334, as some of you may know, was Savior's 2v2 partner with whom Savior won the 2v2 portion of the BW Asia Open in Shanghai.
334 wrote a post about his experience playing with Savior, and I've translated it below. I believe the majority of their communication was done in English, and all the quoted portions were them communicating in English (or at least, that's the sense I got out of it from the post). The post is written from 334's first person perspective.
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I officially confirmed that I would be playing with Savior on the night of the 21st, and we began practicing together on Fish the day after. Savior liked to use the full names of buildings, like “Getway” [sic] [T/N: in China, most buildings are referred to by their hotkeys. Gateway would be “bg,” Citadel and Archive would be “vc” and “vt,” etc.] I told him he could just use hotkeys, and it’d be simpler to type, and I would understand it more easily. There’s not much to be said in 2v2 anyways, “g” and “b” mostly, so there weren't any communication issues.
Savior found a lot of Korean teams for us to practice against. We played against pretty much every team ranked 2 to 6 on Fish, and we won more than we lost, so Savior and I were very confident in our trip to Shanghai. Savior is an outgoing/talkative guy. We would discuss strategies over QQ, and he would be very focused in helping me prepare, and when I would make a mistake he wouldn’t blame me or anything. In game four of the finals on Python, Savior knew it was GG for us when we couldn’t take out jatgirl’s (beast’s) Hatchery, so he typed to me “hard to win, just enjoy the game”.
After the groups were set, Savior and I kept talking about the likely matchups. In the other bracket, Scan and Fengzi are basically guaranteed first place, so getting first place in our bracket would make it more likely for us to advance. We’re in the same group as jatgirl and pic, so neither of us wanted to be second in the group and end up facing Scan and Fengzi, so we played our hearts out in the group stages. When the score was 2-2, we took a break, and I asked Savior “go smoke?” He smiles and shook his head and said “no, go on”. It really is the kind of calm and poise that comes with being a bonjwa… We won a close 3-2, and Savior was very happy when we won and said to me “oh, so we go final”.
Before the tournament ended, we didn’t drink at any of the meals. Once, over a meal, I told Savior “if you drink, I will kill you”. Savior said “no no, I am not”. I asked him how to say “334” in Korean, he said “Sam Sam Sah.”
Savior is very quiet, and is very calm and steady when he walks. I’ve never seen him run, he’s basically always in the same position. He also wears cologne -_-,
Once, when watching the games live, Savior and I were smoking in the bathroom. One of the show girls [star girls] was adjusting her hair in the woman’s bathroom across the hall, the one who was wearing glasses. Savior tapped me and said “that girl looks pretty,” I asked him “do you like?” He smiled and shook his head, said “no no no, i think you like.” Then I told him if he likes, I will go ask her for her QQ, and Savior said “really?” I said yes, he said “ok,” and then I got her QQ and he actually asked me “how did you do it?” I told him I’m not telling. Then, in the elevator, there was a girl in front of us, and I said to Savior “if you say this girl is pretty…” and he said “nonono,” and worryingly asked me if I was going to ask for her QQ too.
Savior would always go back to the hotel very early, except for the night before the finals. He said Chinese television is good to watch. During practice, I would often say “wo cao” [T/N: "Wo cao" is similar to randomly saying “oh fuck” or “shit."] Savior asked me what “wo cao” means, and I said “when you surprise, you can say wo cao”. Then Savior picked it up and kept saying it…
Before the day of the semifinals against Money and Feng, Savior and I weren’t too worried, because ZP combination would be hard for them to play against us. But Feng and Money both played very well. I know Savior was very nervous in the ZT vs. ZT game, because there was twice when his mouse would move violently, whereas during practice, no matter how badly we were losing, he would always be very relaxed in his control. During the last game, Savior and Money played ZvZ. If the opponents used all their units to attack Savior, he would’ve died for sure, and he said so himself after the game as well, so my Zealots had to leave the base to draw fire, and I traded myself for Feng, and Savior won a 1v1 under very difficult conditions. After it ended he told me it was very dangerous, and told me his hands were shaking while he played.
The night before the finals, Savior and I prepared a lot. He asked his Korean 2v2 specialist friend bul if there are any good strategies on Fighting Spirit (leto is really strong, he’s #1 on Hunter, but only on Hunters), and his friend (bul) told him “Fighting Spirit zp vs zt so easy.” Except for Hunters, where the spawn position and racial combinations are too complicated, we prepared a strategy for every map, which were the same ones we used in the finals. The night before, we practiced with Scan and Fengzi, and they could never win the first game, and only when they knew our strategy in the second game would they be able to adjust to it. We used the same strategy on Iron Curtain four times and they lost three times, so Savior and I were very confident in winning the finals. But even so, in consideration of the atmosphere and pressure of a live game, we were still a little bit worried. We practiced until 2am that night before we went back to the hotel to sleep. Savior told me to relax, and said we will win, and I replied “sure".
On the day of the finals, Savior used his computer to show me a picture of Iron Curtain and explained to me all the different race and spawn point combination subtleties. Honestly we could’ve 3-1’ed, but during the game on Python, Savior forgot to take out jatgirl’s Hatchery. After the game he told me “my miss,” and I told him “is nothing, jia you” [T/N: “Jia you” is like “fighting.”] On Iron Curtain Savior played really well, and taking out a Vulture with two Zerglings is really world-class game sense and control. To be honest, I was unusually calm during the finals, not nervous at all. I just wanted to help Savior and myself get a championship, to allow such an excellent player get the honor that befits him. In the final game Savior had a mis-micro with his first group of Marines, and after the game, he told me he was too excited..so happy.
After the games Savior said “now we can go drink tonight, party.”
Savior was very happy that night, he drank a lot, and when we kept pouring more for him he kept saying “wo cao, I will die.”
No matter what he was doing, Savior was always very deliberate and refined, and he’s very talkative and open...there are a lot of details that are hard to describe individually and comprehensively, I’ll just leave it at an overview.
thanks for translation! A good read imo. Interesting to hear how things went down. Sounds like Saviour is very relaxed in person and in general, nice to speak with. I couldn't help but laugh at this part: I told Savior “if you drink, I will kill you”. lol.
On December 03 2013 07:38 Cambium wrote: He also mentioned something during the live cast that savior had analyzed every single combination in terms of spawn during preparation.
I think that's somewhere in the article as we'll, but I'm on my phone
Yep
On the day of the finals, Savior used his computer to show me a picture of Iron Curtain and explained to me all the different race and spawn point combination subtleties.
Interesting read, but it did not answer my secret question. Did the sponsor ask/force Savior to play with 334 or did Savior chose him because none of the Korean wanted to be Savior's partner?
Really appreciate that you took time to share your experience with Bonjwa ! Thanks a lot and congratulations for your win! I hope someone will put the vods online...
Very interesting read, gives some insight into how teams (most likely) would have prepared for team play in Proleague back in the day, considering Savior was a former teamplay ace for GO.
On December 03 2013 12:35 tarpman wrote: If I read that correctly, Savior played Zerg in some of the games and Terran in others?
set 1 : zp vs zt sAviOr p win set 2 : zp vs zt sAviOr p lose set 3 : zp vs zt sAviOr z win set 4 : zp vs zt sAviOr p lose set 5 : zp vs zt sAviOr z win set 6 : zp vs zt sAviOr z lose set 7 : zt vs zz sAviOr t win
I find it really strange that the post completely avoids the obvious issue. He should really have written something on the topic of teaming up with the biggest outlaw of the whole esports.
On December 03 2013 21:12 opisska wrote: I find it really strange that the post completely avoids the obvious issue. He should really have written something on the topic of teaming up with the biggest outlaw of the whole esports.
Why? This is from a player's perspective who already agreed to play with Savior in tournament, so he obviously cares less about that than a lot of the Koreans and TL users here
Thanks for the translation! After reading the interview with him on the match-fixing scandal he seemed genuinely contrite and had clearly suffered for his sin. Hopefully he continues on the road to redemption, he still has much to give BW.
On December 03 2013 21:54 Jragon wrote: Thanks for the translation! After reading the interview with him on the match-fixing scandal he seemed genuinely contrite and had clearly suffered for his sin. Hopefully he continues on the road to redemption, he still has much to give BW.
On December 03 2013 10:43 endy wrote: Interesting read, but it did not answer my secret question. Did the sponsor ask/force Savior to play with 334 or did Savior chose him because none of the Korean wanted to be Savior's partner?
considering he had the chance of winning 25k $ i would say he could not give a damn.and from how friendly he seemed in this interview he really did not give a damn lol 25k is a lot of money
On December 03 2013 21:54 Jragon wrote: Thanks for the translation! After reading the interview with him on the match-fixing scandal he seemed genuinely contrite and had clearly suffered for his sin. Hopefully he continues on the road to redemption, he still has much to give BW.
I don't understand this. If Savior truly repented he would leave progaming. People whining about how he was punished enough confuse me, it's not like he was put into prison for the rest of his life or banned from society, he could have done any number of things but instead he chose to troll the BW community by continuing to try to participate and stream.
On December 03 2013 21:54 Jragon wrote: Thanks for the translation! After reading the interview with him on the match-fixing scandal he seemed genuinely contrite and had clearly suffered for his sin. Hopefully he continues on the road to redemption, he still has much to give BW.
I don't understand this. If Savior truly repented he would leave progaming. People whining about how he was punished enough confuse me, it's not like he was put into prison for the rest of his life or banned from society, he could have done any number of things but instead he chose to troll the BW community by continuing to try to participate and stream.
It sucked to find out about match fixing, but at this point, with how small the BW community has become, I WANT him to keep playing and streaming. He was one of the great players of BW, and he is an asset to a dwindling scene that I still prefer over SC2. It was inevitable with hindsight that Korea would make the transition to SC2, but i genuinely enjoy watching his games, especially since his play style is actually attainable versus other pros like Bisu (think APM).
I don't think he should still be banned from a competitive scene that has dwindled so much. I would love to see him fare against the members of the sonic league.
On December 03 2013 21:12 opisska wrote: I find it really strange that the post completely avoids the obvious issue. He should really have written something on the topic of teaming up with the biggest outlaw of the whole esports.
Savior <3 Finally a second chance at tournaments I wish we can give him a second chance to redeem himself, may be donate half his earnings to help the starcraft scene or do volunteer work. Always thought a 5 year suspension would have been more appropriate than a ban for life. Glad the Chinese are allowing him to compete.
On December 04 2013 03:10 Kaal wrote: Wow all these Savior apologists in this thread, get out and go away.
if you joined in 2010 you are forgiven in case you don't remember that he had an amazing brood war career and was one of the biggest gamechangers in starcraft history
On December 04 2013 03:10 Kaal wrote: Wow all these Savior apologists in this thread, get out and go away.
if you joined in 2010 you are forgiven in case you don't remember that he had an amazing brood war career and was one of the biggest gamechangers in starcraft history
sAviOr was the first SC progammer that I know.
some guy on some MMO forum site have him as his DP. Asked him about it. Then looked up on him and discovered professional SC. Then watched the National Geographic documentary about Xellos. Heard about Tasteless in it. Did more research, came across Gom's Intel Classic series, heard Tasteless mentioning about TL and there I am. All because of that guy's pic. So sAviOr indeed have a soft spot in my heart.
W/o sAviOr, well that guy might have a different guy as pic but I would say that sAviOr's existence was instrumental for my discovery of this community.
On December 04 2013 03:10 Kaal wrote: Wow all these Savior apologists in this thread, get out and go away.
if you joined in 2010 you are forgiven in case you don't remember that he had an amazing brood war career and was one of the biggest gamechangers in starcraft history
If anything I think it's easier for people who joined more recently to forgive him. I started following a couple years after the fact and it seems really cool to me that he's back, but at the same time it seems like the scandal really shook the whole scene to its core.
Majaeyoon was eliminated in the online game with his korean partner metis, then the sponser asked him to play with 334 because he has so many fans in China and he accepted it.
It was a nice insight and all, but hopefully Savior will be shunned until the end and never be given a second chance to help with killing this great game.
Mixed feelings about this, I'm Sure savior could've win a lot more major tournaments, yet he decided to go full greedy and stuff. I don't know if he should play, or coach or nothing, he seems to be a beast anyways
Thanks for the translation. MJY will always be one of favorite BW players. When I went to Blizzcon 2008, watching him and Nada play was definitely the highlight of the event for me.
On December 03 2013 07:56 Rekrul wrote: MaJaeYoon Fighting!!
I thought you hated him :L
Interestingly enough I think Rekrul was the first one to mention anything about Savior matchfixing or anything and no one believed him, and he mentioned it quite a while before it came to light too.
But I am pretty happy Savior managed to win, even if it was 2v2.
I think we all come from a culture that's more forgiving of moral faults than Confucian East Asia. Especially Americans can turn a blind eye to some corruption or cheating in the face of great accomplishments, which is why so many people envy and emulate the CEOs who are doing things like stopping entire rivers and thereby wiping out villages in order to sell bottled water (Nestle, 2013. India maybe? I forget). We tend to forget/ignore the ugly sides when the person is winning.
I never understood so much hatred directed at Savior, yeah he did bad thing, and what even worse even didn't feel penance about it (from what i have heard). But this is just stupid. BW is my favorite game ever, and i don't care about savior being jerk or not, neither i am interested in his private life. But his contribution in game is undisputed, he's n1 candidate to watch for me. TL banned his stream, and i still kinda resent that decision. You may hate him, but seriously, just leave him alone. Why everyone spits at him publicly and it is considered normal, but no one officially blame Blizzard for making everything to kill their own child? As for me Savior didn't damage game in any means, he just damaged KESPA and they are very rancorous about it. What Blizzard did was much worse.
On December 06 2013 08:53 orth0dox wrote: I never understood so much hatred directed at Savior, yeah he did bad thing, and what even worse even didn't feel penance about it (from what i have heard). But this is just stupid. BW is my favorite game ever, and i don't care about savior being jerk or not, neither i am interested in his private life. But his contribution in game is undisputed, he's n1 candidate to watch for me. TL banned his stream, and i still kinda resent that decision. You may hate him, but seriously, just leave him alone. Why everyone spits at him publicly and it is considered normal, but no one officially blame Blizzard for making everything to kill their own child? As for me Savior didn't damage game in any means, he just damaged KESPA and they are very rancorous about it. What Blizzard did was much worse.
I wonder how bitter Savior must feel considering that's been going on since the matchfixing scandal and will probably continue for a long while to come.
On December 08 2013 21:43 Weirdkid wrote: There's actually like an interview with Ma Jae Yoon on Fomos I think, where they talk a bit about the tournament in China, and about the scandal.
Yes, it was translated by lemmata here in this thread for anyone who hasn't seen it yet
great article and translation, thank you for that!
i can see some arguing (again) so i'll put my two cents:
it's not like he was not punished for what he did...
he is my favorite player of all time and match fixing scandal can't change it.. yes, i was sad he was a part of that scandal but it was bigger hit for me was when i realized he will not get the second chance... some people are saying he is the reason BW died but that statement is really too funny to take it seriously...
i love that guy, i'm not ok with banning his stream here because acting so aggressively moralistic is just hypocritical but we are people and people love to behave in that way... they will spit on savior but at same time they will use some brands known for fixing prices on the market and destroying competition in that way or cheating on the customers... that guy "served" his time and i hope he will play the game no matter what "saints" are saying...
imagine the society where you are punished for your acts for the rest of your life... that society would suck..
On December 11 2013 08:16 purgerinho wrote: great article and translation, thank you for that!
i can see some arguing (again) so i'll put my two cents:
it's not like he was not punished for what he did...
he is my favorite player of all time and match fixing scandal can't change it.. yes, i was sad he was a part of that scandal but it was bigger hit for me was when i realized he will not get the second chance... some people are saying he is the reason BW died but that statement is really too funny to take it seriously...
i love that guy, i'm not ok with banning his stream here because acting so aggressively moralistic is just hypocritical but we are people and people love to behave in that way... they will spit on savior but at same time they will use some brands known for fixing prices on the market and destroying competition in that way or cheating on the customers... that guy "served" his time and i hope he will play the game no matter what "saints" are saying...
imagine the society where you are punished for your acts for the rest of your life... that society would suck..
I am all for reintegration into society and forgiveness, and in some ways I believe things were more complicated for Savior than people would have you think, but I think there is a difference between forgiving someone and approving of this kind of action. I think a lot more people could forgive Savior in their hearts if he really stopped playing games or at least Brood War and showed true repentance.
Please consider the following scarecrows : -A girlfriend or boyfriend cheats on you. You can forgive that person, but you shouldn't get back together with that person. -A pedophile teacher molests a child . You might forgive this person, but you shouldn't let them teach children or work with children again.
Savior's situation is not precisely the same, but my feelings about it are. I was a person hoping for Savior to rise again all through his slump before we found out about the matchfixing, and a person who believed that he was probably partially a victim himself and fell into a very bad crowd when he was trying to make friends and be liked. But I still don't think he should play StarCraft anymore.
Perhaps I take a more romantic view of repentance than you might like, but I think the romantic view lends itself to greater honesty, and it's less pitchforky without pretending wrongdoings don't matter.
On December 11 2013 08:16 purgerinho wrote: imagine the society where you are punished for your acts for the rest of your life... that society would suck..
Many many people do not make such mistakes as those. Branching out into a slightly more broad but related topic, there's way too much excuse-making for stupid behaviour by people where they expect complete forgiveness because "Oh, you know, it was in the past, people do stupid things when they're young etc. etc.". It's just petty excuse-making because they don't want to accept responsibility. How about a world in which people try to avoid doing really bad or stupid things in the first place, instead of expecting to get away with everything? Of course people make mistakes, but people can easily only make far lesser mistakes. :\
If we all have certain rights but also certain moral rules we are meant to abide by, you don't have a world of "equal rights" when people abuse their rights, breach rules and then are eventually completely forgiven for it. Perhaps people should accept that if they do some things, they shouldn't expect to ever be completely forgiven. Complete forgiveness is reserved for lesser "wrongdoings", perhaps? Just another perspective, maybe.
I guess I'm taking the middle route here. Savior is rightfully banned from KesPA games (and generally, Korean tournaments) because of the damage he wrought. In a sense, while the proportionate punishment might not be the permanent ban now imposed, we have to understand that this is also "setting an example" for anyone thinking about doing the same thing. In other words, if the crime of matchfixing is ideally punishable by the letter of the law with, say, a 2 year ban from competition, the spirit of the law dictates that the first major matchfixer be punished more severely simply because he represents the criminal propensity, and thus should also represent the maximum consequences of the act.
However, this should not limit Savior's participation in non-KesPA events. What Savior did was principally a crime against organized, competitive Starcraft. He effectively spat on the official rules of KesPA and its government-given authority, as well as the categorization of Broodwar as "e-Sports." In this instance though, the first effect is permanent (i.e., KesPA cannot maintain authority if its rules are flouted, and thus violators must be harshly punished), but the second effect (i.e., violation against fair play and sportsmanship) is not permanent, and can be cured by proper participation in other events. I don't know; match fixing is pretty much one of the worst things to do in any sport, alongside steroid use and overt cheating. Yet I cannot for the life of me think of it as some kind of "capital" crime requiring permanent punishment on ALL fronts, especially if it involves the freedom to do what you love.
On December 11 2013 08:16 purgerinho wrote: great article and translation, thank you for that!
i can see some arguing (again) so i'll put my two cents:
it's not like he was not punished for what he did...
he is my favorite player of all time and match fixing scandal can't change it.. yes, i was sad he was a part of that scandal but it was bigger hit for me was when i realized he will not get the second chance... some people are saying he is the reason BW died but that statement is really too funny to take it seriously...
i love that guy, i'm not ok with banning his stream here because acting so aggressively moralistic is just hypocritical but we are people and people love to behave in that way... they will spit on savior but at same time they will use some brands known for fixing prices on the market and destroying competition in that way or cheating on the customers... that guy "served" his time and i hope he will play the game no matter what "saints" are saying...
imagine the society where you are punished for your acts for the rest of your life... that society would suck..
I am all for reintegration into society and forgiveness, and in some ways I believe things were more complicated for Savior than people would have you think, but I think there is a difference between forgiving someone and approving of this kind of action. I think a lot more people could forgive Savior in their hearts if he really stopped playing games or at least Brood War and showed true repentance.
Please consider the following scarecrows : -A girlfriend or boyfriend cheats on you. You can forgive that person, but you shouldn't get back together with that person. -A pedophile teacher molests a child . You might forgive this person, but you shouldn't let them teach children or work with children again.
Savior's situation is not precisely the same, but my feelings about it are. I was a person hoping for Savior to rise again all through his slump before we found out about the matchfixing, and a person who believed that he was probably partially a victim himself and fell into a very bad crowd when he was trying to make friends and be liked. But I still don't think he should play StarCraft anymore.
Perhaps I take a more romantic view of repentance than you might like, but I think the romantic view lends itself to greater honesty, and it's less pitchforky without pretending wrongdoings don't matter.
he is not a progamer anymore... it is like saying girlfriend/boyfriend can't be with someone else anymore.. it is like savior and bw.. pedophiles aren't best example coz i would never forget them and i would close them behind the bars for the rest of their life :D but i can understand your feelings..
i was hoping he will rise again.. his fall started with bisu rise and obviously he lost fate in his gameplay and turned to match fixing.. in that period he wasn't same player anymore (except blizzcon)... we don't know what happened in his head, he was weak in that moment, maybe greedy, who knows, maybe he is awful person in general (i doubt it).. he fked up very hard and paid for it... kespa ban is his biggest punishment + money he had to give back + he lost so many fans and instead of love he got hate from them (understandable)..
he started again from zero (not really because of his legacy but you know what i want to say) and it should be "live and let live" now... banning his stream on TLnet is hypocritical but i can understand it..
so everyone has to understand all of us that still admire him coz of his gameplay back in the glory days.. my opinion is that he can give something back to BW if he would get another chance...
Thanks for the translation. I rarely read trough whole translated articles, but this was very well written and easy to follow, not to mention interesting!
EPT
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