On January 29 2023 19:34 RowdierBob wrote: The state of Protoss in BW is pretty grim atm. Beyond Snow, Mini, Bisu and Best the quality is really poor.
Honestly if you strip the other races down they're not more healthy either, ASL usually ends up with high terran population and most of them end up being fodder wins for better zerg and protoss players.
Terran really only has Light Rush and Royal.
Zerg may be healthier in that aspect but most of the players forms are like phases of the moon, they have either ridiculous hot streaks which break into constant middling results mostly due to zvz eliminations.
Especially true for zero soulkey and i basically described Soma.
Prior to season 14 I'd say you'd be sleeping on JyJ with that comment but currently I feel he's fallen a little bit and is now closer to Mong, Ssak and Sharp and further away from Royal, Rush and Light.
For zerg I am surprised Effort didn't play Qualifiers. He has been performing well in proleagues.
On the top top level (think solid major proleague) Zerg slightly outnumber the Terran and Protoss
It's at the level right below (K League w occasional appearances in major proleague) that Protoss takes a nosedive. Unlike Terran who have a lot of borderline players (JyJ, Sharp, Ssak, Mong, Mind, Barracks), Protoss has only Shuttle and Stork with occasionally Free and Rain who are unreliable due to motivation or health or both. It's really telling that Motive and YSC can almost always nail down a spot in K League - there just isn't that much competition for Protoss slots.
It was even worse for Protoss about a year ago when Rain was inactive, Stork "retired" and tried Youtube stuff, Free was in and out injured, and Bisu disappeared for coingate
Effort has announced he can't play in ASL due to his wrists not being able to hold up in bo5/bo7 sets
On January 29 2023 20:57 arbiter_md wrote: Any list with notable names that failed to qualify?
Rain and EffOrt did not even sign up, so both are notable absentees.
Known names who went but lost in qualifiers, and how: + Show Spoiler +
Rain Did not sign up.
EffOrt Did not sign up.
Pusan Lost 1-2 to an unknown player on day 1 (이호열), and then lost 0-2 to Protoss player Rock on day 2 (who was in turn promptly wrecked by Jaedong).
Piano Lost 1-2 to an unknown player on day 1 (강현우), and then he beat Modesty on day 2 before losing 0-2 to Sacsri in the finals.
ggaemo beat Calm, but then lost 0-2 to Zerg player ZerO in the finals of day 1 (thus ZerO qualified for ASL), then lost to a Zerg player called Yerim2 on day 2 in the semifinals. I didn't see the games, but ZvZ is volatile. HyuN eventually beat Yerrim2 2-0 in the finals to advance to ASL. Basically Yerim just played ZvZ gatekeeper for ggaemo before falling to Hyun of all people. I feel bad for Gasp Zerg, but man... not a good showing.
Calm is barely notable these days, but he played and lost, first to ggaemo and then to Chinese player Mihu.
free lost 0-2 to Mong on day 1, and lost 1-2 to Zerg player ZeLoT on day 2. RIP dragon legacy.
Horang2 lost 0-2 to Light on day 1, then he got 2-0'd by an unknown player (김성민) on day 2. 김성민 proceeded to make it all the way to the finals only to get dupstered by sSak.
Movie is barely a notable player any more, but he went 0-2 against Protoss player SRiCH on day 1 and then 0-2 against Scan on day 2.
Scan lost 1-2 to sSak on day 1 (the whole group was just a sSak/Scan/JyJ TvT slugfest), and then lost 0-2 to Shine on day 2.
BaBy / TY lost 1-2 in the finals of day 1 against Best. He then lost 1-2 in the finals of day 2 against Hiya. Not bad for someone who hasn't been practicing, but also not surprising.
Leta lost 0-2 to Soma on day 1, and 0-2 to Stork on day 2, both times in the finals of his group. Tough luck.
Foreign players Dewalt and Ziggy also signed up. Dewalt lost to Soma and Ruin (oof, tough matches), and Ziggy lost to Mong on day 1 and some unknown player on day 2.
Liquipedia also says that Last played on day 1, but this is incorrect. It's just someone with the same name as him.
On January 29 2023 19:34 RowdierBob wrote: The state of Protoss in BW is pretty grim atm. Beyond Snow, Mini, Bisu and Best the quality is really poor.
Honestly if you strip the other races down they're not more healthy either, ASL usually ends up with high terran population and most of them end up being fodder wins for better zerg and protoss players.
Terran really only has Light Rush and Royal.
Zerg may be healthier in that aspect but most of the players forms are like phases of the moon, they have either ridiculous hot streaks which break into constant middling results mostly due to zvz eliminations.
Especially true for zero soulkey and i basically described Soma.
I disagree. From what I see Protoss only has 1 competitive player atm (Snow) while the other 3 on that list are just cannon fodder. Based on the last season of KCM racewars (which is not a starleague but still competitive) Mini, Bisu, Best and Shuttle get stomped by all the other top 4 T and Z.
On January 29 2023 20:57 arbiter_md wrote: Any list with notable names that failed to qualify?
Rain and EffOrt did not even sign up, so both are notable absentees.
Known names who went but lost in qualifiers, and how: + Show Spoiler +
Rain Did not sign up.
EffOrt Did not sign up.
Pusan Lost 1-2 to an unknown player on day 1 (이호열), and then lost 0-2 to Protoss player Rock on day 2 (who was in turn promptly wrecked by Jaedong).
Piano Lost 1-2 to an unknown player on day 1 (강현우), and then he beat Modesty on day 2 before losing 0-2 to Sacsri in the finals.
ggaemo beat Calm, but then lost 0-2 to Zerg player ZerO in the finals of day 1 (thus ZerO qualified for ASL), then lost to a Zerg player called Yerim2 on day 2 in the semifinals. I didn't see the games, but ZvZ is volatile. HyuN eventually beat Yerrim2 2-0 in the finals to advance to ASL. Basically Yerim just played ZvZ gatekeeper for ggaemo before falling to Hyun of all people. I feel bad for Gasp Zerg, but man... not a good showing.
Calm is barely notable these days, but he played and lost, first to ggaemo and then to Chinese player Mihu.
free lost 0-2 to Mong on day 1, and lost 1-2 to Zerg player ZeLoT on day 2. RIP dragon legacy.
Horang2 lost 0-2 to Light on day 1, then he got 2-0'd by an unknown player (김성민) on day 2. 김성민 proceeded to make it all the way to the finals only to get dupstered by sSak.
Movie is barely a notable player any more, but he went 0-2 against Protoss player SRiCH on day 1 and then 0-2 against Scan on day 2.
Scan lost 1-2 to sSak on day 1 (the whole group was just a sSak/Scan/JyJ TvT slugfest), and then lost 0-2 to Shine on day 2.
BaBy / TY lost 1-2 in the finals of day 1 against Best. He then lost 1-2 in the finals of day 2 against Hiya. Not bad for someone who hasn't been practicing, but also not surprising.
Leta lost 0-2 to Soma on day 1, and 0-2 to Stork on day 2, both times in the finals of his group. Tough luck.
Foreign players Dewalt and Ziggy also signed up. Dewalt lost to Soma and Ruin (oof, tough matches), and Ziggy lost to Mong on day 1 and some unknown player on day 2.
Liquipedia also says that Last played on day 1, but this is incorrect. It's just someone with the same name as him.
I think 김성민 is Promise. Artosis plays him and calls him a "high amateur" here:
On January 29 2023 19:34 RowdierBob wrote: The state of Protoss in BW is pretty grim atm. Beyond Snow, Mini, Bisu and Best the quality is really poor.
Honestly if you strip the other races down they're not more healthy either, ASL usually ends up with high terran population and most of them end up being fodder wins for better zerg and protoss players.
Terran really only has Light Rush and Royal.
Zerg may be healthier in that aspect but most of the players forms are like phases of the moon, they have either ridiculous hot streaks which break into constant middling results mostly due to zvz eliminations.
Especially true for zero soulkey and i basically described Soma.
Prior to season 14 I'd say you'd be sleeping on JyJ with that comment but currently I feel he's fallen a little bit and is now closer to Mong, Ssak and Sharp and further away from Royal, Rush and Light.
For zerg I am surprised Effort didn't play Qualifiers. He has been performing well in proleagues.
On the top top level (think solid major proleague) Zerg slightly outnumber the Terran and Protoss
It's at the level right below (K League w occasional appearances in major proleague) that Protoss takes a nosedive. Unlike Terran who have a lot of borderline players (JyJ, Sharp, Ssak, Mong, Mind, Barracks), Protoss has only Shuttle and Stork with occasionally Free and Rain who are unreliable due to motivation or health or both. It's really telling that Motive and YSC can almost always nail down a spot in K League - there just isn't that much competition for Protoss slots.
It was even worse for Protoss about a year ago when Rain was inactive, Stork "retired" and tried Youtube stuff, Free was in and out injured, and Bisu disappeared for coingate
Effort has announced he can't play in ASL due to his wrists not being able to hold up in bo5/bo7 sets
I think this is fairly spot on. Terran and Zerg have a stronger middle tier. There are no good protoss players once you get past the main four (Mini, Bisu, Best, Snow). And TBH, those four seem to struggle against the top T and Z players in some recent events (KCM, UBE etc).
I hope I'm wrong but we might get to the ro8 this year with no protoss players.
On January 29 2023 20:57 arbiter_md wrote: Any list with notable names that failed to qualify?
Rain and EffOrt did not even sign up, so both are notable absentees.
Known names who went but lost in qualifiers, and how: + Show Spoiler +
Rain Did not sign up.
EffOrt Did not sign up.
Pusan Lost 1-2 to an unknown player on day 1 (이호열), and then lost 0-2 to Protoss player Rock on day 2 (who was in turn promptly wrecked by Jaedong).
Piano Lost 1-2 to an unknown player on day 1 (강현우), and then he beat Modesty on day 2 before losing 0-2 to Sacsri in the finals.
ggaemo beat Calm, but then lost 0-2 to Zerg player ZerO in the finals of day 1 (thus ZerO qualified for ASL), then lost to a Zerg player called Yerim2 on day 2 in the semifinals. I didn't see the games, but ZvZ is volatile. HyuN eventually beat Yerrim2 2-0 in the finals to advance to ASL. Basically Yerim just played ZvZ gatekeeper for ggaemo before falling to Hyun of all people. I feel bad for Gasp Zerg, but man... not a good showing.
Calm is barely notable these days, but he played and lost, first to ggaemo and then to Chinese player Mihu.
free lost 0-2 to Mong on day 1, and lost 1-2 to Zerg player ZeLoT on day 2. RIP dragon legacy.
Horang2 lost 0-2 to Light on day 1, then he got 2-0'd by an unknown player (김성민) on day 2. 김성민 proceeded to make it all the way to the finals only to get dupstered by sSak.
Movie is barely a notable player any more, but he went 0-2 against Protoss player SRiCH on day 1 and then 0-2 against Scan on day 2.
Scan lost 1-2 to sSak on day 1 (the whole group was just a sSak/Scan/JyJ TvT slugfest), and then lost 0-2 to Shine on day 2.
BaBy / TY lost 1-2 in the finals of day 1 against Best. He then lost 1-2 in the finals of day 2 against Hiya. Not bad for someone who hasn't been practicing, but also not surprising.
Leta lost 0-2 to Soma on day 1, and 0-2 to Stork on day 2, both times in the finals of his group. Tough luck.
Foreign players Dewalt and Ziggy also signed up. Dewalt lost to Soma and Ruin (oof, tough matches), and Ziggy lost to Mong on day 1 and some unknown player on day 2.
Liquipedia also says that Last played on day 1, but this is incorrect. It's just someone with the same name as him.
I think 김성민 is Promise. Artosis plays him and calls him a "high amateur" here:
I made a list of notable players with age profile with respective tiers (relatively ofc). Clearly Protoss are the weakest among all tiers.
Their tier 1 players (major proleague materials) wouldn't collectively beat their counterparts in T and Z (ASL and KCM records show).
There's not a clear difference between tier 2 and 3, but here you can see where it gets really dire for Protoss. Not only do they lack in numbers and quality, the age of the players doesn't look good. Stork and Free are the oldest to play the last ASL and this one. And it's kind of shocking that next year that title will belong to Bisu and Best.
Tier 4 is not really relevant anyway, but you can see they're either inactive (Movie, Horang2, Noob...) or are just there because there's no one else (YSC, Motive). The only hope is Ruin and Dear can improve but I wouldn't bet on that.
Also kind of mental that Flash is in the younger side of the player pool eh?
Now actually looking at this, Terran is kind of scary isn't it? Ssak and Mong can be moved up to tier 2 and Barracks is improving and their tier 4 players are very young. Even Zerg can't compete with that.
Yeah, Protoss has been struggling for a bit. I hope Snow can finally take one though. A two time finalist and the guy to break Flash's winstreak really ought to have a trophy.
Other than him, Mini is obviously a champion but super inconsistent, and I really can't see Bisu or especially Best making it to the finals.
On January 31 2023 05:14 HOLYBATS wrote: BW pro scene is broken. They care viewership more than tournaments.
There is no professional scene.
BW players are literally streamers who make most of their money from non-tournaments. There are no pro-teams or sponsors paying them a salary. They need viewers to donate to them to survive.
This is why I can't get mad at the Starcraft university system because it gave BW pros a chance to make very good money while doing something related to BW. People like Rain only came back to play BW (and thus ASL) bc of the university scene.
That being said, ASL has enough prestige that players who want the glory of being a champion are going to chase after it, and the prize money is decent
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/wgaitLp.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/EMmJBbT.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nhrMEhY.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/lewstJA.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/KYh7quO.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/3Jh1n6f.jpg)
