So I just marathoned on a few Protoss games (FPVODs and from replay packs), specifically Bisu's and Jangbi's, and I want to share a few habits that I noticed. This ones are Bisu's since I think I watched 30+ of hs games (not exaggeration) and maybe only 10 of Jangbi's (mostly his finals). I may do Jangbi and Stork and even Flash later, but here's Bisu for now.
Bisu boxing is flexible, depending on where his pointer is in relation to the units. But he does upper left to lower right +-70% of the time. In comparison, Stork seems to box upper left to lower right maybe 90% of the time, I have to watch more of his vods/replays. and Jangbi is upper left to lower right also, but maybe only 88% of the time.
Nexus is 3, scouting probe is 1, first zealot is 2. All games. No exception
F2 is main production. F3 is natural, later he changes this to his rally point, usually outside the natural, and F4 is flexible, usually areas of of his opponents of areas where he expects/initiates engagements. This changes more than five times in mid to long games
EDIT: Sorry, to clarify, His armies have hotkeys, but during engagement, in the midst of actual battles, he never uses the hotkey but controls the unit individually. He only uses hotkeys for key units like hts, dts in worker lines, arbiters
He selects unit one by one in large engagements. Others manage their units in engagements by mass selecting/boxing and patroling or attacking. Bisu never does this during engagement proper, He fucking selects each units, unless he needs to fall back or move forward when he wins the engagements
And the crazy thing is, he rarely misclicks, even in wild unit compositions of zealot, dt, dragoon, archon, where unit size and chaos are enough to cause some misclicks.
He always hotkeys the first few shuttles at 5.
He rarely spams right click. His rally point form production building is almost always only 1 click, same with his right click/move command of his army.
In PvZ, he always positions the camera more to the enemy units side just before engagements without looking at his own army. This normally occurs when he wants to storm.
He tends to spam on boxing though, in varying sizes for no apparent reason. Maybe its a mouse accuracy check for him, trying to get the measure of his mouse sensitivity.
Nevertheless, he is the least dizzying of all the high-apm players. With 300-400 apm, and having perhaps the best micro of all players, it is really surprising how purposeful and clear his unit selection and control are. Effort, Fantasy, Jaedong, and Sea are the worst. Their FPVODs give me migraine.
There is nothing much to say about his macro. It's not organized, he does not follow the natural grid where buildings and pylons may align. He does not even align small buildings to pylons, such as forge or citadel. its always one hex higher or lower. and the only logic seems to be that gateways need to have exit for fatass dragoons and the path to the rally point need to be at least "rallyable". After those, the layout is fair game
Have you noticed habits from your favorite progamers? Post them here. (For purposes of uniformity and clarity, maybe include the following key information: Building hotkeys, unit hotkey, F keys, army control, spam habits, and other unique quirks and )
grouping armies are somewhat matter, but hotkeys aren't that relatively important compare to grouping armies. Use whatever the comfortable hotkeys you are familiar with. Same for Screen hotkeys.
For me(Scan), I use F2 MAIN/MACRO BUILDINGS, F3 2ND BASE, F4 RALLY PT
Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Zero is the closest to Bisu from all Zergs. Hero/Effort/Larva/JD usually play around 400 apm, while Zero would usually stay like Bisu, in the 300-350 apm region. Effort is my favorite, but Zero's cleaner play is less stressful to watch
Is Bisu not clearly hotkeying his armies in this game? That's just the first one I opened. I don't watch much Bisu.
I can't imagine not hotkeying Protoss armies for large-scale movements around the map. Perhaps in very scrappy, action-packed games where engagements are small and frequent he doesn't.
1. Doesn't use his upper lip to eat hot soup with a spoon. 2. Does not blow on spoon with hot soup to cool it before scraping it off with his less temperature sensitive teeth.
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: grouping armies are somewhat matter, but hotkeys aren't that relatively important compare to grouping armies. Use whatever the comfortable hotkeys you are familiar with. Same for Screen hotkeys.
For me(Scan), I use F2 MAIN/MACRO BUILDINGS, F3 2ND BASE, F4 RALLY PT
Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yessss so important. Many times build placement can fuck you up, like it fucked me up on Gladiator... not enough build space
point 12 is not true watch his gateway building on CB in start pos there is a clear path/vision with the gateway placement (he places them more or less in a circle around the pylons edging the ramps of the base he gets to put alot of gateways in this way and the units can stream out easy/fast no dragoon will get stuck in his setup
Bisu clearly hot keys his stuff and he does miss click often.
It's unrealistic not to hot key at such a high lvl.
About 12:39 he miss clicks his probe by a large margin and 17:12.
I noticed he miss clicked his zealots somewhere at the beginning of the video. Saw it quite a bit actually.
Think maybe you just aren't catching it quick enough. Damn koreans are fast.
While we're on the subject of accuracy, I'd like to mention, both shinee and scan both have some legit accuracy. Haven't seen much of shinee's streams but the few that i have watched, did impress me. To bad he doesn't stream as often as one would like.
On September 20 2017 01:43 Rococo wrote: Is Bisu not clearly hotkeying his armies in this game? That's just the first one I opened. I don't watch much Bisu.
I can't imagine not hotkeying Protoss armies for large-scale movements around the map. Perhaps in very scrappy, action-packed games where engagements are small and frequent he doesn't.
I clarified the point, thanks for pointing this out. He hotkeys but never actually uses them in engagements,
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yes, this is standard. Which is why I pointed out Bisu's layout since it is strange for someone as meticulous as him. Fantasy and Jangbi has neat layout as long as they can help it. There was one terran or protoss player who was well known for his ocd building placement, I don't remember who though... someone remembers?
I noticed he miss clicked his zealots somewhere at the beginning of the video. Saw it quite a bit actually.
Think maybe you just aren't catching it quick enough. Damn koreans are fast.
While we're on the subject of accuracy, I'd like to mention, both shinee and scan both have some legit accuracy. Haven't seen much of shinee's streams but the few that i have watched, did impress me. To bad he doesn't stream as often as one would like.
Maybe sample size. As I've said, I watched 30+ games, with perhaps 5 or more engagements in each. and during engagements, he rarely misses when he micros his attack, pulling and covering for units.
And by the way, I'm referring to misclicks in micro during engagements, when micro actually matters, and not when clicking a zealot walking across the map.
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yes, this is standard. Which is why I pointed out Bisu's layout since it is strange for someone as meticulous as him. Fantasy and Jangbi has neat layout as long as they can help it. There was one terran or protoss player who was well known for his ocd building placement, I don't remember who though... someone remembers?
On September 20 2017 10:02 Djabanete wrote: I've wondered about Flash's depots. Does placing them semi-randomly foul up incoming doom drops/recalls, or does it really just not matter?
I think this is the reason. I mean of all the buildings in bw, depots are the easiest to neatly align, yet terrans almost never do it.
Pretty sure he places them carefully in the first few minutes but when the action picks up he just starts throwing them down as quickly as possible, to get back to the important stuff ASAP. That's why they start to get into a somewhat random formation, as long as it's in the general area he wants it in, it's good enough.
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yes, this is standard. Which is why I pointed out Bisu's layout since it is strange for someone as meticulous as him. Fantasy and Jangbi has neat layout as long as they can help it. There was one terran or protoss player who was well known for his ocd building placement, I don't remember who though... someone remembers?
Horang2
Yes! Look at this beauty:
Meanwhile, Bisu. He cant even be bothered to build the beacon, forge, and observatory around the pylon properly. And look at those marco stargates!
On September 20 2017 10:39 ii.blitzkrieg wrote: Pretty sure he places them carefully in the first few minutes but when the action picks up he just starts throwing them down as quickly as possible, to get back to the important stuff ASAP. That's why they start to get into a somewhat random formation, as long as it's in the general area he wants it in, it's good enough.
Even in early games before actual supermicro map jumping occurs, terrans just normally put down their depots loosely close to each other without any attempt to be snug and aligned. This has to be intentional.
On September 20 2017 10:39 ii.blitzkrieg wrote: Pretty sure he places them carefully in the first few minutes but when the action picks up he just starts throwing them down as quickly as possible, to get back to the important stuff ASAP. That's why they start to get into a somewhat random formation, as long as it's in the general area he wants it in, it's good enough.
Even in early games before actual supermicro map jumping occurs, terrans just normally put down their depots loosely close to each other without any attempt to be snug and aligned. This has to be intentional.
What do you mean by snug and aligned, also what time period are we talking about in a game? If it's done intentionally it might depend on position/match up, you don't want to have a bunch of depots stacked on top of each other restricting unit movement to deal with muta harass or drops for example. Do you have any examples of what you're talking about, because that's not my experience, or maybe it's just semantics.
On September 20 2017 10:02 Djabanete wrote: I've wondered about Flash's depots. Does placing them semi-randomly foul up incoming doom drops/recalls, or does it really just not matter?
I think this is the reason. I mean of all the buildings in bw, depots are the easiest to neatly align, yet terrans almost never do it.
no speed is what matters for him he will throw them down even in the middle of a push
On September 20 2017 10:39 ii.blitzkrieg wrote: Pretty sure he places them carefully in the first few minutes but when the action picks up he just starts throwing them down as quickly as possible, to get back to the important stuff ASAP. That's why they start to get into a somewhat random formation, as long as it's in the general area he wants it in, it's good enough.
Even in early games before actual supermicro map jumping occurs, terrans just normally put down their depots loosely close to each other without any attempt to be snug and aligned. This has to be intentional.
I remember terrans used to do that vs protoss because of reavers.
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yes, this is standard. Which is why I pointed out Bisu's layout since it is strange for someone as meticulous as him. Fantasy and Jangbi has neat layout as long as they can help it. There was one terran or protoss player who was well known for his ocd building placement, I don't remember who though... someone remembers?
Horang2
Yes! Look at this beauty:
Meanwhile, Bisu. He cant even be bothered to build the beacon, forge, and observatory around the pylon properly. And look at those marco stargates!
well horang2 can't make goons from 1 of his gates due to his simcity
Is Flash building depots two at a time? You know what happens when you try to place them next to each other sometimes the first building scv will get in the way of the second, canceling it. So unless you want to waste attention babysitting them, it's probably best to throw down the depots spaced out slightly (however ugly) and get back to the real important stuff because routine depot building is low priority on the list, unless you get supply blocked noob
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yes, this is standard. Which is why I pointed out Bisu's layout since it is strange for someone as meticulous as him. Fantasy and Jangbi has neat layout as long as they can help it. There was one terran or protoss player who was well known for his ocd building placement, I don't remember who though... someone remembers?
Horang2
Yes! Look at this beauty:
Meanwhile, Bisu. He cant even be bothered to build the beacon, forge, and observatory around the pylon properly. And look at those marco stargates!
well horang2 can't make goons from 1 of his gates due to his simcity
Exactly why is not a good setup bisu never makes a setup like this he will make 5gate setup so that the inner gateway exit is not blocked ..
On September 20 2017 00:40 LaStScan wrote: Building placements are important for Terran and Protoss. It might ruin your game if you build too randomly. For Zerg, somewhat does(for simcity/sunken line), but not as much as other two races.
Yes, this is standard. Which is why I pointed out Bisu's layout since it is strange for someone as meticulous as him. Fantasy and Jangbi has neat layout as long as they can help it. There was one terran or protoss player who was well known for his ocd building placement, I don't remember who though... someone remembers?
Horang2
Yes! Look at this beauty:
Meanwhile, Bisu. He cant even be bothered to build the beacon, forge, and observatory around the pylon properly. And look at those marco stargates!
well horang2 can't make goons from 1 of his gates due to his simcity
Exactly why is not a good setup bisu never makes a setup like this he will make 5gate setup so that the inner gateway exit is not blocked ..
Testament to his ocd planning. He plans full ahead which gates will not summon dragoons lol
On September 20 2017 18:30 onlystar wrote: Can't tell if you're joking, You don't always have that flexability sometimes you only need to produce dragoons not zealots
I'm serious. Anyone who has played BGHXXXXX 999999 as toss knows this is a bad layout even with unlimited money and units, although it's cute looking. All Im saying is, Horang2, ocd and all, must have planned this ahead that 1/6 of hist gates will not produce dragoons. In the name of looking pretty, damn effectiveness.
Don't be dumb and misunderstand the use of examples and elucidations. What I am saying is, maybe for Horang2 having a neat and pretty layout is very important that he can justify having 1/6 of his gateways not producing dragoons. That's his quirk, and he knows full well the consequences of that.
well he could be used to his setup and skip making goons from that gate, its possible.
when i get a corner base (2nd main base expo) i just spam gates close to each other (many of which have blocked exits for goons) and only make zeals and hts from those gates, my goal is just to have a ton of gates on 1 screen so i can spam units asap.
Does flash play with his pants unzipped? He clearly zips them up after he won his group. You can see it just after the gg. Buttoning up, zipping up, drinking water.
On September 25 2017 23:00 Navane wrote: ASL4 Ro16 Group A + Show Spoiler +
Does flash play with his pants unzipped? He clearly zips them up after he won his group. You can see it just after the gg. Buttoning up, zipping up, drinking water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRjC2ruGi1Y&t=1h30m14s
> F2 is main production. F3 is natural, later he changes this to his rally point, usually outside the natural, and F4 is flexible, usually areas of of his opponents of areas where he expects/initiates engagements. This changes more than five times in mid to long games How do you know exactly which funtion key he uses?
Also I don't think he uses a rally point hotkey, at least I've never seen it watching his fpvods. Maybe you can link one with a timestamp.
I think he hotkeys 5-9 and uses those hotkeys to rally to his natural or uses his gateway/screen hotkey -> clicks gateway -> screen hotkey to natural nexus and then quickly shifts up to rally.
Also, I've not seem him actually use this 'flexible' screne hotkey. Can you link some fpvods where he does that? Like above^, it's probably f2 - main nexus, f3 - gates, f4 - natural nexus.
> EDIT: Sorry, to clarify, His armies have hotkeys, but during engagement, in the midst of actual battles, he never uses the hotkey but controls the unit individually. He only uses hotkeys for key units like hts, dts in worker lines, arbiters > He selects unit one by one in large engagements. Others manage their units in engagements by mass selecting/boxing and patroling or attacking. Bisu never does this during engagement proper, He fucking selects each units, unless he needs to fall back or move forward when he wins the engagements This definitely isn't true. For large army engagements, he will box many units to split them properly. Of course spell casters, he will select them individually.
> He always hotkeys the first few shuttles at 5. Looking at his replays, this is flexible, I've seen it at 4 also.
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CRjfmxg.png)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/oDL2qnR.png)
