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On June 12 2008 05:19 B1nary wrote:
I just don't see him losing. Right now, he's looking even better than sAviOr in his prime since he doesn't have a weak match up. I can't think of anyone except MAYBE Jaedong who can take him down.
Did you even watch pro starcraft when savior played?..
With that comment I'll guess my theory is correct
To add my opinion in the OP.
I hope he does not win one tournament this year, he is one of the most boring players in the world and I've still not forgiven him for his 2 cheeses against bisu, i hope Karma slices his throat (nah, but...).
But in the shape he's in right now it makes me wonder how he could lose in both tournaments.
I think he will have an easier run in OSL UNTIL he meets the god of war also known as July. Where he will face his inner demons and get owned like the little baby he really is.
So be ready bandwagon guys, Bo5 Flash vs July plix
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Lol I find it funny that the two most unlikely choices are the ones most people are voting for.
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8751 Posts
On June 12 2008 05:52 blagoonga123 wrote:
Lol I find it funny that the two most unlikely choices are the ones most people are voting for.
that's quite a roundabout way of saying "i'm in the minority"
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you cant tell if flash > savior prime yet, hint hint, i said yet. flash hasnt won enough yet, okay, so stop theorycrafting. best has a fucking amazing chance at flash, jaedong too if he gets his act together but i still think flash will be the victor. flash-best rilvary.. this, i want, best is just a beast ... macroing like oov, trained by kingdom, what more does he want? however, ktf has offered a lot of good protosses to learn from reach, ra, lucifer, etc. maybe thats why his tvp seems "easy." i really do not give a hoot about jD though, i just want a best-flash game instead of that cocky 'i dont need to scout' game on colosseum where best just killed flash with carriers.
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On June 12 2008 05:45 Atrioc wrote:
Flash isnt better than the Maestro in his prime. He has terran-favored maps this season and only one OSL win, lets not get ahead of ourself. Hes dominant but lets see how long it lasts.
Plus:
Heavily slumping 1/8th fraction-of-himself complete crap sAviOr still went 3-4 with him in Skins.
this was before flash got good, mind you.
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On June 12 2008 03:02 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 02:39 darktreb wrote:On June 11 2008 23:59 IdrA wrote:On June 11 2008 23:23 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
after watching flash thrash every other competent player in the world do you honestly still think hes not good in standard play? I think flash is to bisu as jaedong is to savior, in other words - flash will always beat jaedong whenever they meet, but he'll eventually get crushed by a newcomer... The sc circle lol didnt say he wasnt good in standard play as he most obviously is. just said in standard games vs jaedong jaedong has outplayed him every time. also, jaedong beat him in the only bo5 series they played 3-1, only losing to mech on katrina. flash beat him with a sunken break and mech 2-1 (losing a straight up game) in osl and won vs him in the gsi 2-1 all 3 games being cheese from one side or another. Idra you obviously know and see more about the game than I do but I'm surprised to see you say this. After watching players like Mind and Hwasin systematically take down (demolish) Jaedong in recent games on the current map pool, I was of the opinion that Flash would be able to do it even more easily. I don't think there's anything that Mind or Hwasin do better than Flash right now (that's just my opinion of course). Are there things you've seen in Flash's (or Jaedong's/Mind's/Hwasin's) play that would lead you to think otherwise? Let me explain it to you actually Hwasin has a better TvZ then Flash and Mind's is a little bit weaker but almost the same.
Hwasin's TvZ better than Flash's? Does anyone else here really believe this?
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If he wins 0, the slump begins
If he wins 1, he's a contender
If he wins 2, he's the undisputable best
If he wins 3, he's a legend, with more to come
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On June 12 2008 04:39 anotak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2008 22:56 IdrA wrote:
he has yet to prove he can beat jaedong in a standard game. he beat him in 2 series but his wins were mmf sunken breaks, mech, and baekmagoji. jaedong won all of the biotankvessel vs muta ling lurk into defiler games, won them pretty easily for the most part.
flash is better now than he was and jaedong seems a bit worse, but id still say jaedong is a favorite given current maps that favor standard play a bit more. Yo have quite a point, however Jaedong is slumping and Flash getting better and better... And yeah, the maps encourage more standard play, however it doesn't mean that Flash will be forced into standard play. To be honest I think Colosseum is encouraging Wraith TvZ a little, already seen 2 games like that (one of which was from Flash, in addition to his wraith-heavy tvt on that map vs. DarkElf in PL). Especially with the ling-proof wallability of the map. That's nearly impossible to do on Othello though... other maps Wuthering can be made with lingproof walls... but it's very open and hydras will have an easy chance vs. wraiths. Then again, as a rather shitty player I might just be talking out of my ass altogether. Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 01:47 GunsofthePatriots wrote:On June 12 2008 01:37 IdrA wrote:On June 12 2008 01:36 GunsofthePatriots wrote:On June 12 2008 01:05 IdrA wrote:On June 12 2008 00:30 Vasoline73 wrote:
Why does everyone think BeSt has a shot at beating Flash in a BoX series?
Besides beating Flash in PL once when Flash didn't scout (good play by best though), BeSt has only beat the following terrans: NaDa, go.go, and UpMagic. And lost to Mind. Not exactly the craziest roster of opponents. because best is insanely good and on a hot streak? and the maps are good for pvt. andromeda and troy at least in osl, i forget the rest of the map pool. no ones calling best the favorite, but to say he doesnt have a shot is idiotic. BTW how is it going in korea? Getting your ass kicked? nope i 20-0'd everyone on the team. ... Can you pull that off in Courage League? Or will you choke? i hate all the idra haters blegh why do people have to go out of their way to talk shit about him
Hell when JD becomes like Savior or Ra now then u can call it slump..at the moment he isnt slumping at all...his ZvT may be weaker but his ZvP is absolutely stronger
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Actually Jaedong had troubles beating Flash in standard games even when Jaedong was in his prime. If Jaedong can't pull his tvz shit together he will not even win vs hwasin.
And no, hwasins tvz isn't better than flashs.
Only reason Jaedong won vs flash on Loki in the Bo5 was coz he played like a fucking miracle, and now he isn't, not vs terran atleast.
Flash still probably won't win all three of them. Most likely he'll win 1 of them though and second or so in the rest, but i hope he'll grab atleast 2 of them.
That being said, i really hope jaedong will get his shit together and start playing good vs terrans again, coz vs protoss and zerg he is still dominant.
Of course the others have a chance of beating him, but skillwise he is MUCH better than Mind, Kal, Much, Free, July, Hwasin and those guys.. only jaedong is a real threat skillwise.
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On June 12 2008 03:02 raga4ka wrote:
Let me explain it to you actually Hwasin has a better TvZ then Flash and Mind's is a little bit weaker but almost the same , 2nd those were Bo1 PL game in Bo5 JD usually kills . The fact that Hwasin beat JD in one game doesn't mean that Flash can too maybe he can maybe he can't but that is Bo1. Now if i may have your attention in Bo5 Hwasin has more of a chance beating JD then Flash that fact is backed up with Flash's non standard play vs him in both OSL and MSL and GSI , which tells that he is not confidant faseing JD on some map and if he doesn't have a plan he will lose - MSL , back then don't know how much he is improved now . Hwasin on the other hand was the best TvZ in 2007 and he is not scared of JD's late game skills . So if JD kills Hwasin in the next round he will most likely demolish Flash too , anyway after 1 week we will see if JD is the GOD OF DESTRUCTION and the legend killer .
Man, Flash is way too good, you can't compare him to Hwasin imo. Flash is just smarter than everyone else, that's why he's so good. I really don't care what the statistics say about his TvZ, the guy has the best starcraft mind in the world right now, so I'd put him above Hwasin in every MU.
This is like when sAviOr was in his prime, you had to put the guy above everyone else in every MU, even ZvZ.
It is pretty cool that you still think that JD is the godly legend killer, you are a loyal fan my friend.. He has definitely been slipping a bit of late though.
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On June 12 2008 05:52 JoxxOr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 05:19 B1nary wrote:
I just don't see him losing. Right now, he's looking even better than sAviOr in his prime since he doesn't have a weak match up. I can't think of anyone except MAYBE Jaedong who can take him down. Did you even watch pro starcraft when savior played?.. With that comment I'll guess my theory is correct To add my opinion in the OP. I hope he does not win one tournament this year, he is one of the most boring players in the world and I've still not forgiven him for his 2 cheeses against bisu, i hope Karma slices his throat (nah, but...). But in the shape he's in right now it makes me wonder how he could lose in both tournaments. I think he will have an easier run in OSL UNTIL he meets the god of war also known as July. Where he will face his inner demons and get owned like the little baby he really is. In all fanboyism, I think this is a flashback from last year where an old champion (NaDa) all suddenly came back from nowhere to advance to the finals and beat the GOD OF ZERG sAviOr. The difference is that this time it's not NaDa, it's July!  So be ready bandwagon guys, Bo5 Flash vs July plix
What do you mean.. sAviOr beat NaDa 3-1 in the OSL finals.
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On June 12 2008 06:51 cujo2k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 05:52 JoxxOr wrote:On June 12 2008 05:19 B1nary wrote:
I just don't see him losing. Right now, he's looking even better than sAviOr in his prime since he doesn't have a weak match up. I can't think of anyone except MAYBE Jaedong who can take him down. Did you even watch pro starcraft when savior played?.. With that comment I'll guess my theory is correct To add my opinion in the OP. I hope he does not win one tournament this year, he is one of the most boring players in the world and I've still not forgiven him for his 2 cheeses against bisu, i hope Karma slices his throat (nah, but...). But in the shape he's in right now it makes me wonder how he could lose in both tournaments. I think he will have an easier run in OSL UNTIL he meets the god of war also known as July. Where he will face his inner demons and get owned like the little baby he really is. In all fanboyism, I think this is a flashback from last year where an old champion (NaDa) all suddenly came back from nowhere to advance to the finals and beat the GOD OF ZERG sAviOr. The difference is that this time it's not NaDa, it's July! So be ready bandwagon guys, Bo5 Flash vs July plix What do you mean.. sAviOr beat NaDa 3-1 in the OSL finals.
qft and also july is too fat and slow, dont get your hopes up.
and how is flash boring? everything he does is perfection
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On June 12 2008 06:51 cujo2k wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 05:52 JoxxOr wrote:On June 12 2008 05:19 B1nary wrote:
I just don't see him losing. Right now, he's looking even better than sAviOr in his prime since he doesn't have a weak match up. I can't think of anyone except MAYBE Jaedong who can take him down. Did you even watch pro starcraft when savior played?.. With that comment I'll guess my theory is correct To add my opinion in the OP. I hope he does not win one tournament this year, he is one of the most boring players in the world and I've still not forgiven him for his 2 cheeses against bisu, i hope Karma slices his throat (nah, but...). But in the shape he's in right now it makes me wonder how he could lose in both tournaments. I think he will have an easier run in OSL UNTIL he meets the god of war also known as July. Where he will face his inner demons and get owned like the little baby he really is. In all fanboyism, I think this is a flashback from last year where an old champion (NaDa) all suddenly came back from nowhere to advance to the finals and beat the GOD OF ZERG sAviOr. The difference is that this time it's not NaDa, it's July! So be ready bandwagon guys, Bo5 Flash vs July plix What do you mean.. sAviOr beat NaDa 3-1 in the OSL finals.
Oh sorry, i suck -.-
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Flash is not boring, unless you are tired of him turtling or beating your favorites.
How many times do we ever see him use BC in TvT?
I voted both MSL and OSL. I dont think he takes it that seriously.
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United States1655 Posts
On June 12 2008 06:04 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 03:02 raga4ka wrote:On June 12 2008 02:39 darktreb wrote:On June 11 2008 23:59 IdrA wrote:On June 11 2008 23:23 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
after watching flash thrash every other competent player in the world do you honestly still think hes not good in standard play? I think flash is to bisu as jaedong is to savior, in other words - flash will always beat jaedong whenever they meet, but he'll eventually get crushed by a newcomer... The sc circle lol didnt say he wasnt good in standard play as he most obviously is. just said in standard games vs jaedong jaedong has outplayed him every time. also, jaedong beat him in the only bo5 series they played 3-1, only losing to mech on katrina. flash beat him with a sunken break and mech 2-1 (losing a straight up game) in osl and won vs him in the gsi 2-1 all 3 games being cheese from one side or another. Idra you obviously know and see more about the game than I do but I'm surprised to see you say this. After watching players like Mind and Hwasin systematically take down (demolish) Jaedong in recent games on the current map pool, I was of the opinion that Flash would be able to do it even more easily. I don't think there's anything that Mind or Hwasin do better than Flash right now (that's just my opinion of course). Are there things you've seen in Flash's (or Jaedong's/Mind's/Hwasin's) play that would lead you to think otherwise? Let me explain it to you actually Hwasin has a better TvZ then Flash and Mind's is a little bit weaker but almost the same. Hwasin's TvZ better than Flash's? Does anyone else here really believe this?
Hwasin used to be pretty much good at only one matchup: TvZ. While I know that Flash's TvP and TvT are leagues above Hwasin's, I believe Hwasin's TvZ is on par, if not better then Flash's.
Hwasin is 58-29 TvZ (he took Savior in his prime to a game 5) and Flash is 21-11- Flash has less games and an inferior win percentage. I also think that Hwasin's bio control is a lot stronger than Flash's.
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On June 12 2008 06:04 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 03:02 raga4ka wrote:On June 12 2008 02:39 darktreb wrote:On June 11 2008 23:59 IdrA wrote:On June 11 2008 23:23 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
after watching flash thrash every other competent player in the world do you honestly still think hes not good in standard play? I think flash is to bisu as jaedong is to savior, in other words - flash will always beat jaedong whenever they meet, but he'll eventually get crushed by a newcomer... The sc circle lol didnt say he wasnt good in standard play as he most obviously is. just said in standard games vs jaedong jaedong has outplayed him every time. also, jaedong beat him in the only bo5 series they played 3-1, only losing to mech on katrina. flash beat him with a sunken break and mech 2-1 (losing a straight up game) in osl and won vs him in the gsi 2-1 all 3 games being cheese from one side or another. Idra you obviously know and see more about the game than I do but I'm surprised to see you say this. After watching players like Mind and Hwasin systematically take down (demolish) Jaedong in recent games on the current map pool, I was of the opinion that Flash would be able to do it even more easily. I don't think there's anything that Mind or Hwasin do better than Flash right now (that's just my opinion of course). Are there things you've seen in Flash's (or Jaedong's/Mind's/Hwasin's) play that would lead you to think otherwise? Let me explain it to you actually Hwasin has a better TvZ then Flash and Mind's is a little bit weaker but almost the same. Hwasin's TvZ better than Flash's? Does anyone else here really believe this?
yes
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On June 12 2008 06:14 Hyperionnn wrote:THAT'S MY HOPE GO  CAVEMAN!
Rock #1
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On June 12 2008 06:04 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2008 03:02 raga4ka wrote:On June 12 2008 02:39 darktreb wrote:On June 11 2008 23:59 IdrA wrote:On June 11 2008 23:23 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
after watching flash thrash every other competent player in the world do you honestly still think hes not good in standard play? I think flash is to bisu as jaedong is to savior, in other words - flash will always beat jaedong whenever they meet, but he'll eventually get crushed by a newcomer... The sc circle lol didnt say he wasnt good in standard play as he most obviously is. just said in standard games vs jaedong jaedong has outplayed him every time. also, jaedong beat him in the only bo5 series they played 3-1, only losing to mech on katrina. flash beat him with a sunken break and mech 2-1 (losing a straight up game) in osl and won vs him in the gsi 2-1 all 3 games being cheese from one side or another. Idra you obviously know and see more about the game than I do but I'm surprised to see you say this. After watching players like Mind and Hwasin systematically take down (demolish) Jaedong in recent games on the current map pool, I was of the opinion that Flash would be able to do it even more easily. I don't think there's anything that Mind or Hwasin do better than Flash right now (that's just my opinion of course). Are there things you've seen in Flash's (or Jaedong's/Mind's/Hwasin's) play that would lead you to think otherwise? Let me explain it to you actually Hwasin has a better TvZ then Flash and Mind's is a little bit weaker but almost the same. Hwasin's TvZ better than Flash's? Does anyone else here really believe this?
Look at Hwasin's TvZ's VODs after he defeated Savior in Longinus in saviors prime last year.
You'll see what we are talking about.
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Darktreb is a newcomer warcraft player, he deosn't know anything about Hwasin defeating Savior in his prime or about Hwasin's rise to power in the 06' era. Yes I remember Darktreb from the SK forums
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EPT
