EPT
we really hope it will play as good as we thinkStarparty+Empyrean BlizzCon Final submission - Page 2
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
we really hope it will play as good as we think | ||
Empyrean
17082 Posts
 I can't wait for replays to be uploaded of like Nal_rA vs. Boxer or something. Two unorthodox players XD | ||
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
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Tfums
Canada476 Posts
On August 11 2005 21:52 Bill307 wrote: Hmm... an interesting idea. I'm not sure how to evaluate the map... It's a lot easier to just say no and walk away quietly. | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
So again I'm undecided . I also didn't think the paths at the side were very useful, but I'll wait until I get home to think about it some more and elaborate on why. | ||
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Musli
Poland5130 Posts
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MaGnIfIcA
Norway2312 Posts
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
go go S.Korea use that tai chi! Clever map in many ways. http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm | ||
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Empyrean
17082 Posts
Empyrean :  Starparty :  Fuck yes. | ||
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nortydog
Australia3067 Posts
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
On August 12 2005 13:00 Bill307 wrote: Actually I was thinking about it some more last night (damn Troku is right: I should have just waited until this morning or something instead of losing sleep thinking about it -_-;;;;; ). And I take back what I said about Z>P because it's "relatively" easy to acquire 3 gases as toss. Also the low-min nat in your main will again aid toss in this matchup (that is, until Zerg starts to harvest from their 2nd expo). So again I'm undecided . I also didn't think the paths at the side were very useful, but I'll wait until I get home to think about it some more and elaborate on why.well as you can see, the big questionmark here is the in-base 1nat. Altough we did discuss that quite alot and based on those conclusions we made i must say that it really should be both quite interesting and balanced. The sidepaths obviously have no direct function in early game except beeing expos wich can be harrased from behind the mineralline. That, by itself, is reason enough to have them, but what the picture might not show is that the 3 slots closest to the center only contains 500 minerals, thus opening new paths quite quickly as you play. This way the map may continuously change shape during a game. 1 game it might only be the center that is plyed on, but another game every block might be opened up, and suddenly there are 3-4-5 ways of entering hostile territory instead. Well, im definitelly flattered by You not beeing able to sleep because thinking of our map I think Empy would feel the same... | ||
uhjoo
Korea (South)1740 Posts
there are alot of interesting ideas here but i almost feel like there's too much going on-- in other words there are too many different themes. sometimes complexity breeds confusion rather than depth but to be more specific: 1) i really like the paradoxx land map theme, it obviously invites fe by P and T and there could be lots of head games on whether to prevent the fe or to play for mid/late game by matching expansions or outexpanding 2) the mineral wall on the low ground natural doesn't do much for me for two reasons: first, taking that low ground expansion will likely not happen very early as they're so wide open to attack so i just don't see the mineral wall coming into play unless the games get very long, and second, even when the side paths get open it's not a particularly interesting new path because the side path still leads directly to the critical chokes rather than a backdoor. i'm guessing the "reward" of breaking through the mineral wall is to be able to easily access the expos on the right and left for harass purposes but this is not much of a reward b/c of my next critique, which is: 3) i feel like the gas expos on the right and left of the map will also rarely come into play b/c no matter where your starting position is they're hard to defend/secure hope this type of critique is what you're looking for~ | ||
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
On August 13 2005 03:18 uhjoo wrote: i obviously haven't playtested the map but i'll make a few comments based solely on looking at the map: there are alot of interesting ideas here but i almost feel like there's too much going on-- in other words there are too many different themes. sometimes complexity breeds confusion rather than depth but to be more specific: 1) i really like the paradoxx land map theme, it obviously invites fe by P and T and there could be lots of head games on whether to prevent the fe or to play for mid/late game by matching expansions or outexpanding 2) the mineral wall on the low ground natural doesn't do much for me for two reasons: first, taking that low ground expansion will likely not happen very early as they're so wide open to attack so i just don't see the mineral wall coming into play unless the games get very long, and second, even when the side paths get open it's not a particularly interesting new path because the side path still leads directly to the critical chokes rather than a backdoor. i'm guessing the "reward" of breaking through the mineral wall is to be able to easily access the expos on the right and left for harass purposes but this is not much of a reward b/c of my next critique, which is: 3) i feel like the gas expos on the right and left of the map will also rarely come into play b/c no matter where your starting position is they're hard to defend/secure hope this type of critique is what you're looking for~ The idea of that small mineralblock is not much as giving reward if taking it, its rather a punnishment of you -don't- take it. Imagine terran setting up a steady push in the center. If p was slacking in the beginning and dint open up the map to better suit protoss gamestyle, then he has to blame himself, and has to find another way of gaming. The side expos are easier to take than it might look, dont forget that you have both the best prefered routes to that exp, both on highground, and below the high ground. By making maps with similar theme, ive noticed that that exp will act more as the "2nat" than the actual 2nat does. just because you can enter the exp on the otherside and harass doesnt mean you cant hold the exp. It should in no way be more difficult than a normal cliff, actually even easier since you have free line of sight. 2-3 photon, 2-3 sunk, a bunker.. its not like there is space to fit an entire army up there. Thinking about it, it might perhaps even be easier to hold.. im not really sure. if there actually would be any expansions that are "unnessecary", it would be the islands, since they are not really integrated to the gameplay. We added them because, as bill said, islands usually makes funny games. And as i said before. The only real "spectacular" thing would be the 1nat expanding possibillities.. The walls have been tried in other maps before. By the experience from making maps similar to this one with strategies matching these, id say the map probably is at it's pinnacle as it is... But thanks, i love to discuss these things objectivly. | ||
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mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
I'm not like those guys who say this to all maps posted here. btw i'm t player.. | ||
RaGe
Belgium9951 Posts
On August 11 2005 22:15 Empyrean wrote: Also, the only way for Zerg to Sunken wall without 3 hat is to build the Hatchery on the other side of the minerals. Zerg players probably won't do this though. Oh well. Thanks for your positive (?) review, Bill  yeah thats probably one of the best aspects of the map, that idea, it makes it very original and interesting I like it when maps require thinking so I can play mind games with my opponents | ||
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boongee
United States967 Posts
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
On August 12 2005 22:54 Empyrean wrote: If this map wins, Empyrean : Starparty : "............"Fuck yes. omg those smileys sux  | ||
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
On August 13 2005 05:40 boongee wrote: How many maps will there be for blizzcon? Three? At that rate, it'd be awesome if any of us won and got our map played like that. 5 maps. So i guess its possible that atleast 1 of us get a map in the pool :o | ||
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Vharox
United States1037 Posts
On August 11 2005 22:15 Empyrean wrote: Also, the only way for Zerg to Sunken wall without 3 hat is to build the Hatchery on the other side of the minerals. Zerg players probably won't do this though. Oh well. Thanks for your positive (?) review, Bill I'm a z player and once I saw that I thought exactly that. I would 12 hacth at ramp and then third hatch at gas. It would work. Especially vs p. EDIT: Oh and awesome map :-D looks so fun to play on. | ||
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