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Flash's vP 2010 - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
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Battleship789
Profile Joined March 2010
United States415 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-11 20:48:45
October 11 2012 19:32 GMT
#21
Looks cool. I started watching professional BW in late 2009 and thought FlaSh's play was amazing, so I decided to start rooting for him and the rest of KT Rolster.

I have the free vs FlaSh series VOD saved on my computer. I'm uploading it currently (my internet connection is on the slow side...) and then I'll PM you a DL link. It should be around 1 hr till it is finally uploaded. Finished and PM sent.

Edit: The double armory build is from 2008.
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
October 11 2012 19:36 GMT
#22
Damn Flash made BW hard to watch

But now when I look back on them, I think the games were brilliant.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
October 11 2012 19:38 GMT
#23
On October 12 2012 02:24 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 02:12 baubo wrote:
I really hated Flash at his peak simply because he would basically never make mistakes. RTS is suppose to be a game where players play at a high speed, making instantaneous decisions on the fly with limited information where you take risks. Flash wasn't that. He played more or less flawlessly. He knew exactly how much he could get away with through his macro-cheese. He knew exactly how to punish his opponent when they try the same thing. He knew exactly when to push out and where to engage, how to target fire his tanks, how to split his army just enough to attack multiple expansions. And it was boring.

Part of what makes watching BW fun is that when the player you root for is ahead, you are still sitting there watching, hoping he doesn't mess up, hoping he tries to expand on his lead into victory. Also, when the player you root for is behind, you are still enthralled because you hope he can catch up by exploiting his opponent's mistakes and make a comeback. But with Flash at his peak, that entertainment is gone. Sometimes when I just see Flash get away with 14CC, I pretty much think he's won. Because either that extra econ will compound exponentially and he rolls out with his 200/200 army and wins, or his opponent tries to catch up and get killed by some timing attack. It takes a lot of the fun out of watching games.


I think that's how most flash antifans felt. I was tired of him winning everything. You really had no doubt he would win. And at that time the TL scene was growing and every new member only saw this same boring player when over and over again. But now years later, I actually go back and I'm just awed by his games. They are fantastic and beautiful works of art. I can't help but be impressed by him. The way he measured everything in his booth. His mom watching him as he won. I wish I could just give flash a hug. Protoss was indeed in a rut during these years. ZvP was ruled by 3 hatch hydra and it looked grim. With Flash wiping face, it looked like my favorite race would never come back. LeeSang was so fearsome.

Seeing Flash lose a game during his dominance meant that his opponent played a perfect game against him. It wasn't because he made mistakes. It rose the protoss talent to a new level just to have the skill to stay in game with him. So much pain and fun to think about at the same time. <3


Sniff. This quote makes me wanna cry a little inside
Что?
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
October 11 2012 20:18 GMT
#24
It never grated on me to see Flash win, because I'd been cheering for him ever since I saw the Klazart VODs of Flash cheesing Bisu out of the OSL Ro8 in 2007. I just thought of him as the "balls of steel/aboslute cojones" kid (Klazart's words) and starting watching his games more and more. It was really satisfying seeing him transform into a fantastic strategical player and win the GOM Invitation and the OSL. And then it sucked seeing him lose over and over in 2009 to random Zergs and wondering if he'd ever make it big again. So when 2010 rolled around I was totally ready to see the best BW player ever finally get his head in the right zone and dominate everything. I never felt the slighest twinge of remorse watching him win, except sometimes against Jaedong or Stork. Seeing that level of perfect play, and seeing how it raised the bar and made everyone else get better (seriously, look at Fantasy's play and Jaedong's 2011 ZvT) was one of the most satisfying parts of the BW pro scene for me. And KT's proleague wins were such amazing rollercoasters... 2010 was a fun time to be a Flash/KT fan.

Of course, I can understand how a lot of fans didn't like seeing their favorites getting crushed over and over again by Flash. Seeing Jaedong losing to him badly could be pretty depressing actually. But overall he just raised the bar for everyone and delivered some really really sick BW.

God I loved his "rivalry" with Best. Nukes, bunker rushes, and that dropship game on Fortress that pulled KT out of last place in PL... so good.
May the BeSt man win.
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
October 11 2012 20:30 GMT
#25
On October 12 2012 02:07 nbaker wrote:
I'll always remember when people were saying Flash was weak against Best and he 3-0'ed him in I think the NATE MSL. Such an inspired, intelligent player.


I remember when people still thought Flash was weak against BeSt prior to the 2011 proleague finals.
chaosTheory_14cc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1270 Posts
October 11 2012 21:09 GMT
#26
On October 12 2012 05:30 red4ce wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 02:07 nbaker wrote:
I'll always remember when people were saying Flash was weak against Best and he 3-0'ed him in I think the NATE MSL. Such an inspired, intelligent player.


I remember when people still thought Flash was weak against BeSt prior to the 2011 proleague finals.

I guess that's why he was sent out for the ace match despite losing to Flash earlier in the series. I remember the outrage in the stream chat because Bisu didn't get sent out. At no point in that final game did I think Flash could lose.

Anyways as a Flash/KT fan, watching Flash dominate 2010 with his TvP was simply amazing. I never did get tired of him destroying every protoss he played. And Korean Air was great, but I can still remember how upset I felt when he lost to Effort.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10552 Posts
October 11 2012 21:20 GMT
#27
flash basically made it so that if protoss didnt FE or 12 nex, terran would have a huge advantage. and if they did fe or 12 nex, flash would punish it. so broken
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18733 Posts
October 11 2012 21:27 GMT
#28
On October 12 2012 06:20 FlaShFTW wrote:
flash basically made it so that if protoss didnt FE or 12 nex, terran would have a huge advantage. and if they did fe or 12 nex, flash would punish it. so broken


I actually rated scouted (which happened 99% of the time) 12 nex the worst opening vs Terran, especially Flash.

Since terran can either try and bunker rush the protoss or just get a free third. I am pretty sure Flash had more wins vs 12 nex than any other opening.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
October 11 2012 21:44 GMT
#29
T_T I miss that era so bad. He really raised the bar for all progamers, and reached the absolute pinnacle of BW. The game has never been played at such a high level as Flash did during the God era.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Thorin
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
601 Posts
October 11 2012 22:40 GMT
#30
NukeTheStars has the whole series on his account (set1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4-2EfP5e9I) so for now you'll just have to watch it with English commentary.
ironcell
Profile Joined January 2010
Chile1127 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-11 22:44:02
October 11 2012 22:41 GMT
#31
That kind of dominance is what made so epic Jangbi's victory in the Jin Air OSL. Flash looked untouchable before, and well everybody remembered how unbelievable was his comeback after been down 0:1.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10552 Posts
October 12 2012 00:01 GMT
#32
until the protoss decided to learn how to counter him... and then he slumped
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 01:21:35
October 12 2012 01:20 GMT
#33
Flash always played rationally. No one else ever did this so well.
Until Jangbi on pathfinder.

That was the difference between Flash vs Best on Circuit Breaker and Flash vs Jangbi on Gladiator:
Best pretended to have good macro and got a "fast" 4-base when in reality, flash already had 4 bases when best had only 3. It was pathetic to see this so-called "macro monster" lose at his own game.
Also, Flash vs Best on Fortress was absolutely terrifying. Best had absolutely no plan to counter Flash.
☺
moochu
Profile Joined August 2009
Australia374 Posts
October 12 2012 02:14 GMT
#34
I'd be interested in what made JvZ
BlazeFury01
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1460 Posts
October 12 2012 02:21 GMT
#35
On October 12 2012 00:09 vOdToasT wrote:
IloveOov Made TvZ look pretty imbalanced for a while, with his insane win streak.

And then, JulyZerg!


Savior.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=5&part=games&league=standard&vs=Z#tblt-851-1-default-0-Savior
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9175 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 02:40:51
October 12 2012 02:34 GMT
#36
I think towards the end of BW he pretty much broke TvZ. Unless you beat him early with a 2 hatch or ling all in it was pretty much over with the bio -> mech transition and mass expanding, whilst often holding contains at both naturals.

I feel, more than anything else, the maps ended Flash's TvP reign. Good luck maintaing a huge win % on the likes of Gladiator/Pathfinder/Chain Reaction/Jade/Aztec.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
October 12 2012 05:28 GMT
#37
Maps and SC2 ended Flash.
Flash would probably still be #1 everything (or maybe #2 behind Jangbi in TvP/PvT) if it weren't for everything working against him.

Oh. And his injuries.
☺
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 07:14:41
October 12 2012 07:06 GMT
#38
On October 12 2012 11:21 BlazeFury01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2012 00:09 vOdToasT wrote:
IloveOov Made TvZ look pretty imbalanced for a while, with his insane win streak.

And then, JulyZerg!


Savior.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=5&part=games&league=standard&vs=Z#tblt-851-1-default-0-Savior

No, the point is July ended his 25-0 TvZ streak mid-2004 and was the first Zerg to have a winning record against him. Savior also stomped oov, but that came later.

more relevant:
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-12 12:37:25
October 12 2012 12:35 GMT
#39
On October 12 2012 01:00 Dante08 wrote:
I would love to see the end product of your article, cant wait! Also I remember Shady Sands or someone is going to do an article on Flash similar to Savior's God of the Battlefield. That would be fucking awesome.


Ver himself was supposedly working a Flash final edit. Man... I wish it was here now.

Thanks for the post, I can tell you kinda got screwed by the disappearance of the vods, it's really a shame. It brought back some good memories. Flash in Nov 2009, loses in PL to Best " My vP is kinda bad". Flash 2010 vP ~85%.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
October 12 2012 13:31 GMT
#40
Most amazing matchup for me in terms of pure skill and consistent "outplaying" of opponents is still Flash TvT. I wish Ver would analyze that in his FE.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
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