KSL results have started to spill in and we’ve had a… well kinda lackluster Ro8 if I do say so myself. Only 1 game was dropped by the semifinalists, and it seems awkward that the best match was the ZvZ. To be fair, the bracket RNG was pretty awful this time around, but at least every semifinalist is a pretty solid player. With that out of the way, let’s jump right in, shall we? Also, shoutouts to Ty2 for covering for me last month due to life obligations!
#1: EffOrt (No Change)
Since EffOrt hasn’t really played since his ASL victory, we can only really rely on his sponmatches. Specifically, his form against FlaSh, Last, and Rain are what we want to look at to determine if his ASL run was just a one-off or has he been playing consistent Starcraft. Against FlaSh, he is 1-5 this month, not a very flattering record to say the least. But EffOrt has never really been the strongest sponmatch player, always hovering between 3rd-7th so I can’t really say much. If he has another bad month against FlaSh in sponmatches, I could see him sliding down a place. But otherwise, everything else looks good and he’s got great win-rates in ZvP and ZvZ.
#2: FlaSh (No Change)
Similarly with the EffOrt portion, FlaSh hasn’t played offline, but he’s been excellent in sponmatches. The only blemish on his 80% across all matchups win-rate is going 0-2 against Last. Otherwise, I can’t find a reason to move him down, so he stays for now. I hope to see FlaSh playing in more tournaments to get a better feel for how he has rebounded after his loss to EffOrt, but I guess we’ll probably have to wait until the next ASL. If he has another great month of sponmatches, especially over EffOrt like the 5-1 record we saw for this month, then I might give him the nod for #1.
#3: Rain (No Change)
Rain’s play in the KSL has thus far been fairly solid. His clean sweep over Where in their series, while not too impressive with the… questionable build choices from Where, still shows that he has at least improved his ability to hold off Zerg all-ins. His biggest test is still a more macro-oriented series against better ZvP players such as Soulkey or Larva, but at the very least, his play will retain him his spot at #3 over Last. His series against Leta, while funny, was not the greatest showing in Game 1, where he had a very poor read on the game and fell behind to early vulture drops. At the very least, he managed to clean the game up after Leta decided to go ghosts and nukes, but that was more Leta wanting to be a creative player and try something rather than being a more solid Terran and ending the game when he had the chance to. The expected clean sweep cements Rain at #3 this month, and a matchup against Sharp in the semifinals should mean another Finals appearance for the former SKT Protoss.
#4: Last (No Change)
Last hasn’t shown me anything that would warrant him dropping down a place. And I think that his series against Where really showed his defensive prowess in the TvZ matchup. When it all seemed lost for him in Game 1 of his Ro8 match, he managed to hold on for dear life and recover from a seemingly insurmountable deficit. The rest of that series was just another day in the office. His upcoming battle against Soulkey in a semifinals rematch from KSL1 is going to be a very exciting matchup that will really test Last’s TvZ. As mentioned in an interview with him at Blizzcon, he mentioned that watching EffOrt’s series against FlaSh allowed him to see where he can improve upon his 1-1-1 build. It is sure to be an explosive series that will be heavily watched by the viewers.
#5: Soulkey (+1)
Soulkey moves up a rank here for his fantastic play against Larva. What most impressed me about his victory was that after losing with his 9p against Larva’s 12p in Game 1, he continued the same route in Game 2, but made small adjustments that allowed him to take control of the series. Ensuring strong defense against the zergling attacks in both Game 2 and 3 really showed me that his BoX preparation and adjustment has improved. A grueling group stage that included a 0-3 loss to Mind is sure to see him go back to the drawing board for his ZvT, especially with Last looming on the horizon for their date in the semifinals. I do think that his ZvP looked a little weak against Mini in their first series, but he managed to clean it up in time for their final match to advance through. Being #2 in the sponmatches for the month of November doesn’t hurt either, even going 5-5 against FlaSh.
#6: Sharp (+2)
Sharp has continued to be a consistent player, following his Ro8 finish in ASL6 with a semifinals appearance in KSL2. And for once, it wasn’t solely on the back of his trademark TvT, but also from his TvP. Defeating both Movie and Jaehoon is no easy feat for Sharp, whose TvP has started to look rather respectable lately. If this is any indication of Sharp’s projected future, I’m very much happy to see another Terran player who can stand up to Protoss. And the games he’s been playing have been very good, even the games that he lost. His defense against carriers obviously can improve with 2 of his 3 losses coming at the hands of the golden armada, but his all-around game looked solid. Everything from the FD, 4 fact, and standard 2-1 timing was out on full display by the former Samsung Terran. His reaver and DT defense wasn’t shabby either. His real test is obviously his semifinals match against #1 Protoss, Rain, but if he can make a series out of it, I would be pleasantly impressed. Perhaps Sharp will finally be the 3rd consistent Terran behind FlaSh and Last.
#7: Shuttle (-2)
Shuttle has had a quiet month since his 4th place finish in ASL. Nothing notable from him in sponmatches with a mediocre 12th place in the month of November, but that doesn’t really say a whole lot either, so he’ll slide down a couple spots to players who have been performing rather well at the KSL and are above him in sponmatches. I think he’s still better than everyone else below him, and you could make an argument with him against Sharp, but it’s fair to say that Soulkey has potentially gotten over the rut he was in and deserves to move up.
#8: Mini (+1)
Mini moves up one spot mainly because Action left the top 10 and was replaced by Where who takes the #9 spot. I don’t have Where above Mini here even though he made it into the Ro8 for a few reasons. First, Mini had to go through a PvZ gauntlet, any Protoss nightmare unless your name is Kim Taek Yong. Second, he had to play against Soulkey twice, a very strong ZvP player. Third, I still think he’s a more consistent player right now, though Where is showing that he is slowly getting better. I still think that if you had to pick Mini or Where in a tournament before any seeding is determined, I’m still going with Mini 9 times out of 10. Yes, his series against Soulkey didn’t look the cleanest with his overambitious use of in-base gateways (and he did the same a few times against Killer), but I think he’s trying things out to see if they work to understand the matchup a bit better. There are noticeable small things that he’s doing such as being very proactive with corsair scouting (Game 4 vs Killer). Overall, I’m going to give the veteran a bit more leeway this month to hold onto his spot, and I hope he returns strong for the next ASL.
#9: Where (New)
I think Where has performed enough to get the nod over Light in this position, especially with his victory over him in the final match of the group stage. To me, it wouldn’t make a whole lot of sense for him to be at #10 instead of #9 for this month. Does Light have the longevity over Where? Sure, but Light’s only good matchup is still TvZ while Where showed that he has good matchups in both ZvZ and ZvT. His ZvP still needs some work after getting crushed 0-3 by Rain with weird builds, but against other Protoss players, I think Where would fair much better. Perhaps it was nerves that got to him which caused him to go for questionable builds, but nonetheless, Where has been improving since his first entrance way back in ASL2. Also, it doesn’t hurt to win a good chunk of money at the Moscow LAN, beating fellow Koreans, Sharp and Shine. It doesn’t really make or break his ranking though, but it’s a nice confidence booster for him.
#10: Light (No Change)
This last one was tough between Light and Mind. I think you can make an argument either way, so really if you have Mind here and want to disagree with me on this, I’ll concede all valid points. But let’s take a look at why I think Light barely edges out Mind. Yes, Light couldn’t execute in his specialty matchup while Mind did. Point to Mind. But Light’s TvP has been improving steadily over the past month. In sponmatches, Light had solid records of 4-6 and 6-5 against Rain and Snow respectively. Point to Light. Oh and did I mention that he’s in the top 5 for sponmatches as well whereas Mind is down at #15. Another point to Light. Am I weighing sponmatches pretty heavily here? Sorta. But it’s more about the projection that I see in Light that Mind doesn’t really have. I think both of their TvT matchups are bad still, though Light managed to 3-0 Sharp in sponmatches for November. But if Light can show that his slip up against Where was a one-time thing, I’m willing to give him a pass to show me what he has next month. But he’s on a short leash. A very short leash. If he doesn’t perform next month, don’t be surprised to see him fall to CBNC.
-- Close But No Cigar (CBNC) ---
Mind: Mind played some nice Starcraft to advance to the Ro8 in the KSL, but unfortunately he hasn’t shown me anything that is new. His TvZ is still his specialty. Obviously beating Soulkey 3-0 is a very impressive feat, but his other matchups are still floundering. If he can’t show me that he can improve his weaker matchups, he won’t crack the top 10.
Action: As mentioned in the November PR, Action needed to not stray too close to the sun to avoid getting burned. And unfortunately, that’s exactly what happened after two disappointing series against Where and Light, and thus he slips out of our top 10.
Larva: Larva is in CBNC for a couple of reasons. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt since we all know Larva’s potential as a player. His series against Sharp and Jaehoon did not look that great though, always going to 5 games when I feel like a player of his caliber should be cleaning up a player like Jaehoon in a clean sweep. Stay on the lookout as Larva returns from his brief hiatus though, and don’t be surprised to see him return to the top 10 next month.
Writer: FlaShFTW Graphics: v1 Editors: Bigfan Photo Credits: Blizzard Entertainment
On December 04 2018 01:31 RWLabs wrote: We live in an era where we can unsarcastically say Sharp and Light are one of the top five Terrans. Wow.
Even in the KESPA era Light was always around the top 5 T players. His TvZ was fantastic, probably second only to Flash. Although he's always been a much better single match player than a BoX player so he often ranked #2 or #3 for Terrans in proleague but only rarely made it past the Ro8 in individual leagues.
Sharp and Light both had their glaring weaknesses though. Sharp was known for being only a TvT expert, and Light a TvZ expert. Both had a notorious reputation for being manhandled by Protoss. It's good to see them rounded more.
In the case of Sharp especially his nickname was "cooked croaker" because he was easily beat and the first two parts of his name is the fish's name ('조기'석).
On December 04 2018 01:59 razorsuKe wrote: Well if that's the case, you should be really surprised that Last is a top 3 player, he was a complete nobody during the Kespa days.
Back then his only defining feature was his Blonde, almost yellow hair
I was more talking about the post-Kespa scene. Last hit his stride fairly early on, whereas Sharp and Light were viewed as weak until fairly recently. Even Sharp's 2nd place finish in ASL was when Terrans were everywhere and he could get by with his TvT.
shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
On December 04 2018 03:59 Cele wrote: shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds.
I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked.
You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher.
On December 04 2018 01:31 RWLabs wrote: We live in an era where we can unsarcastically say Sharp and Light are one of the top five Terrans. Wow.
If we think of good Terrans right before SC2, I think Sharp could be a pleasant surprise but Light was always a notoriously good SPL player. There's a reason MBC Game was super good back in the day for proleague formats.
But also because a lot of the Terran skill has either left or deteriorated, so we have new faces to take their spots. I think Letmelose can do something more indepth about this but before it was FlaSh, Fantasy, Sea, Light, Leta and then the next tier with Mind, Baby, Bogus, Really, Reality, etc.
We had to replace Fantasy with Last, and Sea and Leta have both fallen off, so Sharp took over their spot. Bogus and TY both left for SC2, while Really and Reality I have no idea where they are now. So yeah, it makes sense to me that Sharp has risen when he was here when the post-KeSPA era started and has been readily trying to improve. His TvT is great, his TvZ isn't too shabby (he can consistently get decent Zerg kills in KCM), and he's potentially started fixing his TvP so I'm excited for him.
On December 04 2018 06:56 XenOsky wrote: how can you guys keep track of spon matches? is there a site with the results or you do it by just watching their streams?
Jaedong loses an ASL group decider match against FlaSh after making the finals of KSL 1 and hasn't played since and now he isn't even mentioned on the PR ):
I don't think that's right. I can't see how Where/Larva/Action should be ranked higher than him. Did I miss something? I understand it has been a while since he played but he didn't play in KSL because he expected to make a deep ASL run. I feel it is unfair to punish him like that.
Also I thought the ro8 matches were good. Leta vs Rain was as fun/exciting as was promised. Leta even made (and launched) a nuke. The ZvZ was close, and Sharp vs Mind, was also a lot of fun (although TvT is my favorite matchup so I could be biased).
On December 04 2018 08:17 Rodya wrote: Jaedong loses an ASL group decider match against FlaSh after making the finals of KSL 1 and hasn't played since and now he isn't even mentioned on the PR ):
I don't think that's right. I can't see how Where/Larva/Action should be ranked higher than him. Did I miss something? I understand it has been a while since he played but he didn't play in KSL because he expected to make a deep ASL run. I feel it is unfair to punish him like that.
Also I thought the ro8 matches were good. Leta vs Rain was as fun/exciting as was promised. Leta even made (and launched) a nuke. The ZvZ was close, and Sharp vs Mind, was also a lot of fun (although TvT is my favorite matchup so I could be biased).
I based this PR off of Ty2's PR. JD was in CBNC last PR so to me it makes sense for him to not be included in CBNC this PR if he hasn't played and he's also pretty far down in sponmatches too.
Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
On December 04 2018 06:56 XenOsky wrote: how can you guys keep track of spon matches? is there a site with the results or you do it by just watching their streams?
basically afreeca viewers can organize a boX match between 2 players by sponsoring the prize purse of afreeca balloons. eg. i put up 500 balloons to get flash vs effort in a bo3. whoever wins the series gets the 500 balloons.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world.
hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan.
He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too.
Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments.
On December 04 2018 03:59 Cele wrote: shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds.
I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked.
You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher.
i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine.
regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that!
On December 04 2018 03:59 Cele wrote: shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds.
I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked.
You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher.
i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine.
regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that!
Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see.
Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too.
Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^
On December 04 2018 03:59 Cele wrote: shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds.
I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked.
You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher.
i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine.
regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that!
Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see.
Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too.
Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^
To preface: we can agree to disagree, but while we do, let's exchange ideas, i enjoy that :D
Saying that Effort will sink again is speculative. Yes he has done so in the past, but as we saw he can be back on point when he needs to be. Players simply use their off time, when not preparing for an big event differently, i would not make that a judgement point.
I think the PR should try to lean on hard empirical data as much as possible, simply coz we all have a bias, it's pretty normal.
I extend the subjectivity arguement to Flash's aura aswell. Ofc he is one of the greatest players of all time, but that does not relate to his current form in any way. Other competitors also tend to praise sport legends more than necessary, simply because it's an expected thing. You cannot go wrong in an interview if you say how great messi is, even if hus recent performance has been sup par recently. But you can very well, as a team member for instance, by pointing out he has been underperforming.
So, with all due respect, i'll leave those very subjective persoectives out of the equation. Whats measurable? Efforr ->Flash in ASL finals. Flash-> effortin one sponmatch. To me, that makes it pretty obvious.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world.
hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan.
He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too.
Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments.
I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world.
hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan.
He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too.
Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments.
I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th.
Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced.
To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world.
hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan.
He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too.
Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments.
I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th.
Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced.
To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue.
What months of what years was the sonic era? I may not have followed the scene at that time. Modesty dude has a 35% winrate in 2 out of 3 matchups that’s all I’m saying lol. Peak kwanro was probably better than current miso, ill acknowledge that point, but I feel like those games are so dated they don’t matter now. I didn’t watch that vant star league but it looks like effort won it and modesty/kwanro didn’t even place? Not to start a big argument about it I don’t really care , just saying I like where if he put more work into his game he could probably win gold in some asl/ksl.
On December 04 2018 03:59 Cele wrote: shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds.
I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked.
You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher.
i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine.
regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that!
Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see.
Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too.
Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^
To preface: we can agree to disagree, but while we do, let's exchange ideas, i enjoy that :D
Saying that Effort will sink again is speculative. Yes he has done so in the past, but as we saw he can be back on point when he needs to be. Players simply use their off time, when not preparing for an big event differently, i would not make that a judgement point.
I think the PR should try to lean on hard empirical data as much as possible, simply coz we all have a bias, it's pretty normal.
I extend the subjectivity arguement to Flash's aura aswell. Ofc he is one of the greatest players of all time, but that does not relate to his current form in any way. Other competitors also tend to praise sport legends more than necessary, simply because it's an expected thing. You cannot go wrong in an interview if you say how great messi is, even if hus recent performance has been sup par recently. But you can very well, as a team member for instance, by pointing out he has been underperforming.
So, with all due respect, i'll leave those very subjective persoectives out of the equation. Whats measurable? Efforr ->Flash in ASL finals. Flash-> effortin one sponmatch. To me, that makes it pretty obvious.
Sorry, should've been more clear. I'm not actually interested in starting a debate over this because in the end, it's subjective regardless of which route you go for. In other words, whether you chose EffOrt over Flash or Flash over EffOrt, it honestly just doesn't matter here because we have only so much information to go on, and it comes down to what you weight more. For me, as it stands, Flash is at #1. That's all there is to it.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world.
hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan.
He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too.
Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments.
I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th.
Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced.
To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue.
you're not wrong. Kwanro went to the finals in the actual KSL back in 2015 and lost to Mind 4-1 when we had Avalon in play. He beat Bisu 2-0 on the way haha. I think Miso is improving a lot lately much like Sharp, and him beating Action and Light is evidence of that imo. Having said that, he's still not a top tier pro, and I don't think he'll make Top 4 with the current lineup of expros, but there's always a possibility that the brackets will work in his favour, and he'll make a run to the finals like Sharp did with TvT in ASL1. Should be good to see how far he goes in future tournaments.
Good to see sharp moving on up. He used to be very close to my most hated terran once upon a time, it made me annoyed seeing him repeatedly come up against more exciting opponents who were willing to take tactical risks, and just roll over them with his good but unexciting mechanics play. He's really honed that to a fine machine though, and these days he's a lot more interesting to watch. Hope he does well in the rest of the KSL, rain's gonna really put him through his paces.
On December 04 2018 03:59 Cele wrote: shouldn't your PR deteriorate or somethin if your not playing? Dunno i was fine with Flash beeing #2 after he played the ASL Finals and such, but him just playing sponmatches, however well, doesn't really warant to have no movement at all. Rain is playing a strong KSL at least.
Also other questions @ PR writers: do you rank ASL and KSL roughly the same as accomplishments for the PR or do you rank ASL eversoslightly higher?
To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds.
I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked.
You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher.
i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine.
regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that!
Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see.
Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too.
Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^
Feared by who? you? ^^ It doesn't mean anything. Preparing an ASL final and a sponso match is 2 different things. I mean did he even prepared anyway? You' re annoying with your aura stuff man, it's all in your head, please keep making article and stay away from power ranking.
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall.
of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary
On December 04 2018 18:47 FlaShFTW wrote:
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world.
hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan.
He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too.
Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments.
I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th.
Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced.
To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue.
What months of what years was the sonic era? I may not have followed the scene at that time. Modesty dude has a 35% winrate in 2 out of 3 matchups that’s all I’m saying lol. Peak kwanro was probably better than current miso, ill acknowledge that point, but I feel like those games are so dated they don’t matter now. I didn’t watch that vant star league but it looks like effort won it and modesty/kwanro didn’t even place? Not to start a big argument about it I don’t really care , just saying I like where if he put more work into his game he could probably win gold in some asl/ksl.
In 2014, the first half of the year was the year of Modesty. His play was phenomenal at a time and he broke every matchup. He averaged above a 60% winrate in all his matchups and an amazing 68.57% winrate versus Terran.
Modesty has participated in several tournaments. He played in the 9th SonicTV Starleague where he managed to finish first in his Round of 32 group. In the Round of 16, he finished last in a group containing hero, Movie and Sea. In 41 Starleague Season 1, Modesty went on a dominant run taking down Larva, Mong, Sky and Midas in the group stages. In the elimination stage, he defeated Mong and Midas again then 4-0'd hero in the finals to win first place dropping only a single game along the way. In LoveTV Starleague Season 2, he managed to make it to the finals again beating players such as Hiya, Mong and sSak but took only second place after getting 4-1'd by Killer.
In 2014 Gabangpop 1st Sonic Proleague, Modesty played under the ex-KT tag. He was an invaluable member as he helped ex-KT secure first place. He finished with a 16-7 record with wins over notable players such as free, PianO and sSak. He would finish as the top ranked player in Proleague after 8 weeks of play. As it stands, Modesty is among the best Zergs in the post-KeSPA era on TLPD when it comes to ZvT, netting wins over formidable Terran players with his current ZvT record sitting at 72%.
2014 was an entire black year for me where I was physically sick for like 9months and probably didn’t read the news or TL even once. Thanks for the info lol
On December 06 2018 01:45 Yanokabo wrote: 2014 was an entire black year for me where I was physically sick for like 9months and probably didn’t read the news or TL even once. Thanks for the info lol
No problem! Sorry about your health. I casted every game that year (a lot with AmazingXKCD). Sadly most of the vods I made from then were lost due to twitch changes. 2013 was a year that created one of the greatest rivalries in Brood Wars history. The outright domination from Killer and Sea as they continued to meet in Sonic Tournaments was crazy. But then came 2014 and new titans began to emerge. Modesty as mentioned above, but most notably Zero and by.Hero for Zergs, Bisu as protoss, and Mind as Terran. These players breathed new life into the post-Kespa era and started to make you think, "Brood War is back".
Where should be: "Also, it doesn’t hurt to win a good chunk of money at the Moscow LAN, beating fellow Koreans, Sharp and Shine. It doesn’t really make or break his ranking though, but a liter of vodka does" 👍
On December 26 2018 04:03 crbox wrote: I’m watching BW streams every night and I know those aren’t official games or whatever, but Soulkey seems to be in good form right now.
Also Larva should be WAY higher, he’s crushing left and right (think he went 15-4) against Mini?
Dunno how researched this list is or maybe you just don’t take offline in consideration as much, but I think this list is kind of off (no offense!)
you also realize youre making this comment 26 days after it was released...
also you say "offline". pretty sure you mean online.
On December 26 2018 04:03 crbox wrote: I’m watching BW streams every night and I know those aren’t official games or whatever, but Soulkey seems to be in good form right now.
Also Larva should be WAY higher, he’s crushing left and right (think he went 15-4) against Mini?
Dunno how researched this list is or maybe you just don’t take offline in consideration as much, but I think this list is kind of off (no offense!)
you also realize youre making this comment 26 days after it was released...
also you say "offline". pretty sure you mean online.
EPT
(No Change)![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Effort.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/prech/files/RaceIcons/Ticon_pastel_Hyde.png)
(No Change)![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/staff/BigFan/Flash.jpg)
(No Change)![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Rain.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Last.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Soulkey.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Sharp.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Shuttle.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Mini.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Miso.jpg)
![[image loading]](/staff/BigFan/ASL_PR/Light.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/d/d5/LastBIO.jpg)
thank you for writing up this article. it makes me enjoy KSL even more 
Modesty
