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Hello Guys,
After talking with some smart members of our community, I started having doubts about my skills of picking perfect maps for a tournament. I would like to know your opinion.
How do you like the BSL Season 16 map pool ?
![[image loading]](https://tl.net/staff/2Pacalypse/bsl/bsl16/mappool.jpg)
Poll: How do you like BSL16 Map pool?4 (11) 58% 3 (4) 21% 1 (3) 16% 5 (1) 5% 2 (0) 0% 19 total votes Your vote: How do you like BSL16 Map pool? (Vote): 5
(Vote): 4
(Vote): 3
(Vote): 2
(Vote): 1
I know it's very hard to meet everyone's expectations in that regard, that's why I would like to ask you to name your perfect map pool.
Please pick map pool which contains 7 maps:
2x - 2 player map
2x - 3 player map
3x - 4 player map
(There can be some changes in that rules, but no 7x 4 player map)
Your suggestion will help us with choosing a good map pool next season, so stay balanced!
Below your map picks please add:
A - it's perfectly balanced imo
B - I just love those maps
C - I'm  /  /  - and those maps seems balanced for me, I can't decide for other races
Please consider maps which are fairly balanced. It's ok to pick 1/2 old school / new maps - but most of the maps have to be balanced / tested and adjusted to current meta.
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I think your mappool is good.
I run into the same issues, there will always be people with different tastes in maps. I think it s good to have one or 2 new/weird maps to keep things fresh, and a few staple maps so people can pick that as loser s picks.
So in your list: sylphid, vermeer and CB would be staple maps. Vermeer s bit recent but pretty well received as far as I know. Those would be A.
Nemesis would fall in the weird-ish category, butter is pretty good for a 2p map: so those 2 A or B.
power bond and odyssey i m not sure. May be C? Or just pick one?
I find 3p maps difficult with balance, aside from sylphid (and tau cross, due to nostalgia), may be a single 3p map (sylphid?) and another 4p map instead like polypoid?
At BWCL, if that s any help for you, we are looking at the old map remaster project the map contest with a lot of interest. Some old maps, aside from mineral patches desogn, were pretty good so if those get fixed it may be an option, plus the nostalgia factor.
Edit: 1 to 5 which one is best, which is worst?
Personal pick: 2p: butter + eclipse (or odyssey)
3p: sylph (+tau cross?)
4p: vermeer, poly, CB and some funky map like gladiator or whiteout that you used a few seasons ago, i thought it was cool. You can switch CB or poly with another too, i dont mind.
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my view: instead Butter( i think imbalanced, and for me if even imbalanced too but have better 2 players map): Destination, Bloody Ridge,Eclipse,Match point( Eclipse ya boring but we see 100x better games as like on Butter).,,- Blue storm,-Paranoid Android,-Ride of valkyres or maybe these maps ''news from Minerals ( if make correct mineral place:D )
instead Power Bond: Athena,Medusa,Reap the storm.
Odyssey- this at least it might be interesting.
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Sylphid
Circuit Breaker
Gladiator
Vermeer
Overwatch
1 Community Map
1 Classic Map (Outsider, Medusa, Tornado , Chain Reaction , Outlier , etc )
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Sorry, this map pool is one of the worst in BSL
All maps are standard, balance and so boring (except Nemesis). I think you know BSL is league very competitive. There are some unbalanced maps will make drama, interesting, challenge and create a chance for 1, 2 race that didn't have high position in the last season.
map 2 players favor Protoss
map 3 players favor Protoss, Zerg
map 4 players favor Terran
Butter, Odyssey is similar 99%. Backdoor base from Odyssey has no much sense in most game.
Power Bond, Sylphid is similar 99%. Even 3rd base in Power Bond is taken easier than Sylphid.
In the last season, we had 3P 1Z in the semifinal. So map pool is in this season should be
1 map 2 players (Butter or Odyssey)
2 map 3 players (Sylphid and (3)White Dragons Valley or (3)Whiteout. Winter is coming)
4 map 4 players (Vermeer, Nemesis, Holy World, Desperado, Electric Circuit, Arcadia, (4)Avant Garde II, (4)Peppermint, (4)White Lies or some maps from New Worlds Map Contest III: Classics Remastered.
Flash: Everything is skill
(4)Avant Garde II
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/dTW5i55.jpg)
(4)Peppermint
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/3QzGVhW.jpg)
(4)White Lies
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/Z5j8GnH.jpg)
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On November 29 2022 01:08 bovienchien wrote:Sorry, this map pool is one of the worst in BSL All maps are standard, balance and so boring (except Nemesis). I think you know BSL is league very competitive. There are some unbalanced maps will make drama, interesting, challenge and create a chance for 1, 2 race that didn't have high position in the last season. map 2 players favor Protoss map 3 players favor Protoss, Zerg map 4 players favor Terran Butter, Odyssey is similar 99%. Backdoor base from Odyssey has no much sense in most game. Power Bond, Sylphid is similar 99%. Even 3rd base in Power Bond is taken easier than Sylphid. In the last season, we had 3P 1Z in the semifinal. So map pool is in this season should be 1 map 2 players (Butter or Odyssey) 2 map 3 players (Sylphid and (3)White Dragons Valley or (3)Whiteout. Winter is coming) 4 map 4 players (Vermeer, Nemesis, Holy World, Desperado, Electric Circuit, Arcadia, (4)Avant Garde II, (4)Peppermint, (4)White Lies or some maps from New Worlds Map Contest III: Classics Remastered. Flash: Everything is skill (4)Avant Garde II (4)Peppermint (4)White Lies
You say that every time. Unbalanced maps are good for fun leagues, not a sponsored event like BSL. One weird/interesting map is fine and fun, but we need the majority of maps to be balanced, well known and standard
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I'm a Zerg, I like the map pool besides nemesis.
I think Roadkill (4) would actually fit the meta very nicely with a Nat and close mineral only.
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Maps are fine. Power bond is the odd one out, but tolerable.
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I've mentioned this in the past in BSL discord but I will express my point of view here again.
Map pools should rely around 4p maps and be complemented with 1-2 two player maps and 1-2 three player maps. So in a 7 maps pool, there should be 4 four player maps + 3 of the rest (Same than last 4-5 ASL).
By having only 3 four player maps and with ban systems matches start revolving aroud the two-three player maps which removes variance from the game and favors P early game vs Zerg heavily with early scoutings and hatch blockages.
From the pool you posted I would definetly remove Powed Bond and add another 4p map, perhaps Allegro (Most balanced ZvT map I can remember of). I also would understand if people is bored with Circuit Breaker and would rather see some older classic 4p map.
From the 2p map options like Sziky mentioned earlier, Butter is quite hard for Zerg but I guess there has to be some detrimental maps for all races so I can live with that.
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Netherlands5188 Posts
You can NEVER please everyone. I think both players and viewers have an equal say. To me CB is like FS: extremely overplayed and I don't care to see it anymore.
A great map pool imo has at most one odd map. and it should not appear in Bo1 stages to avoid a random underdog from free winning against a renowned, hard working player. I'd be happy with any 2-2-3 combination. 2x2p, 2x3p, 3x4p maps seems most fair for the players. For my own entertainment I would rather see only 2x4p maps.
Maps: I just want to see fresh maps, both balanced and odd (imba). Meta needs to change to keep the game fresh, new maps incite meta to change.
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On November 29 2022 01:08 bovienchien wrote:Sorry, this map pool is one of the worst in BSL All maps are standard, balance and so boring (except Nemesis). I think you know BSL is league very competitive. There are some unbalanced maps will make drama, interesting, challenge and create a chance for 1, 2 race that didn't have high position in the last season. map 2 players favor Protoss map 3 players favor Protoss, Zerg map 4 players favor Terran Butter, Odyssey is similar 99%. Backdoor base from Odyssey has no much sense in most game. Power Bond, Sylphid is similar 99%. Even 3rd base in Power Bond is taken easier than Sylphid. In the last season, we had 3P 1Z in the semifinal. So map pool is in this season should be 1 map 2 players (Butter or Odyssey) 2 map 3 players (Sylphid and (3)White Dragons Valley or (3)Whiteout. Winter is coming) 4 map 4 players (Vermeer, Nemesis, Holy World, Desperado, Electric Circuit, Arcadia, (4)Avant Garde II, (4)Peppermint, (4)White Lies or some maps from New Worlds Map Contest III: Classics Remastered. Flash: Everything is skill (4)Avant Garde II (4)Peppermint (4)White Lies
All 3 of these maps in the photo are garbage… seems like maps from 2001 before anyone knew about making a simcity in sc. Where did you even find these? :D
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Nemesis and Odyssey are the two oddballs… they are just two maps that will be in the scene for one or two seasons and forgot about afterwards. They may not even be in the next ASL (early 2023) so we might be watching BSL16 on ‘older’ maps per say.
Odyssey has the third that is directly at the bottom of a large ramp that I’ve seen many players abuse and seems a bit broken to me.. other than that it has a decent feel to it, kinda feels like Peaks a little.
I’ve seen Terran pushes on Nemesis that definitely look broken. Whose idea was it to allow turrets and tanks on a cliff above the opponents main base and land a barracks to block the ramp..? :D I think we need more Terran maps but the shinanigans seems a bit crazy here.
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7 map map pool -
4 standard (2x 4p / 1x 3p / 1x 2p)
2 non-standard
1 "crazy"
I like to see good games but also see how the best foreigners adapt and plan around a bit of weirdness
BW has so many maps of any kind that it should be pretty easy to come up with a nice map lineup everytime there is a tournament going on.
As for this current BSL map pool, personally I think that -
- Butter should stay (standard)
- Odyssey should stay (non-standard)
- Neo Sylphid should stay (standard)
- Vermeer SE should stay (standard)
- Nemesis (ASL) should stay ("crazy")
- Power Bond should be replaced with Sky Bridge from the Team Think Quick mapping contest
- Circuit Breakers should be replaced with some other 4 player oldie (Jade/Ground Zero/Sniper Ridge/Tornado/Beltway)
Thanks for actually caring a lot, my man. Cheers  
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Sky Bridge -->
Jade --> ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/8f/Neo_Jade.jpg)
Ground Zero --> ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/e/e1/Neo_Ground_Zero.jpg)
Sniper Ridge --> ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/3/3e/New_Sniper_Ridge.jpg)
Tornado --> ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/2/23/NewTornado.jpg)
Beltway --> ![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/84/Neo_Beltway.jpg)
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Where is Fighting Spirit?
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Since the map pool is even a question there are 3 ways to go about it.
Use old maps - check old tournaments and ladder maps and recycle them. Anything from 2010 onward is doable.
Use recent maps - current ladder and ASL maps like Odyssey.
Hold a map making tournament region lock it to outside Korea like BSL itself. Make BSL for foreigners by foreigners.
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With unbalanced maps all we see is all-ins. For example, the island map in ASL12(?) forced the weaker race to win early on, as they stood no chance in the late-game, leading to one dimensional games. Yes, this forces crazy high risk strategies, but at the cost of everything else.
We don't need to handicap a race to make this game exciting to watch.
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I am an old person so i will be speaking mostly about old maps.
2p: Heartbreak Ridge, a good old dirty map where you can do a lot of tricks but most of them can be defended with no
problems if you know they are coming.
Blue Storm, a map with reversed stats, where P>Z>T>P. Also the meta for PvP and TvT is slightly off. Great
tournament opportunitys.
Third World, i think we put this map aside too fast. It is wired, but it gave really interesting matches.
3p: Tau Cross, just a really good and balanced old map.
Longinus, a map that mad history of bw, with Bisu starting the PvZ revolution in the finals agains Savior.
4p: *R-Point (possibly a new version where the ramp is closer to the netural), one of the biggest macro map of the past.
Othello, o boy how much i played this map and how much i have suffered until i learned all the tricks that can be
done on it.
I know it sounds a lot as a B. But I really thing this are great tournament maps.
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9/10
I really like this map pool. Rotating CB back in rather than FS/POLY and including Vermeer both great choices. Most times viewers are way too ambitious in their requests. Nemesis and Odyssey add enough flavor as non standard maps.
Overlapping with ladder pool as much as possible has a big influence in quality of games. Obviously you don't want the same exact pool, but having some maps where all players are quite familiar and have played them regularly helps.
Potential changes mentioned by others that I agree with:
-Add a 4 player map from the end of Kespa era (Jade would be my pick) and remove one of the 2/3 player maps. Jade is quite unique from the 4p maps currently selected.
-Sub in Blue Storm or LT remake if either is ready.
I just like these maps, I won't comment on balance.
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On November 30 2022 22:16 A.Alm wrote:
With unbalanced maps all we see is all-ins. For example, the island map in ASL12(?) forced the weaker race to win early on, as they stood no chance in the late-game, leading to one dimensional games. Yes, this forces crazy high risk strategies, but at the cost of everything else.
We don't need to handicap a race to make this game exciting to watch.
StarCraft is not simple as you think
You think like a child or something similar.
Gosu don't think like you do
Have you ever heard MIND GAME yet?
Do you know T usually takes 14CC, P usually takes 12Nexus in 2 players maps and Z usually takes 4 pool in 4 players maps?
I said we should give a chance for race that had low position in the last season. But a chance just is a chance, it doesn't insure the race will win if players have no enough skill.
Example: Do you know Z is the best race in Sparkle which map Z<T and Z<<<P?
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/2bx7MvL.png)
Don't let other people know what will you do in the game and in the life.
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Decidedly not true, stop posting garbage.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/581u4wi.png)
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For Korean events, maps should be good for Protoss and difficult (but not unplayable - the goal is balance) for Terran.
The reason I say this is that this year, and most years, most of the maps have a slight to significant advantage for Terran in one or two matchups, with the other matchup usually being even if it's not both.
At the same time for most maps, Protoss usually has a slight to significant disadvantage in one or two matchups, with the other matchup usually being even if it's not both.
There are exceptions, and there's usually at least one map that's good for every race for every seasonal map pool, but the goal should be to have a balanced map pool overall, with many balanced maps, and an equal amount of slightly imbalanced maps for each matchup.
Source: Sponbbang statistics of Korean sponsor matches
For non Korean events, we don't really need to consider race balance as much, and if we do, we don't really need to worry about helping Protoss out or keeping Terran down.
I agree with Metaphyzx:
Many standard maps
A few quirky maps
One or two outright crazy maps
That's what I like, for a major tournament like BSL There is also the viable option to use the ladder maps, so that people can git as gud as possible for the event..
Other, smaller tournaments can have their own themes, like only having crazy maps, only having old maps, or only having one single map.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/trhqfrrt9wa81.png?width=605&format=png&auto=webp&s=76b0e47a1c6319c942aeb3d1cd7cccf5509d5dcd)
Electric Circuit
