EPT
Btw. who is Doggi_kr?
WCG Challenge 2000
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1StEiN
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Btw. who is Doggi_kr? | ||
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esk0
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On May 31 2003 01:51 esk0 wrote: omg you dont know who Doggi is? I mean is he plaing with an other aka at moment? | ||
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We're now with only 8 people remaining in the tournament; 3 from Korea ( Gorush, ILoveStar, Bassy ), 1 from sweden ( {i'm}Daaman ), 1 canadian ( X'Ds~Smashe ), 1 german ( [DEF]Rookie ), 1 french ( [GG14]Chobo ) and 1 from the netherlands ( [9]NTT ). From now on, everything can happen. Actually, to that point of the tournament, what will decide of the winners is not really WHO is the best, but who get the best race match up and the best starting position. For example, the next game opposing our Canada member X'Ds~Smashe (who will pick protoss) and [9]NTT (who will pick Terran) will mostly be based on where the players start on the map THE LOST TEMPLE. If one of the the players get the starting position at 6 o'clock, he will have a very bad economy in the game ( because the 6 spot harvest slower ) and also, if they start very close to each other (one guy start at 12 o'clock and the other one start at 3 o'clock), the Protoss have a bigger advantage because they can make attacking units a little bit faster so the terran must be very defensive at the beginning. Aside of that, from now on, only the cream of the players are still in there, and the luck factor is probably what will make players either win or lose. Koreans will probably get top3 or something like that. -X'Ds~FirE Today results: October 12th 2000 -[DEF]Rookie vs X'Ds~Smashe Pretty weird game indeed. Smashe went random and got Protoss at 6 o'clock (THAT STARTING POINT IS BAD!!) and Rookie got the 3 o'clock (best spot). Smashe decided to do a quick corsair rush and was also building zealots out of 2 gateways. He then saw that Rookie was going for hydras and he succeeded in killing one overlord. Rookie got fast zerglings (~25 zerglings) and Smashe had around 12 zealots. Then, Rookie decided to do some lurkers and Smashe made dragoons and reavers. Smashe attacked with 1 reavers, 12 zealots and 8 dragoons, and he killed every attacking unit Rookie had but 2 hydras and 1 sunken. After that, Rookie brilliant move was to put lurkers on Smashe expansion (where all the probes were). That slowed down Smashe much, and the final attack Rookie made killed Smashe while he was trying to get a 2nd expansion. Smashe conceded the game... -X'Ds~FirE -[9]NTT vs X'Ds~Smashe As I talked about earlier, the match against X'Ds~Smashe and [9]NTT just happened and X'Ds~Smashe was at starting position at 6 o'clock. He had the badest economy and it's one of the main reason why he lost. [9]NTT rushed X'Ds~Smashe with vultures and he lost many of his working forces (probes) to mines, vultures and marine//tanks drop. He still managed to repell almost everything but the last attack he didn't have enough units to block [9]NTT tanks and vultures. Actually, X'Ds~Smashe decided to go for mass units instead of teching to dark templars or high templars or reavers. He lost hounds of zealots to [9]NTT thousands mines and many dragoons to his sieged tanks. -X'Ds~FirE -[DEF]Rookie vs ILoveStar Korean players ILoveStar decided to pick Zerg (his only race) and Rookie went for Random. Actually, Rookie isn't very good with Terran but he thought that by going Random he could get an advantage in the build order. He was pretty upset when he got Terran because it is his worst race by far. Rookie tried to do a very fast wraith rush but it failed because ILoveStar already had many hydralisks in his main base and at his expansion. Slowly, ILoveStar made around 8 lurkers, many hydras and some scourges//mutalisks (and researched overlord speed). When he attacked, Rookie had only 1 tank, 1 turret, a bunker and 4 marines. He managed to kill everything but 3 lurkers and like 5-6 hydras, which were enough to kill Rookie. He then conceded the game... -X'Ds~FirE Special comment about maps used in Starcraft I want to discuss about the map being used in the WCGC tournament for Starcraft Brood War. Actually, I first want to tell everyone that amongst the top players, 98% of all the 1on1 games played between players outside of that tournament are played on a map called "The Lost Temple". This map in mainly used because it is, in theory, the most well balanced map of all the ones made by Blizzard and because it is used in the Ladder (some kind of Rating system). The two other maps are really imbalanced because they give a huge advantage to any good zerg player. "The Hunters" is a 8players map and should be used for 2on2 and 3on3 only. Also, on "The Hunters", every starting point matters, because some of the expansions don't even have gas on them and some starting position harvest REALLY faster than others. The other map available for the tournament was "Rivalry", and this one is as much imbalanced as the other one, but not for the same reason. If the player pick Zerg, it's really easy for him to beat Terran for 2 reasons: he can have an easy control of the map using burrowed lurkers at ramp + he can expand everywhere with ease. Against Protoss, almost the same thing can happen: The Zerg can quickly get an expansion and since the expansion has no gas, Zerg gets an advantage because Protoss really needs gas and Zerg a little bit less in that match up. The major thing that need to be issued here about "The Lost Temple" map still have some slight imbalances that are corrected in another version of "The Lost Temple". The main problems with that map are that if you get the starting position at 6 o'clock, you will harvest around 82-83% of the other starting points. Also, if you are a Terran player and get the starting position at 12 o'clock, it is impossible for you to build a comsat on your command center at the gas expansion and at the cash expansion. There is a corrected version of "The Lost Temple" and it would be better because everyone would have an equal chance of winning. My two suggestions would be to use only one map, "The Lost Temple", since it's the one everyone plays, and also to use the corrected version of it, so the very best player could have a chance of winning. Actually, some of the best players lost in that tournament because of those slight imbalances, and it would make every single player very happy if they could compete in the best conditions possible. -X'Ds~FirE Saturday 14th October 2000 4th place GAME (loser takes 4th place) -[GG69]NTT (Netherlands) vs Bassy (Korea) Bassy's point of view (Guillaume Bouchard aka X'Ds~FirE): Map "The Lost Temple", Starting position: 3 o'clock Build order: -9 drones -Extractor, then one more drone, then he canceled extractor so he got 10/9. -Build spawning pool -Morph Overlord -Start extractor -Morph one more drone ( population: 9/9) -Morph 6 zerglings ( 12/17) (NTT scouting scv finds Bassy and his zerglings) -Evolving the Lair At that time, Bassy tried to attack NTT (who was at 12 o'clock) but NTT made a really good defense with 3 scv's blocking the ramp and 2 marines behind + the scouting scv disturbing the zerglings. So Bassy lost half of his zerglings and killed one scv, then he backed to his main, where he morphed two more zerglings and, strangely enough, forgot to build his hydraden for lurkers, which he built as the Lair was finishing (around 15 seconds too late). Then, he morphed 2 lurkers, then getting a 3rd and a 4th one, and finally burrowed them at NTT ramp. NTT had a bunker and he finally succeeded in killing 3 of them. He finally lost them... Later on, Bassy made 4 more lurkers and around 12 zerglings, while researching overlord drop and speed rightn after. He filled 4 overlords with his attacking forces, and went to drop from the left side of NTT main base. Meanwhile, Bassy's saw NTT moving toward his natural expansion, but he decided to drop NTT main base anyway. He dropped his 4 lurkers and 12 zerglings, but the only damage they did was killing one tank, and Bassy's forces were history. He had lost his expansion at that time and was fighting to keep his main base, but since he had only 9 drones, 1 hydralisk and 1 lurker to protect, he surrendered and conceded the game. Bassy should have powered a little more, because NTT micromanagement is really good, and NTT knew Bassy was going to play some cheesy game (**fast lurkers**) and he was ready for it. He should have expanded a little bit earlier and get more forces, or at least upgrade lurkers... Still, that was a good game... NTT's point of view (Sven Myrdahl Opalic aka [GG8]sVEN ): "The Lost Temple", Starting position : 12 o'clock NTT had allready lost to Bassy twice earlier in the tournament, where Bassy opted for an early zergling rush and hurt NTT early, so NTT changed his build from 8 SCV's -> Depot, 11 SCV's Barrack, to something like this: - 9 SCV's ->Barrack - Depot - Bassy's overlord finds NTT, which tells NTT that Bassy started at 3 - Nonstop SCV's - Scout at around 13 - 2nd barrack at 150 - Marine - Depot NTT's scout finds Bassy's base with zerglings done 1 second ago. He doesn't panic though, because his build is perfect against this kind of rush. He waits for the zerglings, and with perfect timing moves 3 SCV's to his ramp to deny the zerglings access while positioning his two marines behind. Zerglings will allways try to kill marines first, so Bassy had to manually target an SCV to get through, but NTT only moved the targeted SCV and Bassy lost half of his zerglings in his process. NTT had also followed the zerglings with the SCV that he used to scout Bassy's base and managed to disturb the zergling movement with it. Bassy only succeeded in killing this one SCV, and so he retreated back to his base, thinking he had some time to recover. NTT though, had allready seen Bassy upgrading his main hatchery to a lair, and knew that Lurkers were in the making, so he just took 4 SCV's and the marines that he had built (about 4 marines) and moved towards Bassy's base, while setting rally points from his 2 barrackses straight into Bassy's main. He proceeded to kill some zerglings and a drone, but had to retreat his SCV's because all his marines had died. Back in his main he had built an engineering bay and opted for +1 attack really fast, while getting academy a little later. As soon as he had a medic and a firebat along with about 8 marines, he started towards Bassy's base again to intercept lurkers, but remembering Bassy's tricky zergling moves, he also built a bunker at the top of his ramp, and well done, because as soon as his units was near Bassy's natural expansion, NTT's sees zerglings moving up his ramp. He quickly puts the 4 marines that has been built since he moved into the bunker, and kills the zerglings easily. NTT has also built a factory and starts his tech towards vessels when Bassy starts moving with 4 lurkers. The units outside Bassy only succeed in killing one lurker before dying because NTT was more focused on getting a turret up beside his bunker at his ramp. Something really weird happens now, because i saw NTT's academy starting to upgrade as soon as it was done, and of course I think that he would upgrade stim first, but when NTT clicks his marines in his main, the stim icon is still gray. I realize what has happened when bassy tries to burrow his lurkers below NTT's ramp with an overlord for sight... As soon as the lurkers try to burrow close enough to attack the bunker (Lurkers have range 6), the bunker starts firing at them, which means that NTT upgraded range first. So now all the lurkers eventually die to the single bunker because of the +1 attack and range upgrade. Bassy made the mistake of being predictable, which the dutch Terran player took full advantage of. Vessels are nearly there, a dropship is done, a tank is done, stim is done, armor +1 upgrade on the way, Bassy has very bad economy because of his build focusing totally on killing the Terran player early. In other words, the game is pretty much over. NTT drops Bassy's main with 6 marines and 2 medics and kills some drones and a lurker. He loads them back into the dropship when he has 4 marines and 1 medic left, and proceeds towards Bassy's natural expansion, where hatchery is just finished. NTT targets the hatchery and kills it. Now he feels really secure and starts moving again with 2 tanks, 1 vessel and about 12 marines and some medics and a firebat. When he reaches Bassy's base, he sees that Bassy is dropping his main base with some lurkers and zerglings. Expecting this from earlier games, he has put 4 tanks in his main, and the drop only succeeds in killing a tank and maybe a few SCV's. Moving up the ramp, Bassy only has 1 lurker and a single hydralisk to defend with, so the players exchange their "GG's" and Bassy surrenders the game. SEMI-FINALS WINNER BRACKET (WINNER ADVANCE TO FINALS, LOSER GO TO LOSER BRACKET FINALS) -I_Love.Star (Korea) vs [STAR]GoRuSh (Korea) I_Love.Star's point of view (Guillaume Bouchard aka X'Ds~FirE): Map "The Lost Temple", Starting position: 9 o'clock Build order: -8 drones -Overlord -9th drone -As the overlord is morphed, 3 more drones (12/17) -I_Love.Star put 3 drones on gas and start Lair as soon as possible -He added another hatchery when Lair was half completed -He puts a sunken next to his extractor and build around 18 zerglings with fast legs -As soon as Lair is finished, he builds a spire At that point, both guy had almost the same builds, but GoRuSh did a brilliant move; he targeted I_Love.Star spire and succeeded in killing it. That forced I_Love.Star to build another spire, and also to get a evolution chamber and 2 spore colony. By that time, GoRuSh got his 6 mutalisks and he killed 2 overlords. I_Love.Star was down to 20/10 (population). He morphed 2 overlords and finally succeeded in getting 12 scourges *but he lost his extractor). He killed GoRuSh attacking forces, but it was a little bit too late. He was down to ~8 drones, and he had less mutalisks, weaker economy and everything. He tried to attack with around 6 mutalisks and 4 scourges, but GoRuSh had around 12 mutalisks and some scourges, so his attack failed and he conceded the game. The main mistake of I_Love.Star in that game was the fact he built his spire too far of his drones and zerglings, so it was really hard for him to protect it. This allowed GoRuSh to kill it and he lost that way. So, one thing to remember: always put your spire the closest to your drones // zerglings you can, so you can protect it easily. [STAR]Gorush point of view ( [GG8]sVEN ): "The Lost Temple", Starting position: 3 o'clock (Both players picked Zerg as their race) Build order: - 9 drones -> Overlord - Extractor -> Drone, cancel extractor (supply 10/9) - 12 drones extractor and pool Gorush did a traditional zerg vs zerg build, opting for fast muta's from 2 hatcheries while building zerglings with speed upgrade for early game fighting, and seeing I_Love.Star's main base with an overlord, i would say he did about the same build, but a little slower and with more drones. As soon as Gorush hassd about 14-16 zerglings, he decides to move towards his opponents main base, trying his luck with zerglings. And a good move it was, as he catches I_Love.Star on the move and manages to kill about 5-6 zerglings while losing only 2 or 3 himself. I_Love.Star decides to pull back and build a sunken. A small zergling battle commences with both sides losing only hitpoints and no units, but Gorush has his spire allready in building and just waits for I_Love.Star to build his. As soon as I_Love.Star puts down his spire a little below his hatcheries, Gorush is there with all his zerglings and manages to kill it before I_Love.Star can cancel or respond with his own zerglings, and as this is happening, Gorush's spire is finishing up, so the game is leaning heavily towards Gorush. He immideatly puts out 4 mutalisks and manages to kill first the 2 enemy overlords in his main, then a few more overlords, and I_Love.Star's extractor which is just outside spore range. Gorush puts down his expansion hatchery and defends it with his now ~12 mutalisks. I_Love.Star does an all or nothing move, attacking the expansion with 6 mutalisks and 4 scourges, but loses it all and concedes the game. FINALS LOSER BRACKET (WINNER FIGHT FOR 1st place, LOSER GET 3rd PLACE) -I_Love.Star (Korea) vs [GG69]NTT (Netherlands) I_Love.Star's point of view (Guillaume Bouchard aka X'Ds~FirE): Map "The Lost Temple", Starting position: 3 o'clock Build order: -8 drones -1 overlord -3 more drones -He sent 1 drone to make an expansion and 1 drone to scout -He started his spawning pool (9/17) -3 more drones -Starting gas (11/17) -4 mores drones (15/17) -4 zerglings (17/18) * 2nd hatch completed, so +1 population; he transfered ~4 drones. -4 more drones while starting Lair (21/26) -2 more drones (23/26) -Build hydraden (22/26) -2 more drones (24/26) As soon as Lair was completed, I_Love.Star researched lurker aspect and got 2 creep colony to his expansion. He then got 2-3 mores drones and also got a spire while getting again 2-3 mores drones. He then built another hatchery in his main base (pop: 30/34). He then started to pump hydralisks, and got his first 2 lurkers as NTT was getting his main attacking force to his expansion so he could expand. After getting his main scanned, I_Love.Star brilliant move was to keep up getting hydralisks and lurkers (while upgrading them 1-1 then to 2-2) and making only scourges to kill the dropships. That confused NTT, whom was awaiting many many mutalisks (and none came). Slowly, I_Love.Star pumped non stop hydralisks and around 5 lurkers, gathering them in the middle of the map, while taking 12 o'clock natural expansion and then 12 o'clock main base. NTT tried two times to drop; first time he dropped I_Love.Star main base with 7 marines and 1 medics, but it was repelled easily and I_Love.Star lost only 1 lurker (and NTT lost his dropship). Same thing happened when NTT tried to kill 12 o'clock natural expansion; that time, the dropship died, and I_Love.Star lost only 1 hydralisk to the attacking force, mainly because he had 2-2 upgrades. Then, I_Love.Star knew he needed to pull a special trick to attack NTT's well defended expansion. As his overlord drop was done, he built a queen nest and he decided to tech to his Hive, so he could get some guardians. At that time, I_Love.Star also decided to get 6 o'clock natural and main bases. He had around 36 hydralisks and 5 lurkers in the middle of the map, and they were upgraded 2-2. Slowly, he built around 10 mutalisks and got his upgraded spire and his fast overlord speed. Then, as soon as the upgraded spire was up, he morphed 9 guardians and put all his hydralisks, lurkers and guardians on groups (using CTRL 1-2-3-4-5). By that time, I_Love.Star had 6 bases (explained above) and NTT was trying to get his 3rd one by siegeing around 12 tanks at his cash expansion. As the tanks were siegeing, the 9 guardians finished morphing, and a huge fight happened in the middle of the map. I_Love.Star hardly lost any guardians, and probably only half of his hydralisks. He targeted NTT 3rd command center, killed it, and he moved toward NTT natural expansion and also killed the Command center there. NTT conceded the game. That game, I_Love.Star played perfectly. He succeeded in pulling every attack NTT did, and he also succeeded in confusing NTT... He fainted to make mutalisks but didn't even built one, he defended every expansion he had perfectly, he did the exact right units to kill NTT. There is no way NTT could have won this game, especially with the weird build order he made (vultures!?!?!?!?!)... [GG69]NTT's point of view (Sven Myrdahl Opalic aka [GG8]sVEN ): "The Lost Temple", Starting position: 9 o'clock NTT picks terran and ends up at 9 o'clock Build order: - 9 SCV's -> Depot - 10th SCV -> Scout 12, then finds I_Love.Star at 3 (shift click) - 11 SCV's -> Barrack - 13 SCV's -> Barrack - Depot on 15 - Marine on 16 This is a traditional Terran vs. Zerg build that will work against most strategies, but i think NTT went wrong when he built his factory before his academy. He was expecting lurkers, so he wanted fast vessels and a few vultures with mines, but when he started moving with 10 marines, 2 medics and 2 vultures with mines, he scans I_Love.Star's main and see's a spire 99 % done, so he pulls back his marines, but sends his vultures towards his opponents natural to lay mines, but I_Love.Star just sends a zergling through the minefield. NTT also puts down a mine besides the minerals at 12, so he can see when I_Love.Star expands there, which he surely will do. NTT builds a dropship before his first vessel and tries a drop with 6 marines and 2 medics, but I_Love.Star knows that NTT thinks he went mutalisks, so he's switched to hydralisks and lurkers with upgrades and stops the drop easily, but loses 1 lurker. NTT expands and defends with a bunker on his cliff and marines and a few vultures below while dropping 12 o'clock expansion, but the cho go su zerg player sees the drop and stops it easily. I_Love.Star then attacks and kills both expansions and all units. NTT has already built another command center and also floats his main command center to his second natural, so he has two bases running again. He now has 15 tanks and about 10 marines, expecting more hydras and lurkers, but when I_Love.Star shows up with 9 guardians, NTT concedes the game. | ||
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
 thx for posting that | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28654 Posts
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Liquid`RaSZi
Netherlands2766 Posts
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
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TanGo
Sweden1019 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
Who's Bassy? | ||
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Dealer
Sweden1368 Posts
Nazgul: I am sure they played Rivalry all over the prelims were Doggi made top3, i even think i have all the replays on my old comp =) | ||
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
http://www.cgol.net/wcgc/images/sc_h/scdz.jpg | ||
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ReTrooper
Germany526 Posts
At least I found it there a while ago. | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4511 Posts
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I)Senate-
Netherlands47 Posts
wtf is that name ^^ | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
I stand corrected that's weird using different maps than at the actual WCG | ||
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
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Honk2000
Germany698 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13005 Posts
:7 | ||
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ReTrooper
Germany526 Posts
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Zerius[TPR]
Canada1633 Posts
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