lot of kills that were counted by the OP, but did anybody count the wraiths baby lost?
You can kill a ton of Zerg units with Wraiths, but you can't win the game with Wraiths. Was a mistake that Baby lost the three tanks, but he probably should have just focused on making a ground push earlier and stopped making wraiths.
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On May 13 2009 12:21 ReS wrote:That was crazy to watch, he seems very confident with the execution of his plays. The dropships vs. Jangbi was so good and the wraith play was also. For such a young kid he doesn't seem intimidated by anything and just goes about his business. Even though Baby lost the game, he can find consolation in himself for killing 39 drones. lol
I would argue that winning the series was even better consolation
On May 16 2009 06:21 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2009 06:07 Shizuru~ wrote:
Baby is overated, yes he does alot of exciting plays and differs from the rest of the players we see nowadays, however, i felt that he was too much focus on doing these "show-manship" plays that he mostly neglected his basic plays, most notably his macro... i could see great potential of this kid, him being so young after all, but i don't think he's at the level where everyone should be over-hyping about..... just yet Baby has been beating NaDa in practice games for months now. I DUNNO BRO.
whoa if thats true thats pretty scary considering nada's tvt is not so shabby at all... meaning Baby seems to be no pushover in all 3 matchups
@Shizuru
of course it's too early to judge how strong a player he is/ is gonna be but time will tell and I dont mind some hype =)
I just hope the whole f*ed up wemade fox situation doesnt effect his play
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i didn't except that modesty will win this after seeing those wraiths last week
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I think should research burrow to counter the wraith harass. it's cheap and the progamers should be able to start mining again pretty fast. it's certainly save lots and lots of drones.
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On May 13 2009 00:39 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2009 23:52 iLoveKTF wrote:
I was shocked. I was like WTF BABY RAPED 815? Although his record kinda wont prove it but 815 is actually a decent player, he is just too greedy sometimes. Modesty on the other hand, is just terrible. MODESTY not 815
You didn't read what he wrote, did you?
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On May 16 2009 06:07 Shizuru~ wrote:
Baby is overated, yes he does alot of exciting plays and differs from the rest of the players we see nowadays, however, i felt that he was too much focus on doing these "show-manship" plays that he mostly neglected his basic plays, most notably his macro... i could see great potential of this kid, him being so young after all, but i don't think he's at the level where everyone should be over-hyping about..... just yet
How is micro 'showmanship'? Because its not boring like macro? Wondering what your line of reasoning is.
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On May 17 2009 02:39 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2009 06:07 Shizuru~ wrote:
Baby is overated, yes he does alot of exciting plays and differs from the rest of the players we see nowadays, however, i felt that he was too much focus on doing these "show-manship" plays that he mostly neglected his basic plays, most notably his macro... i could see great potential of this kid, him being so young after all, but i don't think he's at the level where everyone should be over-hyping about..... just yet How is micro 'showmanship'? Because its not boring like macro? Wondering what your line of reasoning is.
Because it's something the audience can see in front of them, it can be cute, it can become a pimpest play? (He didn't say macro wasn't showmanship, either.)
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On May 16 2009 11:26 whatusername wrote:
wheres your source on that?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/10276_BaBy_vs_HiyA/vod
I believe this is the game where it was said that BaBy beats NaDa in practice. I'm not going to bother watching through it to find exactly when it was said, and if you can't understand Korean then it's just too bad for you.
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thats crazy. the sad thing is, even with such stellar wraith micro wraiths just aren't good enough units to give baby the win. maybe he should play zerg? mutas are generally better
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On June 04 2009 05:48 funnybananaman94 wrote:
thats crazy. the sad thing is, even with such stellar wraith micro wraiths just aren't good enough units to give baby the win. maybe he should play zerg? mutas are generally better
Leta wins with them all the time. Baby is just not good enough.
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United States4126 Posts
On June 04 2009 06:32 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2009 05:48 funnybananaman94 wrote:
thats crazy. the sad thing is, even with such stellar wraith micro wraiths just aren't good enough units to give baby the win. maybe he should play zerg? mutas are generally better Leta wins with them all the time. Baby is just not good enough.
Baby fails to follow through with the build well enough. He lost recently to Effort too even after doing a lot of damage.
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On June 04 2009 06:39 Kinky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2009 06:32 Holgerius wrote:On June 04 2009 05:48 funnybananaman94 wrote:
thats crazy. the sad thing is, even with such stellar wraith micro wraiths just aren't good enough units to give baby the win. maybe he should play zerg? mutas are generally better Leta wins with them all the time. Baby is just not good enough. Baby fails to follow through with the build well enough. He lost recently to Effort too even after doing a lot of damage.
I don't think that is a completely legitimate argument merely in the fact that the build was different in that baby followed his wraith build with 2 dropship plays which were both moderately unsuccessful. As a whole, the wraiths didn't do THAT much damage, and because of the unsuccessful dropship plays, effort was able to find a good timing to do a timing attack on baby's natural/main. And in reality, the wraiths didn't do ENOUGH damage...you really need to do A LOT of damage with 2 port wraiths for it to pay off. If the dropship play had been more effective (and a damned perfect hold-lurker by effort)...maybe baby could have pulled through...but not so.
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Sorry for bumping this(although the wraith micro is REALLY worth seeing), I was looking for the vod in this thread on google, found this thread and noticed the OP link is incorrect now due to the restructure of gomsite; it's
http://www.gomtv.net/classics3/vod/732 now.
Also, if anyone has an alternate link to the vod it would be great because gomtv won't let me sign in from my uni proxy for some reason >_>
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thanks always looking to see good games again
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On December 06 2010 10:50 Armathai wrote:Sorry for bumping this(although the wraith micro is REALLY worth seeing), I was looking for the vod in this thread on google, found this thread and noticed the OP link is incorrect now due to the restructure of gomsite; it's http://www.gomtv.net/classics3/vod/732 now. Also, if anyone has an alternate link to the vod it would be great because gomtv won't let me sign in from my uni proxy for some reason >_>
korean commentators: http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XOTA2OTA0NjQ=.html
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What a game, OMG. Sick Wraith micro. Thanks for bumping this. Never had heard of this game before.
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On December 06 2010 11:58 synapse wrote:But 815 still won. + Show Spoiler +Good to see continuing interest in BW <3
It's still modesty and not 815^^
they are not the same =)
However Baby did win the bo3.
Also thanks a lot a176! Now I got to rewatch it as well
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I just thought I'd mention how gay baby's ign is.
User was warned for this post
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On December 06 2010 12:18 Armathai wrote:It's still modesty and not 815^^ they are not the same =) However Baby did win the bo3. Also thanks a lot a176! Now I got to rewatch it as well
yeah and the next game was really good too, 4pool vs forward 8 raxx, was enjoyable, to say the least (:
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i love baby but there is no fking excuse for him losing after such great play. the zerg was in the gutter all day...
edit:
zerg had the expos so the zerg was able to come back. So baby you are excused!
after watching this i am so happy there is no wraith like unit in SC2. thank god my mutas do not have to compete ;P
but mark my words i bet a scout and wraith like unit will appear in the sc2 expansions!
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To be fair, no one really knew how to play 2port wraiths properly until Leta perfected it. Baby's gotten a lot better at it recently. Guess he had to go through some rather painful loses for a while beforehand though.
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I feel sad for Tasteless.
Look at that voice and look at the voice now. How easy he talks back then, now while he is talking he is burning 10k calories.
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On December 06 2010 16:28 koreasilver wrote:
To be fair, no one really knew how to play 2port wraiths properly until Leta perfected it. Baby's gotten a lot better at it recently. Guess he had to go through some rather painful loses for a while beforehand though.
leta had already made a name for himself with two port wraith by this time. i remember saying to myself "this is like watching leta" when i saw that series
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/NeverGG/Miscwork/24.jpg)
