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[ASL10] Ro8 Preview P2: Fight, Flight, or Freeze?

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[ASL10] Ro8 Preview P2: Fight, Flight, or Freeze?

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
October 25th, 2020 05:14 GMT
ASL Season 10 Banner

Let's be real here. The Ro8 so far has been very lackluster and disappointing. Despite the excitement of Flash's random picks and the possibility of an epic ZvP, we were left with two really, really one-sided matches. Both series were over within an hour, even with ample breaks from Afreeca to try and draw things out. So...let's hope for better matches this week.

One thing to note about this Ro8 is the immense amount of Zerg players, especially the immense amount of good Zerg players. After what seems like a lifetime since the departure of Effort and Jaedong, Zerg players are finally starting to not only hold their own against the top Terran and Protoss players, they're also creating their own echelon of stardom with breakouts like Soma and the rapid ascent of traditionally good players like ZerO and Action to outstanding players. If anything, this season has shown us how dominant Zerg is looking in the ZvT and ZvP matchups right now, and with the caliber of top Zerg players we have right now, that momentum doesn't look like it's going to let up for a while.

Now, on to the previews!


Soulkey vs Larva by Blind-Rawr
Choke or Clutch



It's been a long time since we've seen (Z)Soulkey reach the bracket stage of the ASL. His ASL run and a chance to earn a seed into the next ASL lie in the hands of this ZvZ against (Z)Larva, an unpredictable opponent in an unpredictable matchup...will Soulkey go from choke to clutch or will footstargamer move forward?

Looking at Sponbbang, neither player has played a lot of ZvZs in the last three months, clocking in about 55 games for Soulkey (30-25) and 41 games for Larva (22-19). That leaves us with a roughly the same win rate within the 54% range, and offline they have only faced off once in KSL2, where Soulkey won 3-1 against Larva.

However, when you take a look at the overall ASL situation, whenever either player has been put in a ZvZ eliminator, Larva has almost always managed to cinch the win against his opponents whereas Soulkey has almost always lost despite being considered the favorite in the matchup.

One of the biggest issues for Soulkey has been his ability to perform outside the comfort of his own home since he’s returned to BW, and while he managed to win a KSL, he has been unable to break into the Ro16 in ASL since Season 3 while falling short in ZvP and ZvZ, which should be considered his two best matchups.

It should be noted that when it comes to map picks, Larva picked Polypoid and Shakuras Temple—both 4-player maps—whereas Soulkey picked Benzene and Eclipse, which are both 2-player maps. Soulkey is doing his very best to eliminate games of chances when it comes to this series and maybe even looking to get a more quicker and decisive win against Larva on his map choices.

ZvZ will alway be a match hard to predict, this one even more so. On both paper and in practice, either player can take the series. What is very likely is that this match, much like the other Ro8 matches, will be decided by momentum; whoever can win the first match could easily put their opponent on tilt, and because Soulkey’s overall mutalisk control seems better than Larva, I place my bets on him to take it. The potential of a Soulkey vs ZerO or BeSt is very cool, while on the other hand, Larva vs BeSt might be interesting...but Larva vs ZerO will feel a lot like this matchup, and I don’t particularly want to copy paste this article and change up the names.


Soulkey 3-1 Larva

(Z)Soulkey advances to the Ro4!



Best vs ZerO by AllyssaGrey
Winner Takes All



Real talk, this season is Best’s to win.

This may seem like an odd statement considering the notoriously lackluster performances that (P)Best has had in the past two years, but with what seems like a completely rejuvenated PvZ with brand new ideas and strategies coupled with some of the best online stats he’s had in years in all matchups, Best is seriously looking far more powerful than I think anyone is giving him credit for.

It’s easy to praise (Z)ZerO for his balanced macro style that mixes sublimely-microed aggression with a thirst for gobbling up the bases on the map, especially coming out of spring as ASL Champion. But we have to remember that across the board Zergs are dominating, it’s not just ZerO. A combination of favorable map pools, meta shifts, and key retirements (and race changes…) have finally created an atmosphere where Zerg players can shine without being overshadowed by monsters like Effort or Jaedong, and in this environment, it appears that Zerg meta is advancing much more quickly than the other races due to the vast amounts of experience and top notch games.

PvZ is historically a lopsided match in either direction. For much of StarCraft’s history, though, it has been dominated by Zerg players though. With the exception of Bisu’s revolution, Protoss players have struggled just to get up bases and deal with the unpredictability of openings that Zerg has at its disposal, and the current times are no different. Deadly 3-hatch hydra timings, fake aggression into 4-hatch plays, mass muta/scourge timings, and incredible “hydra max” openings all feed into one sure thing for Protoss: everything is uncertain.

The reason why I think that Best is surprisingly well prepared for this is because of the evolution of his playstyle in the matchup. Best has historically had a very difficult time mastering the Bisu-esque multitasking style where his corsairs—nicknamed “doh-sairs” for his tendency to lose them by accident—are constantly poking around, scouting, and looking for overlords to pick off, so instead he seems to have turned to his greatest asset, which is incredible army management and macro.

The most interesting evolution of this style has been the addition of a dark archon to his ground army for Maelstrom on the mutalisks. As muta/hydra styles became more common, it was a natural step to take because it shuts down the mutalisks instantly and prevents them from picking off templar at critical moments in the game. The second most interesting evolution has been Best’s penchant for interesting dragoon range openings. While I’m still not completely sold on this opening as solid, it does have some merit by shutting down mutas better as well as building up for an incredible two base army with dragoons and reavers which can outright win the game with a specific timing.

On the Zerg side of things, I feel like we’ve seen a return to the 6-hatch mass hydra style that dominated earlier this year, but it’s...different somehow. Perhaps it’s a combination of Zergs being able to take a faster 4th base and Protosses gearing up for more 2-base aggression, but hydra armies seem to be getting even larger and more fearsome than ever before. In a lot of games, we’re seeing Zerg go up to over 140 supply of just hydras and drones, and it’s absolutely crazy to see how they manage to spread units out and take on huge gateway armies just by macroing like mad.



So getting back to this particular matchup, I think that both players are well suited for each other, but in this particular case, Best comes out on top numerically. He has a positive win rate against ZerO (4-3), Soma (14-12), and Action (5-4) in spon matches this month as well as a positive head-to-head (14-11) against ZerO. The only negative head-to-head is against Soulkey. On the other side of things, ZerO has a better overall win rate against Protoss (61.4% vs Best’s 58.6% with a similar number of games), but many of his wins come from Shuttle, Stork, and Snow, who are arguably much weaker Protoss players (and yes, I will argue that Snow is not the best Protoss player on earth right now, Artosis). Funnily enough, ZerO also has only one negative head-to-head, but it’s against Best.

In short, ZerO seems to be doing better overall in the matchup, but Best’s stats, while far from dominating, seem to indicate that he can take on the best Zerg players and win consistently.

In terms of the maps, we have a fairly standard set of maps to play on in the series:

    Set 1 - Polypoid
    Set 2 - Plasma
    Set 3 - Benzene
    Set 4 - Ringing Bloom
    Set 5 - Shakuras Temple


Unsurprisingly, ZerO picked Polypoid and Benzene, both maps where the 3rd base with gas tends to be far away and quite difficult to take, which makes it much harder for Protoss to get into a strong macro game. Likewise, “weirder” maps like Plasma and Ringing Bloom play more to Best’s macro-oriented, mechanical style. While ZerO is a fantastic player, I don’t think he thrives on chaos in messy games as well as Best does, so if any of the games start to go off the rails (and they will on Plasma), it’s likely that Best will be able to pull through and take a win.

The two key maps will be Plasma (G2) and Ringing Bloom (G4). Polypoid and Benzene are almost guaranteed wins for ZerO, but if he can take a win off Best on his map pick, it will skew the series heavily in his favor and put Best in a position where he has to play ultra well to beat his opponent. I expect a lot of fairly straightforward games, but I don’t doubt that each player has some pocket strategies to pull out on their less preferred maps to try to get an edge.

How will things land? I expect that if Best shows up and performs his best, it will be an incredibly close fight, perhaps going all the way to the ace match, but at the same time, who’s to say online Best will be as good as offline Best? In a matchup between two players notorious for choking in live settings, we’ll have to hope that both can overcome their nerves and serve up the best possible games.

In the end, though, I think that the numbers are against ZerO, and that this tournament is truly Best’s actual chance at a championship win. If Best can beat ZerO here, he can beat anyone, especially Flash on Random.


Best 3-2 ZerO

(P)Best advances to the Ro4!
Writers: BLinD-RawR, Allyssa Grey
Editor: Allyssa Grey
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TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-25 06:20:45
October 25 2020 06:13 GMT
#2
Nice read again, but i strongly disagree with this

and while he managed to win a KSL, he has been unable to break into the Ro16 in ASL since Season 3 while falling short in ZvP and ZvZ, which should be considered his two best matchups.


I know you look at stats more than I do, but i always thought and still think SK real threat is his ZvT.

On the other hand, your perception on best:zero is interesting and i hope it can somehow happens. Rooting for Best is so painful though -.-
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
October 25 2020 07:50 GMT
#3
On October 25 2020 15:13 TornadoSteve wrote:
Nice read again, but i strongly disagree with this

Show nested quote +
and while he managed to win a KSL, he has been unable to break into the Ro16 in ASL since Season 3 while falling short in ZvP and ZvZ, which should be considered his two best matchups.


I know you look at stats more than I do, but i always thought and still think SK real threat is his ZvT.

On the other hand, your perception on best:zero is interesting and i hope it can somehow happens. Rooting for Best is so painful though -.-


For the record, I edited that in there (suspecting that probably someone would try to argue it down), so don't hate on BR for my spicy opinion. <3<3
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7764 Posts
October 25 2020 08:09 GMT
#4
Good writing!
But I am afraid I have to disagree

SK has a weak zvz unfortunately for him. Larva 3-1 in this match.

And Zero should win with 3-1 also against Best.
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Immaterial
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada510 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-25 09:29:01
October 25 2020 09:28 GMT
#5
Great preview post, thank you! I’m pumped for these series. I’d love for you to be right about BeSt but I’m not so sure
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4219 Posts
October 25 2020 10:06 GMT
#6
Best going throu is such a loooong shot. but I hope you're right. Zero needs to step off this notion that he is a league contender and get back to his old place in the pecking order. Plus, that would mean one less zerg thus reducing the possibility of a zvz final for this...

The only good thing of a zvz final would be that the maps would probably shift to something more normal instead of these zerg playgrounds with guaranteed thirds and all that.
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
October 25 2020 11:16 GMT
#7
I went best to win so bad. Would be a huge upset.
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7764 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-25 17:26:27
October 25 2020 16:04 GMT
#8
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 25 2020 17:09 prosatan wrote:
Good writing!
But I am afraid I have to disagree

SK has a weak zvz unfortunately for him. Larva 3-1 in this match.

And Zero should win with 3-1 also against Best.

Called it

Mod Edit: spoilers
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49889 Posts
October 25 2020 17:27 GMT
#9
You know we don't allow spoliers in the news thread.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania7764 Posts
October 25 2020 17:38 GMT
#10
On October 26 2020 02:27 BLinD-RawR wrote:
You know we don't allow spoliers in the news thread.

Sorrrrrryyyyy
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
Zeronova
Profile Joined September 2020
54 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-26 00:02:39
October 26 2020 00:00 GMT
#11
+ Show Spoiler +
i know I’m late to the party on this but I totally favored Larva in this ZvZ. How can you bet against him after he demolished Action? Larva has always been a macro beast and finally filled the holes in his game. Still favor Queen to win it all but my god Larva looks like a beast while it is depressing seeing how far Soulkey has fallen. Especially in clutch situations like this.


100% disagree on Best winning. I understand the logic. Best has single handedly made Dark Archons not just a meme but a dangerous tech switch. However, never bet against Zerg. Just look at the maps. Best will struggle to not get shut out. He will need tremendous luck to get out alive. And I’m sure Flash is his biggest fan right now. Facing Best as random is so much better than facing Queen. Not that I favor Flash as random over Larva. I’m sure Larva is praying for Best to win too.
HybridSpawn
Profile Joined March 2020
12 Posts
October 26 2020 00:48 GMT
#12
I am pretty new to watching some of the BW tournies. I have been watching for a while, but the scene is new to me. Are there some tournies that they don't take seriously? Like the last 'Ultimate Battle' which are considered show matches, but Best seemed to have the upper hand vs Z's in that. Just curious and any info is very appreciated
hiro protagonist
Profile Joined January 2009
1294 Posts
October 26 2020 00:53 GMT
#13
I mean, I would looooove it if this weird 1-2, to 2-2 upgrade style that best is showing off turns out to have legs to it and gives Zero a run for his money. It’s just that history and statistics are not on my side...

I’d be happy with a 3-2 outcome regardless of who comes out on top
"I guess if you climb enough off-widths, one of these days, your gonna get your knee stuck and shit your pants. Its just an odds thing really" -Jason Kruk
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11044 Posts
October 26 2020 03:41 GMT
#14
I would love best to surprise us but Zero is phenomenal and Best always cracks under real pressure. He's gonna get smoked.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2213 Posts
October 26 2020 03:59 GMT
#15
On October 26 2020 09:48 HybridSpawn wrote:
I am pretty new to watching some of the BW tournies. I have been watching for a while, but the scene is new to me. Are there some tournies that they don't take seriously? Like the last 'Ultimate Battle' which are considered show matches, but Best seemed to have the upper hand vs Z's in that. Just curious and any info is very appreciated

Ultimate Battle is indeed like a show match. ASL is the only premier BW tourney at the moment. KSL was the only other recent one during it's four season run. Liquipedia Brood War is a good information resource.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-26 12:49:06
October 26 2020 12:48 GMT
#16
On October 26 2020 09:48 HybridSpawn wrote:
I am pretty new to watching some of the BW tournies. I have been watching for a while, but the scene is new to me. Are there some tournies that they don't take seriously? Like the last 'Ultimate Battle' which are considered show matches, but Best seemed to have the upper hand vs Z's in that. Just curious and any info is very appreciated
At the moment only ASL is taken "seriously". There's a few sponsored matches, which with money on the line rather obviously are taken seriously by the individual players competing for the money.
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
October 26 2020 23:00 GMT
#17
When and where are the players map picks announced? Like how does this article + liquipedia know the Best v Zero maps? I can't seem to find the same information on any official afreeca pages (afreeca.tv / twitter).
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
kaspa84
Profile Joined July 2016
Brazil169 Posts
October 26 2020 23:33 GMT
#18
I will hope for the BeSt, but prepare for the worst.
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
October 26 2020 23:36 GMT
#19
On October 27 2020 08:00 Alur wrote:
When and where are the players map picks announced? Like how does this article + liquipedia know the Best v Zero maps? I can't seem to find the same information on any official afreeca pages (afreeca.tv / twitter).

We generally use namu.wiki, or at least I do.
WriterReV hwaiting!
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
October 27 2020 09:00 GMT
#20
thanks for the article and cool css stuff guys
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
ajmbek
Profile Joined November 2008
Italy460 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-27 17:30:35
October 27 2020 13:32 GMT
#21
+ Show Spoiler +
you could not be more wrong


Mod Edit : spoilers
Sic iter ad astra
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49889 Posts
October 27 2020 17:31 GMT
#22
+ Show Spoiler +
it happens, it's be boring if I was always right.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19208 Posts
October 28 2020 00:41 GMT
#23
On October 28 2020 02:31 BLinD-RawR wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
it happens, it's be boring if I was always right.

+ Show Spoiler +
Except the results of these two matches were more then obvious. You gotta maintain some credibility.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Zeronova
Profile Joined September 2020
54 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-29 02:21:49
October 29 2020 02:16 GMT
#24
+ Show Spoiler +
Can’t really blame the author for the ZvZ prediction. Even the best prediction he said was optimistic even with a 3-2 score. Seeing Best go down 0-3 was depressing. But I’m so hype for the possibility of Queen vs random Flash in the finals though

Also I think it’s worth saying what others have pointed out that Soulkey and especially Best looked amazing in recent show matches. It’s a shame it didn’t show in ASL though
orvinreyes
Profile Joined June 2007
577 Posts
October 29 2020 02:55 GMT
#25
go flash!

logged on after years... this is like a forum for just a handful of people now
http://youtu.be/LfmrHTdXgK4
EsportsJohn
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4883 Posts
October 29 2020 03:42 GMT
#26
On October 28 2020 09:41 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2020 02:31 BLinD-RawR wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
it happens, it's be boring if I was always right.

+ Show Spoiler +
Except the results of these two matches were more then obvious. You gotta maintain some credibility.


Hard disagree. Best was #2 on sponbbang at the time of writing with the highest PvZ rate. Artosis mentioned it in the cast that he has the second highest win rate vs Z in ASL after Bisu too.
StrategyAllyssa Grey <3<3
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19208 Posts
October 29 2020 06:18 GMT
#27
On October 29 2020 11:55 orvinreyes wrote:
go flash!

logged on after years... this is like a forum for just a handful of people now

Don’t let the posts indicate viewership. This thread has nearly 5k views. The LR thread for Ro8 day 1 has 26,000 views. The view count for the English VOD on YouTube is 100k. Less people definitely post on the site then before, but BW viewership is strong right now.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49889 Posts
October 29 2020 09:03 GMT
#28
forums in general are a bit outdated now.

also looking at my LB rank, my credibility is still very much intact, so I'll say it again, it happens.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
chuchutrain
Profile Joined May 2020
31 Posts
October 29 2020 13:53 GMT
#29
On October 29 2020 15:18 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2020 11:55 orvinreyes wrote:
go flash!

logged on after years... this is like a forum for just a handful of people now

Don’t let the posts indicate viewership. This thread has nearly 5k views. The LR thread for Ro8 day 1 has 26,000 views. The view count for the English VOD on YouTube is 100k. Less people definitely post on the site then before, but BW viewership is strong right now.


Honestly that makes me smile. I love the fact that for all the ups and downs, so many people are still enjoying themselves watching premier tourneys. Doesn't get much better than that.

I'm probably the def of a lurker (new account but my old one only had 100+ posts anyway) but it did use to be fun just reading pages and pages of LR. Alas, times have changed, but today is still good.
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
October 29 2020 14:35 GMT
#30
On October 27 2020 22:32 ajmbek wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
you could not be more wrong


Mod Edit : spoilers

+ Show Spoiler +
funnily enough, the Best vs Zero piece predicted the way the series looked quite accurately, just not the end result. It specifically states Zero is very likely to take sets 1 and 3 and that both players might want to use funny builds on the maps they are not statistically favored on. Best's gambit on Polypoid failed and Zero's worked on Plasma. Nobody would argue that Best would take the series after losing on Plasma. If people here predicted the builds players would come up with on specific maps and players themselves allowed to be surprised by them... Well, let's just say it would be really weird.
WriterReV hwaiting!
Antisocialmunky
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5912 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-29 15:54:58
October 29 2020 15:54 GMT
#31
TL was a small community before the late 2000s explosion in popularity with youtube casters. Just because its down since the TSL2/3 days is fine in my book. Its cozy.
[゚n゚] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605
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