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Flash's Rax Expand Into Bio Valkyrie Build Order
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SCWes
Canada74 Posts
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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xhibit
Germany18 Posts
On April 13 2020 14:07 Geographer wrote: Why would someone want to copy a losing build order? Well it showed very clear efficacy in the games even though he lost | ||
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SCWes
Canada74 Posts
On April 13 2020 14:07 Geographer wrote: Why would someone want to copy a losing build order? He won 2/3 games he did it on. | ||
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xhibit
Germany18 Posts
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xhibit
Germany18 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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SCWes
Canada74 Posts
On April 13 2020 16:28 Sawamura wrote: Cool build order. Just a question who writes down all the build order ? Me | ||
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Katkishka
United States658 Posts
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On April 13 2020 17:16 craz3d wrote: The casters kept saying Flash came up with it, but I remember Fantasy doing this before SC2, hell it might have even been called the Fantasy build... Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On April 13 2020 14:07 Geographer wrote: Why would someone want to copy a losing build order? Good thinking! It’s better to use only build orders with which nobody has ever lost. Edit: Yeah Fantasy was doing a little bit of bio+valk late in the KeSpA days. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
On April 13 2020 18:21 Cryoc wrote: Maybe you should check your history, the Fantasy build did mech with valks. This is bio with valks. He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here:  User:Cryoc/ValkonicThis was the original version of it though: Iloveoov Fake MechThere were some variations where people would go Goliath/Bio as well (I think all from SKT, including FanTaSy) which is what we see from FlaSh now. Sorry bought it back a few months ago and used it in some online tournaments and it appears FlaSh has been iterating on that. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8896 Posts
Maybe for terran players this will be good. You don't face Zero on the ladder, but most probably a less skilful player, so you have a better chance! Good luck ! | ||
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TelecoM
United States10726 Posts
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Moridin
Bulgaria167 Posts
You can check NukeTheStars (amazing channel btw) youtube vods on the MSL Final between Flash and Zero, where Flash owned him two games with same strategy which was not played much by Flash at that times, that is why it was surprising, same way as current games. Final games between the two from MSL 2011 finals: As a 15+ years fan of Flash who watched 95%+ of his games I saw Flash streamed matches just before the semi final and he was struggling a lot with his 2 barracks and teching build mainly on map 1 & 3 hence had this tickling feeling he will go with the valkyries again however he made uncharacteristic mistakes particularly in game2 with his goliath/bio build, well deserved and happy for Zero. | ||
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SCWes
Canada74 Posts
On April 13 2020 21:41 Moridin wrote: Not sure if the build is completely the same but Flash used it before (SPL/MSL/OSL times) somewhat often when mixing it up. Interesting fact when I watched the semis is that I believe Zero should be the one expecting it from Flash. You can check NukeTheStars (amazing channel btw) youtube vods on the MSL Final between Flash and Zero, where Flash owned him two games with same strategy which was not played much by Flash at that times, that is why it was surprising, same way as current games. Final games between the two from MSL 2011 finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3WYPcpetzg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgi8DGqn9_c As a 15+ years fan of Flash who watched 95%+ of his games I saw Flash streamed matches just before the semi final and he was struggling a lot with his 2 barracks and teching build mainly on map 1 & 3 hence had this tickling feeling he will go with the valkyries again however he made uncharacteristic mistakes particularly in game2 with his goliath/bio build, well deserved and happy for Zero. Damn, I really miss NukeTheStars. | ||
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria409 Posts
On April 13 2020 13:50 SCWes wrote: Can find it here Best viewed at 100% 1920x1080 if you push F11 when viewing it Thank you for the effort.  Much appreciated. | ||
EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 13 2020 19:17 Qikz wrote: He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/ValkonicLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL rekt I find it very odd that Flash skips a vulture with this build. I feel like the scouting information and pressure you get from the vulture is vital to keeping the Zerg honest and preventing them from cutting corners so they can get fast mutas, a 3rd base, and nonstop drones all at the same time. EDIT: Also, kudos to the OP for putting together this doc! I used to track build orders from SC2, so I know how much work goes into this. | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
Get rekt yourself, he just screams Fantasy and spouting nonsense without having a clue. The build order, I wrote down there was from the ABC Mart finals Flash vs Zero, where Flash did this multiple times. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12041 Posts
On April 14 2020 04:42 Cryoc wrote: Get rekt yourself, he just screams Fantasy and spouting nonsense without having a clue. The build order, I wrote down there was from the ABC Mart finals Flash vs Zero, where Flash did this multiple times. I wasn't trying to burn you or anything, I just found the build order back then. Oov Fake mech was first though ^^ <3 | ||
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TJbla2e
5 Posts
Wish there were more build orders for Zerg, hydra boost is just a small part of Zerg's repertoire | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On April 14 2020 04:53 Qikz wrote: I wasn't trying to burn you or anything, I just found the build order back then. Oov Fake mech was first though ^^ <3 No harm, no foul, it's just the typical internet these days, someone makes unsubstantiated claims and the next clueless person picks it up and you get reactions like this. If you mean using valks combined with bio in general, you are probably right. But I don't remember anyone ever going valkyries with Rax FE vs 2 Hatch, only with Fac FE. | ||
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TT1
Canada10039 Posts
and he only lost with it because he forced the build on Hitchhiker (made tanks which weakened his comp), that wasn't a good map for his b.o Valk b.o is good on standard maps (vs 2h) where z can't take a backdoor exp. That said, u need to macro perfectly while babysitting your army after you move out. Your multitask gets tested post move out. The key thing with his b.o that sets it a part from previous versions is Flash's double scv scout (this is the main adjustment he made to the build). If you can't confirm that Z made a spire you have to respect the threat of a lurk bust. You can't tech up to valks blindly without any scouting info (aca is obviously delayed for eco boost so you won't have scans). Flash excels at optimizing builds, he'll tweak an old build to gain a edge in an attempt to break the current meta/put his opponents in an uncomfortable spot. Imagine going to a tourney and having your most standard b.o hard countered, that's a terrible feeling. In that scenario, you have to be smart/experienced enough to adjust on the fly to avoid getting b.o bullied by Flash (which is what ZerO did on Sylphid). Without any scv scouting info you have to change the build to what Flash did on Sylphid, he tried to turn it into more of a "catch all build" by accounting for both mutas and lurks. Still wasn't enough tho, maybe 2 bunks @ his nat woulda been enough but that would have weakened his mech play vs mutas. | ||
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Models
Canada88 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On April 14 2020 06:54 Models wrote: I know for a fact who actually came up with this build order (they're on my friends list) and newsflash, it wasn't FLASH! This build is optimal vs muta but actually insanely strong vs lurker openings too, denying the z ability to morph lurkers by hunting ovies with valks is insanely OP. This is a very 2004 Battle.net clan channel comment. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On April 13 2020 19:17 Qikz wrote: He also did Valks with bio - you even wrote down the build order here: User:Cryoc/ValkonicThis was the original version of it though: Iloveoov Fake MechThere were some variations where people would go Goliath/Bio as well (I think all from SKT, including FanTaSy) which is what we see from FlaSh now. Sorry bought it back a few months ago and used it in some online tournaments and it appears FlaSh has been iterating on that. Are the previous valk builds the same? I was under the impression that they were weak to 2 hatch mutas, not a counter to 2 hatch mutas. It's even stated as so in the wiki : User:Cryoc/Valkonic | ||
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zoNin
Canada57 Posts
I didn't compare the build orders but it uses valkyries and bio which has happened long before these games FlaSh played | ||
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Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On April 14 2020 10:42 JieXian wrote: Are the previous valk builds the same? I was under the impression that they were weak to 2 hatch mutas, not a counter to 2 hatch mutas. It's even stated as so in the wiki : https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/User:Cryoc/Valkonic They are for sure different, since the build I wrote down gets turrets at like 6:30 when 2 Hatch mutas would be in your face already. | ||
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fr)Allister
6 Posts
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zoNin
Canada57 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On April 14 2020 17:04 zoNin wrote: lol it was Artosis whispering and he said "Don't see that every game" not what you think But it is good thing. Effort caused Flash build two science facilities and Zero cancel control tower. Judging from yesterday, Flash played a long Sk-terrangame against Larva so it was not healthissue that caused this build to surface. | ||
TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On April 14 2020 18:17 TaardadAiel wrote: I remember Last using a valk/bio build plus tanks and went for macro against Soulkey on Autobahn several seasons ago, I suppose it was ASL6. I'll check the game later, since I don't recall neither opener. You mean this game against Soulkey? It was normal 2 rax academy but instead of vessels Last went first valkyries. | ||
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att
128 Posts
On April 14 2020 06:54 Models wrote: I know for a fact who actually came up with this build order (they're on my friends list) and newsflash, it wasn't FLASH! This build is optimal vs muta but actually insanely strong vs lurker openings too, denying the z ability to morph lurkers by hunting ovies with valks is insanely OP. Ehh.. Valks arent really that good vs overlords. Wraiths do more DPS than wraiths, and theyre cheaper, and theyre earlier in the tech tree. If terran wants to hunt overlords, they can just go with the 1-1-1 build and hunt overlords with the wraiths from the starport. | ||
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On April 14 2020 18:52 whaski wrote: https://youtu.be/ocLFfamNNYU You mean this game against Soulkey? It was normal 2 rax academy but instead of vessels Last went first valkyries. Yeah, this one. I did not remember the openers. I watched it now, what a crazy late game :D Last's comp was all over the tech tree | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden543 Posts
On April 14 2020 18:58 att wrote: Ehh.. Valks arent really that good vs overlords. Wraiths do more DPS than wraiths, and theyre cheaper, and theyre earlier in the tech tree. If terran wants to hunt overlords, they can just go with the 1-1-1 build and hunt overlords with the wraiths from the starport. but valks shoot more missiles than wraiths so it deals more damage ok? | ||
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ChiefSC
Germany29 Posts
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Master of DalK
Canada1803 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On April 14 2020 11:55 zoNin wrote: Isn't this just the Valkonic build? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdhNtIGaxKY I didn't compare the build orders but it uses valkyries and bio which has happened long before these games FlaSh played Hey I have recently come back to play broodwar and was looking for build orders. Are there more youtube channels that pro gamers are sharing their build order for Terran or other races ? Thanks. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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onlystar
United States971 Posts
On April 13 2020 14:07 Geographer wrote: Why would someone want to copy a losing build order? lmao im stunned by the naivety... yeah why would you copy a build from FlaSh the guy is such a failure.. complete amateur he cant make builds! he lost with it i know right so stupid!.. | ||
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