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reps)Plumbum
Russian Federation484 Posts
On December 04 2018 08:14 tanngard wrote: This is the official site: http://sponbbang.com/bj/ You can switch from korean to english by clicking an icon in the top right corner. Can you please explain in few words - what are sponsored matches? Sadly i know nothing about it. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10231 Posts
On December 04 2018 17:31 Ej_ wrote: We live in the times when Miso is in the top 10 of BW players in the world. hey man he's improved a lot. I'm a fan. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall. of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary  He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19297 Posts
On December 04 2018 19:55 JieXian wrote: of course you would, not doing it would be out of the ordinary He got owned by Last, but he's Last. I was impressed by Miso's play too. Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments. | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On December 04 2018 06:14 FlaShFTW wrote: To your first part, I did that initially with the first two editions of the PR, having FlaSh not even in the top 10 because of not playing at all during the month, and slid people down a ton for not playing like Jaedong after his KSL run. People got pissed at me for that. So no, I try not to have too much deterioration. If it's multiple months in a row or if a player says they will not play mostly like Larva for KSL1 and after ASL6, I slide them further down. Can't please everyone, but this is what I've decided on. I agree that Rain has looked quite strong thus far but he's also had to play against two very weak TvP players, Light and Leta, and his PvZ wasn't really tested against Where because of those wonky builds. I rank ASL slightly higher because it is the more prestigious event and also mainly because players like FlaSh, EffOrt, Jaedong don't partake in the KSL which means the overall skill depth is a lot lower for KSL. I think the gap between OSL and MSL is smaller than the gap between ASL and KSL as an example, but if someone placed like 4th in ASL vs someone who placed 2nd at KSL, I'd still put the guy who got 2nd at KSL higher probably. But also depends on depth of tournament. Like Leta made the Ro8 for this KSL, I think that's a joke. The ASL6 was absolutely stacked. You lost EffOrt, FlaSh, Action, Shuttle, Mini and replaced them with Soulkey, Where, Mind, Leta, and Larva. If you ranked them all in order of skill so EffOrt, FlaSh, Shuttle, Mini, Action vs Soulkey, Larva, Where, Mind, Leta, every player in the ASL lineup is better than every player in the KSL lineup. So yes, ASL is ranked slightly higher. i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine. regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense. On December 04 2018 08:52 BigFan wrote: Pretty good PR imo. I may have moved EffOrt down to the second slot, and put Flash in first but otherwise, pretty decent overall with the explanations, and movements overall. putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that! | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 05 2018 03:30 Cele wrote: i think you should write the PR how you think it is right and not the way that creates the least backlash. But if you think it is they way you currently do, then yeah fine. regarding ASL <-> KSL: i agree ASL is slightly more prestigious than KSL and i would also rank it slightly higher. In tiebreaker situations where 2 players have placed the same rank in ASL and KSL for instance, it would be a deciding factor for me. To me, the gap is not really that big. Perhaps a bit more than OSL <-> MSL but a good bit smaller then MSL<-> GomTV Classic. GomTV Classic was so notably on a different level, it was some debate back then if it could be called a starleague even. But i think it is common consense nowadays than it wasn't a proper Starleague in that sense. putting the reigning ASL Champ who won over Flash in an intense Finals second to Flash? I can't get behind that! Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see. Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too. Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^ | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On December 05 2018 03:53 BigFan wrote: Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see. Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too. Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^ To preface: we can agree to disagree, but while we do, let's exchange ideas, i enjoy that :D Saying that Effort will sink again is speculative. Yes he has done so in the past, but as we saw he can be back on point when he needs to be. Players simply use their off time, when not preparing for an big event differently, i would not make that a judgement point. I think the PR should try to lean on hard empirical data as much as possible, simply coz we all have a bias, it's pretty normal. I extend the subjectivity arguement to Flash's aura aswell. Ofc he is one of the greatest players of all time, but that does not relate to his current form in any way. Other competitors also tend to praise sport legends more than necessary, simply because it's an expected thing. You cannot go wrong in an interview if you say how great messi is, even if hus recent performance has been sup par recently. But you can very well, as a team member for instance, by pointing out he has been underperforming. So, with all due respect, i'll leave those very subjective persoectives out of the equation. Whats measurable? Efforr ->Flash in ASL finals. Flash-> effortin one sponmatch. To me, that makes it pretty obvious. | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
On December 04 2018 21:21 BisuDagger wrote: Miso play's like a mix of Modesty (if you watched Modesty's half year of hive tech vT domination during the Sonic era) and Kwanro. However, I think he falls short of being as good at either of those two player's strength. I'm pessimistic he will improve from his current form, but am impressed by his persistence to remain a threat in these tournaments. I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19297 Posts
On December 05 2018 07:40 Yanokabo wrote: I want some of whatever you’re smoking. Miso >>> modesty and Kwanro retired so long ago I don’t see how that’s a valid comparison lol. Miso has potential to be the best Zerg in the scene right now and he’s basically tied for 3rd-5th with people like larva and Soulkey. Jd effort are the only two zergs clearly above him imo and he trained with jaedong. Modesty is down at like 9-10th. Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced. To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue. | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
On December 05 2018 07:49 BisuDagger wrote: Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced. To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue. What months of what years was the sonic era? I may not have followed the scene at that time. Modesty dude has a 35% winrate in 2 out of 3 matchups that’s all I’m saying lol. Peak kwanro was probably better than current miso, ill acknowledge that point, but I feel like those games are so dated they don’t matter now. I didn’t watch that vant star league but it looks like effort won it and modesty/kwanro didn’t even place? Not to start a big argument about it I don’t really care , just saying I like where if he put more work into his game he could probably win gold in some asl/ksl. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On December 05 2018 06:31 Cele wrote: To preface: we can agree to disagree, but while we do, let's exchange ideas, i enjoy that :D Saying that Effort will sink again is speculative. Yes he has done so in the past, but as we saw he can be back on point when he needs to be. Players simply use their off time, when not preparing for an big event differently, i would not make that a judgement point. I think the PR should try to lean on hard empirical data as much as possible, simply coz we all have a bias, it's pretty normal. I extend the subjectivity arguement to Flash's aura aswell. Ofc he is one of the greatest players of all time, but that does not relate to his current form in any way. Other competitors also tend to praise sport legends more than necessary, simply because it's an expected thing. You cannot go wrong in an interview if you say how great messi is, even if hus recent performance has been sup par recently. But you can very well, as a team member for instance, by pointing out he has been underperforming. So, with all due respect, i'll leave those very subjective persoectives out of the equation. Whats measurable? Efforr ->Flash in ASL finals. Flash-> effortin one sponmatch. To me, that makes it pretty obvious. Sorry, should've been more clear. I'm not actually interested in starting a debate over this because in the end, it's subjective regardless of which route you go for. In other words, whether you chose EffOrt over Flash or Flash over EffOrt, it honestly just doesn't matter here because we have only so much information to go on, and it comes down to what you weight more. For me, as it stands, Flash is at #1. That's all there is to it. On December 05 2018 07:49 BisuDagger wrote: Modesty destroyed Terrans during the sonic era for about 6 months and he did it with guardians. And peak Kwanro during the sonic era was during Kongdoo(or VANT?) Starleague where he faced Mind in the finals. His early game pressure was by far the best at the time. So Miso is a mix of Modesty and Kwanro, but hasn't experienced the post Kespa dominance Kwanro and Modesty experienced. To reiterate a third time though, this isn't referring to today's Modesty and Kwanro. If you we around during the sonic era and would like to argue their success then versus his now, then please continue. you're not wrong. Kwanro went to the finals in the actual KSL back in 2015 and lost to Mind 4-1 when we had Avalon in play. He beat Bisu 2-0 on the way haha. I think Miso is improving a lot lately much like Sharp, and him beating Action and Light is evidence of that imo. Having said that, he's still not a top tier pro, and I don't think he'll make Top 4 with the current lineup of expros, but there's always a possibility that the brackets will work in his favour, and he'll make a run to the finals like Sharp did with TvT in ASL1. Should be good to see how far he goes in future tournaments. | ||
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ggsimida
1148 Posts
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Wonk
546 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1655 Posts
On December 05 2018 03:53 BigFan wrote: Sure, but EffOrt already had his time in the sun, taking first spot last time. ASL6 finished over 1.5 months ago, and forms change all the time. Knowing his history, he'll probably sink again in the next ASL so we'll have to wait and see. Also, Flash and EffOrt played during this period of time, and Flash even has a vod on youtube which was supposedly their rematch (dunno why this seems to always happen lol). Flash won 2-1 on CB and FS maps only (took both CB games). Ditched 1-1-1 completely, and went for his 5 rax +1 if I recall. Above all though, Flash is still feared among the players. The aura is still there, just not as intense as his 2017 form, but not a single player would want to face him, EffOrt included I'm sure. To me, that's what a PR is. A list of the top 10 players who are feared atm, and have results to back it up too. Either way, I'm sure we won't agree on this, so let's agree to disagree ^^ Feared by who? you? ^^ It doesn't mean anything. Preparing an ASL final and a sponso match is 2 different things. I mean did he even prepared anyway? You' re annoying with your aura stuff man, it's all in your head, please keep making article and stay away from power ranking. User was warned for this post. wtf admin get a life. | ||
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Zonalar
Switzerland17 Posts
 thank you for writing up this article. it makes me enjoy KSL even more | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19297 Posts
On December 05 2018 11:48 Yanokabo wrote: What months of what years was the sonic era? I may not have followed the scene at that time. Modesty dude has a 35% winrate in 2 out of 3 matchups that’s all I’m saying lol. Peak kwanro was probably better than current miso, ill acknowledge that point, but I feel like those games are so dated they don’t matter now. I didn’t watch that vant star league but it looks like effort won it and modesty/kwanro didn’t even place? Not to start a big argument about it I don’t really care , just saying I like where if he put more work into his game he could probably win gold in some asl/ksl. In 2014, the first half of the year was the year of Modesty. His play was phenomenal at a time and he broke every matchup. He averaged above a 60% winrate in all his matchups and an amazing 68.57% winrate versus Terran. Stats for that time frame: https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=sospa&type=players&id=556&part=games&vs=T&league=any&map=any&from_year=2014&from_month=1&from_day=1&to_year=2014&to_month=6&to_day=31&action=Update He won the 41SL which was considered a prestigious league back then. He went 7-2 versus Terran and at the time Mong was easily a top 3 Terran. https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/leagues/4441_41_Starleague_Season_1/player_stats He placed second in the 2nd LoveTV Starleague which was also considered an important tournament. He went an amazing 10-1 with victories that include sSak and Mong. https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/leagues/4328_2nd_LoveTV_Starleague/player_stats And from liquipedia:  ModestyPost KESPA era Modesty has participated in several tournaments. He played in the 9th SonicTV Starleague where he managed to finish first in his Round of 32 group. In the Round of 16, he finished last in a group containing hero, Movie and Sea. In 41 Starleague Season 1, Modesty went on a dominant run taking down Larva, Mong, Sky and Midas in the group stages. In the elimination stage, he defeated Mong and Midas again then 4-0'd hero in the finals to win first place dropping only a single game along the way. In LoveTV Starleague Season 2, he managed to make it to the finals again beating players such as Hiya, Mong and sSak but took only second place after getting 4-1'd by Killer. In 2014 Gabangpop 1st Sonic Proleague, Modesty played under the ex-KT tag. He was an invaluable member as he helped ex-KT secure first place. He finished with a 16-7 record with wins over notable players such as free, PianO and sSak. He would finish as the top ranked player in Proleague after 8 weeks of play. As it stands, Modesty is among the best Zergs in the post-KeSPA era on TLPD when it comes to ZvT, netting wins over formidable Terran players with his current ZvT record sitting at 72%. This is how a zerg wins in 9 minutes with hive tech: https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sospa/games/190592_Modesty_vs_Mong/vod | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19297 Posts
On December 06 2018 01:45 Yanokabo wrote: 2014 was an entire black year for me where I was physically sick for like 9months and probably didn’t read the news or TL even once. Thanks for the info lol No problem! Sorry about your health. I casted every game that year (a lot with AmazingXKCD). Sadly most of the vods I made from then were lost due to twitch changes. 2013 was a year that created one of the greatest rivalries in Brood Wars history. The outright domination from Killer and Sea as they continued to meet in Sonic Tournaments was crazy. But then came 2014 and new titans began to emerge. Modesty as mentioned above, but most notably Zero and by.Hero for Zergs, Bisu as protoss, and Mind as Terran. These players breathed new life into the post-Kespa era and started to make you think, "Brood War is back". | ||
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