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On February 10 2021 08:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2021 08:40 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
so ladder phase gets cancelled and restarted? everything else seems super unfair?_? Why not give participants the option to either play the new ladder or hold on their current score? Inactive gosus can knock out 40 games and S rank in the time remaining if he planned to. People like me with less time to ladder (work/kids/other commitments) and already got their account ready to enter can elect to hold on their current MMR. At the end merge the lists and take the top 28. I'm not sure who doing that would hurt. Anyone who spent the past few weeks grinding for BSL and doesn't have a good MMR already isn't going to be kept out by the ladder reset, they're going to be kept out because after weeks of grinding they didn't have a good MMR. Anyone who planned to blitz the ladder in the last few days still can. People currently on 2100 MMR after 100 games will probably say that had it not been for the reset they totally would have gotten 2350 by Sunday but I'm not sure I believe them. Either way, they have the option to prove themselves in the next 5 days.
It is easier to rank higher at the end of a season than at the beginning of a season.
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My idea was more that we literally give 12 slots to the people that were top 12 before the ladder reset, and then everyone else can play for the remaining 12 slots. (This is assuming it's 24 players that qualify from proleague, I honestly can't remember if there are seeds / gosuleague winners or anything, whatever the number you can just adjust it to be 50/50). To me that seems fair.
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On February 10 2021 20:51 Avi-Love wrote:
My idea was more that we literally give 12 slots to the people that were top 12 before the ladder reset, and then everyone else can play for the remaining 12 slots. (This is assuming it's 24 players that qualify from proleague, I honestly can't remember if there are seeds / gosuleague winners or anything, whatever the number you can just adjust it to be 50/50). To me that seems fair.
This is a decent idea since it accounts for the ladder rankings being very skewed for the first few weeks of the season.
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On February 10 2021 17:48 Poegim wrote:
Sneazel comeback ?!
Yea, hello ^^ But unfortunate my 3 account are just a little bit below #28 position haha
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Russian Federation372 Posts
just sum ratings and num of games before/after reset, thats all
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Norway28731 Posts
I think avi's solution is a good one.
Maybe something like, top 12 out of guys with 30+ games from the pre-reset list, ~10 spots for top ladder from the next ~10 days (and say 30 games requirement there too), the rest (6 spots?) from two separate qualification tournaments - one this weekend, one next?
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On February 10 2021 20:51 Avi-Love wrote:
My idea was more that we literally give 12 slots to the people that were top 12 before the ladder reset, and then everyone else can play for the remaining 12 slots. (This is assuming it's 24 players that qualify from proleague, I honestly can't remember if there are seeds / gosuleague winners or anything, whatever the number you can just adjust it to be 50/50). To me that seems fair.
28 people qualify because top 4 was supposed to be seeded into ro16 and then 24 more players get into ro24
Your idea makes perfect sense, though. It's a good one.
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On February 10 2021 21:47 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I think avi's solution is a good one.
Maybe something like, top 12 out of guys with 30+ games from the pre-reset list, ~10 spots for top ladder from the next ~10 days (and say 30 games requirement there too), the rest (6 spots?) from two separate qualification tournaments - one this weekend, one next?
Sounds perfect to me.
Would be good to hear from someone from the BSL team as quickly as possible.
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Why is easier to rank at the end of season that at the start?
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United States43425 Posts
On February 10 2021 23:39 ZakRoM wrote:
Why is easier to rank at the end of season that at the start?
Progamers form their own bubble at 2700 late season and leave the rest of us alone.
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South Korea2105 Posts
tbh i like koget's solution better, right now i keep getting the 'downloading map list' bug again and cant queue
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United States43425 Posts
I wouldn’t hate a naked favouritism solution either, honestly. I think if you asked people to name the top 28 foreigners you’d get 90% of the same names on everyone’s list. We all basically agree who should be playing, and who shouldn’t be. I’m above Terror in the ladder but if ZZZero said that Terror deserves a slot more than me I’m not about to argue that I’m better at Starcraft than Terror.
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On February 11 2021 00:57 KwarK wrote:
I wouldn’t hate a naked favouritism solution either, honestly. I think if you asked people to name the top 28 foreigners you’d get 90% of the same names on everyone’s list. We all basically agree who should be playing, and who shouldn’t be. I’m above Terror in the ladder but if ZZZero said that Terror deserves a slot more than me I’m not about to argue that I’m better at Starcraft than Terror.
Not everyone is as open minded and logical though, to admit things like this. Plus your example is two opposite ends of the spectrum (top foreigner vs lower tier foreigner, no offense). What about examples when there are people in the same "tier"?
Which is why there are qualifiers/a ladder stage, so the data can do the talking and it's objective instead of speculative.
People have had some good suggestions in here, but even each suggestion has strong counter arguments to it. Let's just wait and see what the BSL team decides; I think one thing hopefully we can all agree on: whatever they decide, we will support it, and not everyone will be happy with it either. It is what it is.
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On February 11 2021 00:57 KwarK wrote:
I wouldn’t hate a naked favouritism solution either, honestly. I think if you asked people to name the top 28 foreigners you’d get 90% of the same names on everyone’s list. We all basically agree who should be playing, and who shouldn’t be. I’m above Terror in the ladder but if ZZZero said that Terror deserves a slot more than me I’m not about to argue that I’m better at Starcraft than Terror.
then why even making any qualifiers? when you " all basically agree who should be playing". let ZZZero invite them and lets see same faces playing over and over again in every tournament. this is the worst way you can solve this problem, i am sure ZZZero making ranking like this so newcomers who maybe have more time to play and more luck can break thourgh to gosuleague or even higher.
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United States43425 Posts
On February 11 2021 01:08 Tarson wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2021 00:57 KwarK wrote:
I wouldn’t hate a naked favouritism solution either, honestly. I think if you asked people to name the top 28 foreigners you’d get 90% of the same names on everyone’s list. We all basically agree who should be playing, and who shouldn’t be. I’m above Terror in the ladder but if ZZZero said that Terror deserves a slot more than me I’m not about to argue that I’m better at Starcraft than Terror. then why even making any qualifiers? when you " all basically agree who should be playing". let ZZZero invite them and lets see same faces playing over and over again in every tournament. this is the worst way you can solve this problem, i am sure ZZZero making ranking like this so newcomers who maybe have more time to play and more luck can break thourgh to gosuleague or even higher.
We had qualifiers because qualifiers are better but then Blizzard came in and fucked everything up. Naked favouritism isn’t a great idea but this is a fucked situation and we don’t want to see players that everyone knows would have qualified without Blizzard intervening get excluded. You were on my list btw. With your MMR +75 from gosuleague win it was pretty obvious you were going to qualify.
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You guys talk too much, whats the new ruling on the ladder reset?
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Hidden precious Kwark's list.
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As far as favoritism is concerned, I think that is the point of allowing the top 12 as is. Every name in the top 12 either has qualified previously, was going to certainly qualify this time or is just viewed as a top foreigner objectively. The rest can battle it out for the remaining spots.
And let's be honest, if time is an issue when it comes to your availability to play then you were never going to reach even the Ro8 unless you were already a top contender ie Bonyth, Koget.
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I think IF the solution is time sensitive (e.g. no extended BSL ladder period) that should be told to the public as soon as possible. So that at least individuals have enough time to grind the last 4 Days.
But not extending the BSL Ladder time frame (and thus maybe/probably(?) delaying the official start of Pro League) seems unwise overall.
Ofc zzzero also doesnt want to post anything too quickly and has to think this through .. but we need information pretty soon I think.. ;/
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Poland1574 Posts
BSl11 Ladder Reset: Official Solution
Unfortunately the SC: R ladder reset took place tonight. Therefore, we need to deal with this situation and determine the fairest way to qualify for BSL11. I am aware that we will not be able to satisfy everyone with our solution, so I am asking for your understanding.
It wasn't easy to make a decision because there were so many factors that I had to take into consideration. I've been thinking about it all day at work and I think I have a fairly satisfactory solution:
BSL11 PROLEAGUE
OLD ladder season:
- 1. TOP4 players with minimum 50 games are qualified for BSL11 RO16 -> kogeT, OyA (2)
- 2. TOP5 - 28 players with minimum 40 games are qualified for BSL 11 RO24 -> Bonyth, Gosudark, Grimeboss, cRoSs, Dandy, Sziky, BoA, g0rynich, Spx, KwarK, TerrOr, UltrA, Ziggy, Tech, Yugox, MadiNho (16)
- 3. TOP5 - 28 players with minimum 20 games plays tour for 3 spots in BSL11 RO24 -> Dewalt, trutaCz, Tarson, Hawk, dsaqwe, DragOn (6) - Saturday 13.02, 18:00 CET #op BSL
NEW ladder season:
- 4. BSL11 Ladder stage will be extended till 20.02.2021, 23:59 UTC;
- 5. TOP2 players with minimum 30 games goes to BSL11 RO16 (Sum of the games with "old season ladder" needs to be min. 50);
- 6. TOP3-7 players with minimum 20 games goes to BSL11 RO24 (Sum of the games with "old season ladder" needs to be min. 40);
- 7. You don't need to register on website again, continue playing on same nickname (You need to register if you haven't done it earlier);
Additional info: - If player who is already qualified for BSL11 RO24 will qualify to BSL11 RO16, we will extend the number of spots qualified from New Ladder Season (Point. 6).
- BSL11 Ladder Tour Open #3 will be canceled.
- First casts of BSL Season 11 will be moved one week further (RO24 - 26/27/28 of February).
- Please take under consideration, that I might have missed someone who should be qualified, please contact me if I did.
- Old ladder ranking position has prioryty over new ladder ranking in terms of map picks in RO8
- Hatchet is working hard on delivering both (new and old) ladder rankings on our webpage
BSL11 GOSULEAGUE
Old ladder season: - TOP29 - 61 players who had minimum 30 games goest to BSL11 Gosuleague RO32;
New ladder season: - TOP8 - XX players who will have minimum 20 games goes to BSL11 Gosuleague RO32; (Sum of the games with "old season ladder" needs to be min. 30)
BSL11 CHOBOLEAGUE
Old ladder season: - Everyone who played minimum 20 games and will confirm participation on BSL Discord is qualified for BSL11 Choboleague;
New ladder season: - Everyone who will play minimum 20 games and will confirm participation on BSL Discord is qualified for BSL11 Choboleague;
How I can start/continue playing in BSL11? + Show Spoiler +0. If you have played in BSL11 on your BSL-nickname and was registered on https://bombasticstarleague.com/ you don't have to register again, you can continue playing on same nickname. Otherwise: 1. Create a new account using the BSL- tag on any gateway BSL-YourNickName, e.g.: BSL-Hatchet, BSL-Obellus, BSL-ZZZero, ... [NOT BSL11-!)2. Head over to: https://bombasticstarleague.com/3. Register on the site and add your in-game account to the rankings 4. Launch StarCraft: Remastered and start laddering!
For those who are already qualified:
- Join BSL Discord and confirm your participation on #confirm-participation
More info about BSL Season 11.
Apologizes for all the players that are not satisfied with my solution, if it will make you feel any better, this situation is terrible for us as well.
Please help us spread this news to everyone, we don't have special announcement event for this purpose.
Topic about it:
https://tl.net/forum/bw-tournaments/569089-bsl11-ladder-reset-official-solution
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EPT
