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I am aware most/some of this stuff is probably well known. If not cool, whatever.
I want to share some timing stuff for zerg (mostly) and would like to see some other stuff I might not know for Z. However, I would like to see stuff for any race so all can participate (plus it can't hurt my off-races anyways).
Anyways
Zerg Tips:
Perfect Lings/Sunken:
Stop making drones before pool is at 450/750 to save larva for lings, likewise make colony at 450 for perfect timing. larva/drone = 20?
Perfect Lurkers:
Make Hydra Den exactly at 60% Lair completion (hydra den takes 40, lair takes 100)
Perfect Expo Gas:
Make an extractor at around 835/1250 of the hatch for dual completion (right when the hitpoints turn green).
Extractor takes 40, Hat takes 120.
This also helps complete the creep to spread faster.
Least Optimal Mutalisk Morphing:
6 drones on mineral and 3-4 on gas (depending on placement) for constant muta/lord morphing. *3 muta, 1 lord, 1 muta, repeat. (For those crucial ZvZ games)
*This is optimal way to pump off of 1 hatch mutas even with more drones.
Fastest Lair/Muta:
Wait for 250 mineral then 9extractor/8pool (same time nearly), 2 drones, 9lord, 9Lair, 9drone, 10-3 sets of lings, 2 drone, Spire, Ling, Ling, Lord, Ling, 3 muta, Muta, Hatch, Lord, Muta, --- 6:40~ mutas
Battle.net Tips:
Wait about 6 cursor blinks if booted, banned, or closed out of a game to avoid the blank game list 'glitch'.
When you don't join a game right away, Press ESC to avoid the popup latency window (You'll never see it again).
Now here is somethings I would like to find out:
Higher DPS for tanks? What kills a base faster seige or unseige? (assuming that the you move tanks into new targets as they run out)
As Zerg, how long to wait after opponent stims before I rush in so that it will wear off just before combat or during combat (so he will have to re-stim)?
By all means please post anything relevant at all.
I'll try an update the OP with new info as it is confirmed by me or others.
edit- sorry for typos and such I posted this and didn't have time to edit. Plus I added a few more
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Thanks for the battle.net tips. Life savers they are =D
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
In general, you should destroy an empty defenseless base (that has no reinforcements) with unsieged tanks instead of sieged tanks. Sieged tanks have a higher dps: Unsieged tanks have a damage rate of 0.81; sieged tanks of 0.93 - but the siege mode is useful in battles for its range, splash, and 1-hit kills; none of those matter in base-destruction (splash might even hurt you), and mobility does matter, to the point where it's probably better to be able to always move around killing buildings instead of having to unsiege and reseige every so often.
See:
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Wow, I had no idea about the Battle.net tricks, thank you! I always play on iCCup now anyway...
I'm going to go try them now ^^
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51647 Posts
What exactly is a cursor blink?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
For reavers + shuttles:
Shuttle build time = 40
Zealot build time = 40
Reaver build time = 70
Bay build time = [I forget]
If you want 2 zealots in your shuttle from one gate, start one as your shuttle is around 75% done (assuming you are starting reaver right after shuttle) and the other should start a little before your reaver is halfway done. The three will all be ready for the shuttle.
The support bay can be built around when the shuttle is halfway done for the shuttle to finish just as the bay finishes, allowing you to start the reaver immediately. [I'd need a more solid build time figure before giving a more precise timing]
For arbiter research timing, check out this sick post from NonY:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=68289#15
On March 21 2008 04:50 NonY[rC] wrote:
...This isn't exactly right because if the arbiter begins building before the energy upgrade is complete, it will spawn with 50 energy even if the energy upgrade completed while the arbiter was building. Upgrading energy can benefit the second arbiter. Also, an arbiter gains just under 50 energy in the time it take stasis to research, so no time is lost from the ability to cast your first stasis by upgrading energy first.
So the optimal setup:
1. Build arbiter and research energy upgrade as soon as tribunal finishes.
2. First Arbiter finishes.
3. A few seconds later, energy upgrade finishes. Start second arbiter and stasis upgrade.
4. Stasis finishes at the same time first arbiter reaches 100 energy.
5. Second arbiter completes and starts with 62.5 energy.
Going through that trouble will get you a 2nd stasis/recall 12.5 energy sooner.
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Kinda always wish there was an actual chart of building times on fastest.
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The only ones I use are when I'm zerg. The hydra den one that has already been mentioned, and the 9 pool speedling (pool,drone, extractor,drone, overlord, and the overlord will finish right as the spawning does).
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Another Zerg build whose larvae timing works out well (from July):
9 overlord
11 pool
11 hatch
Pool should finish with 3 larvae and 150 minerals just barely in the bank.
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11/11 Barracks/Refinery timing will let you build a Factory immediately after the Barracks is complete.
I guess this is the sort of thing you're looking for?
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8751 Posts
Stasis duration = the time it takes to gain 33 energy. You can have some sick storm timing on units just coming out of stasis with this info! And also, of much less practical use, it means that 3 arbiters that have at least 34/67/100 energy can keep a stasis going forever.
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8751 Posts
Shuttle = 60
Support Bay = 30
So Grinq is right about starting the bay halfway through shuttle build time.
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On September 06 2008 11:40 Equinox_kr wrote:
11/11 Barracks/Refinery timing will let you build a Factory immediately after the Barracks is complete.
I guess this is the sort of thing you're looking for?
Everyone sorta knows that.
On the topic of really obvious and known Terran timings:
Start Tank and Mines at the same time. Queue up vulture behind tank. Vulture pops the EXACT second mines finish.
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Making a 2nd shop right before first tank when doing 2fac allows the shop to finsh right when the tank finishes.
take 2 scvs off gas right after your first factory finishes. Put them back when your factory is at either 950/1250 or when your gas count reaches 100 (which ever comes first) so that when you start shop, you will have approx 250 gas to get tank and seige mode when shop is complete.
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United States4991 Posts
On September 06 2008 11:11 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Perfect Lings/Sunken:
Stop making drones before pool is at 450/900 to save larva for lings, likewise make colony at 450 for perfect timing. larva/drone = 20?
Spawning pool has 750 life, not 900?
Ah hah, you post at the pace of an ensnared Reaver!
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
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Calgary26003 Posts
A Spawning Pool doesn't have 900 HP. You save at 375 for perfect Zerglings. I stopped reading after that. Utter failure.
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PvT
First 2 goons will reach the terran base before the tank pops out so u can rape the marines
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On September 06 2008 12:52 liquid_team wrote:
PvT
First 2 goons will reach the terran base before the tank pops out so u can rape the marines
That makes no sense.... elaborate? 1 gate? 2 gate? proxy? what map? is this with a zeal rush stall? what about his fact timing?
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On September 06 2008 12:24 Chill wrote:
A Spawning Pool doesn't have 900 HP. You save at 375 for perfect Zerglings. I stopped reading after that. Utter failure.
I thought it was 350? The first larva always comes out at 350 hp
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Can anyone answer some of these timing questions for Terran:
When do you get 2nd fact in TvP 1 fact FE, while the cc is building? what HP? when its finished? right before?
When do you get ebay in TvP 1 fact FE, before you add 'X' number facts for a timing push? right after? save up to build all facts and ebay at the same time? is the timing based on his build?
When do you get academy in TvP 1 fact FE, right after ebay? shortly after? is this dependent on his BO?
Do I push out to my 3rd before getting sci vessels or after? (for TvP/TvT)
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Not really a useful build, but If you go 9 Hatchery - Drone - Pool - Drone - Overlord - Extractor - Drone the Hatchery, Pool, Extractor and Overlord all finish at the same time with 4 larva and 200ish minerals.
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On September 06 2008 13:09 Grobyc wrote:
Can anyone answer some of these timing questions for Terran:
When do you get 2nd fact in TvP 1 fact FE, while the cc is building? what HP? when its finished? right before?
When do you get ebay in TvP 1 fact FE, before you add 'X' number facts for a timing push? right after? save up to build all facts and ebay at the same time? is the timing based on his build?
When do you get academy in TvP 1 fact FE, right after ebay? shortly after? is this dependent on his BO?
Do I push out to my 3rd before getting sci vessels or after? (for TvP/TvT)
This kind of thing isn't like a specific timing like a shuttle/support bay (where you want as fast of a reaver as possible). This is usually approximate and based on your money. 2nd fact is usually after CC finishes. Ebay depends on what you scout. If you see few dragoons, you might want to add it before the command center. Usually I add it directly after the command center finishes to be safer. During a timing push, I usually skip the ebay academy until the very last moment (I'd rather have units for the push rather than being safe, since I"m committing to a push anyways).
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On September 06 2008 11:25 GrandInquisitor wrote:See:
GI, that chart doesn't give dps it gives damage per cooldown time, right? Is there a hard formula to convert cooldown time (adjusting for the speed setting set from "fast" to "fastest") to seconds?
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Battle.net Tips:
Wait about 6 cursor blinks if booted, banned, or closed out of a game to avoid the blank game list 'glitch'.
WOW, Is this true?? I always got pissed after I joined a game and got banned or was full. Then I had to wait 5 mins to join another game.
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On September 06 2008 13:09 Grobyc wrote:
Can anyone answer some of these timing questions for Terran:
When do you get 2nd fact in TvP 1 fact FE, while the cc is building? what HP? when its finished? right before?
When do you get ebay in TvP 1 fact FE, before you add 'X' number facts for a timing push? right after? save up to build all facts and ebay at the same time? is the timing based on his build?
When do you get academy in TvP 1 fact FE, right after ebay? shortly after? is this dependent on his BO?
Do I push out to my 3rd before getting sci vessels or after? (for TvP/TvT)
this isnt timing you can control. it all depends on what other person is doing.
if ur playing blind, then make ebay right after cc, then fac right after 2nd tank for seige expo.
if u went mines first, then you might have a gas problem b/c of seige mode up.
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On September 06 2008 11:36 nevake wrote:
The only ones I use are when I'm zerg. The hydra den one that has already been mentioned, and the 9 pool speedling (pool,drone, extractor,drone, overlord, and the overlord will finish right as the spawning does).
yea and you can research burrow or speed right after you morph the lings too.
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On September 06 2008 11:33 GrandInquisitor wrote:
For reavers + shuttles:
Shuttle build time = 40
Zealot build time = 40
Reaver build time = 70
Bay build time = [I forget]
If you want 2 zealots in your shuttle from one gate, start one as your shuttle is around 75% done (assuming you are starting reaver right after shuttle) and the other should start a little before your reaver is halfway done. The three will all be ready for the shuttle.
The support bay can be built around when the shuttle is halfway done for the shuttle to finish just as the bay finishes, allowing you to start the reaver immediately. [I'd need a more solid build time figure before giving a more precise timing]
Yea, but I thought it was beneficial to research shuttle speed asap as well so that when the shuttle is moving out it kicks in. I remember an old post by Rek about this and he said something along the lines of being able to cancel it in case you wont need it too.
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On September 06 2008 13:40 LoRdofl)34Tl-l wrote:
Battle.net Tips:
Wait about 6 cursor blinks if booted, banned, or closed out of a game to avoid the blank game list 'glitch'.
WOW, Is this true?? I always got pissed after I joined a game and got banned or was full. Then I had to wait 5 mins to join another game.
jesus christ 5 minutes? What do you do click the shit knowing it'll be black and keep doing this every second ? You've gotta give it time to refresh, its almost like trying to log on b.net too fast when denied. It'll take longer the more you harass it.
I get kicked out of so many games in a row (especially by koreans) every day its infuriating, thats why I learned this little trick. Its not fool proof but it works most of the time, and if it doesnt work the first 6 blinks, just wait another 6 and that'll usually do it.
On September 06 2008 11:32 GTR-2-Go wrote:
What exactly is a cursor blink?
you know where you type?
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On September 06 2008 12:15 HnR)Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2008 11:11 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Perfect Lings/Sunken:
Stop making drones before pool is at 450/900 to save larva for lings, likewise make colony at 450 for perfect timing. larva/drone = 20?
Spawning pool has 750 life, not 900? Ah hah, you post at the pace of an ensnared Reaver! vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
On September 06 2008 12:24 Chill wrote:
A Spawning Pool doesn't have 900 HP. You save at 375 for perfect Zerglings. I stopped reading after that. Utter failure.
On September 06 2008 13:05 HypnoticPoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2008 12:24 Chill wrote:
A Spawning Pool doesn't have 900 HP. You save at 375 for perfect Zerglings. I stopped reading after that. Utter failure. I thought it was 350? The first larva always comes out at 350 hp
Sorry for the typos and non clarity.
Anyways, you need to have a larva out flipping around by at most 450 (thats why I said 'before') in order to have at least 2 larva when the pool finishes (and another 13ticks after). And yea 350 for a guaranteed 3 larva to morph lings.
And just to clarify further this is for overpool or FE builds, so you usually don't need 6 lings with all the larva, 4 is good for defense/harassment.
Lings take 26ticks, drones and larva take 20, The pool itself takes 80.
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no you need 6 for overpool, not getting 6 lings is like saying I'm a pussy I wanna save that one extra larva of economy cuz I never planned to harass anyway, toss will see this and build 2 zealots and come to rape you.
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On September 06 2008 15:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
no you need 6 for overpool, not getting 6 lings is like saying I'm a pussy I wanna save that one extra larva of economy cuz I never planned to harass anyway, toss will see this and build 2 zealots and come to rape you.
I actually meant ZvT when I wrote that, but it could still work out the same for ZvP because what you're saying is totally situational (toss has to not FE or canon/fe).
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On September 06 2008 14:33 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2008 11:33 GrandInquisitor wrote:
For reavers + shuttles:
Shuttle build time = 40
Zealot build time = 40
Reaver build time = 70
Bay build time = [I forget]
If you want 2 zealots in your shuttle from one gate, start one as your shuttle is around 75% done (assuming you are starting reaver right after shuttle) and the other should start a little before your reaver is halfway done. The three will all be ready for the shuttle.
The support bay can be built around when the shuttle is halfway done for the shuttle to finish just as the bay finishes, allowing you to start the reaver immediately. [I'd need a more solid build time figure before giving a more precise timing]
Yea, but I thought it was beneficial to research shuttle speed asap as well so that when the shuttle is moving out it kicks in. I remember an old post by Rek about this and he said something along the lines of being able to cancel it in case you wont need it too.
shuttle speed will not be ready when your shuttle + reaver+zlots are ready. it will be way more later, already when your shuttle is at opponents base.
if you make 2 reavers instead one tho, then your speed will kick in pretty soon after the second reaver.
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On September 06 2008 11:11 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Perfect Lurkers:
Make Hydra Den exactly at 60% Lair completion (hydra den takes 40, lair takes 100)
edit- sorry for typos and such I posted this and didn't have time to edit. Plus I added a few more
Lair and Hive takes 120 Build Time if i'm not mistaken
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On September 06 2008 15:14 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2008 15:07 zulu_nation8 wrote:
no you need 6 for overpool, not getting 6 lings is like saying I'm a pussy I wanna save that one extra larva of economy cuz I never planned to harass anyway, toss will see this and build 2 zealots and come to rape you. I actually meant ZvT when I wrote that, but it could still work out the same for ZvP because what you're saying is totally situational (toss has to not FE or canon/fe).
You should never or very rarely go overpool in zvt
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Knowing very little about timing myself, I can only say this...
At about 95 energy, you can start researching recall for arbiters. You can start researching stasis as soon as the first one finishes.
Against 2gate Protoss, you should wait for your expo to have two larvae, so that the lings coming from your main arrive about when the 2 larvae at your expo harass; Always fight winning battles, make sure you outnumber you opponent ZvP.
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does anyone know the correct CC/nex/hatch HP to transfer workers? obviously it changes from map to map, but appromimatly?
i just guess most of the time and it seems to work, but it would be nice to know.
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Piste, I said while its moving out (as in middle of the map or whatever).
Stambe, Its 100 check the map editor.
Zulu, I do Overpool almost every game regardless of matchup. It works fine.
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On September 06 2008 18:57 DhakhaR wrote:
does anyone know the correct CC/nex/hatch HP to transfer workers? obviously it changes from map to map, but appromimatly?
I just guess most of the time and it seems to work, but it would be nice to know.
hmm, thats a good question. Honestly I just eyeball it (as it is very map dependent anyways) when its like 1100/1250 hatch.
I just did a test on python, rather surprisingly it takes about 750/1250 of a hatch to move across the map with a drone. 128x128 map
So you can sort of divide the map up and figure the base distance into the timing of it.
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For a perfect +1 speed-zeal-rush you should start building core simultanously with +1 upgrade research.
Lurker research does take the same time as building spire or templar archives.
If you have started lair earlier than protoss has his cybercore, your mutas will spawn before archon is morphed.
If you start morphing lair soon after toss started his +1, your lurkers/mutas should come in time to save you from +1 speed-zeal-rush.
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Netherlands4523 Posts
instant win timing tvz:
1 rax cc
add 2nd rax
gas
academy
ebay
3rd rax
after upgrading 1 weapon, stim, and marine range get fact with first 100 gas that comes available.
keep producing from 3 rax while making tanks.. and a vessel.
move out with 3 groups of marines, a group of medics, 3 tanks, a vessel, and win the game.
constant scv production during all of this is crucial as well as making the fact with first 100 gas before you make any turrets.
gg!
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On September 06 2008 18:57 DhakhaR wrote:
does anyone know the correct CC/nex/hatch HP to transfer workers? obviously it changes from map to map, but appromimatly?
i just guess most of the time and it seems to work, but it would be nice to know.
1250 is the almost perfect time for CC's. They will all get to the minerals as the CC finishes, maybe a little earlier if you want them to be done mining and returning as cc finishes like 1225 etc. (Python~)
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On September 06 2008 20:38 ret wrote:instant win timing tvz: 1 rax cc add 2nd rax gas academy ebay 3rd rax after upgrading 1 weapon, stim, and marine range get fact with first 100 gas that comes available. keep producing from 3 rax while making tanks.. and a vessel. move out with 3 groups of marines, a group of medics, 3 tanks, a vessel, and win the game. constant scv production during all of this is crucial as well as making the fact with first 100 gas before you make any turrets. gg!
Thats pretty much what sea does always right? 9 minute hanbang
1 rax cc gas ebay(+1 weap) acad 2nd 3rd rax fact another one
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On September 06 2008 22:26 Ilikestarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2008 20:38 ret wrote:instant win timing tvz: 1 rax cc add 2nd rax gas academy ebay 3rd rax after upgrading 1 weapon, stim, and marine range get fact with first 100 gas that comes available. keep producing from 3 rax while making tanks.. and a vessel. move out with 3 groups of marines, a group of medics, 3 tanks, a vessel, and win the game. constant scv production during all of this is crucial as well as making the fact with first 100 gas before you make any turrets. gg! Thats pretty much what sea does always right? 9 minute hanbang 1 rax cc gas ebay(+1 weap) acad 2nd 3rd rax fact another one
Afaik, think this is the standard Terran timing push in TvZ. It consists of 2 groups of marines, about 6 Medics, 1-2 Tanks and a Vessel. Rolls out between 9:30-10:30 and aims to take down the Zerg's third base.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~edfu/starcraft/Unit%20stats.jpg)
