EPTMoreover, maybe we could extend this P2P project to take Warcraft 3 replays into account, too ? I don't think it would be so hard to do.
EDIT : IntoTheWow > yeah, I don't know other systems' plug-ins, I just proposed Azureus to show what I meant
Replay P2P software - Page 2
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
Moreover, maybe we could extend this P2P project to take Warcraft 3 replays into account, too ? I don't think it would be so hard to do. EDIT : IntoTheWow > yeah, I don't know other systems' plug-ins, I just proposed Azureus to show what I meant | ||
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tec27
United States3727 Posts
On July 12 2006 00:36 Taiche wrote: Yeah, but rewriting a complete and efficient P2P system demands tons of work and strong motivation. Too bad eMule doesn't have any plug-in system (that I know of) but since the source code is open, maybe we could build something around it ? Moreover, maybe we could extend this P2P project to take Warcraft 3 replays into account, too ? I don't think it would be so hard to do. EDIT : IntoTheWow > yeah, I don't know other systems' plug-ins, I just proposed Azureus to show what I meant Well, when I was thinking about it, I figured that once the starcraft functionality was built in, along with the p2p functions, it wouldn't be too hard to extend it to many other games. Heck, you could even incorporate a plugin system for adding more games. | ||
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3024 Posts
torrents just wont work unless people make torrets of replay packs, you obviously cant make a torrent for each replay websites also suck cause people have thousands of replays, uploading one by one would be a joke, and generally they dont check for duplicates anyway we need something with a centralized server that will keep a database of which people have which replays or something of that nature, like ares but Ares is decentralized (bad cause we dont have thousands of people playing bw who will use it to share reps) and you rely on the file name might wanna check zeropaid.com or slyck.com, they keep track of which P2P are being developed/released | ||
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
On July 12 2006 06:27 Sabbath wrote: problem is that with regular P2P we rely on the file name for all the replay information, that is just not enough for even the basic needs like player names and map, not to mention other stuff like game date, apm, and so on (file name has to be small or you cant load the rep on bw) Not exactly. eMule relies on hash code (two files with different name or creation date but with same content will share the same hash), as other systems I think. That's why I proposed a mod of eMule : that way, we could change the interface (so that the user can search for replays by players, APM, game version, etc...) while keeping the same core. The file name itself is not much of a problem, adding a check on its size is nothing. On July 12 2006 06:27 Sabbath wrote: websites also suck cause people have thousands of replays, uploading one by one would be a joke, and generally they dont check for duplicates anyway Again, it depends. A website "a la ImageShack" including a search engine and an upload form based on hashes could be very useful. But I agree that uploading thousands of replays would be long. On July 12 2006 06:27 Sabbath wrote: we need something with a centralized server that will keep a database of which people have which replays or something of that nature, like ares but Ares is decentralized (bad cause we dont have thousands of people playing bw who will use it to share reps) and you rely on the file name might wanna check zeropaid.com or slyck.com, they keep track of which P2P are being developed/released Actually, before looking at HOW we can do anything, we should decide on WHAT we want to do :D Then, the "how" question can be solved | ||
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
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LastWish
2015 Posts
On July 12 2006 00:26 Taiche wrote: OK guys, here are my thoughts on the subject : * As one of the two developers of ReXplorer, I have acquired a non-negligible knowledge about the replay file format and how decode it. Plus, we have a good C++ API to get most of the parsing job done : info parsing, map extraction, minimap generation, etc... I'd be glad to help * Why do you want to start something from scratch ? I mean, there are tons of P2P programs all over the Internet so why not reusing one ? I was thinking of Azureus which proposes a plugin system. Maybe torrent is not the way we want to do it, but the plugin idea should definitely not be overlooked. Building a whole P2P system is a lot of work, especially in the DESIGN part. You need to spend a lot of time before starting the code in itself because you don't want to realize every 2 months that the software needs to be rewritten completely, making it it very difficult to be compatible with the previous version... Anyway, feel free to discuss it ! Maybe the technical details could be discussed on BWProgrammers, which might be more suitable than TL.net for this I would be interested in the replay and map format, if anyone has documented one... Could be something like : Offs(relative/absolute,hex/dec) | Size | Meaning Compresion method... Whatever that might be useful, I thing i had some sources of bwchart but I didn't have enough time(ok and was lazy too) to crack through it... | ||
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
But i like Taiche's idea of moding eMule. I have account on bwprogrammers so we can talk more here. Others could list some features which would be neat to have. | ||
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
Inside this MPQ, you will find a .chk file : this file contains all information about the map. The file format is almost completely documented at Campaign Creations If you need any help on this, do not hesitate to post on BWProgrammers. About replays, it's a bit more complicated. I'll try to make a documentation some day. Anyway, you can use JCA's bwlib library to get a simple C++ API to open a replay. There are also RepASM's sources which provide more advanced methods to get info about replays but I really need to build a separate library for all this :D Sundance : yeah, this topic here could be nice to have people's list of needs and then we could talk on BWP about the implementation and all that. | ||
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DarK]N[exuS
China1441 Posts
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superjoppe
Sweden3694 Posts
On July 12 2006 07:31 sundance wrote: Ok i've seriously thought about it whole day and we can't use BitTorrent protocol for obvious reasons What are the obvious reasons? | ||
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IriS[YY]
China330 Posts
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
b/c of the matter of BT.You need to something like distribued database of replays.Replays are physicaly on HDDs of other users but to you it seems they are on your HDD.BT is more of sharing separate files.Gnuttela or eDonkey are more suitable protocols imho. But i still think about developing it from scratch.Just because i don't like hacking existing code(i.e. eMule mod).It usually turns very ugly and i love working on such a stuff. | ||
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
On July 12 2006 09:48 sundance wrote: b/c of the matter of BT.You need to something like distribued database of replays.Replays are physicaly on HDDs of other users but to you it seems they are on your HDD.BT is more of sharing separate files.Gnuttela or eDonkey are more suitable protocols imho. Plus we need a search engine, which is kinda hard to implement using BT. On July 12 2006 09:48 sundance wrote: But i still think about developing it from scratch.Just because i don't like hacking existing code(i.e. eMule mod).It usually turns very ugly and i love working on such a stuff. Therefore, as I said before, you'll need a very strong motivation, very good skills in development and good knowledge of network fundamentals. And you'll definitely need to spend lots of time on the specification process and not rush into code. | ||
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NoNameLoser
United States1508 Posts
If that so, given average map size 90kb, replays data itself is 20-40 kb? so say for replay packs that use the same maps (like wcg rep pack), can you make so theres only one copy of each needed map and replays themselves only have replay data, killing the size of the pack by like 60-70%? just a thought. | ||
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
1) yup 2) yup, ReXplorer does it 3) yes, more or less. An action does not take much place. Plus, .rep files are compressed (using pklib) 4) nope and here's why : Actually, Blizzard saves the map in the replay so that any player who wants to see a replay can do so, even if he does not have the map in his maps folder. Simple as that. Now, about removing a part of the replay file, I don't think it's possible since it would result in a corrupted replay. | ||
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tec27
United States3727 Posts
On July 12 2006 10:19 NoNameLoser wrote: Does every replay come with the map included in it? Does it mean you can extract the map out of the replay? If that so, given average map size 90kb, replays data itself is 20-40 kb? so say for replay packs that use the same maps (like wcg rep pack), can you make so theres only one copy of each needed map and replays themselves only have replay data, killing the size of the pack by like 60-70%? just a thought. Although I sorta see where you're going with these questions, it just doesn't apply to the idea. Bine was not saying replay packs were too big. What he was saying was that all replay sites are inefficient. In order to get replays of specific players you have to search around a lot, and if you want to do some more advanced searching, like say, for specific build orders, you can just forget it. What was suggested was a much more advanced system, tailor-made for replays, in order to make this advanced searching easy and intuitive. | ||
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bine
United States2352 Posts
On July 12 2006 11:29 tec27 wrote: What he was saying was that all replay sites are inefficient. In order to get replays of specific players you have to search around a lot, and if you want to do some more advanced searching, like say, for specific build orders, you can just forget it. What was suggested was a much more advanced system, tailor-made for replays, in order to make this advanced searching easy and intuitive. exactly <3 btw, another function that might be helpful would be some kind of implementation of tagging... dunno if it would be worth it, but it might be nice to be able to add a few tags to each replay. For example, i could tag certain replays with "muta harass" or "defilers" if there's a game that demonstrates something particularly well. | ||
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