On September 27 2026 06:23 Slayer91 wrote: Like I don't understand the TvZ 1/1/1 marine/tank/vulture push, if any normal person does it, can't it die to basically 12 speedlings? You don't even need the muta the pop except to kill the one wraith
I've tried ling all-ining the 111 push. The vulture has near perfect micro so you'll lose a few lings trying to catch it, if you catch it at all. Then the tank and 10 marines have perfect targeting and your lings do far less damage than you think. It's hard to believe how ineffective lings are against perfect targeting.
It'd be near impossible for a human to pull off that 111 strat against a ling flood, but I would probably just sunk up and cut off reinforcements with Mutas since Mutas actually work against humans.
I've had a thought - if the Pluto T decided it needs a wraith in the marine/tank push, it must have had some problem with some kind of Pluto Z mass speedling strategy against it, right? Otherwise it would use that money on a second fact or barracks (surely more marines and medics is far better against any muta build here), the wraith must be to punish any builds that don't go into spire and have no anti air?
Or does it literally want highground vision as Pluto Z likes to defend on high ground and stab with mutas - I saw one game Pluto T v Z where the mutas just killed all SCVs while defending the main ramp with sunkens
I've thought about this as well. Vulture plays the pivotal anti-ling role. Wraith comes out too late and its damage is too weak to defend against mass lings. However, Wraith actually does many things. It kills misplaced Overlords, threatens to kill Drones if your Mutas counter, and generally provides good vision. Having to leave behind one or two Mutas for defense when you only have 5, 6 is a pretty big deal. As you mentioned, it also punishes builds without anti-air.
I still don't have a good answer to this build. There just isn't enough larvae off 2h.
On September 27 2026 13:27 namkraft wrote: Hi Mods,
Isn't it time to give Pluto its own Liquipedia page, so we can link to him as a player for game posting?
It's a bit complicated because we already have a page for the author and their other AI; I think it would make more sense for the author to decide how they want to present their bot. They've already been robbed of enough agency already.
Soma is currently playing against Pluto, and the score is 2-2. However, he should probably practice ZvZ with Pluto, since he's facing Jaedong tomorrow.
On September 27 2026 08:23 p4fn2w wrote: Does anyone have the full stats for Pluto racial matchups (TvZ, ZvT, TvP, PvT, ZvP, PvZ, etc)?
From Pluto's creator, for an older version of the model:
So that's: T >>> Z Z >> P T > P
but you can also see the matchups moving sharply at times so no guarantee that's where it is today.
not only the 70 million replay statistics, but also eloboard stats and pluto stats prove that zvt is a worse matchup than pvz
i'm gonna crash out next time someone says defilers should be nerfed
:D to be fair defiler can be really frustrating when you dont have the tools to deal with it. For example terrans that basically cant attack cuz there 1 single lurker under the swarm and no irradiates left. But in that case for example 2 firebats could easily fix that issue.
normal protoss computer on remastered is so much better at dealing with defilers, it will frame perfectly feedback any defiler the moment it consumes a zergling
On September 27 2026 08:23 p4fn2w wrote: Does anyone have the full stats for Pluto racial matchups (TvZ, ZvT, TvP, PvT, ZvP, PvZ, etc)?
From Pluto's creator, for an older version of the model:
So that's: T >>> Z Z >> P T > P
but you can also see the matchups moving sharply at times so no guarantee that's where it is today.
not only the 70 million replay statistics, but also eloboard stats and pluto stats prove that zvt is a worse matchup than pvz
i'm gonna crash out next time someone says defilers should be nerfed
We can't really take Pluto's mass games as like some sort of truth. We're just at the very, very beginning of AI mapping out the game. (Not that I disagree about the ZvT, PvZ being unfavored)
The only thing for certain right now is the thing we all knew; that macro, micro and multitasking without physical constraints change how the game can be played.
For everybody who hasn't got to play Pluto yet (or tried the many other cool bots), Schnail ai projectjust dropped an update that will bring Pluto to you, in their thread.
Soma wasnt streaming yesterday so there is only the obs video.
if you watch carefully you can see that in situations where 2 workers would be mining the same mineral pluto manually switches them so it probably is mining significantly more efficiently than a human
edit: this is probably why it makes less workers too
On September 27 2026 08:23 p4fn2w wrote: Does anyone have the full stats for Pluto racial matchups (TvZ, ZvT, TvP, PvT, ZvP, PvZ, etc)?
From Pluto's creator, for an older version of the model:
So that's: T >>> Z Z >> P T > P
but you can also see the matchups moving sharply at times so no guarantee that's where it is today.
not only the 70 million replay statistics, but also eloboard stats and pluto stats prove that zvt is a worse matchup than pvz
i'm gonna crash out next time someone says defilers should be nerfed
We can't really take Pluto's mass games as like some sort of truth. We're just at the very, very beginning of AI mapping out the game. (Not that I disagree about the ZvT, PvZ being unfavored)
The only thing for certain right now is the thing we all knew; that macro, micro and multitasking without physical constraints change how the game can be played.
Pluto Z doesn't know about dark swarm BTW so ZvT winrates might become much better when it realizes it can go hive behind lurkers or something
Looks like it's trying to fight bio with just mutas right now
EPT
Tscmoo![[image loading]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/521038862160625665/1540808636522041504/image.png?ex=6ab971dd&is=6ab8205d&hm=41df6f835b13d09d59e994eb3628166aa3a1dc47184ddd7b0b0d47aec8f98085&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
