On December 06 2017 16:43 jinjin5000 wrote: Anyways, if you guys don't quite understand why Chinese are outraged, its the mindset of "Humiliate a countryman, spit on entire nation". This mindset is common in Asia, especially japan/korea/China, but china has sheer amount of number despite the whole firewall stuff
If small off comment that may be remotely negative on china on YouTube channel run by a white dude can spark outrage from thousands of Chinese, with tons of websites running article "white person talks shit on china", imagine what THIS did.
If you want to know more about it, I suggest you watch channel: ADVchina. Amazing YouTube channel who speaks without any qualms about China and living there. They cover this topic often. Give this video a watch.
Lol I don't know why you always want to emphasis this thing to a national level while actually it is not. Tell me in what other sport you can do such bad activity without a punishment and long suspend. So you think show that BM to your opponent is normal? Show match? Did you see players in Barcelona do that kind of thing during their friendly match? Did you see the same thing happen when any NBA team is in their global show match? Did you see the same thing happen when Chinese Pingpong player in a large lead? No you didn't and you will not because it is a normal rule that you SHOULD respect your opponent. You always mention "Chinese" is over reacting, is it true? I feel you are more excited because it is you not other people take legend as a representative of "Chinese" and you are imaging Larva is fooling "CHINESE player" and makes you excited. This is no good and not funny. And do not pretend to know China well and trying to sell your bias view. Again, stop making this thing "national".
You dont see the irony in your own words, do you?
Let me preface this that while I thought what Larva did was hilarious, it was 100% out of line if the other party was hurt by it. I felt bit uncomfortable during the celebrations and BM and thought it was bit of bad taste, and legend has 100% right to be livid by the behavior if he wasn't aware of this happening beforehand. But I am not talking about Legend, I am talking about this whole phenomenon of race wars spilling over in multiple forums of multiple languages including TeamLiquid with sole purpose of defending a country's honor over a single hurt player.
Seems like nationalism more than others factors to me. I lived in Korea and they did same thing. I see my asian friends from China/Korea/Japan do the same thing. I grew up being taught that this sort of behavior was right and along lines of "you represent your country's reputation when you go overseas" sort of mentality. Has to be that.
Its not political really, its just inherent part of our culture that tends to sway that way. This is of foreign concept to most westerners who may not understand this. As a person who spent childhood in Korea before moving to US, I could see that this kind of concept may be foreign to those of non-asian origin.
I am not trying to attack China. I am trying to explain to unfamiliar people why this issue became so big. Hell, if you look at larva's forum pages, its filled with koreans and Chinese telling each other to kill themselves and being in middle of huge flame race war. Why did this start? Its because of our culture really. Larva, who represented Korea, dissed on Chinese player, who represented China, and that pissed off many people on internet, as fellow countryman got insulted, and by proxy, the nation was shamed.
Would this sort of reaction have happened if it was a non-asian player? I highly doubt it. Did this happen when Larva taunted Sea and when he BM'd against other Koreans while he was streaming? Nope. Would it have had happened if it was Chinese player doing it to Korean? Hell yea. Japanese player doing it to Korean/Chinese? Yup. A non asian-player doing it to Chinese/Korean/Japanese? Oh yes.
This mentality of "insult a fellow countrymen, and you insult our entire nation" mentality isn't a widespread idea in the west. Even in more nationalistic western countries, its not as extreme as it is in our nations.
Because of this, this concept may not make sense to a lot of westerners, but that video does perfectly well to explain that sort of mentality.
Ask yourself this: Would non-asians have this sort of huge reaction if a player from their own nationality got humiliated?
It is funny that you are the only person who brought up this nationalism thing and used it to attack people from another country.
Is it really nationalism? It is very simple: would Chinese people be angry if LX did the same thing to PJ in a nationally broadcasted match? Of course, even LX's fans wouldn't accept it, and he would've basically ruined himself because nobody would play him anymore or respect him any more.
On December 06 2017 16:43 jinjin5000 wrote: Anyways, if you guys don't quite understand why Chinese are outraged, its the mindset of "Humiliate a countryman, spit on entire nation". This mindset is common in Asia, especially japan/korea/China, but china has sheer amount of number despite the whole firewall stuff
If small off comment that may be remotely negative on china on YouTube channel run by a white dude can spark outrage from thousands of Chinese, with tons of websites running article "white person talks shit on china", imagine what THIS did.
If you want to know more about it, I suggest you watch channel: ADVchina. Amazing YouTube channel who speaks without any qualms about China and living there. They cover this topic often. Give this video a watch.
Lol I don't know why you always want to emphasis this thing to a national level while actually it is not. Tell me in what other sport you can do such bad activity without a punishment and long suspend. So you think show that BM to your opponent is normal? Show match? Did you see players in Barcelona do that kind of thing during their friendly match? Did you see the same thing happen when any NBA team is in their global show match? Did you see the same thing happen when Chinese Pingpong player in a large lead? No you didn't and you will not because it is a normal rule that you SHOULD respect your opponent. You always mention "Chinese" is over reacting, is it true? I feel you are more excited because it is you not other people take legend as a representative of "Chinese" and you are imaging Larva is fooling "CHINESE player" and makes you excited. This is no good and not funny. And do not pretend to know China well and trying to sell your bias view. Again, stop making this thing "national".
You dont see the irony in your own words, do you?
Let me preface this that while I thought what Larva did was hilarious, it was 100% out of line if the other party was hurt by it. I felt bit uncomfortable during the celebrations and BM and thought it was bit of bad taste, and legend has 100% right to be livid by the behavior if he wasn't aware of this happening beforehand. But I am not talking about Legend, I am talking about this whole phenomenon of race wars spilling over in multiple forums of multiple languages including TeamLiquid with sole purpose of defending a country's honor over a single hurt player.
Seems like nationalism more than others factors to me. I lived in Korea and they did same thing. I see my asian friends from China/Korea/Japan do the same thing. I grew up being taught that this sort of behavior was right and along lines of "you represent your country's reputation when you go overseas" sort of mentality. Has to be that.
Its not political really, its just inherent part of our culture that tends to sway that way. This is of foreign concept to most westerners who may not understand this. As a person who spent childhood in Korea before moving to US, I could see that this kind of concept may be foreign to those of non-asian origin.
I am not trying to attack China. I am trying to explain to unfamiliar people why this issue became so big. Hell, if you look at larva's forum pages, its filled with koreans and Chinese telling each other to kill themselves and being in middle of huge flame race war. Why did this start? Its because of our culture really. Larva, who represented Korea, dissed on Chinese player, who represented China, and that pissed off many people on internet, as fellow countryman got insulted, and by proxy, the nation was shamed.
Would this sort of reaction have happened if it was a non-asian player? I highly doubt it. Did this happen when Larva taunted Sea and when he BM'd against other Koreans while he was streaming? Nope. Would it have had happened if it was Chinese player doing it to Korean? Hell yea. Japanese player doing it to Korean/Chinese? Yup. A non asian-player doing it to Chinese/Korean/Japanese? Oh yes.
This mentality of "insult a fellow countrymen, and you insult our entire nation" mentality isn't a widespread idea in the west. Even in more nationalistic western countries, its not as extreme as it is in our nations.
Because of this, this concept may not make sense to a lot of westerners, but that video does perfectly well to explain that sort of mentality.
Ask yourself this: Would non-asians have this sort of huge reaction if a player from their own nationality got humiliated?
It is funny that you are the only person who brought up this nationalism thing and used it to attack people from a country
Then maybe China shouldn’t bring nationalism into an incident that has nothing to do with it? The fact that this is getting Chinese National headline from bunch of state controlled articles and Chinese netizens getting outraged is because the person who did the bm was Korean and not a white foreign player.
On December 06 2017 16:43 jinjin5000 wrote: Anyways, if you guys don't quite understand why Chinese are outraged, its the mindset of "Humiliate a countryman, spit on entire nation". This mindset is common in Asia, especially japan/korea/China, but china has sheer amount of number despite the whole firewall stuff
If small off comment that may be remotely negative on china on YouTube channel run by a white dude can spark outrage from thousands of Chinese, with tons of websites running article "white person talks shit on china", imagine what THIS did.
If you want to know more about it, I suggest you watch channel: ADVchina. Amazing YouTube channel who speaks without any qualms about China and living there. They cover this topic often. Give this video a watch.
Lol I don't know why you always want to emphasis this thing to a national level while actually it is not. Tell me in what other sport you can do such bad activity without a punishment and long suspend. So you think show that BM to your opponent is normal? Show match? Did you see players in Barcelona do that kind of thing during their friendly match? Did you see the same thing happen when any NBA team is in their global show match? Did you see the same thing happen when Chinese Pingpong player in a large lead? No you didn't and you will not because it is a normal rule that you SHOULD respect your opponent. You always mention "Chinese" is over reacting, is it true? I feel you are more excited because it is you not other people take legend as a representative of "Chinese" and you are imaging Larva is fooling "CHINESE player" and makes you excited. This is no good and not funny. And do not pretend to know China well and trying to sell your bias view. Again, stop making this thing "national".
You dont see the irony in your own words, do you?
Let me preface this that while I thought what Larva did was hilarious, it was 100% out of line if the other party was hurt by it. I felt bit uncomfortable during the celebrations and BM and thought it was bit of bad taste, and legend has 100% right to be livid by the behavior if he wasn't aware of this happening beforehand. But I am not talking about Legend, I am talking about this whole phenomenon of race wars spilling over in multiple forums of multiple languages including TeamLiquid with sole purpose of defending a country's honor over a single hurt player.
Seems like nationalism more than others factors to me. I lived in Korea and they did same thing. I see my asian friends from China/Korea/Japan do the same thing. I grew up being taught that this sort of behavior was right and along lines of "you represent your country's reputation when you go overseas" sort of mentality. Has to be that.
Its not political really, its just inherent part of our culture that tends to sway that way. This is of foreign concept to most westerners who may not understand this. As a person who spent childhood in Korea before moving to US, I could see that this kind of concept may be foreign to those of non-asian origin.
I am not trying to attack China. I am trying to explain to unfamiliar people why this issue became so big. Hell, if you look at larva's forum pages, its filled with koreans and Chinese telling each other to kill themselves and being in middle of huge flame race war. Why did this start? Its because of our culture really. Larva, who represented Korea, dissed on Chinese player, who represented China, and that pissed off many people on internet, as fellow countryman got insulted, and by proxy, the nation was shamed.
Would this sort of reaction have happened if it was a non-asian player? I highly doubt it. Did this happen when Larva taunted Sea and when he BM'd against other Koreans while he was streaming? Nope. Would it have had happened if it was Chinese player doing it to Korean? Hell yea. Japanese player doing it to Korean/Chinese? Yup. A non asian-player doing it to Chinese/Korean/Japanese? Oh yes.
This mentality of "insult a fellow countrymen, and you insult our entire nation" mentality isn't a widespread idea in the west. Even in more nationalistic western countries, its not as extreme as it is in our nations.
Because of this, this concept may not make sense to a lot of westerners, but that video does perfectly well to explain that sort of mentality.
Ask yourself this: Would non-asians have this sort of huge reaction if a player from their own nationality got humiliated?
It is funny that you are the only person who brought up this nationalism thing and used it to attack people from a country
Then maybe China shouldn’t bring nationalism into an incident that has nothing to do with it? The fact that this is getting Chinese National headline from bunch of state controlled articles and media is because the person who did the bm was Korean and not a white foreign player.
I didn't see a single post on this forum that a Chinese brought up nationalism into this incident.
You must be kidding - of course Chinese media wouldn't make it headline if nobody cares about it. It is because it happened to LX, otherwise who cares? Would Indian cricket games make the headline of New York Times? Is it because of nationalism?
I believe some people here way overestimated the "impact" of this incident in China. No, it didn't make any headline of major media in China. Very few people really followed or cared about the few online media reports. BW is essentially a dead game in China, that is sad, but it is the truth. Maybe some Chinese like to bring up nationalism, but not this time. Why? Who would care about a game if almost nobody plays it?
On December 06 2017 16:43 jinjin5000 wrote: Anyways, if you guys don't quite understand why Chinese are outraged, its the mindset of "Humiliate a countryman, spit on entire nation". This mindset is common in Asia, especially japan/korea/China, but china has sheer amount of number despite the whole firewall stuff
If small off comment that may be remotely negative on china on YouTube channel run by a white dude can spark outrage from thousands of Chinese, with tons of websites running article "white person talks shit on china", imagine what THIS did.
If you want to know more about it, I suggest you watch channel: ADVchina. Amazing YouTube channel who speaks without any qualms about China and living there. They cover this topic often. Give this video a watch.
Lol I don't know why you always want to emphasis this thing to a national level while actually it is not. Tell me in what other sport you can do such bad activity without a punishment and long suspend. So you think show that BM to your opponent is normal? Show match? Did you see players in Barcelona do that kind of thing during their friendly match? Did you see the same thing happen when any NBA team is in their global show match? Did you see the same thing happen when Chinese Pingpong player in a large lead? No you didn't and you will not because it is a normal rule that you SHOULD respect your opponent. You always mention "Chinese" is over reacting, is it true? I feel you are more excited because it is you not other people take legend as a representative of "Chinese" and you are imaging Larva is fooling "CHINESE player" and makes you excited. This is no good and not funny. And do not pretend to know China well and trying to sell your bias view. Again, stop making this thing "national".
You dont see the irony in your own words, do you?
Let me preface this that while I thought what Larva did was hilarious, it was 100% out of line if the other party was hurt by it. I felt bit uncomfortable during the celebrations and BM and thought it was bit of bad taste, and legend has 100% right to be livid by the behavior if he wasn't aware of this happening beforehand. But I am not talking about Legend, I am talking about this whole phenomenon of race wars spilling over in multiple forums of multiple languages including TeamLiquid with sole purpose of defending a country's honor over a single hurt player.
Seems like nationalism more than others factors to me. I lived in Korea and they did same thing. I see my asian friends from China/Korea/Japan do the same thing. I grew up being taught that this sort of behavior was right and along lines of "you represent your country's reputation when you go overseas" sort of mentality. Has to be that.
Its not political really, its just inherent part of our culture that tends to sway that way. This is of foreign concept to most westerners who may not understand this. As a person who spent childhood in Korea before moving to US, I could see that this kind of concept may be foreign to those of non-asian origin.
I am not trying to attack China. I am trying to explain to unfamiliar people why this issue became so big. Hell, if you look at larva's forum pages, its filled with koreans and Chinese telling each other to kill themselves and being in middle of huge flame race war. Why did this start? Its because of our culture really. Larva, who represented Korea, dissed on Chinese player, who represented China, and that pissed off many people on internet, as fellow countryman got insulted, and by proxy, the nation was shamed.
Would this sort of reaction have happened if it was a non-asian player? I highly doubt it. Did this happen when Larva taunted Sea and when he BM'd against other Koreans while he was streaming? Nope. Would it have had happened if it was Chinese player doing it to Korean? Hell yea. Japanese player doing it to Korean/Chinese? Yup. A non asian-player doing it to Chinese/Korean/Japanese? Oh yes.
This mentality of "insult a fellow countrymen, and you insult our entire nation" mentality isn't a widespread idea in the west. Even in more nationalistic western countries, its not as extreme as it is in our nations.
Because of this, this concept may not make sense to a lot of westerners, but that video does perfectly well to explain that sort of mentality.
Ask yourself this: Would non-asians have this sort of huge reaction if a player from their own nationality got humiliated?
My friend I have to say again that your understanding does not reflect the fact very well. You are describing it to be a national news in China but it is not. Who else will care the hell of a dead game, lol.
You see some fans from China discussing this thing on the forum or reddit, yes, but the reason is not "China is insulted". LX was one of the best SC players(he retired many years ago though) and he brought many good memories to the SC fans. Do you really think there will be no fan come out and complain if Grrr/Heaton/Grubby is insulted?
People are here because we love starcraft for many years, this fvcking dead game. We want to treat it more like a "sport" than just a game, we want players and fans of this game respect each other. C'mon this is such an old game and many fans are about (or already) to teach their son to play it. No one will expect this game to be like Snooker but stop showing your foot to your opponent just like you are still in primary school.
And answer to your last question, of course yes. So many football players are suspended because of doing gestures to fans. I watched many games or sports, SC/CS/WAR3/OW/FIFA, Soccer, Basketball, Tennis... it was the first time I saw this kind of activity can gain praises instead of punishment. If someone show his foot over the net to Federer, I bet he does not need to play tennis any more this life.
And I add here, if it is LX did the same thing to Larva, will fans cheer for that? No, they will blame him. Don't say that Larva's game skill is better so he can do that. When LX was in his golden age and joined SKT1, Larva was still in high school. You can insult your opponent because you have better game skill, is it correct thing?
On December 07 2017 05:38 thinkinger wrote: I didn't see a single post on this forum that a Chinese brought up nationalism into this incident.
You must be kidding - of course Chinese media wouldn't make it headline if nobody cares about it. It is because it happened to LX, otherwise who cares? Would Indian cricket games make the headline of New York Times? Is it because of nationalism?
Of course no Chinese person would say "I'm here because of 'nationalism'". But the very fact that these threads have been flooded by I'd say over a dozen new accounts just to comment on this one tiny incident is what makes people think nationalism. That, and the aggressive, confrontational tone of all these new posters. Flooding in here and demanding apologies and respect is a sure way to get neither.
On December 06 2017 18:29 FoR_BlueS wrote: To be honest, I am very impressed by Larva's social wisdom, not only is he a good BW player, he surely knows how to entertain his audience, 。。。 from both sides...
here is what I heard about the timestamp from lx and his friends and this forum。。。。a.
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Here is the larva's black history (a korea friend told me this yesterday)^_^:
Larva use to smoke and had bad manner in SKT1 although he was not even a adult.When lose to someone (elder than him),he start to talk shit. Once he was drinking alcohol and eating pig's foot, and SKT1 coach find him.Larva got punished by coach and he should upload 40 replays of practice everyday.Larva thought coach was busy and would never watch his replays.Then larva upload replays ( only 2-3mins lenth) to the coach.Coachs watched these replays and decide wash larva away.When the new zerg-practicor come,larva was fired.Larva beg but no use.
Larva then prepare to interview as zerg-practicor of CJ.But he wear SKT1 uniform for the interview.CJ coach said to him:"are you crazy""you will do crazy things in the future and we donot want cover your ass and will not hire you"Then no company want larva.
On December 06 2017 18:01 SpringWind wrote: Football,skating and now e-sports,south korea play a shameful role anywhere XD.
To any and all Chinese posters on this thread, please do not escalate the discussion to nationalism and keep the discussion relevant to this incident. Unless you want to know who died in Death Note, if you haven't seen it yet that is...
LOL,are you threatening me? The thing what larva did is totally nationalism.
“For in the end, he was trying to tell us what afflicted the people in 'Brave New World' was not that they were laughing instead of thinking, but that they did not know what they were laughing about and why they had stopped thinking.”
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Do you really need to post same shit on every thread with double post?
On December 06 2017 18:01 SpringWind wrote: Football,skating and now e-sports,south korea play a shameful role anywhere XD.
To any and all Chinese posters on this thread, please do not escalate the discussion to nationalism and keep the discussion relevant to this incident. Unless you want to know who died in Death Note, if you haven't seen it yet that is...
LOL,are you threatening me? The thing what larva did is totally nationalism.
I will tell you who died in the Death Note anime to ruin one of the best TV shows ever for you . Just kidding, it was supposed to be a joke.
“For in the end, he was trying to tell us what afflicted the people in 'Brave New World' was not that they were laughing instead of thinking, but that they did not know what they were laughing about and why they had stopped thinking.”
― Neil Postman, Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business
Ah yes, it's proof that we live in a dystopia that anyone could laugh at someone playing StarCraft with his foot. The appropriate response to seeing that is obviously to stop and deeply think about the nature of public discourse.
all these chinese posters are just foaming at the mouth trying to talk shit about larva while claiming it's totally not about being chinese, while claiming that larva shamed korea and that he shamed lx because he was chinese; but no, none of the 20 chinese posters here are doing this because lx is chinese, it's because he's cool.
Love hate or whatever, this thing should be over soon and most people that are not interested with bw in the first place would forget and move on.
If anything, Larva's opinion shows that he thinks BW as a pro scene is becoming a scene in the past, what left is mostly streams and getting viewers, which suits his interests in the first place.
On December 07 2017 12:44 Yiome wrote: If anything, Larva's opinion shows that he thinks BW as a pro scene is becoming a scene in the past, what left is mostly streams and getting viewers, which suits his interests in the first place.
It is a bit sad really.
??? Where is this coming from
Man if FireBatHero in his samsung khan jacket pulled this on lx you people would still react the same.
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Do you really need to post same shit on every thread with double post?
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Do you really need to post same shit on every thread with double post?
as opposed to your highly informative posts?
What I posted twice or thrice? And what's not informative about my posts? I posted only Larva's stuns on Larva thread and after on merged thread on spoiler so ppl will get quick reference nothing else. Let's talk about your posts then. You posted like 4 times about he didn't apologizing on this thread. On other threads you constantly contradicting and trying to make what Larva did super bad. What you achieved? Nothing. Are you secretly chinese?
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Do you really need to post same shit on every thread with double post?
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Do you really need to post same shit on every thread with double post?
EPT
