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Okay, recently there have been a sea of good protosses, and two of them have proven themselves to be the current protoss kings, the great protosses, Bisu, and Stork. (I wrote them in alphabetical order).
What I wanted to ask the majority of Teamliquid is who do you think had the harder road in this season's Starleague?
This discussion is ONLY about the difficulty of their Starleagues, and for those who are wondering, I'm doing this because of the 'interesting' Power Rank discussion. Just thought that this would garner the opinions of those that do not comment on the Power Rank.
Poll: Who had a harder Starleague?
(Vote): Bisu: Much, FBH, Backho, Hwasin, FBH, Free, Jangbi
(Vote): Stork: Backho, Sea, Fantasy, Bisu, Best, Fantasy
Yeah, almost a direct copy.
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Harder in what terms? Objectively, I think Stork faced tougher opponents, but in terms of playing in your worst MU against above average players, Bisu faced a relatively tougher road. In my opinion, the starleague path of Stork and Bisu says nothing much besides the fact that Bisu is more well rounded than Stork, and in the areas Stork is strong at he is stronger than Bisu (arguably slightly, but this is subjective as well).
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Harder as in harder to win? Taking into account their abilities and race, of course.
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Wow, neither of them played a zerg. I guess I knew that, but its just pretty amazing.
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What I mean is that Stork may face the #2 pvp in the world and if he is the #1 pvp, then he shouldnt have that hard of a time subjectively (since ideally he should win). While if Bisu is the #5 pvp and he is facing the #3 pvp, he should have a harder time winning, subjectively.
But if you look at it objectively and not take into account Bisu and Stork's pvp strength, then Stork has a harder time because he is facing a better pvp player.
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Well, Bisu didn't have to beat Stork in his Starleague. Voting Stork!
Edit: Oh, and this thread should have [SPOILER] in its title...
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Oh crap, sorry, I'mma PM a mod right now.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
all 4 finalists and semifinalists had their easy way up there
because SOME 2 BEST PLAYERS DROPPED OFF TOO FUCKING EARLY
but I voted for stork.
edit: Another JD vs flash final plz next season, dont care who wins deliver us an epic BO5 PLEASSEEE
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Stork by far.. -_-;;;
I mean i'm a huge fan of Bisu myself but I cant help thinking he had tremendous luck on him as he advanced to win MSL..
Backho, Hwasin and FBH.. All who we know who suffer miserably vs Protoss MU..
Same with Free whos been playing extremely well recently but also not so great on pvp front..
I mean yea luck counts as skill too and Bisu's pvp is top class no doubt.. But if he met Flash or Jaedong or even Stork on the way, whether he still would have made it to the finals is very questionable..
On the other hand for Stork, we already know he outplays anyone anywhere anytime.. EXCEPT for the finals..
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Stork had harder list of opponents, for sure. He also had to overcome his own silver medalist mental block.
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Given Stork's mentality of choking, I guess I would say he had the harder toad too, both subjectively and objectively  .
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United States47024 Posts
Bisu had a tougher group stage, but Stork definitely had the harder Bo3/Bo5 series. Bisu/Best/Fantasy is tougher than FBH/Free/Jangbi.
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huh, the better you consider bisu's competition the more it speaks for stork's win over him. stork all the way.
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United States2186 Posts
Stork's opponents were harder, there is no question. Fantasy was a strong player who came prepared with a great game plan. Jangbi is a very good player in singles matches but isn't the same thing in a series; he's very similar to Best. Hint, Bisu didn't 'outluck' Jangbi so many times in a row.
Fantasy>Any of Bisu's opponents by far.
Best>~ Bisu's opponents, but only slightly. Jangbi is very similar to Best overall, but Best is much stronger at PvP. Free is a more dangerous series opponent than Jangbi and could potentially have fair odds vs Best in a bo5, we can't tell due to lack of history. It's just Free vs Bisu is a really bad matchup for Free since he can't outthink Bisu.
However, Stork got through without playing a single game in BY FAR his worst matchup. His PvZ isn't remotely comparable to his PvT/PvP. It's like July never having to play ZvT in his 3rd win(although July's creampuff opponent list was as bad as Jangbi's joke run up to meeting Kal).
Bisu on the other hand, got through without playing a single game in by far his BEST matchup. It's like Flash in Bacchus, except Flash's series opponents were all S level opponents while Bisu's were merely on fire A level players.
Free was a pretty strong opponent and is playing incredibly well overall. Bisu just made him seem bad by continually getting the right build advantages and some very impresive defense in game 2. Notice how he does this all the time in PvP? Even going all the way back to his games vs rA (3-0) in GOM 1. It was dismissed as 2 luck BO wins, but when you get the luck in your favor every single time over such a long period, you just cannot classify it as luck anymore. Bisu's PvP is like Flash's TvP. He can play blind and guess correctly what his opponent's will do every time. The only player that Bisu can't do this to it seems is Stork, as their series have been extremely close/back and forth. Besides EVER semis of course, where Bisu was mentally off and got raped.
And FBH's TvP, despite its history, was looking really good overall. But it relied on certain timing windows which Bisu never let him get. And Medusa/Destination are very hard TvP, especially Medusa (new Katrina?). It's 11-1 in favor of P if you don't include statistics-breaker Flash (who is 3-0), and the only other win is some random terran beating up an out of shape Rainbow, which says nothing. A 2 fact on Destination, a previous build he had used and definitely stronger than 1 fact fe on it, could have worked if Bisu didn't limit this danger with all his early harassment. Athena was questionable FBH build choice and a good reaction from Bisu.
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Yeah, it's obvious that stork had some harder opponents but Bisu had to play against his worst match up alot of the times and not facing his best mu once. It was the total opposite for stork.
But it could easily make stork the one with the harder word.
Well for Power Rank, Stork did drop out of the MSL.... ehehehe
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I'm hoping they'll get to settle it straight up in GOM finals
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There is absolutely no doubt Stork had the harder road. If a terran or a zerg played against that lineup in the MSL, I would argue in favor of the MSL winner. The difference between Hwasin/FBH's TvP against their TvT/TvZ is astonishing. And even if PvT is not Bisu's strength, it doesn't take away from the fact that his opponents are not TvP juggernauts either.
Meanwhile, Stork's opponents are all VERY GOOD against tosses, except maybe fantasy, but he's too new to judge accurately.
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bisu.
why?
i love bisu.
fuck stork.
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On November 23 2008 15:14 Raithed wrote:
bisu.
why?
i love bisu.
fuck stork.
Did you even read the question? Using "I love bisu" as your reasoning for the question "who do you think had the harder road", makes you look like a retarded fanboy, go read the op for once.
I like both players a lot, although I do feel Stork had the harder road since he had to go up against Best. If Kal didn't kick stork's ass in MSL, things would have been A LOT harder for Bisu i believe.
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I second on the try to read the op thingy
and Stork had a harder run hands out I don't know why you people voting for Bisu, seriously Stork kicked both Bisu & Best's butts so come on..
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I love them both!
But Stork beat Bisu, so that kinda trumps everything ^^
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On November 23 2008 14:29 Tensai176 wrote:
Yeah, it's obvious that stork had some harder opponents but Bisu had to play against his worst match up alot of the times and not facing his best mu once. It was the total opposite for stork.
But it could easily make stork the one with the harder word.
Well for Power Rank, Stork did drop out of the MSL.... ehehehe
I agree with this 100%
Bisu had to play his worst matchups while Stork faced his best matchups (especially the finals , since finals is so important)
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have to be honest, stork's road was harder
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Stork faced tougher opponents hands down, but Bisu laid the smack down on the irrational hype behind some of the players he faced (FBH anyone?).
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Even though I'm happier Bisu won than Stork, I'll have to admit Stork had the tougher road. Would be nice though to see Stork vs Bisu in a 3rd Bo5 
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On November 23 2008 16:00 dinmsab wrote:Did you even read the question? Using "I love bisu" as your reasoning for the question "who do you think had the harder road", makes you look like a retarded fanboy, go read the op for once. I like both players a lot, although I do feel Stork had the harder road since he had to go up against Best. If Kal didn't kick stork's ass in MSL, things would have been A LOT harder for Bisu i believe.
it doesnt matter.
its bisu.
so bisu.
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United States10774 Posts
On November 23 2008 16:57 Raithed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2008 16:00 dinmsab wrote:On November 23 2008 15:14 Raithed wrote:
bisu.
why?
i love bisu.
fuck stork. Did you even read the question? Using "I love bisu" as your reasoning for the question "who do you think had the harder road", makes you look like a retarded fanboy, go read the op for once. I like both players a lot, although I do feel Stork had the harder road since he had to go up against Best. If Kal didn't kick stork's ass in MSL, things would have been A LOT harder for Bisu i believe. it doesnt matter. its bisu. so bisu.
hahaha win
voted Stork.
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Hmm, I was leaning Bisu since he didn't have to play a zerg and that's his best matchup, but the fact that Stork had to beat him seems pretty incontrovertible.
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I think it's pretty obvious Stork's road was significantly harder.
I fail to really see the point of this poll though.
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Bisu: Much (good)
FBH (terrible TvP)
Backho (terrible)
Hwasin (Bisus bitch + power of scouts)
FBH (terrible TvP)
Free (choker)
Jangbi(choker)
Stork:
Backho(terrible)
Sea(non-choker before RO8),
Fantasy(only good TvT)
Bisu(good)
Best(choker)
Fantasy(only good TvT)
Because of facing Sea in RO16 and since Bisu in a BO3 > Much in a BO1 I give it to Stork, eventhough I think Bisu is the better player.
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9070 Posts
Stork's path was harder, Bisu is the more successful and accomplished player
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Neither had to face a Zerg, so it feels wrong to call either of their paths 'hard'!
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On November 23 2008 13:41 p4fn2w wrote:
What I mean is that Stork may face the #2 pvp in the world and if he is the #1 pvp, then he shouldnt have that hard of a time subjectively (since ideally he should win). While if Bisu is the #5 pvp and he is facing the #3 pvp, he should have a harder time winning, subjectively.
But if you look at it objectively and not take into account Bisu and Stork's pvp strength, then Stork has a harder time because he is facing a better pvp player.
lol, best was on a 15-game streak. just another bisu-fanboy who lacks brains.
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I think  Bisu because Storks PvT is his best match up and fagget ass Fantasy was too into his gay valkery play tvz imo I dunno
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Stork is noot potential progamer like Bisu.3 MSL gold is not easy to win.
3 MSL golds >>> 1 GOld OSL,100 Silvers.
Fantasy is overrated.Sea is in a slump,backho too . Stork won only Best with several cheese's. If watch the last game of Bisu vs Stork in OSL, u will see that Stork has won cause of luck...etc
I think Bisu's way is harder cause he has 2 bo5 to go to the final. IMO
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On November 23 2008 22:13 simcar wrote:
Stork is noot potential progamer like Bisu.3 MSL gold is not easy to win.
3 MSL golds >>> 1 GOld OSL,100 Silvers.
Fantasy is overrated.Sea is in a slump,backho too . Stork won only Best with several cheese's. If watch the last game of Bisu vs Stork in OSL, u will the Stork has won cause of luck...etc
So Bisu's way is harder cause he has 2 bo5 to go to the final.
HAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHHAA
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On November 23 2008 13:42 mtmf wrote:
Well, Bisu didn't have to beat Stork in his Starleague. Voting Stork!
mm, neither did stork have to beat bisu, right?
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GOD DAMN IT I was going to watch Bisu vs Jangbi. Thanks for spoiling OP, you fcking idiot. Shouldve named this "Stork vs MSL winner" at least.
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FBH, Hwasin, Free, Backho... that's -_-;; Free is still not really known for PvP.
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Did you not read the first post?
Oh, boy.
Bisu is a better PvZ player and neither of them played a Zerg.
Based on the T's and P's they played I would say Stork obviously had the harder road because those players are not only mechanically more sound, but most of them have made it to the top more recently.
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On November 23 2008 22:44 Piste wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2008 13:42 mtmf wrote:
Well, Bisu didn't have to beat Stork in his Starleague. Voting Stork! mm, neither did stork have to beat bisu, right?
Are you kidding me? Do you know anything at all?
Anyway, Bisu was pretty much given this MSL on a silver platter. Didn't have to face Stork, Best, Jaedong, Flash, NOBODY. Not even in the group stages; FBH was a fluke. This was probably the easiest MSL ever won.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
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Since Stork beat Bisu I'd say he had the hardest way...
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i'm a bisu fan but i think stork had a harder time in the osl.
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stork harder route of course and he always seem to be invincible before a final. Throw him any route he would still advance. This season's gomtv will determine who is the king. All the top players(bisu,stork,jangbi,jaedong,flash,free,best)looks good to survive till R08 and the real game starts.
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On November 24 2008 00:06 rosas wrote:
i'm a bisu fan but i think stork had a harder time in the osl.
I second that. As much as I don't like Stork (for no apparent reason actually), I still have to admire the hardships he went (and made) through.
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also gotta consider the fact that he had a psychological factor of always getting second. so stork
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On November 23 2008 23:41 ahole-surprise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2008 22:44 Piste wrote:On November 23 2008 13:42 mtmf wrote:
Well, Bisu didn't have to beat Stork in his Starleague. Voting Stork! mm, neither did stork have to beat bisu, right? Are you kidding me? Do you know anything at all?
No I'm not kidding, that was a question (that's why there's a question-mark). I first thought this was about MSL only. And yes I do know a lot of things.
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The SKT1 all-kill by Stork was pretty sick and said it all.
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EPT
