I'm gonna run another big tournament, and just like last time, there will be nice prizes, except this time you'll get the prizes much faster!
What I need from you, the community:
1. Post all of the good North American players you can think of, that are completely active, none of the players who won WCG 6 years ago, and you still ride their wang.
2. Label each player with a current skill ranking, between 1 & 10, 1 being the lowest skill, 10 being the highest skill. <b>Compare everyone to just foreigners, don't compare them to Korean, or the rankings will be much lower.</b>
3. Post the country they are from & which race they use.
4. After you're done with your list, list the best 3 players on the list that you think would do the best vs. pro gamers, and reasons, not just because "they're good".
5. Don't dare to spam this thread with any stupid comments. <hr> <b>Example</b>
Well, I don't know that many gamers in North America but this is how I'd rate them, and since you didn't give any sort of standard by which to rate 1-10, as in what a 7 would be, my list is inclusively proportional
Testie, Canada, 10, protoss Oldy, Canada, 8.5, protoss Jianfei, Canada, 7.5, protoss Nony, USA, 7, protoss Blackjack, USA, 7.5, terran Artosis, USA, 6, terran InControl, USA, 7, zerg G5, USA, 7, protoss Idra, USA, 7, terran (8 TvZ) Dinot, USA, 6, protoss Bandit[Light], Canada, 7, protoss
Note that 6,7 or whatever is not bad. It's just that if we're talking about North America inclusively, then Testie is the #1 North American player, meaning he's the 10, while no one else can really be a 10 cause in my opinion no one else in NA is as good as Testie.
There are a lot more people who I know are good but I don't have any experience with, like Schism[Light], some other [Light] guys, some other people
I'll add more as I think of them, but I'd think you'd probably know more players than anyone who might post wouldn't you PR?
On July 25 2007 01:07 HappyFeetO_O wrote: I'll add more as I think of them, but I'd think you'd probably know more players than anyone who might post wouldn't you PR?
Yes.
There's new people I don't know about, skill wise, so this is incase I don't miss anyone. Also good to get a combined rating for players, by people who watch a lot more recent replays of North American players than I do.
On July 25 2007 01:07 HappyFeetO_O wrote: Well, I don't know that many gamers in North America but this is how I'd rate them, and since you didn't give any sort of standard by which to rate 1-10, as in what a 7 would be, my list is inclusively proportional
Testie, Canada, 10, protoss Oldy, Canada, 8.5, protoss Jianfei, Canada, 7.5, protoss Nony, USA, 7, protoss Blackjack, USA, 7.5, terran Artosis, USA, 6, terran InControl, USA, 7, zerg G5, USA, 7, protoss Idra, USA, 7, terran (8 TvZ) Dinot, USA, 6, protoss Bandit[Light], Canada, 7, protoss
Note that 6,7 or whatever is not bad. It's just that if we're talking about North America inclusively, then Testie is the #1 North American player, meaning he's the 10, while no one else can really be a 10 cause in my opinion no one else in NA is as good as Testie.
There are a lot more people who I know are good but I don't have any experience with, like Schism[Light], some other [Light] guys, some other people
I'll add more as I think of them, but I'd think you'd probably know more players than anyone who might post wouldn't you PR?
Dino is much better than 6 man. So many good American players say that he can beat many good amatuer koreans and top americans .
Testie-canada-10?(not sure on this one) Chosen[Light]-usa-8 Nony-usa-8 Dino-usa-7 Nesh-usa-5 (maybe 6) Theognis-usa-6 G5-usa-8 Idra-usa-8 Machine-usa-5(maybe 6) LZGamer-usa-7.5 (i have to do it) NeO)ReSpOnSe-usa-5(maybe 6..or7....or possibly 8 (heh)) <----self-promotion > all InControl-usa-8 Iefnaij-Canada-9 TASTELESS!!-usa-5(maybe 6) Day[9]-usa-8 Assem-usa-8 Repent[Light]-usa-6.5 skew[media]-usa-7 Chill-canada-6.5 Freaky-canada-7 Nyoken-usa-8 Artosis-usa-7 Crayon-usa-7
Theres all the people i can think of atm if i think of anymore i'll add to the list...these are just my personal oppinions on the players from me playing them and watching reps...(tho i havent played some as of late they may have approved or gotten worse depending on the person)
err i think the people who would do best v pro gamers would be assem, testie, and Iefnaij (probably) becuz obviously testie and assem have *played* v progamers and iefnaij has played in televised tourneys so he has some experience....plus i have a soft spot in my heart for that cute little canadian
On July 25 2007 06:18 GiTM.Dante wrote: Chill-Canada-7 / 8 Dante-Canada-0 / 0.5 (roflsup)
oh yea forgot about chill and freaky i'll add them and dante your at least a solid .5!
I remember him doing quite well in a tournament that he participated in here not too long ago. I think it was the one where Draco won and there was alot of administrator problems. There was a big fuss about someone (cant remember whom) screwing others out of a spot? I honestly don't recall the name.
On July 25 2007 06:18 GiTM.Dante wrote: Chill-Canada-7 / 8 Dante-Canada-0 / 0.5 (roflsup)
oh yea forgot about chill and freaky i'll add them and dante your at least a solid .5!
I remember him doing quite well in a tournament that he participated in here not too long ago. I think it was the one where Draco won and there was alot of administrator problems. There was a big fuss about someone (cant remember whom) screwing others out of a spot? I honestly don't recall the name.
On July 25 2007 06:18 GiTM.Dante wrote: Chill-Canada-7 / 8 Dante-Canada-0 / 0.5 (roflsup)
oh yea forgot about chill and freaky i'll add them and dante your at least a solid .5!
I remember him doing quite well in a tournament that he participated in here not too long ago. I think it was the one where Draco won and there was alot of administrator problems. There was a big fuss about someone (cant remember whom) screwing others out of a spot? I honestly don't recall the name.
On July 25 2007 06:18 GiTM.Dante wrote: Chill-Canada-7 / 8 Dante-Canada-0 / 0.5 (roflsup)
oh yea forgot about chill and freaky i'll add them and dante your at least a solid .5!
I remember him doing quite well in a tournament that he participated in here not too long ago. I think it was the one where Draco won and there was alot of administrator problems. There was a big fuss about someone (cant remember whom) screwing others out of a spot? I honestly don't recall the name.
On July 25 2007 02:00 FirstProbe wrote: dino sucks
ash.city, incontrol, and the fact that he's in one of the top korean guilds on west atm vouch for the fact that he doesn't suck. his pvt and pvz are very good.
dino very much so does NOT suck. He however, like many NA/USA(more specifically) has attitude issues which makes him a complete wild card.
Skew[USA] - 9 Testie[CAN] 7/8 (I know him personally, he has said he has lost his passion for BW and is playing DOTA atm. He lost to Mondragon P v T (testie P) just yesterday. Unless he improves hes seriously not anywhere near what you guys know him as. IdrA[USA] - 8 (I'd rank him higher but his inability to beat a T and his inconsistancy vs P makes him worse. However vs Z their is none more dangerous in NA imo.) Oldy[CAN] - 8 Iefnaij[CAN] - 7 Assem[USA] - 10 (playing ICCUP about B rank if not B+ atm) Artosis[USA] - 6 Crayon[USA] - 8 Nony[USA] - 7 G5[USA] - 8 Day[USA] - 7.5 (dunno his activity level / not great vs P/Z) Dino[USA] - 8 Target[Light][CAN] - 7 Schism[Light][CAN] - 7 (dunno his other mu but his tvz/tvp was pretty impressive) XiaoZi[CAN] - 10 (if he plays / counts he is as dangerous as Assem/Testie[in shape].) iNcontroL[USA] - 8 (I'm starting to mass game ICCUP again / practice with ToT for WCG)
I'm sure I forgot a bunch. I purposely left out TT1 because he said he quit the foreigner scene, but watch his ass come asking for this tourney
PR said to leave out players like Smuft/Grrrr etc.. which several of you promptly ignored. They are inactive/has beens that come back for several events. So you can maybe make a case for Smuft in this one since he tried very hard and did very well for that ESL thingy or w/e but they are to be left out otherwise.
Nyoken has allegedly broken his CD and quit BW. He has said this 30 times though so who knows.
Bandit is inactive? Hung hacks. BlackJack is retired completely. Nero is retired completely. Mexican players atm are not even worth mentioning imo, nor can I gauge them since their activity alternates so frequently.
Jf is relatively inactive and even in full active his PvT/PvZ is not as good as Dino's (dunno about PvP) and he is probably better than Nony I will agree to that.
You (I only seen 1 mu) get a 6. Decent PvZ but I dont know your other mu's + you are around 50% on ICCUP @ C+/B- rank so..
Also Testie just MSN'd me saying he is gonna try and get good again since I publicly stated he sucks now. The last time he slacked I got em going by hosting a "Shit talking" SM with him onGG.net hehe. So just remember if Testie slacks again someone just needs to insult him a few times publicly and hes back in action!
I didnt see the part about country in PR's post so I will edit it in there.
Also I think the best vs Professionals are the usual suspects + my bias
6 = good enough for me anyways...ya i guess im just thinking about jf's pvp comparative to dino's pvp...p.s. i cant wait to see testie back at full force:D
I signed a contract and still wear their gear to events and play for their team in clan wars. Contract is the main part. It was a __ month deal for a set amount.
On July 25 2007 13:33 MYM.Testie wrote: I signed a contract and still wear their gear to events and play for their team in clan wars. Contract is the main part. It was a __ month deal for a set amount.
What about tasteless, I know he casts alot, but hes also good aswell. Btw does Slog4 count? He was at the WCG US Invitational like 2 years ago or something, hes got to be not too shabby Froz doesnt play anymore tho right? And doesnt Nal_Crayon reside in the US, or is that wrong?
On July 25 2007 19:06 oshibori_probe wrote: Day 8 Testie 7.5 Nony 9 Assem 8ish Xiaozi 8ish Oldy 8ish
What about tasteless, I know he casts alot, but hes also good aswell. Btw does Slog4 count? He was at the WCG US Invitational like 2 years ago or something, hes got to be not too shabby Froz doesnt play anymore tho right? And doesnt Nal_Crayon reside in the US, or is that wrong?
On July 25 2007 19:06 oshibori_probe wrote: Day 8 Testie 7.5 Nony 9 Assem 8ish Xiaozi 8ish Oldy 8ish
I dont agree with some of these but wanted to say it is about time someone ranked Nony higher than oldy. I strongly believe Nony is the better player and he has DOUBLE Oldys apm (im just stating a fact, plz no apm arguments here, I know there are many other factors involved in how to rate a player).
why does so many people think dino sucks? lol...s.o is one of best clans on west, and dino is ranked top six in it...dino is very strong user. however most of you are probably referring to the past though he has made great leaps over the past year imo o.o,
On July 25 2007 19:06 oshibori_probe wrote: Day 8 Testie 7.5 Nony 9 Assem 8ish Xiaozi 8ish Oldy 8ish
I dont agree with some of these but wanted to say it is about time someone ranked Nony higher than oldy. I strongly believe Nony is the better player and he has DOUBLE Oldys apm (im just stating a fact, plz no apm arguments here, I know there are many other factors involved in how to rate a player).
Oldy is A- rank and 133-48 or something on iccup. This would suggest hes better than nony I don't mean to suggest that nony is doing bad or that this is an example that oldy is clearly superior. Just saying that it's perfectly acceptable to rank oldy a bit higher than nony.
On July 25 2007 19:06 oshibori_probe wrote: Day 8 Testie 7.5 Nony 9 Assem 8ish Xiaozi 8ish Oldy 8ish
I dont agree with some of these but wanted to say it is about time someone ranked Nony higher than oldy. I strongly believe Nony is the better player and he has DOUBLE Oldys apm (im just stating a fact, plz no apm arguments here, I know there are many other factors involved in how to rate a player).
Oldy is A- rank and 133-48 or something on iccup. This would suggest hes better than nony
I dont think Nony current record of iccup 74-16 and having the second highest rank of any USA player is something to be ashamed of, but yes Oldy is doing amazingly well and good point.
On July 26 2007 02:34 Skew wrote: The only 10s are IdrA and Testie. Everyone else is somewhere between 7 and a hacker.
Edit: I've played them all, so I'm right. You're not!
errr idra, G5, and Nony all just played in a tourney and G5 like 4-0'd idra over all (they did 2 bo3 sets and he 2-0'd him 2x) how is IdrA a 10?
*edit* this was at a LAN
IdrA is far better than G5 in every way possible. G5 is still the best toss in the USA, though. Note that I'm not bias -- they're both on Micro Media and my friends, but it's the truth. I've seen everyone listed here play many, many times. I've played them all many, many times. The other guys just aren't up to par on a consistant basis (and I'm not saying "talent" has anything to do with it... it's pure drive and desire).
Edit: Nyoken has/had the best TvT outside of Korea when he was active (better than any Russian terran). But he quit. And XiaOzi had the best ZvT outside Korea, IMO (there are other strong ZvTs, but they don't go swarm style... so), but he quit or is very inactive too.
On July 26 2007 02:34 Skew wrote: The only 10s are IdrA and Testie. Everyone else is somewhere between 7 and a hacker.
Edit: I've played them all, so I'm right. You're not!
errr idra, G5, and Nony all just played in a tourney and G5 like 4-0'd idra over all (they did 2 bo3 sets and he 2-0'd him 2x) how is IdrA a 10?
*edit* this was at a LAN
IdrA is far better than G5 in every way possible. G5 is still the best toss in the USA, though. Note that I'm not bias -- they're both on Micro Media and my friends, but it's the truth. I've seen everyone listed here play many, many times. I've played them all many, many times. The other guys just aren't up to par on a consistant basis (and I'm not saying "talent" has anything to do with it... it's pure drive and desire).
Edit: Nyoken has/had the best TvT outside of Korea when he was active (better than any Russian terran). But he quit. And XiaOzi had the best ZvT outside Korea, IMO (there are other strong ZvTs, but they don't go swarm style... so), but he quit or is very inactive too.
@ Testie
I really don't know.
you totally missed my point...im not saying idra isnt *better* than G5 I agree with you idra is better... I was simply saying Idra isnt a 10...i thought i was clear on that but guess not=-O *edit* and i'd probably argue with you about G5 being best toss in usa but who cares about that
On July 26 2007 02:34 Skew wrote: The only 10s are IdrA and Testie. Everyone else is somewhere between 7 and a hacker.
Edit: I've played them all, so I'm right. You're not!
errr idra, G5, and Nony all just played in a tourney and G5 like 4-0'd idra over all (they did 2 bo3 sets and he 2-0'd him 2x) how is IdrA a 10?
*edit* this was at a LAN
IdrA is far better than G5 in every way possible. G5 is still the best toss in the USA, though. Note that I'm not bias -- they're both on Micro Media and my friends, but it's the truth. I've seen everyone listed here play many, many times. I've played them all many, many times. The other guys just aren't up to par on a consistant basis (and I'm not saying "talent" has anything to do with it... it's pure drive and desire).
Edit: Nyoken has/had the best TvT outside of Korea when he was active (better than any Russian terran). But he quit. And XiaOzi had the best ZvT outside Korea, IMO (there are other strong ZvTs, but they don't go swarm style... so), but he quit or is very inactive too.
@ Testie
I really don't know.
you totally missed my point...im not saying idra isnt *better* than G5 I agree with you idra is better... I was simply saying Idra isnt a 10...i thought i was clear on that but guess not=-O *edit* and i'd probably argue with you about G5 being best toss in usa but who cares about that
I C.
As far as NORTH AMERICA ONLY is concerned, IdrA is a 10. There isn't anyone better, but there are equals. At max, you've seen maybe 10 games of his (and they were probably live games where he got cheesed or sucked out). Asking non-players these kinds of things in a game like this (with almost no coverage) is stupid... but Puerto has always been dirty.
Tasteless is also a 10. 10 as far as sexual appeal goes... mmmmm.
PR said to leave out players like Smuft/Grrrr etc.. which several of you promptly ignored. They are inactive/has beens that come back for several events. So you can maybe make a case for Smuft in this one since he tried very hard and did very well for that ESL thingy or w/e but they are to be left out otherwise.
PR: "1. Post all of the good North American players you can think of, that are completely active, none of the players who won WCG 6 years ago, and you still ride their wang."
Smuft still is relatively good and I see him in op tl-west or around often. I didn't think he qualified for what PR had said.
idra, dino , oldy 10 (testie also if hes active) tt1, iefanij, mondragon 9 <-- no one mentioned mondragon to this point sugo_v_ 8 <-- no one mentioned sugo_v_ to this point g5, nony 7 incontrol 7
On July 26 2007 22:45 Waldon wrote: idra, dino , oldy 10 (testie also if hes active) tt1, iefanij, mondragon 9 <-- no one mentioned mondragon to this point sugo_v_ 8 <-- no one mentioned sugo_v_ to this point g5, nony 7 incontrol 7
On July 26 2007 22:45 Waldon wrote: idra, dino , oldy 10 (testie also if hes active) tt1, iefanij, mondragon 9 <-- no one mentioned mondragon to this point sugo_v_ 8 <-- no one mentioned sugo_v_ to this point g5, nony 7 incontrol 7
and others... of course.
This thread is about North American players, Mondragon is from Germany.
On July 26 2007 02:34 Skew wrote: The only 10s are IdrA and Testie. Everyone else is somewhere between 7 and a hacker.
Edit: I've played them all, so I'm right. You're not!
errr idra, G5, and Nony all just played in a tourney and G5 like 4-0'd idra over all (they did 2 bo3 sets and he 2-0'd him 2x) how is IdrA a 10?
*edit* this was at a LAN
IdrA is far better than G5 in every way possible. G5 is still the best toss in the USA, though. Note that I'm not bias -- they're both on Micro Media and my friends, but it's the truth. I've seen everyone listed here play many, many times. I've played them all many, many times. The other guys just aren't up to par on a consistant basis (and I'm not saying "talent" has anything to do with it... it's pure drive and desire).
Edit: Nyoken has/had the best TvT outside of Korea when he was active (better than any Russian terran). But he quit. And XiaOzi had the best ZvT outside Korea, IMO (there are other strong ZvTs, but they don't go swarm style... so), but he quit or is very inactive too.
@ Testie
I really don't know.
you totally missed my point...im not saying idra isnt *better* than G5 I agree with you idra is better... I was simply saying Idra isnt a 10...i thought i was clear on that but guess not=-O *edit* and i'd probably argue with you about G5 being best toss in usa but who cares about that
I C.
As far as NORTH AMERICA ONLY is concerned, IdrA is a 10. There isn't anyone better, but there are equals. At max, you've seen maybe 10 games of his (and they were probably live games where he got cheesed or sucked out). Asking non-players these kinds of things in a game like this (with almost no coverage) is stupid... but Puerto has always been dirty.
Tasteless is also a 10. 10 as far as sexual appeal goes... mmmmm.
I don't know why you make statements like "you've only seen 10 games" if you don't know. I don't even like Idra and I've probably seen at least 50 replays of his games just by virtue of his being in many tournaments etc
On July 26 2007 22:59 Waldon wrote: oh... i didnt read north america only.
fine...... mondragon is from germany, my fault.
sugo_v_ is USA terran, isnt he? or protoss? - 8 schism[light] terran, - 8 lzgamer - 7 lastgosu, assem, nyoken, but they're inactive now??
Dude what the hell do you keep talking about Sugo_V_ for? He's so freaking bad, why are all these nobodies showing up in this thread? By nobody I don't mean they're bad but they are definitely nowhere near the level of "best in North America."
On July 26 2007 22:45 Waldon wrote: idra, dino , oldy 10 (testie also if hes active) tt1, iefanij, mondragon 9 <-- no one mentioned mondragon to this point sugo_v_ 8 <-- no one mentioned sugo_v_ to this point g5, nony 7 incontrol 7
and others... of course.
LOL are you sugo_v_? It's funny that you mentioned him but its even funnier that you have him a 8. He doesn't deserve to be on this list. Period.
On July 26 2007 02:34 Skew wrote: The only 10s are IdrA and Testie. Everyone else is somewhere between 7 and a hacker.
Edit: I've played them all, so I'm right. You're not!
errr idra, G5, and Nony all just played in a tourney and G5 like 4-0'd idra over all (they did 2 bo3 sets and he 2-0'd him 2x) how is IdrA a 10?
*edit* this was at a LAN
IdrA is far better than G5 in every way possible. G5 is still the best toss in the USA, though. Note that I'm not bias -- they're both on Micro Media and my friends, but it's the truth. I've seen everyone listed here play many, many times. I've played them all many, many times. The other guys just aren't up to par on a consistant basis (and I'm not saying "talent" has anything to do with it... it's pure drive and desire).
Edit: Nyoken has/had the best TvT outside of Korea when he was active (better than any Russian terran). But he quit. And XiaOzi had the best ZvT outside Korea, IMO (there are other strong ZvTs, but they don't go swarm style... so), but he quit or is very inactive too.
@ Testie
I really don't know.
you totally missed my point...im not saying idra isnt *better* than G5 I agree with you idra is better... I was simply saying Idra isnt a 10...i thought i was clear on that but guess not=-O *edit* and i'd probably argue with you about G5 being best toss in usa but who cares about that
I C.
As far as NORTH AMERICA ONLY is concerned, IdrA is a 10. There isn't anyone better, but there are equals. At max, you've seen maybe 10 games of his (and they were probably live games where he got cheesed or sucked out). Asking non-players these kinds of things in a game like this (with almost no coverage) is stupid... but Puerto has always been dirty.
Tasteless is also a 10. 10 as far as sexual appeal goes... mmmmm.
hmmm actually i played about 5 games v idra on usa online and saw him play about 20 or so games total...and i resent the statement of "non-player"!
On July 27 2007 12:19 to miss the mark wrote: I'm not sure why people are giving IdrA 10's. He hasn't impressed me the same as all the other players, and I've watched alot of players.
Because he's good? Idra catches a lot of shit, but he's good as fuck.
Its kinda funny seeing the publics interpretation of a lot of these gamers Some serious fanboism going on.
People need to stop giving IdrA a 10. I'm mutual with him on all servers and have been gaming with him for a very long time. I would be the first to tell you hes on of the best in NA and beyond but he is simply WAY to weak against T and is WAY to inconsistant vs P to be considedered a 10. Did any of you care to watch the finals from the NH lan? Those are the kinda results he sometimes does.. or he rolls Lx over. He is just to inconsistant. Also, when hes at his BEST and Testie is at his normal level, IdrA will lose 8 out of 10 TvP with Testie meaning the two should NOT be on the same level.
On July 27 2007 12:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Its kinda funny seeing the publics interpretation of a lot of these gamers Some serious fanboism going on.
People need to stop giving IdrA a 10. I'm mutual with him on all servers and have been gaming with him for a very long time. I would be the first to tell you hes on of the best in NA and beyond but he is simply WAY to weak against T and is WAY to inconsistant vs P to be considedered a 10. Did any of you care to watch the finals from the NH lan? Those are the kinda results he sometimes does.. or he rolls Lx over. He is just to inconsistant. Also, when hes at his BEST and Testie is at his normal level, IdrA will lose 8 out of 10 TvP with Testie meaning the two should NOT be on the same level.
thank you incontrol someone with some common sense! <3
On July 27 2007 12:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Its kinda funny seeing the publics interpretation of a lot of these gamers Some serious fanboism going on.
People need to stop giving IdrA a 10.
u should stop overrating yourself and giving yourself solid "8" you dont deserve 5 in your games vs mondi in that showmatch 104 - 76 - 0 is your rec on iccup so dont say u didnt practice...
On July 27 2007 12:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Its kinda funny seeing the publics interpretation of a lot of these gamers Some serious fanboism going on.
People need to stop giving IdrA a 10.
u should stop overrating yourself and giving yourself solid "8" you dont deserve 5 in your games vs mondi in that showmatch 104 - 76 - 0 is your rec on iccup so dont say u didnt practice...
errr last time i checked mondragon doesnt live in N.A. ...but i could be wrong...also why BM for no reason?
On July 27 2007 12:29 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Its kinda funny seeing the publics interpretation of a lot of these gamers Some serious fanboism going on.
People need to stop giving IdrA a 10.
u should stop overrating yourself and giving yourself solid "8" you dont deserve 5 in your games vs mondi in that showmatch 104 - 76 - 0 is your rec on iccup so dont say u didnt practice...
errr last time i checked mondragon doesnt live in N.A. ...but i could be wrong...also why BM for no reason?
Compare everyone to just foreigners, don't compare them to Korean, or the rankings will be much lower. like pr said in his post ... i am not putting mondi in raking with n.a player i am just stating inc skill from last games and why i am BM ? cuz i have my opinion on his skill level..
On July 27 2007 13:20 Waldon wrote: idra is a solid TvZ, and his consistency, is a problem. but... hell, if u dont want to give him a 10 because of that, give him a 9.
also, idra always comments skew as better, someone said. if so, wouldn't skew definitely be a 10?
and.. everyone said sugo_v_ is not a solid player, but just because one is very bad manner, such as... dino(i2) (he is BM no?) does not mean a thing.
also, i would consider oldy is the best north american.
and to incontrol: EVERYONE is inconsistent.
Sometimes the random dickheads on Tl.net make this site so boring. Waldon: Why the fuck would you say that? Mondragon isnt inconsistent imo. Testie usually. Sen usually. XiaoZi. Etc etc. Why the fuck would you put words in my mouth? IdrA agrees he is inconsistent. It is not just my fabrication of imagination you ignorant moron.
The other random dude dissing me: I havfe gone from active/inactive etc for a long time now due to serious obligations in life like college/work/gf's etc.. so if I get a bad record on a fucking ladder that is infested with hackers and I off race a bunch on it.. why the hell would you hold that over my head? Nony has an amazing record but he got curb stomped in a lan by G5/IdrA? Does that mean anything to you? Certainly not, because your a biased dick head who throws numbers out when they are suitable. I gave myself an 8 because of the fucking NA players available today I think I am one of the best. Especially when I am in shape and motivated. As I am getting to be now (as I also reasoned in my post). So your lil personal bias aside, you really think Im a fucking 5 out of 10 in NA? Jesus christ. Do you follow NW's? Me losing to MONDRAGON makes me pathetic? ROFL
People like you dont deserve my god damn time. Your head is so far up your ass you sneeze out of your belly button. But I am a stubborn prick who responds to almost everyone.
Incontrol you seriously gotta tone your ego down, if you didn't care about what people thought of you in BW you wouldn't go into nerdrage rant mode every single time anyone questioned your skill. Christ. You don't seem to realize that making 20 excuses about losing a match while at the same time in the same post saying you don't care do not go hand in hand.
ganfei werent you banned for being a huge asshole? Who are you to tell anyone about being calm or letting shit go?
Those arent exscuses for losing a match btw, they were reasons for why I suck it up in ladders. Arent you supposed to be educated or something? Reading comprehension isnt your cup of tea is it?
What's with all the incontrol bashing? He's more skilled than the majority of the posters in this thread and thus probably knows what he's talking about.
i love how when u try to argue with incontrol he makes a large paragraph of dismay think hes so cool. well guess what incontrol, no one cares about your long rants. if you think tl.net is boring cuz of people like me, then don't come here. simple as that.
On July 27 2007 14:44 Waldon wrote: i love how when u try to argue with incontrol he makes a large paragraph of dismay think hes so cool. well guess what incontrol, no one cares about your long rants. if you think tl.net is boring cuz of people like me, then don't come here. simple as that.
and mondragon > u
Wanna take bets on his post count when he's banned? There's two logical choices: He realizes he's about to be banned and cools down for a bit before inevitably being banned (~100 posts) OR he comes back with a huge flame and gets banned in this thread.
and sorry for that little rant against incontrol i had, let me get back on topic.
best in USA: idra dino skew assem sugo_v_ lzgamer day[9] incontrol (unfortunately) ig.reaver
best in canada: testie oldy bandit[light] tt1 raptor[light] iejanij schism[light] target[light] (when hes active, although probably the worst out of the rest listed in canada, no offense)
and maybe a few others for USA/Canada, but mainly, those are all the top in NA
On July 27 2007 14:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote: and then there is a guy who actually isnt worth responding to...yikes.
What race is Sugo? Anyways hes like a 8! rofl
incontorl, i said that because i obbed him as terran off race a few times (vs not so great players), but he plays protoss. sorry for me not being 100% sure. and let our difference in this thread be put aside. ^^
On July 27 2007 14:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote: and then there is a guy who actually isnt worth responding to...yikes.
What race is Sugo? Anyways hes like a 8! rofl
incontorl, i said that because i obbed him as terran off race a few times (vs not so great players), but he plays protoss. sorry for me not being 100% sure. and let our difference in this thread be put aside. ^^
On July 27 2007 14:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote: and then there is a guy who actually isnt worth responding to...yikes.
What race is Sugo? Anyways hes like a 8! rofl
incontorl, i said that because i obbed him as terran off race a few times (vs not so great players), but he plays protoss. sorry for me not being 100% sure. and let our difference in this thread be put aside. ^^
hahaha getting caught hyping yourself on the internet is like being caught masturbating in real life
On July 27 2007 14:54 CoralReefer wrote: artosis, skew, and irda are basically the same player. i don't want to imbalance my whole list just cause he might be a tiny bit better
personaly... i think dino is one of the best player in usa.. if were talking B.net. But.. if were talking about "LAN".. then dino would be so far down that list lol ;p
rofl i can respond. i don't care. big deal, i self promote. it's the internet, why not hype myself? and ask for hot_big it must be against admin rules to display someones IP isn't it? fag.
and i do think i'm one of the best, and if u guys don't i don't care. my reputation alraedy sucks, if it gets ruined more, big deal. INTERNET IS INTERNET.
what a tool. jerkoffs like you sugo are the reason why, if american gamers ever got good enough to take on pro-koreans on a regular basis, they still would be blocked from pro-leagues. you an arrogant, bm prick
i said i wouldnt post here BUT, Hawk, if USA ever got to proleagues, then it would be official, our level of geekiness reached the top, even tho we have idra who is geek #1, we're still not geeky enough to be pro-leage, so dont talk stupid.
On July 27 2007 15:49 Waldon wrote: yea lets all see how many times people are gonna say i got "owned"
its obvious. i got owned. but people will repeat 100 more times because they think it adds emphasis. idiots.
you just have to let it soak in. embrace every additional post that laughs at your plight, because you know, from this moment forward, you are now a legend.
like the delicate flower of a lily plant embracing the limitless possibilities of endless joy, elation, and success, i hope that you too will achieve a state of unequilibrated, balance, stamina, and chi
On July 25 2007 06:02 Dknight wrote: Mexican players included I'm assuming. If so, heres a few. I can't really judge them on a skill level but I'd say they're Mexico's cream of the crop:
On July 27 2007 16:06 CoralReefer wrote: happy bday yubee!
like the delicate flower of a lily plant embracing the limitless possibilities of endless joy, elation, and success, i hope that you too will achieve a state of unequilibrated, balance, stamina, and chi
On July 27 2007 16:06 CoralReefer wrote: happy bday yubee!
like the delicate flower of a lily plant embracing the limitless possibilities of endless joy, elation, and success, i hope that you too will achieve a state of unequilibrated, balance, stamina, and chi
On July 27 2007 16:06 CoralReefer wrote: happy bday yubee!
like the delicate flower of a lily plant embracing the limitless possibilities of endless joy, elation, and success, i hope that you too will achieve a state of unequilibrated, balance, stamina, and chi
anyway though, regarding the ratings people give is idra seriously like, top 3 nonkoreans these days? I have no doubt about him being very good and one of the top north american players but.. "Compare everyone to just foreigners, don't compare them to Korean, or the rankings will be much lower." you're not only supposed to compare to north americans. you're supposed to compare to everyone outside korea. imo, there really shouldn't be too many with the highest possible score outside korea period.. and thus definitely not too many in north america. active testie was top 5 outside korea, and imo thus worthy of a 10, but who else from north america is as dominant as he was?
xiaozi is that good imo. Best ZvT and obviously not to shabby zvp/zvz outside of korea. Skew on a good day is the best non korean T and IdrA is up there. But a 10? Like I said I just dont think so >_<
Sugo trying to ward off criticism by saying very skilled bw players are geeks. Haha, and you who self-promote through a smurf, what does that make you? LOL
On July 25 2007 19:06 oshibori_probe wrote: Day 8 Testie 7.5 Nony 9 Assem 8ish Xiaozi 8ish Oldy 8ish
I dont agree with some of these but wanted to say it is about time someone ranked Nony higher than oldy. I strongly believe Nony is the better player and he has DOUBLE Oldys apm (im just stating a fact, plz no apm arguments here, I know there are many other factors involved in how to rate a player).
Oldy is A- rank and 133-48 or something on iccup. This would suggest hes better than nony I don't mean to suggest that nony is doing bad or that this is an example that oldy is clearly superior. Just saying that it's perfectly acceptable to rank oldy a bit higher than nony.
hmm well I guess im biased due to seeing alot more of nony than oldy
Whats the point of listing second tier players, it's basically players who have built up a reputation but are not very skilled at all, if they are truly the next best gamers in their respected country, then sc is in bad shape (competitive wise) . Not all of the best players in a country choose to take part in a national team, therefor it's a farce to list half of those players. Just my 2 cents.
And I just have to say... I do not think Artosis is by any means on the same level as Idra. No offense, he's been my friend since ye olde SFR days, but it's true T_T
On July 28 2007 03:22 CoralReefer wrote: it's sad that these are the best players in north america. guess this shows that bw is really in decline.
Well if there were ever a worthwhile live tournament that wasnt based around a poopsocker online ladder(WCG) I think it would give more drive to the truly top players.
I can't speak for anyone that has been listed, but seriously for a good non-korean player there is almost no reason to even bother practicing. I've always been pretty casual about finding matches and fuck these days unless you have dudes on your aim its nearly impossible to find game. : ]
And dont be upset that BW is "in decline." Shit is old as hell. Most of these dudes have been playing at least 3-4 years I think if not much more. ; ]
On July 28 2007 03:22 CoralReefer wrote: it's sad that these are the best players in north america. guess this shows that bw is really in decline.
i was trying to avoid this thread cuz it was doomed for failure from the start but seriously... shut the fuck up. your list shows you know next to nothing about the level of any of the players in either country. in the world cup usa and canada were both heavy favorites to win, we're probably 2 of the top 3 teams outside of korea at the moment. your ignorance of the players does not constitute lack of quality. (idra on skews account)
Ya... even if you look @ ICCUP ladder ... USA and Canada are both top 5 in 1v1 and 2v2...
especially USA , we have more people at the B- and higher level than anyone else except Korea.
Our national teams outclass almost every other also.
So even though "those are the best in north america" they are still better than anyone from everywhere except the top 2-3 from Germany, and a handful of Polish dudes in relation to the foreign scene.
Just ask players for this. U will just bring more bm and all the fan boys here.
For me USA Terran idra/skew/assem Toss g5/nony/dino Zerg crayon/inc/day
Canada Terran : Schism (wouldn't be top terran if he was from usa) Toss : testie/oldy/jf/tt1(same as schism) Zerg : timothy raptor etc..(same as schism as well)
And USA is prob best country outside of Korea if country does 10 1v1s or something.
I think Testie has said he has lost interest and his passion for BW for maybe 4 years running.
We could even pull out old threads from this forum.
The trouble is, when he focuses, he crushes most of the foreign competition this side of Mondragon and Draco.
Its hard not to rate him as one of the top foreigners, but like you imply it is all about the here and now, and it would come down to his individual focus.
I think his tournament pedigree online and off is pretty damn impressive though, and I can't say that for most of the people we've listed.
Edit: No disrespect to anyone intended either. All of these players who are in the top north american scene are 100 times or more greater than I will ever be, and I've played the game for 8 years!
On July 25 2007 11:58 {88}iNcontroL wrote: dino very much so does NOT suck. He however, like many NA/USA(more specifically) has attitude issues which makes him a complete wild card.
Skew[USA] - 9 Testie[CAN] 7/8 (I know him personally, he has said he has lost his passion for BW and is playing DOTA atm. He lost to Mondragon P v T (testie P) just yesterday. Unless he improves hes seriously not anywhere near what you guys know him as. IdrA[USA] - 8 (I'd rank him higher but his inability to beat a T and his inconsistancy vs P makes him worse. However vs Z their is none more dangerous in NA imo.) Oldy[CAN] - 8 Iefnaij[CAN] - 7 Assem[USA] - 10 (playing ICCUP about B rank if not B+ atm) Artosis[USA] - 6 Crayon[USA] - 8 Nony[USA] - 7 G5[USA] - 8 Day[USA] - 7.5 (dunno his activity level / not great vs P/Z) Dino[USA] - 8 Target[Light][CAN] - 7 Schism[Light][CAN] - 7 (dunno his other mu but his tvz/tvp was pretty impressive) XiaoZi[CAN] - 10 (if he plays / counts he is as dangerous as Assem/Testie[in shape].) iNcontroL[USA] - 8 (I'm starting to mass game ICCUP again / practice with ToT for WCG)
I'm sure I forgot a bunch. I purposely left out TT1 because he said he quit the foreigner scene, but watch his ass come asking for this tourney
PR said to leave out players like Smuft/Grrrr etc.. which several of you promptly ignored. They are inactive/has beens that come back for several events. So you can maybe make a case for Smuft in this one since he tried very hard and did very well for that ESL thingy or w/e but they are to be left out otherwise.
Nyoken has allegedly broken his CD and quit BW. He has said this 30 times though so who knows.
Bandit is inactive? Hung hacks. BlackJack is retired completely. Nero is retired completely. Mexican players atm are not even worth mentioning imo, nor can I gauge them since their activity alternates so frequently.
I think This guy LzGaMeR Who i think is a toss user.. is #1 usa... i seen him beat boxer89 @ us east in a pub FastestMap 1v1 Experts oNly.. so ya.. let this soak in guys.. and surely u will come to agree with me =)
Doesnt play much but hes one of those oldies that is solid especially his TvZ , highly underrated , and is def. a 9 when hes active , with the motivation of his real life friends he can easily be talked back into playing actively
On July 29 2007 09:17 Zeller wrote: Sadist 7 Terran USA
Doesnt play much but hes one of those oldies that is solid especially his TvZ , highly underrated , and is def. a 9 when hes active , with the motivation of his real life friends he can easily be talked back into playing actively
Yeah Sadist is pretty cool, his TvPs and TvZs were always fun to watch, he golfs a lot now. ;(
To clarify, Cloak did proxy DT vs Strelok and stole a game from him. Then he was showing it to everyone when he was supposed to be finishing the bo3. Then he lost 1-2. Then he was on USEast spamming about beating Strelok and showing the replay to anyone who would listen for about 12 hours.
Anyways, I'm guilty of not following the NA scene too closely this year so I can't comment. But I'm sure guys like Inc, Skew, IdrA, Day and NonY obviously deserve to be rated amongst the top American players. Even when these guys stop playing for a while and you go "zomg, this guy sux now", it takes them like a week to get back in top head-cracking form since they had already reached such a high level of skill.
As for Canada, I'm just gonna run with my stalife bias ;-)
This is going off all thier m/us as a whole. You could pick individual players such as Idra and say that his TvZ is like a 9 by itself, but other m/us bring him back down to an 8. Same thing with dino, his Pvt is a solid 9 but his PvZ brings him down a little as well.
some days you play really well, like REALLY well. other days you play like total garbage. do you have some issues with consistency or have i just seen games that lead me to a conclusion thats coincidental?
My computer is set up at my friends house. He has 3 cats that live in the basement and its the "Party" house so usually there are anywhere from 2 - 10 friends sitting around drinking and asking me to get the fuck off the computer. This place is just really hard to concentrate at + I work/workout/hang out with friends more during the summer so I play bw alot less. This all formulates to a very inconsistent gameplay environment. Sometimes its really calm here and I can play as best I can with the practice I have and other times its really hard for me to remember to hit burrow on my lurkers >_<
Glad you asked. If I mention it in any other fashion its perceived as an "exscuse" and I get flamed for being a sore loser or w/e. This is merely my reality. I am alot better (i feel) during the school year. More practice / shut away in my room where its just me and my tunes. I can still squeek out some gg's here but like I said there are just so many factors adding to the improbability of it.
I would say I play worse when my friends are around, but I suck overall anyways ^_^ actually I'm not terrible, but when friends are over, I don't play real games, just mess around with computers anyway, so I don't really know.
On July 30 2007 15:42 {88}iNcontroL wrote: My computer is set up at my friends house. He has 3 cats that live in the basement and its the "Party" house so usually there are anywhere from 2 - 10 friends sitting around drinking and asking me to get the fuck off the computer. This place is just really hard to concentrate at + I work/workout/hang out with friends more during the summer so I play bw alot less. This all formulates to a very inconsistent gameplay environment. Sometimes its really calm here and I can play as best I can with the practice I have and other times its really hard for me to remember to hit burrow on my lurkers >_<
Glad you asked. If I mention it in any other fashion its perceived as an "exscuse" and I get flamed for being a sore loser or w/e. This is merely my reality. I am alot better (i feel) during the school year. More practice / shut away in my room where its just me and my tunes. I can still squeek out some gg's here but like I said there are just so many factors adding to the improbability of it.
yeah i just wondered because sometimes you play really well and then sometimes i gotta wonder what the hell you're doing so
i figured there would be something like that but sometimes its just the guy
I can't play with friends around at all :/ They ask too many questions, and I find it kinda awkward sitting there with my headphones on so it always end up with me having headphones off. Semi-playing while talking to them. Instant lose !
well Future has been practicing quite a bit in secret, and let's not forget aside from LzGamer ... Future actually HAS more accomplishments of any of the other players listed.
He may not get good stats on ladders, but he has a knack for winning when it counts.
IdrA - 9, his tvp/tvz is pure amazement, however vs progamers I don't think he would succeed due to his style of play. However his TvZ can/would beat progamers.
Nony - 7, his PvT is ok, however it always involves Carriers, I don't think he would last long enough vs a progamer to get them though. However his 300 apm is also something shining
Skew - 8, granted his TvZ is good, I've seen that his tvt/tvp arent too great. Vs a Progamer his only hope is TvZ
LaStGosu - 8 , With his good multitask/macro, he has proven he could stand a chance. However vs Z He is bad, so vs progamers his only hope is ZvsP.
DAy[9] - 6, he doesn't take the game serious enough (leaving wcg vs nony because he didn't want to play?) If he took it serious / played enough, then maybe he could succeed vs a progamer with 30% chance of win.
Odin[fOu] - 9, This man has proven to have one of the best / the most ridiculous macro outside Korea. His TvP is so powerful along with his PvT. He has beaten several progamers before, and IMO has the best chance of beating one, as far as USA player go. If not, Him/IdrA/Assem are best hands down. However is TvZ(granted good) is what gives him a 9.
Artosis - 6, His TvT isnt too impresive, his TvP is turtle style, 1-1 move out, and his TvZ is something to not smile about. Granted he has thrown down several achievements, he is no where near ready to compete with progamers.
ChOseN[LiGhT] - 7, His ZvsP is really strong, his ZvT is decent, and I don't know about his ZvZ, however he is one of the few rising stars with little accomplishments, not good enough to take on a pro yet though.
Slog4[pG] - 8.5, His PvT is good, along with his good macro and apm ( 300 - 350 ), However this protoss isn't strong enough PvZ to compete at pro level. His PvP is also very strong.
Assem - 9, Due to his inactive play, Assem can not yet re-clench the best player in the USA, but his tvp/tvz/tvt are always going strong and usually a forced to be reckoned with. Granted Assem did bad in Korea, at least he made it, and that is something only about 1% of Foreigners can say. If he came back to progame, then obviously a 10.
G5 - 8, he has proven he can win, but Not yet ready for his korean dream.
ToT)Incontrol( - 8, Incontrol has shown pretty good games / results over the past. But sometimes his macro can lack. His ZvZ is quite strong, along with ZvsP. However his ZvT being his worst m/u would limit his play for korean pro scene (so many T's). With more practice he can more up higher.
Canada
Testie - 10, Testie has proven time and time again that he is the best foreigner. However even inactive he still holds true to his ability, and has proven that he CAN beat progamers. And even plays Random ( all 3 races ) better than most foreigners can their own.
GiYom - 10, If he were ever to come back, Foreigners would meet the new best foreigner.
Smuft - 8, He is very strong protoss and random, however he hasn't proven enough to clench a 9 or a 10.
Oldy - 8, He loses 50/50 to semi-pro koreans and gets slaughtered vs Pros. However his skill is not to go unnoticed.
TT1 - 8 , Granted he has had his "on-fire" streaks, it isn't enough to bump him past oldy or smuft. Also his ex-hacks doesn't help.
Schism[LiGhT] - 8 , This Terran is unknown fairly, and has yet to try to beat top foreigners from what I can tell. Only time will tell with his one.
Iefnjai - 9, One of the best canadians, proving that he can succeed vs top foreigners. Amazing PvT / PvZ.
XiaOzi - 8, Haven't seen too much from him lately. So I can't say/give him much.
That's about it. Only a few [light] members made it, since many of them only barely exceed B+. They aren't anywhere near ready to compete with top-foreigners or for that matter koreans.
Tier 2 ( all rating will be 1-10 for Tier 2 status, 10 being a possible tier 1)
USA
All Light Members- 8, Team Light is Tier 2 in itself.
b]NeO)Response[/b] - 9, This player has been playing for quite some time. Achieving B+'s / B's in ladders, only deservers him a spot in the Tier 2
Neo)Nesh - 10, This Terran has amazing macro/micro management, but I have not heard enough about him yet. Still very strong and quite possibly one of the best T's in USA
LzGamer - 9, This Zerg has had some accomplishments here and there, but nothing to fancy. Only time will tell where this Zerg goes.
SirTasteless9[media] - 8, His lack of self-esteem / pride in own play only hurts him. If he could finally start to begin to play better for victory / take himself more serious he could become better. However for now he is just a good protoss with known rep / best foreign caster alive.
Machine - 8, I've only heard good things about this player, but not enough. Can't really judge him.
Nal_CrayOn - 9, granted this Zerg is Korean, that does not make him a "non-usa player". This Zerg has shown time and time again the is able to compete with Tier 1 / 2 players.
Dino[S.O] - 10, IMO he is severely overestimated. But that does not make him bad. Great macro/micro and very strong PvT/PvP. Very deserving of Tier 2 / possibly 1. If he were to receive Tier 1 then he would get a 8.
City[fOu] - 9, This player was smashed around in wcg, however he does have amazing accomplishments towards the korean scene, which include 3-0'ing [ReD]NaDa through cheesey TvT play, and achieveing A- PGT.
Canada
All Light Members - 8, Team Light is tier 2 in itself.
JianG - 8, Granted he hasn't been too great past yr or two, Jiang still was very good at one point, don't give up on this protoss.
Odin[fOu] - 9, This man has proven to have one of the best / the most ridiculous macro outside Korea. His TvP is so powerful along with his PvT. He has beaten several progamers before, and IMO has the best chance of beating one, as far as USA player go. If not, Him/IdrA/Assem are best hands down. However is TvZ(granted good) is what gives him a 9
On August 02 2007 21:48 eXigent. wrote: Odin[fOu] - 9, This man has proven to have one of the best / the most ridiculous macro outside Korea. His TvP is so powerful along with his PvT. He has beaten several progamers before, and IMO has the best chance of beating one, as far as USA player go. If not, Him/IdrA/Assem are best hands down. However is TvZ(granted good) is what gives him a 9
LMFAO, the only reason ppl think odin[fou] beats progamers is because he says it himself. almost 100% of everything that comes out of his mouth is complete bullshit, he DOES NOT beat pros on a consistent basis, no matter what he proclaims...
On August 02 2007 22:14 MorningWood wrote: LMFAO, the only reason ppl think odin[fou] beats progamers is because he says it himself. almost 100% of everything that comes out of his mouth is complete bullshit, he DOES NOT beat pros on a consistent basis, no matter what he proclaims...
IdrA - 9, his tvp/tvz is pure amazement, however vs progamers I don't think he would succeed due to his style of play. However his TvZ can/would beat progamers.
Nony - 7, his PvT is ok, however it always involves Carriers, I don't think he would last long enough vs a progamer to get them though. However his 300 apm is also something shining
Skew - 8, granted his TvZ is good, I've seen that his tvt/tvp arent too great. Vs a Progamer his only hope is TvZ
LaStGosu - 8 , With his good multitask/macro, he has proven he could stand a chance. However vs Z He is bad, so vs progamers his only hope is ZvsP.
DAy[9] - 6, he doesn't take the game serious enough (leaving wcg vs nony because he didn't want to play?) If he took it serious / played enough, then maybe he could succeed vs a progamer with 30% chance of win.
Odin[fOu] - 9, This man has proven to have one of the best / the most ridiculous macro outside Korea. His TvP is so powerful along with his PvT. He has beaten several progamers before, and IMO has the best chance of beating one, as far as USA player go. If not, Him/IdrA/Assem are best hands down. However is TvZ(granted good) is what gives him a 9.
Artosis - 6, His TvT isnt too impresive, his TvP is turtle style, 1-1 move out, and his TvZ is something to not smile about. Granted he has thrown down several achievements, he is no where near ready to compete with progamers.
ChOseN[LiGhT] - 7, His ZvsP is really strong, his ZvT is decent, and I don't know about his ZvZ, however he is one of the few rising stars with little accomplishments, not good enough to take on a pro yet though.
Slog4[pG] - 7, His PvT is good, along with his good macro and apm ( 300 - 350 ), However this protoss isn't strong enough PvZ to compete at pro level. His PvP is also very strong.
Assem - 9, Due to his inactive play, Assem can not yet re-clench the best player in the USA, but his tvp/tvz/tvt are always going strong and usually a forced to be reckoned with. Granted Assem did bad in Korea, at least he made it, and that is something only about 1% of Foreigners can say. If he came back to progame, then obviously a 10.
G5 - 8, he has proven he can win, but Not yet ready for his korean dream.
ToT)Incontrol( - 8, Incontrol has shown pretty good games / results over the past. But sometimes his macro can lack. His ZvZ is quite strong, along with ZvsP. However his ZvT being his worst m/u would limit his play for korean pro scene (so many T's). With more practice he can more up higher.
Canada
Testie - 10, Testie has proven time and time again that he is the best foreigner. However even inactive he still holds true to his ability, and has proven that he CAN beat progamers. And even plays Random ( all 3 races ) better than most foreigners can their own.
GiYom - 10, If he were ever to come back, Foreigners would meet the new best foreigner.
Smuft - 8, He is very strong protoss and random, however he hasn't proven enough to clench a 9 or a 10.
Oldy - 8, He loses 50/50 to semi-pro koreans and gets slaughtered vs Pros. However his skill is not to go unnoticed.
TT1 - 8 , Granted he has had his "on-fire" streaks, it isn't enough to bump him past oldy or smuft. Also his ex-hacks doesn't help.
Schism[LiGhT] - 8 , This Terran is unknown fairly, and has yet to try to beat top foreigners from what I can tell. Only time will tell with his one.
Iefnjai - 9, One of the best canadians, proving that he can succeed vs top foreigners. Amazing PvT / PvZ.
XiaOzi - 8, Haven't seen too much from him lately. So I can't say/give him much.
That's about it. Only a few [light] members made it, since many of them only barely exceed B+. They aren't anywhere near ready to compete with top-foreigners or for that matter koreans.
Tier 2 ( all rating will be 1-10 for Tier 2 status, 10 being a possible tier 1)
USA
All Light Members- 8, Team Light is Tier 2 in itself.
b]NeO)Response - 9, This player has been playing for quite some time. Achieving B+'s / B's in ladders, only deservers him a spot in the Tier 2
Neo)Nesh - 10, This Terran has amazing macro/micro management, but I have not heard enough about him yet. Still very strong and quite possibly one of the best T's in USA
LzGamer - 9, This Zerg has had some accomplishments here and there, but nothing to fancy. Only time will tell where this Zerg goes.
SirTasteless9[media] - 8, His lack of self-esteem / pride in own play only hurts him. If he could finally start to begin to play better for victory / take himself more serious he could become better. However for now he is just a good protoss with known rep / best foreign caster alive.
Machine - 8, I've only heard good things about this player, but not enough. Can't really judge him.
Nal_CrayOn - 9, granted this Zerg is Korean, that does not make him a "non-usa player". This Zerg has shown time and time again the is able to compete with Tier 1 / 2 players.
Dino[S.O] - 10, IMO he is severely overestimated. But that does not make him bad. Great macro/micro and very strong PvT/PvP. Very deserving of Tier 2 / possibly 1. If he were to receive Tier 1 then he would get a 8.
City[fOu] - 9, This player was smashed around in wcg, however he does have amazing accomplishments towards the korean scene, which include 3-0'ing [ReD]NaDa through cheesey TvT play, and achieveing A- PGT.
Canada
All Light Members - 8, Team Light is tier 2 in itself.
JianG - 8, Granted he hasn't been too great past yr or two, Jiang still was very good at one point, don't give up on this protoss.
[/b]
OK! I gotta call you on two bullcrap calls. Probably because their both friends of yours. #1 Odin[fOu] has pros play on his ID for most games. He has no real results himself.
#2 City[fOu] Old friend of mine. He never got past C @ PGT He is C- right now iCCup, with maybe a 60% win record. He NEVER played NaDa, or the real NaDa for that matter. His only redeeming point is his TvZ, which barely beats my Zerg.
LOLLMAOROFLCOPTERELITE this mother fucking thread is hilarious are you kids on fucking crack what the fuck are you are you doing giving your opinion if you dont know shit about other players skill level but seeing as i feel very generous i decided to come enlighten my fellow tl.netian brothers on the actual north american scene before i get banned ___________________________________________ CAN, 1st string
testie - 10 ut)choblar(wgt) - 10 o..o xiaozi - 9 (can be 9.5) oldy - 9 jf - 8.5 smuft - 8 (if he even still plays, dunno shape) schism - 7.5 (normally good shape) zergraptor - 7.5 (depends shape) bandit - 7.5 (depends shape, can suprise you with his pvt pvp) ig.reaver - 7 (underated imo, good toss and now lives in canada) ___________________________________________
CAN, 2nd string (i cant rate them because i havnt played much with them to know their skill level but their all good players, so to be fair ill leave it up to the public once again to fuck these ratings up aswell)
freaky[light] b_saint simon coolt onlyrandom (underated) target (underated, can be low 1st string) chosen (dunno) stalife chill jiang _________________________________________
USA, 1st string
idra - 9 (pvt really fucks your shit up even tho i know its not bad) skew - 9 (probably more complete than idra mu-wise dunno skillwise tho but pretty close to each other) assem - 8.5~9 (depends on shape ofc, top shape assem can be dangerous) day[9] - 8 dino - 8 (puzzle) crayon - 7.5~8 (underated can be close 8) nony - 7.5 ~8 g5 - 7.5~8 artosis - 7~7.5 inc - 7~7.5 _____________________________________ USA, 2nd string (like CAN dunno their specific skill level but i've played mostly all of them and their all good players that can cause suprises)
lzgamer (prolly best from 2nd dunno, could be 1st string (6.5ish?)) repent[light] (high second) ash.city (high second) nesh failsafe louder (people say naughty things about him on iccup, never seen him play but hes B @ iccup) future machine tastleslicious (dont forget my shoutout at blizzcon and enjoy urself) sugo_v_ city[fou] (low second) _____________________________________________________ USA, 3rd string :
Lastshadow - 0.5 (can be 0.5~1 on best shape but pls stop hyping ur friends and bragging about ur newbi rigged map ass on threads cus ur very annoying and have no clue what your writing(giyom - 10....go fucking die), shut ur trap and go hide underneath a rock thx bye) Odin[fou] - 0.5 (can be 0.5~1 on best shape along with some practice games with his friend lastshadow) ______________________________________________________
USA wildcard(good players but i have no idea if they play) : slog4(dont play no more) theo(inactive) nyoken(dunno but dont play, used to be very strong T) sadist(dunno but dont play)
Latin country's (nobody wrote anything about them but their north america too),
im not really into the scene here but the top players that pop up in my head ofc are lrm)odin, reason, darki .. some of the weaker players who are still good = assault rage blast smacker etc.(again i dont have much knowledge about their scene)
p.s: all these rankings are just reflections of a player's chance of winning vs another player but in a real game everyone knows anything can happen and any game can go either way SECREST OUT~
btw lastshadow: "Oldy - 8, He loses 50/50 to semi-pro koreans and gets slaughtered vs Pros. However his skill is not to go unnoticed."
huh? lmao i dont see how losing 50/50 to semi pros can get a 8 in your eyes.. i guess if we follow your system then testie beats 95% of semi pros correct ?
lol, ok im in chosens fucking clan he is form america right?? i mean from day 1 when he joined i thought he was american but now a couple of people from this thread say hes from canada. let the truth be told!
Chosen is a Canadian living in America. I'm not sure what his citizenship is. City[Fou] did not 3-0 Nada. I don't know where you heard that but he stuggled in our WGTCL div 2 so he's not an 8.
LastShadow stop posting plz, you make yourself look like an ass everytime. City[fOu] couldn't 3-0 nada if his life depended on it, but he did 2-0 sn_hoony's offrace. I'de agree with iran_no.1, he is low teir 2 player but possibly a little higher or equal to others on that list. I've obbed him take down people as high as incontrol. The only problem with him is his he plays like 1-3 games per week. He has potential, just no will to use it.
latsshadow your list doesn't even make sense in itself (nor is it accurate at all)
you can't put someone in tier2 and say you think they're overrated and then say "if they were tier 1 they'd be an 8" that doesn't make any sense at all
Some of u guys did a good job at ranking the already known foreigners. But I think what Puerto Rican was trying to get at mainly were(and I remember reading it from the opening post)the "unknown" gosus that no one knew about that can compare or even compete with great foreigners if given the chance. But all he got were 13 pages of crap that he specifically mentioned he didn't want from his beginning post although there were some good onces here. Oh, well good luck with ur tourney PuertoRican.
Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
Lol.
You're list is garbage as everyone in second tier lists is 8 or above. There are 6 and 7s in your 1st tier, but everyone in tier 2 is 8 or 9...
If Odin DOES have pros play for him, then no one would be playing the real Odin.
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
You ARE bad, I don't have to play you to say that. It's not like we have to play professional sports to be able to comment on professional players. Also, your list IS inaccurate and it has NOTHING to do with people being biased against you. It's only you against the world because you're acting like an idiot.
On August 03 2007 13:39 {88}iNcontroL wrote: lastshadow used a rigged map vs idra and uploaded the game on gg.net >_<
lets get your facts straight
a) i did not upload it b) i am talking to idra about that now c) i even used the map against myself vs nesh ( nesh protoss ) d) i did not know the map was rigged until i was playing versus idra e) Idra would've easily beaten me hands down, and he is the better player.
you're still full of shit. when we asked you about it in the channel yesterday a bunch of other people popped up saying youd been accused of rigging maps in the past. doesnt exactly sound like a one time isolated accident, that and the fact that it is impossible to believe you couldve played that game without realizing your units cost 3/4 what they should and built way faster, yet you still denied it after the game.
yeah i denied it because of the result of the game, even when noticing it mid-game im not going to stop and go "this map is rigged" and leave. Because the time that i did realize it was when your 200/200 attack killed my units, that would've looked real good.
The people accusing me of using a rigged map were complete idiots that lost to me.
My fucking account was hacked because of this shit and xiongaming and odin[fou] and inter.hero's because they are all friends of mine.
can we deal with this in PM's so we don't troll up the thread?
the thread has already served its purpose, at least for the most part. but there is nothing to deal with anyway. you cheated, you got caught, thats pretty much it.
On August 03 2007 14:25 Skew wrote: the thread has already served its purpose, at least for the most part. but there is nothing to deal with anyway. you cheated, you got caught, thats pretty much it.
Yes and I admit to it.
I am sorry, as I said in the PM.
But please do not think that I did it intenionally, if I did, then why would I have played nesh while he was protoss? To make it ridiculous for me?
All I'm asking is for a re-game so that I can see how well I do versus you with my main race ( terran ) do you accept? If no, then i completely understand.
sorry idra and to anyone on TL.net / GG.net that saw this mishap
the fact that nesh doesnt play pvt, or that it was a different map, comes to mind. why on earth would i re you when you used a rigged map and then had the rep posted.
On August 03 2007 14:25 Skew wrote: the thread has already served its purpose, at least for the most part. but there is nothing to deal with anyway. you cheated, you got caught, thats pretty much it.
Yes and I admit to it.
I am sorry, as I said in the PM.
But please do not think that I did it intenionally, if I did, then why would I have played nesh while he was protoss? To make it ridiculous for me?
All I'm asking is for a re-game so that I can see how well I do versus you with my main race ( terran ) do you accept? If no, then i completely understand.
sorry idra and to anyone on TL.net / GG.net that saw this mishap
Maybe it was a different version of tau cross :o or should I say..non-rigged.
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
Lastshadow. A vietnamese friend of mine and his named GianG, gave him the account Shadow. Shadow[fOu] wanted it. They made a trade. [fOu] tag for Shadow ID. They did it, so hes now a member. City didn't get in based on skill. Neither did Odin. Neither did PluS[fOu]
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
Lastshadow. A vietnamese friend of mine and his named GianG, gave him the account Shadow. Shadow[fOu] wanted it. They made a trade. [fOu] tag for Shadow ID. They did it, so hes now a member. City didn't get in based on skill. Neither did Odin. Neither did PluS[fOu]
Before you go on your jealous little rampage, you missed this point.
On August 02 2007 16:14 PuertoRican wrote: post 2nd tier North Americans now, basically everyone who is decent, but wasn't mentioned in the top NA list.
If they play on the B national team, they must have some type of skill. Im pretty sure of the 2nd tier players that most people here listed, most are part of the B national team. So regardless of their mishaps, they are tier 2 players nonetheless.
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
Lastshadow. A vietnamese friend of mine and his named GianG, gave him the account Shadow. Shadow[fOu] wanted it. They made a trade. [fOu] tag for Shadow ID. They did it, so hes now a member. City didn't get in based on skill. Neither did Odin. Neither did PluS[fOu]
Before you go on your jealous little rampage, you missed this point.
On August 02 2007 16:14 PuertoRican wrote: post 2nd tier North Americans now, basically everyone who is decent, but wasn't mentioned in the top NA list.
If they play on the B national team, they must have some type of skill. Im pretty sure of the 2nd tier players that most people here listed, most are part of the B national team. So regardless of their mishaps, they are tier 2 players nonetheless.
Jealous little rampage? City[fOu] was never in a B National Team. I'm not sure about Odin. And PluS was NEVER in it either.
Look on wgtour very carefully City[fOu] = LzH.Shadow (not lastshadow) Odin[fOu] = TerrainTerran so probably half the shit you just said isn't true either, you should idle the infamous LastShadow.
Wow I actually took the time to read this thread... Lz why do you act GM around me in SC then on a big forum you want to say your P is win rec on me... you 1-0ed me with 3 gate pressure goon or something along those lines on Tau, not saying its not defendable... but seriously, no need.
Second thing, yes I am TerrainTerran from USA B and I do agree that Chosen is a very great tournament player, maybe not as highly skilled as the top in the USA but for a top in the USA tourney, he would do great because he somehow pulls a rabbit out of his ass and beats everybody in tournies . Dino would not win 1 game in an offline tourney.
Third Thing, I do not have pro's log on my account, the statement itself is pretty damn retarded, first off progamers are like whores. You have to pay them for everything. Second off, most pro's are gm and wouldn't do it in the first place, especially for someone who they know isn't korean. Third off, I don't beat progamers... I have played 6 progamers, I did well vs them because I prepped myself for it. I'm sorry if you guys are gay but someone told me to come here because I was getting flamed.. (edit I don't beat them on a constant basis*)
I will go over this thread again and make a ranking system which I'm sure all the east D+ 12-18 on iccup users will flame.
USA: (rankings going not by skill but how highly they should be ranked in their country) Idra: 10 Crayon: 10 Assem: 9 G5: 9 Nony: 8.5 Incontrol: 8 Lastgosu: 8 (he easily comes back from rustiness) Chosen: 8 Skew: 7.5 Dino: 7 Odin: 7 LzGamer: 7 Artosis: 7 Nesh: 6.5 Machine: 6 Slog4[pG]: 5.5 Repent: 5.5 Theognis: 5 (rusty as sin.) Day[9]: 5 as well due to rustiness Tasteless: 5
On August 03 2007 18:49 Game[xT] wrote: USA: (rankings going not by skill but how highly they should be ranked in their country) Idra: 10 Crayon: 10 Assem: 9 G5: 9 Nony: 8.5 Incontrol: 8 Lastgosu: 8 (he easily comes back from rustiness) Chosen: 8 Skew: 7.5 Dino: 7 Odin: 7 LzGamer: 7 Artosis: 7 Nesh: 6.5 Machine: 6 Slog4[pG]: 5.5 Repent: 5.5 Theognis: 5 (rusty as sin.) Day[9]: 5 as well due to rustiness Tasteless: 5
Tell me what you guys think and if you think I missed anyone (I'll edit and fill it in)
I actually agree with this. Except for a FEW things. Nesh/Machine should be lower. Nesh is good TvP, but his other mu's can't hold up. Machine is overrated. He is decent, but he chokes easily. Chill should be on the same level, if not a tiny bit above Freaky.
Nesh sure, but I mean he pulls out wins, and there aren't really many good USA players, Machine is just "up" there I mean I ranked it upon where they should be not their skill... I mean Machine plays good some days and some days not.
On August 03 2007 18:49 Game[xT] wrote: USA: (rankings going not by skill but how highly they should be ranked in their country) Idra: 10 Crayon: 10 Assem: 9 G5: 9 Nony: 8.5 Incontrol: 8 Lastgosu: 8 (he easily comes back from rustiness) Chosen: 8 Skew: 7.5 Dino: 7 Odin: 7 LzGamer: 7 Artosis: 7 Nesh: 6.5 Machine: 6 Slog4[pG]: 5.5 Repent: 5.5 Theognis: 5 (rusty as sin.) Day[9]: 5 as well due to rustiness Tasteless: 5
Uhhh..... this is about the worst ranking I've ever seen of USA players.
game[xt] i had no idea u were odin[fou] ROFL.. i was talking about games that i played vs. ODIN[fou] on west pvt.. while back.. i still have the replays if u want them... and i didnt know u were the same person.. so ya.. cant really call it bm.. but then again i cant really agree with shadows post anyways.. u dont beat pro-gamers.. dont even try and lie about that..
anyways i dont have no beef with u.. becasue as far as i was talking to shadow.. i didnt even know u were the same person..
I see, nah I get a lot of games with a lot of good koreans you know this I've beaten like 2 progamers and a few semi-progamers but the majority is losses obviously. Nah I don't want the reps haha no need -_-
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
He got in fOu because he gave the leader the ID "Shadow"
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
He got in fOu because he gave the leader the ID "Shadow"
And this was already mentioned, read before posing please -_-
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
And if any of you knew anything, City[fOu] was only allowed into fOu FOR BEATING NADA.
And to the morons that say Odin has people play for him. You can [try] and go beat him yourself. You won't win at all.
And for people saying I'm bad and don't know what i'm talking about, i'd gladly play you anytime.
He got in fOu because he gave the leader the ID "Shadow"
And this was already mentioned, read before posing please -_-
Sorry sir, didn't look through the entire thread =[
On August 03 2007 13:17 lastshadow wrote: Oh I forgot that 95% of TL.net is A+ and can read everyone's skill level accordingly, when in fact all that they do is play ums and or bad low level gamers. Or better yet, think getting top 10 gg.net makes you the best player alive.
wait and.......what have you done in brood war?
i played you like 6 months ago and your tvz was D- (not even exaggerating), where did this ego come from
The dude has his own nickname homes, what the fcuk have YOU done? Do people fear your pressure? No, they do his. As long as he hosts and its on ums setting as well...
game[xt], even if you did beat progamers, you lose to random kids on east who can't even get past C on iccup which implies your own skill is around C on iccup unless you were having an extremely bad day. If you would like me to post reps of you losing to shitty newbs in 20min games then go ahead and deny this.
On August 11 2007 07:29 kdog3683 wrote: game[xt], even if you did beat progamers, you lose to random kids on east who can't even get past C on iccup which implies your own skill is around C on iccup unless you were having an extremely bad day. If you would like me to post reps of you losing to shitty newbs in 20min games then go ahead and deny this.
just playing devil's advocate but I too have lost to insane noobs, actually lots of top gamers have.I dont think this proves anything.
God damn, this thread blew up quick... uhm to defend myself (again since I already mentioned I would get flamed) uhm... you're confusing me with another American, will not say his name, that was friends with mtm- and giang who gave him the Shadow ID, he was in fOu like a year before me o_o I actually got into fOu with a korean translator helping me a lot and tried out twice. And.................. losing to east noobs... I think I've lost one time on East, to a guy named Star when I was drunk smurfing, you guys are VERY confused about who I am it seems. I am not lastshadow. I am not a fake fOu member who gives original IDs, infact I don't have an original ID. and I don't even play East.
[/Edit] Please stick to the original topic as well. If you want to flame, go into x17, if you want to reply to a thread about scaling North American players, do so.
EPT
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![[image loading]](http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7586/roflwaldonvd5.jpg)
not really anymore.
