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Rainalcar
Croatia550 Posts
On September 27 2026 09:38 PurpleWave wrote: From Pluto's creator, for an older version of the model: ![[image loading]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/521038862160625665/1540808636522041504/image.png?ex=6ab971dd&is=6ab8205d&hm=41df6f835b13d09d59e994eb3628166aa3a1dc47184ddd7b0b0d47aec8f98085&=&format=webp&quality=lossless) So that's: T >>> Z Z >> P T > P but you can also see the matchups moving sharply at times so no guarantee that's where it is today. Looooooool this is hilariously similar to human Vis human imbalance we have! | ||
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TMNT
3369 Posts
On September 27 2026 19:48 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: how did it break 5 base lurker field plague/swarm spam on 3 base? i thought for sure it had a ninja at 11 Yeah that push is mind boggling, but of course it can only be done by a machine. It's a max vs max PvZ push with the P on 1 base mining and 2 1 upgrade and doesn't understand what a dark swarm is. Yet it plows through a lurker field and up a ramp destroying everything Zerg has. For human play, when Z is maxed out and takes half the map, you settle for a split map game and tries to take your half (if you can). Pushing is never an option. Maybe this is what people mean when they say Protoss players have to play better to beat the Zerg in ASL  | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines925 Posts
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines925 Posts
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Nuclear
Bulgaria18 Posts
Actually the bot is available in github. https://github.com/tscmoo/pluto I couldn't find it's source, but there is a dll, that when started through BWAPI and Starcraft 1.16.1, can be run locally. So, I decided to let the bot play against itself As like vs humans, this results in very dynamic matches. Also, each match has it's own flow. I have uploaded two example TvPs, Pluto vs Pluto https://www.mediafire.com/folder/yraug5zi72f8w/PlutoVsPluto The map is Luna, just for the example One limitation is that BWAPI works only on Starcraft 1.16.1, but as I tested, the replays from the bot game are playable in Starcraft Remastered. If you are interested, I can make more PlutoVsPluto games, on modern maps and with different matchups. | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4126 Posts
On September 27 2026 20:10 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: maybe it had good zealot spread to minimize lurker splash, hard to see under dark swarm without switching to carbot when humans send armies to attack - we use control groups and units inevitably will clump and receive ton of splash from lurkers AI attacks in a very wide spread (using what we call multiple screen army spread) so the damage from lurkers is less and then its also microing every unit to minimize damage and maximize attack the max vs max is ridiculously one sided in this case | ||
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vndestiny
Singapore3472 Posts
On September 27 2026 20:05 TMNT wrote: Yeah that push is mind boggling, but of course it can only be done by a machine. It's a max vs max PvZ push with the P on 1 base mining and 2 1 upgrade and doesn't understand what a dark swarm is. Yet it plows through a lurker field and up a ramp destroying everything Zerg has. For human play, when Z is maxed out and takes half the map, you settle for a split map game and tries to take your half (if you can). Pushing is never an option. Maybe this is what people mean when they say Protoss players have to play better to beat the Zerg in ASL Incredible burst vs Effort. Against 200 supply dark swarm plague lurker field without reaver even, and it smash through + penetrate left base egg-blocked high ground. With only 1 base remain income. Crazy. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines925 Posts
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vndestiny
Singapore3472 Posts
It (almost) never dies against hydra burst, and corsair zeal goon timing attack is incredibly hard to hold. Feel like those at least can be studied by human Protoss. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines925 Posts
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TMNT
3369 Posts
On September 27 2026 21:42 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: maybe protoss players need to try to spread zealots better against lurker? it won't be as effective as pluto but its better than letting units clump up and die to lurker splash. i imagine former sc2 pros like TY who are used to doing baneling splits would be good at it, the box click micro is essentially the same Yeah but it's not just that. Pluto's storms hit like crack. Like every storm is fucking on point, and its HTs just wiggle through the army so smoothly to avoid being sniped, and its Observers don't die cheaply, and the reinforcement is relentless (while Gateway productions don't miss a beat). Clashing head-on with the AI's army is a no-no for humans regardless of matchup. Best and Mini lost all their PvT games so far (Mini could only grab a win by cheesing it). Even the economy of a free 12 Nexus opening is worthless in stopping the Tank MM push. Snow's guerilla style is the only viable option but only he can do that obviously. And that's also why Soma and Effort are staring to take some games off it thanks to the Zerg's shenanigans that the AI doesn't really know how to respond. | ||
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TMNT
3369 Posts
On September 27 2026 22:36 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: anyone have any links to pluto holding 973 and winning the game? There's one or two in the series vs Soma yesterday which is in the membership-only video posted in the previous page. Cannon placement is garbarge and there's only 3 cannons anyway, but probe pull is next level, then it counters with dragoon zealot and just kill everything. | ||
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TT1
Canada10084 Posts
On September 27 2026 21:54 vndestiny wrote: Late game army control non-withstanding, but Pluto PvZ early mid game is incredibly strong. It (almost) never dies against hydra burst, and corsair zeal goon timing attack is incredibly hard to hold. Feel like those at least can be studied by human Protoss. study what? BW is a game of attention and it has an unlimited amount of it.. its not the same process, different worlds funny enough the closest we have to its overall playstyle is Snow/Mini, Flash is more of a bot than this AI tbh, this AI is like a super degen version of Mini and Snow with unlimited attention | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23420 Posts
Lurker contain into mutas, mass expansions, and gas units.. it was his signature in ZvT more than ZvP though Actually in ZvT as well.. not going for muta ling army crush that I saw, just mostly mutas, drones, expansions | ||
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TT1
Canada10084 Posts
but ofc the way it thinks about builds is completely different, the thought process is different for the stuff it's doing so the outcome is always gonna be different even if u try to copy it, unless u limit it to human capabilities, basically comparing apples to oranges | ||
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