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Just for fun, preseason power rank. I've been inspired by all the NFL power ranks I've read over the last 9 weeks, and decided to do a similar thing for the 8 teams as we look to the start of the 11-12 season! SOON!
1. KT Rolster
Top 6: Flash, Stats, Mind, Action, Crazy-Hydra, Hoejja
Flash's supporting cast doesn't get enough credit. Stats is solid, and Action and Hoejja are good sometimes. Perfective came through in the playoffs, can he keep it up in 11-12 PL? Mind is a solid addition to round out the KT lineup. I'm not sure where Wooki will fit in, but he's good enough to contribute.
2. ~The Dream Team~
Top 6: Jaedong, Baby, Sea, Killer, Jaehoon, Tyson
#2 might be too high, but this team is so fuckin' good on paper. Their lineup is going to consist of a great zerg, a good zerg, 2 very good terrans, and 2 pretty good protosses. They look to be nearly unstoppable, but we'll see. SPONSOR THIS TEAM LG!
3. CJ Entus
Top 6: Effort, Hydra, Horang2, Movie, Leta, Snow
Effort is the only reason they're ranked ahead of SKT. Just like last year, CJ's lineup is killer on paper. Horang2 and Movie were the most surprising players of last season to me. They didn't deliver the goods last year, but the reinforcements have arrived.
4. SK Telecom T1
Top 6: Bisu, Fantasy, Sun, s2, Best, Soo
Bisu is unbeatable in proleague. Fantasy provides solid backup, as do s2 and Soo when they're on (or in Soo's case, when he gets matched up with a protoss) Best is a wildcard, you never know which Best you're going to get. Sun is only going to get better.
5. Samsung Khan
Top 6: Stork, Jangbi, Roro, Reality, Brave, Grape
Four protoss, on maps that are rumored to be protoss unfriendly.  Oh well, that's only for the first round. If the top three guys can stay consistent, Khan can contend for a top 4 spot. One of Stork's trademark hot streaks would only help. Reality is going to be a special player. Maybe either Brave or Grape gets dropped for Byul for some matches, but I think January will roll with the four protoss lineup mainly. Brave and Grape are too good to sit on the bench. Turn is an x-factor, I'm not sure what to think of him. I'm sure he'll get playing time though.
6. Woongjin Stars
Top 6: Zero, Soulkey, Free, Guemchi, Shy
Zero and Soulkey are beasts. Addition of Shy is good, because Flying wasn't cutting it if Free can get back to form, and Guemchi can go back to being G-Chizzle (even if it's only for winners league!) Stars can contend for a top 4 spot. I feel like I'm forgetting something, but I just can't see it.
7. STX Soul
Top 6: Bogus, Calm, Shuttle, Classic, Modesty, Hyvaa
Oh my, what a mess. I didn't even know who to project for the last two spots, so I just went with the guys with the highest elo. Hero and/or Last could start in place of Modesty and/or Hyvaa. It'll be a mystery until we see STX play. I see STX staying ahead of ACE, but getting left in the dust by everyone else. Bogus is the lone bright spot on the team. Maybe he'll finally get put in a reasonable Dual Tournament group and make a deep Starleague run to give the STX fans something to cheer about!
8. Air Force Ace
Top 6: Firebathero, Iris, ggaemo, Kal, M18M, great
The spot I gave to M18M could reasonably be any of the other ACE players except for Rock (sorry Rock).. I think ACE will win a better percentage of their games than last season, but not by much. If Kal can come back at anything close to his former strength, they might even challenge STX for the 7 spot.
That's it! Feel free to tell me if I left out anything obvious. I've been so excited for the start of the season ever since the 8th team's formation was announced!
Shout out to Hiya, hope you get picked up by a team. I might even have to re-do the power rank if Woongjin picks you up 
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
You missed  Light on Woongjin
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I didn't forget him, I just made a bad joke.
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Gogo SKT >: )
On November 05 2011 03:52 Gann1 wrote:
I didn't forget him, I just made a bad joke.
HAHAHAHA Woongjin Terrans XD
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It's not a  great list!
Also ACE team for gold!
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how did i forget about great
gonna add him, peace can get right out of the ace lineup
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I think mine is more accurate than yours:
#1 KT- Obviously the best.
#2 SKT- Obviously the second best.
#3 CJ- They did very well last season and Effort is returning to their ranks.
#4 Dream team- Very solid on paper but they were just formed so they'll take time to get along living with each other and practice etc. so I think they are up for a rough start, and after they figure out how to be a team, they'll do a lot better.
#5 Woongjin- Pretty solid but I have the feeling they aren't gonna do very well this season.
#6 Khan- They have Jangbi and if Stork starts to play like he used to they'll have 2 great protosses but that's not enough to have a solid team which can win game after game.
#7 STX- I've never liked them and I think they'll suck but not as bad as ace.
#8 Ace- They have some players I like but they are last every season and I don't think they'll be any better this season.
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I would swap CJ with KT. In addition to the six that you mentioned, CJ has Skyhigh as well. If Effort is in form to compete at the highest level, CJ has the best team. I think Khan and Stars should be switched as well. Khan is just too Protoss dependent. Then again, I might be a bit bias, because of the addition of Shy to their line up.
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One thing I thought of that worries me about the Dream Team is that they don't have a lot of in-house practice partners. Didn't think of that until after I posted, but I'll stand by them at #2.
Roro on Khan is what made me put them ahead of Stars. Also - Reality, Grape, and Brave are good players, they're a lot better than Woongjin's 4-5-6 players. All Woongjin has is the big three unless Free learns how to play starcraft again.
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United States8476 Posts
On November 05 2011 03:59 pred470r wrote:
I think mine is more accurate than yours:
#1 KT- Obviously the best.
#2 SKT- Obviously the second best.
#3 CJ- They did very well last season and Effort is returning to their ranks.
#4 Dream team- Very solid on paper but they were just formed so they'll take time to get along living with each other and practice etc. so I think they are up for a rough start, and after they figure out how to be a team, they'll do a lot better.
#5 Woongjin- Pretty solid but I have the feeling they aren't gonna do very well this season.
#6 Khan- They have Jangbi and if Stork starts to play like he used to they'll have 2 great protosses but that's not enough to have a solid team which can win game after game.
#7 STX- I've never liked them and I think they'll suck but not as bad as ace.
#8 Ace- They have some players I like but they are last every season and I don't think they'll be any better this season.
I like this one better too. It's close to what I would have.
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Is this effort's first season back?
I doubt he's godtier status again.
CJ should be #6
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I'm a khan fan and even I can't justify Khan over CJ, even without Effort.
If the rumors to be believed, Effort was beasting CJ's in-house tournaments last year, before he was allowed to play on stage again. He might not be back in top form, but you have to imagine he's damn close.
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Dooods, you gotta remember that ACE were actually doing really well in last seasons PL, except WL. They gonna go for gold this season.
ACE hwaiting!
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im checking almost every day any info about new seasons.. I hope vods would be up too when games start.. so when first games 20 november?
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On November 05 2011 04:07 RoieTRS wrote:
Is this effort's first season back?
I doubt he's godtier status again.
CJ should be #6
Why? They were second in last year proleague and just failed to win final... and EffOrts form won't be bigger obstacle than new team chemistry. Stars also lost Really.
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From what I've seen/read etc. etc., CJ should be ranked higher in the list, probably 2nd or even the 1st.
Very solid as a team.
On the EffOrt bashing post above:
All I can say is: ha. ha. ha. Just wait till Proleague begins 
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CJ 1st imo. KT weren't all that good in the non-WL rounds. SKT is a tough one to call because so much of their PL success depends on Bisu.
Edit:
Also, can't wait for Dream Team vs SKT match. Coach Joo vs Coach Park.
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ACE at the last place ? That is not going to happen this season. I belive. And so so you.
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
#1: Woongjin Stars; Clearly its my fanboyism, but hey, this is the year!
#2: SKT, their current form is only to get better
#3: CJ, The addition of Eff0rt is going to spike their playset much higher.
#4: KT, Flash is getting back in form, but the other players have yet to really prove to me that they are ready to shine (Hoejja, you got this!)
#5: Dream Team. This team would be crazy on paper, but my main concern is team chemistry. I want to be proven wrong here
#6: Khan, only really two solid players, Jangbi and Stork. Just not enough to pull through in bo7
#7: STX, That's Bogus
#8: ACE, Its kinda by default that ACE is here, but they have preformed well last year, so who knows?
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Dont forget about ACE. We havent heard from them all summer. While the other teams were chilling at their vacation resorts and receiving massages in bath houses, these guys must have been training day in day out. Remember, in army there is no vacation, you sserve when you serve. I can very well see the success of FBH and Ggaemo last season pumping up the rest of the team for solid performance in proleague.
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Dream Team #1:Because they are best.
about 2345678
i dont care.
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Mind+wooki additions might be too much for SKT
We'll see
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It's so hard to predict things like this before they happen. Lots of teams have different strengths and weaknesses on paper...but they could be totally wrong or different in game. This might not be who wins proleague this season but I think this will closely represent my opinions on a team rank :D
I ended up writing a TON more than planned.... :x
#1 CJ: + Show Spoiler +I'm putting CJ here because of their really, really solid team. Horang2 stepped his game up a ton. Movie is looking like his former self. Snow has kind of faded out but he's still deadly at time - see Snow vs JD (contender for best series of last season, imo). Hydra is absurdly strong, just needs to focus on consistent strength instead of bursts of absurdly good playing ability. Leta has been playing for the ace position at CJ up there with Hydra. They even have reliable snipers and rookies, and people like Skyhigh and Hero for clutch matches. Effort has supposedly been tearing up the in house tournaments so the potential for him to return as strong as his previous self is possible. Frightening team for other coaches to be up against. They have SO many options it's got to be difficult to prepare.
#2 KT: + Show Spoiler +Flash lol. Stats has been playing as a great second ace for KT recently, and I highly doubt he is going to slip up anytime soon. Newest acquisition Mind is a pretty consistently good player. Not someone to rely your team on, but I think Mind is going to benefit from being on the same team as Flash - he's better than Barracks and Suny by far so he can benefit a lot more from Flash's higher level. Hoejja basically turned the PL Finals around for KT, and he's been playing better and better. I feel like he will be a major player in this season's KT team, plus...he's Hoejja and an awesome old school player. I really dislike Action but he is a solid 75%-tier zerg, not consistent enough to be a major game-changer but he's not someone other teams can roll over easily. Perfective gets a shout-out here because he is named very appropriate. You see this guy in post season? "Fuck losing, I'm perfect." Similar to CJ, they have other players like Crazy-Hydra, BarrackS, Tempest that can take a game from time to time as well.
#3 SKT: + Show Spoiler +Third and Fourth are basically a tie, however I am giving SKT the edge to the #3 spot. Bisu has been playing strong lately, more consistant than he used to and the team has a pretty reliable ace now. Fanboy shield activated, but Bisu was NOT a reliable ace player for a long time, but I think he's back. Fantasy is putting up the results in the individual leagues where Bisu cannot, I know it's been said a million times but Fantasy is a huge preparation style player, I feel like...maybe not the hugest asset in PL but he's a force to be reckoned with. The problem I see in SKT is that they have so many unreliables. Protoss battle-buddy Best is just hit or miss, but plays good Starcraft for sure. Soo has turned on the afterburner lately, but he's still more of a "sniper" in my eyes. s2 isn't anything to write home about, Hyuk has a meme started after him for a reason, Ssak, Sun, Paralyze...maybe they will surprise us after the off season.
#4 Dream Team: + Show Spoiler +Fourth was given to Dream Team just because I feel like they are going to need more time together to really put up the results. I feel like once they are in their "groove" they will do VERY well. Jaedong is obviously the team ace, you might say...I'm not so sure. He's got some hurdles to go through, and I hate to say it but I think someone else might take the ace spot here. Baby was on fire last season, and it feels like he may have either exhausted himself or burnt out. I think he's going to come back strong after a rest and post team drama. Sea is just brutally consistent in PL, and he's still a great player ( maybe he will read this :o <3 ) and with a new coach might be able to break through his Individual league curse! Killer is a great backup zerg to the team, he's benefited quite a bit from being the second zerg on Hwaesung, and has been getting better every season. Jaehoon is in the same boat as Killer, he's shon a lot of improvement, hopefully the new coach can get Jaehoon's stage nerves out of his system somehow. I feel like that is his largest limiter, is nerves. No backups for this team, really, though....so we'll see. Tyson definitely has a lot of headroom to improve, and I think he will benefit a lot from being on a team with a lot of skilled players.
The rest are kind of tough to rank.
#5 Samsung KHAN: + Show Spoiler +Jangbi is back in dragon form, and I bet he's going to start kicking some major ass in the up-coming season. Hopefully no OSL slump here. Kind of banking on that actually for this spot, haha. Stork was actually starting to put some results together last season, and I think that he's capable of putting out some wins in this up coming season, inspired by his protoss brother. New acquisition Roro will help out the most race imbalanced team in the league (seriously KHAN is like 90% protoss 10% meh) and as the destroyer of antiteams will definitely make a mark in PL this season. Brave, Grape, Sharp, Turn round out the rest of this team, with ELOs all sitting within a 100 point range of Stork. I'd say KHAN has the team with "best of the middle class" stamped on it this year.
#6 Airforce ACE: + Show Spoiler +It feels wrong to put these guys here, and I feel like they are going to be in Samsung territory. Kal is a great player and might bring some much needed change to the Ace lineup. Firebathero is no longer one to slouch at, he brought out the big guns last season and I anticipate him doing so again this year. Ggaemo had some good face time, similar to FBH, and started picking up the PL pieces and took some key wins. Iris has been taking the lead of FBH and put up a handful of good results last season. Great is well...not all that great, but you can't count out some good games from him; hive tech ZvZ is not a thing of the past and I hope great gets to show us this again. Piano, Canata, Orion, were all part of last season's good placement and they have nowhere to go but up from here. I think ACE will be the big upset this season.
#7 Woongjin Stars: + Show Spoiler +Again #5, #6 and #7 are practically interchangeable. In the end, these teams are probably the least predictable...they could do better or worse. Zero is here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and he's all out of gum. Fun fact: Zero is currently #3 ELO rank! (by 3 points..) He did really well and his results are looking sharp. I imagine another good year for Zero this season. Backing him up is Neo.G.Soulkey, different in playstyles but similar in results. Certainly another one of those "proleague stars" that I think will be shaking the chains this year, keep an eye out for him in ace matches. Free is just about as inconsistent as Best, however Free is much more fun to watch...not that it means anything for a "power rank" but the man knows how to beat your head in with a psyblade. A strong free is a pretty scary and easy-to-lose-against free. is another regular PL beast, on some absurd zerg killing streak, and I think will have another good season, as he seemed to be pick up his game near the end of last season (P.S. it's Light.). Their new pickup Shy is nothing to scoff at either, not the greatest player in his own right, but has something to prove now that he's not buried in other players. We should get to see some air time and see what he's capable of this season.
#8 STX SouL: + Show Spoiler [whiny pathetic bitch rant] +I hate putting my team so far down here, but I'm just...not sure this year. Maybe I'm a terrible fan, but find any STX diehard and you'll see we've all got the same bummed/depressed face on. It's different than being a Khan or Stars fan because we don't put up individual league results either. I REALLY hope this year is different, but I'm not expecting in. Inconsistency is the name of the STX game, I'm afraid.
+ Show Spoiler [Write up] +With Kal now in the air force, we are missing a major player in our lineup. Bogus went from getting a win now and then to hardly ever losing. The guy tore PL a new one, against ALL teams. Hopefully mini-Flash can keep it up this year. Similar to Hyuk, Calm/Clam has a meme started up after him for a reason. If Calm plays well, he plays outstanding, but it's often a coin flip. You either get an impressively good game or a depressingly bad game. Shuttle is the new protoss ace, and as the team captain, I hope he takes his inconsistent game play and shoves it out the door. He took a few games from Flash last year in a convincing fashion but wasn't able to put it together for the rest of the season. Modesty started showing some promise near the end of the season, so there's hope that we will continue to see results out of him as well. Hero, Classic, hyvaa, and Last are all capable of a game now and then, hopefully someone steps up and takes charge in that group. Newest pick up Dear is not a bad player by any means, defeating Stats and Stork with ease on his previous team, so we will see where the STX staff takes him.
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On November 05 2011 05:39 Torenhire wrote:#8 STX SouL: + Show Spoiler [whiny pathetic bitch rant] +I hate putting my team so far down here, but I'm just...not sure this year. Maybe I'm a terrible fan, but find any STX diehard and you'll see we've all got the same bummed/depressed face on. It's different than being a Khan or Stars fan because we don't put up individual league results either. I REALLY hope this year is different, but I'm not expecting in. Inconsistency is the name of the STX game, I'm afraid. With Kal now in the air force, we are missing a major player in our lineup. Bogus went from getting a win now and then to hardly ever losing. The guy tore PL a new one, against ALL teams. Hopefully mini-Flash can keep it up this year. Similar to Hyuk, Calm/Clam has a meme started up after him for a reason. If Calm plays well, he plays outstanding, but it's often a coin flip. You either get an impressively good game or a depressingly bad game. Shuttle is the new protoss ace, and as the team captain, I hope he takes his inconsistent game play and shoves it out the door. He took a few games from Flash last year in a convincing fashion but wasn't able to put it together for the rest of the season. Modesty started showing some promise near the end of the season, so there's hope that we will continue to see results out of him as well. Hero, Classic, hyvaa, and Last are all capable of a game now and then, hopefully someone steps up and takes charge in that group. Newest pick up Dear is not a bad player by any means, defeating Stats and Stork with ease on his previous team, so we will see where the STX staff takes him.
To me I really can't tell if STX will be at the bottom or pull things together. Bogus seemed to be on fire near the end of last season, but with such a big break it will be hard to predict if he can keep that momentum going. Calm has streaks of brilliance, which usually show up near the beginning of each season. with kal gone there will definitely be some more playtime for hyvaa/classic/modesty, and hopefully one of them can pull through.
on the other hand, STX still made the playoffs last season with the same roster (with kal having a horrible winrate but still playing each match), and came closer to beating KT in the playoffs than any other team. I'd like to see STX pick up shine or hiya, but regardless I remain optimistic about the next season.
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completely agree with Torenhire. Had the same list
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Estonia4504 Posts
On November 05 2011 09:11 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 05:39 Torenhire wrote:#8 STX SouL: + Show Spoiler [whiny pathetic bitch rant] +I hate putting my team so far down here, but I'm just...not sure this year. Maybe I'm a terrible fan, but find any STX diehard and you'll see we've all got the same bummed/depressed face on. It's different than being a Khan or Stars fan because we don't put up individual league results either. I REALLY hope this year is different, but I'm not expecting in. Inconsistency is the name of the STX game, I'm afraid. With Kal now in the air force, we are missing a major player in our lineup. Bogus went from getting a win now and then to hardly ever losing. The guy tore PL a new one, against ALL teams. Hopefully mini-Flash can keep it up this year. Similar to Hyuk, Calm/Clam has a meme started up after him for a reason. If Calm plays well, he plays outstanding, but it's often a coin flip. You either get an impressively good game or a depressingly bad game. Shuttle is the new protoss ace, and as the team captain, I hope he takes his inconsistent game play and shoves it out the door. He took a few games from Flash last year in a convincing fashion but wasn't able to put it together for the rest of the season. Modesty started showing some promise near the end of the season, so there's hope that we will continue to see results out of him as well. Hero, Classic, hyvaa, and Last are all capable of a game now and then, hopefully someone steps up and takes charge in that group. Newest pick up Dear is not a bad player by any means, defeating Stats and Stork with ease on his previous team, so we will see where the STX staff takes him. To me I really can't tell if STX will be at the bottom or pull things together. Bogus seemed to be on fire near the end of last season, but with such a big break it will be hard to predict if he can keep that momentum going. Calm has streaks of brilliance, which usually show up near the beginning of each season. with kal gone there will definitely be some more playtime for hyvaa/classic/modesty, and hopefully one of them can pull through. on the other hand, STX still made the playoffs last season with the same roster (with kal having a horrible winrate but still playing each match), and came closer to beating KT in the playoffs than any other team. I'd like to see STX pick up shine or hiya, but regardless I remain optimistic about the next season.
Have some faith. Just a bit of faith can go a long way, and remember why we are fans in the first place - we know what these players are capable of. Sure, at times things look bad, but if we DO perform, not even the Evil Empire has a chance. We were the first to break the invincible Evil Empire and it's despicable ace. We made that same undefeatable ace cry in OSL. We were the only ones who 4-0-d KT in the playoffs with Flash playing. We were the ones who pulled it together in the last few games of the season to make the playoffs. Give us time and we'll bash some heads.
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 Kal and great in ACE. You guys seriously under-estimate ACE.
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Australia7069 Posts
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason
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On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason
Jaehoon is not a scrub, not in the slightest. He has better results than Tyson
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason
Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too.
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On November 05 2011 04:12 villageidiot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 04:07 RoieTRS wrote:
Is this effort's first season back?
I doubt he's godtier status again.
CJ should be #6 Why? They were second in last year proleague and just failed to win final... and EffOrts form won't be bigger obstacle than new team chemistry. Stars also lost Really.
Third ircc. : )
CJ is all clutch and all, but they seem to they seem to really underperform in the playoffs. I wish skyhigh played more, snow were more consistent in the later rounds and they pump effort and leta with steriods for aces : )
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I was so close to getting top 4 correct last year but KT had to go and beat SKT. GL rankers.
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Australia7069 Posts
On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too.
jaedong lost his last 2 games,
baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea
bisu is 9/10
k
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Baa?21243 Posts
In the end nothing is gonna change, KT and SKT are still 1-2 everyone else still sucks.
CJ overrated Effort is gonna retire in less than 6 months after going 0-5 or something in proleague.
Dream Team looks solid, still gonna go barely 50/50 in games. Jaedong sucks now. Sea's OK but not great, plenty of comparable players floating around out there and plenty better. Baby has always sucked Killer's not actually good, it'll be a miracle if Jaehoon Tyson go above 40 percent winrates.
Khan closest to giving KT SKT a run for their money but Stork still sucks. Rest of the team is solid though.
STX sucks more than anyone and is the worst team ever though. 8th place here we come.
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On November 05 2011 10:51 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
In the end nothing is gonna change, KT and SKT are still 1-2 everyone else still sucks.
CJ overrated Effort is gonna retire in less than 6 months after going 0-5 or something in proleague.
Dream Team looks solid, still gonna go barely 50/50 in games. Jaedong sucks now. Sea's OK but not great, plenty of comparable players floating around out there and plenty better. Baby has always sucked Killer's not actually good, it'll be a miracle if Jaehoon Tyson go above 40 percent winrates.
Khan closest to giving KT SKT a run for their money but Stork still sucks. Rest of the team is solid though.
10 bucks say DreamTeam(team KeSPA) will ruin KT-SKT final and becoming champion.
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On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k
In the end nothing is gonna change, KT and SKT are still 1-2 everyone else still sucks.
CJ overrated Effort is gonna retire in less than 6 months after going 0-5 or something in proleague.
Dream Team looks solid, still gonna go barely 50/50 in games. Jaedong sucks now. Sea's OK but not great, plenty of comparable players floating around out there and plenty better. Baby has always sucked Killer's not actually good, it'll be a miracle if Jaehoon Tyson go above 40 percent winrates.
Khan closest to giving KT SKT a run for their money but Stork still sucks. Rest of the team is solid though.
Jaehoon has won 15 of his last 20 games with noticeable scalps like Zero, Calm, Snow, Shuttle, free and ggaemo.
Jaedong is capable of bouncing back, that's what all legends do. It's also not a stretch to think that he was distracted, what with Oz disbanding and his grandfather's ill health which culminated into his passing. It is only human to be off your game in that situation.
Baby is still developing and his losses were to guys like Bisu, Jangbi in Zeus mode and Killer in minidong mode.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On November 05 2011 10:58 cklrkzk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 10:51 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
In the end nothing is gonna change, KT and SKT are still 1-2 everyone else still sucks.
CJ overrated Effort is gonna retire in less than 6 months after going 0-5 or something in proleague.
Dream Team looks solid, still gonna go barely 50/50 in games. Jaedong sucks now. Sea's OK but not great, plenty of comparable players floating around out there and plenty better. Baby has always sucked Killer's not actually good, it'll be a miracle if Jaehoon Tyson go above 40 percent winrates.
Khan closest to giving KT SKT a run for their money but Stork still sucks. Rest of the team is solid though. 10 bucks say DreamTeam(team KeSPA) will ruin KT-SKT final and becoming champion.
I'll bet any amount that they won't but I have no idea who you are so I can't exactly expect a return on the bet.
Dream Team is still gonna do better than CJ though so that's worth something.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k
lol that's all you got?
Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close.
So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage.
Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group.
If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that.
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On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group.If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that.
People really need to stop referring to that as a down on Bisu's record
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:09 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group.If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that. People really need to stop referring to that as a down on Bisu's record
Well it's really not since he had to play Flash twice.
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On November 05 2011 11:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:09 Dakkas wrote:On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group.If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that. People really need to stop referring to that as a down on Bisu's record Well it's really not since he had to play Flash twice.
Exactly
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when the league start up again?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
Jaedong's slump was mostly due to lack of motivation(I guess it was because of OZ disbanding) and his ZvZ.
while his ZvZ I cannot comment on right now,but I'm damn sure hes more motivated now.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:23 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:14 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 11:09 Dakkas wrote:On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group.If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that. People really need to stop referring to that as a down on Bisu's record Well it's really not since he had to play Flash twice. Exactly
...that's the point.
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So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead
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Woongjin gonna win proleague this year. Take it to the bank!
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United States7639 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group. If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that.
Um. That... isn't how you measure slumping. You don't compare a player with other players. You compare him with himself from before. Slumping means one is performing below one's usual standards.
Jaedong's usual IL standards: winning 238723 OSLs a year. Bisu's usual standards: maybe getting to Ro8. Who do you think fell behind their usual individual league standards this year? lol
And then there's Proleague.
2010-2011 season:
Jaedong: 51-23 (68.9%)
Bisu: 63-15 (80.7%)
2009-2010 season:
Jaedong: 52-21 (71.2%)
Bisu: 27-17 (56.6%)
And too lazy to do the rest of the years, so have the team league career stats:
Jaedong: 240-109 (68.7%)
Bisu: 190-95 (66.67%)
Jaedong looks like he's performing at pretty much the same level as always. But I don't think you can even make a case for slumping with Bisu. Like, at all. His win rate went up 24%(!!!) from last year. This is the best he's ever done in his entire life in Proleague. Hell, this is the best anyone has ever done in Proleague.
I wouldn't say Jaedong is necessarily slumping. But he's lacking the same fire or whatever it was that allowed him to go 71% in Proleague in 2009, while winning 2 OSLs that same year.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead
If you lose to the best player you're not the best player. Pretty simple lol.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead
The point is, if Kiante can make a ridiculous conclusion based on an arbitrary interpretation of a single statistic then my equally ridiculous conclusion is more valid since it relies on two statistics instead of one. Alternatively if not advancing out of his MSL group = slumping, then not advancing out of his MSL group + not even qualifying for his OSL group = mega-slumping.
Clearly "Jaedong is slumping because he lost two games" and "Bisu is slumping because he didn't win the OSL and MSL" are not intelligible conclusions.
But I'm just overreacting.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:35 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group. If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that. Um. That... isn't how you measure slumping. You don't compare a player with other players. You compare him with himself from before. Slumping means one is performing below one's usual standards. Jaedong's usual IL standards: winning 238723 OSLs a year. Bisu's usual standards: maybe getting to Ro8. Who do you think fell behind their usual individual league standards this year? lol And then there's Proleague. 2010-2011 season: Jaedong: 51-23 (68.9%) Bisu: 63-15 (80.7%) 2009-2010 season: Jaedong: 52-21 (71.2%) Bisu: 27-17 (56.6%) And too lazy to do the rest of the years, so have the team league career stats: Jaedong: 240-109 (68.7%) Bisu: 190-95 (66.67%) Jaedong looks like he's performing at pretty much the same level as always. But I don't think you can even make a case for slumping with Bisu. Like, at all. His win rate went up 24%(!!!) from last year. This is the best he's ever done in his entire life in Proleague. Hell, this is the best anyone has ever done in Proleague. I wouldn't say Jaedong is necessarily slumping. But he's lacking the same fire or whatever it was that allowed him to go 71% in Proleague in 2009, while winning 2 OSLs that same year.
Sarcasm.
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dream team, cj, khan, kt, skt
all great rosters
but i wonder how well they will play in pl
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You miss out wooki in kt .
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Dang three of my favorite players in the DT (zing!) but I'm CJ4life.
Anyway S(KT) are going DOWN.
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On November 05 2011 11:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead If you lose to the best player you're not the best player. Pretty simple lol.
Your reading ability is genius, thank you for that correction
Now I better go back and change where I said Bisu is the best player.........................................OH WAIT
On November 05 2011 11:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead The point is, if Kiante can make a retarded conclusion based on an arbitrary interpretation of a single statistic then my equally retarded conclusion is more valid since it relies on two statistics instead of one. Alternatively if not advancing out of his MSL group = slumping, then not advancing out of his MSL group + not even qualifying for his OSL group = mega-slumping. Clearly "Jaedong is slumping because he lost two games" and "Bisu is slumping because he didn't win the OSL and MSL" are not intelligible conclusions.
My earlier posts in this thread were defending Jaedong. I'm simply contesting that MSL group of death as a blemish on Bisu's record
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United States7639 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:43 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:35 Kiett wrote:On November 05 2011 11:06 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 10:42 Kiante wrote:On November 05 2011 09:47 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 09:43 Kiante wrote:
calling SKT #4 is way too low. dream team #2 way too high..
evidence:
jaedong - slumping
baby - slumping
sea - slumping
jaehoon - still a scrub
tyson and killer are doing decent, but i expect khan to be ahead of them come midseason Guess Bisu = slumping by those standards too. jaedong lost his last 2 games, baby is 5/10 from his last 10, so is sea bisu is 9/10 k lol that's all you got? Before those two games Jaedong was on a 10 game win-streak with victories over Flash, Fantasy, Jangbi, and the "slumping" Sea. With that Jaedong has won the last 5 games vs Flash, most of those not even being close. So let's talk about Bisu's performance in the last OSL. Oh wait, he couldn't even qualify for the group stage. Ok, then I'll refer to his ABC Mart MSL run. Oh wait, he couldn't make it out of his group. If Jaedong is struggling because he failed to make it out of his OSL group, then I guess Bisu is struggling more according to your logic. He may be a Proleague god but he still has to prove he is more than just that. Um. That... isn't how you measure slumping. You don't compare a player with other players. You compare him with himself from before. Slumping means one is performing below one's usual standards. Jaedong's usual IL standards: winning 238723 OSLs a year. Bisu's usual standards: maybe getting to Ro8. Who do you think fell behind their usual individual league standards this year? lol And then there's Proleague. 2010-2011 season: Jaedong: 51-23 (68.9%) Bisu: 63-15 (80.7%) 2009-2010 season: Jaedong: 52-21 (71.2%) Bisu: 27-17 (56.6%) And too lazy to do the rest of the years, so have the team league career stats: Jaedong: 240-109 (68.7%) Bisu: 190-95 (66.67%) Jaedong looks like he's performing at pretty much the same level as always. But I don't think you can even make a case for slumping with Bisu. Like, at all. His win rate went up 24%(!!!) from last year. This is the best he's ever done in his entire life in Proleague. Hell, this is the best anyone has ever done in Proleague. I wouldn't say Jaedong is necessarily slumping. But he's lacking the same fire or whatever it was that allowed him to go 71% in Proleague in 2009, while winning 2 OSLs that same year. Sarcasm.
I was referring to Kiante's posts. Quoted you by mistake, my bad.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:46 Sawamura wrote:
You miss out wooki in kt .
only a few people really payed attention to him,even after the mini writeup Kiante wrote on him.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:52 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead If you lose to the best player you're not the best player. Pretty simple lol. Your reading ability is genius, thank you for that correction Now I better go back and change where I said Bisu is the best player.........................................OH WAIT Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead The point is, if Kiante can make a retarded conclusion based on an arbitrary interpretation of a single statistic then my equally retarded conclusion is more valid since it relies on two statistics instead of one. Alternatively if not advancing out of his MSL group = slumping, then not advancing out of his MSL group + not even qualifying for his OSL group = mega-slumping. Clearly "Jaedong is slumping because he lost two games" and "Bisu is slumping because he didn't win the OSL and MSL" are not intelligible conclusions. My earlier posts in this thread were defending Jaedong. I'm simply contesting that MSL group of death as a blemish on Bisu's record
Losing to Flash is nothing to be ashamed of.
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Is the format Bo7 or Bo5? If it's Bo5 I'm kinda worried about KT and SKT. CJ and the Dream Team both have strong players at the top, at least 4 players who are capable of S-class play (for a single game at least). Imagine a lineup of Jaedong, Baby, Sea, Killer or Effort, Hydra, Snow, Leta with all players playing at or near their best.
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Australia7069 Posts
On November 05 2011 11:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead The point is, if Kiante can make a ridiculous conclusion based on an arbitrary interpretation of a single statistic then my equally ridiculous conclusion is more valid since it relies on two statistics instead of one. Alternatively if not advancing out of his MSL group = slumping, then not advancing out of his MSL group + not even qualifying for his OSL group = mega-slumping. Clearly "Jaedong is slumping because he lost two games" and "Bisu is slumping because he didn't win the OSL and MSL" are not intelligible conclusions. But I'm just overreacting.
i use stats from their most recent games. you pull on information over the whole season. form slumps are about recent form. My points of data are relevant, and yours aren't. bisu may have failed to qualify for the OSL but his last 10 games he's lost only one. meanwhile jaedong lost his last two games of the season to hyvaa and hyuk.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup.
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United States11390 Posts
On November 05 2011 10:51 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
In the end nothing is gonna change, KT and SKT are still 1-2 everyone else still sucks.
CJ overrated Effort is gonna retire in less than 6 months after going 0-5 or something in proleague.
Dream Team looks solid, still gonna go barely 50/50 in games. Jaedong sucks now. Sea's OK but not great, plenty of comparable players floating around out there and plenty better. Baby has always sucked Killer's not actually good, it'll be a miracle if Jaehoon Tyson go above 40 percent winrates.
Khan closest to giving KT SKT a run for their money but Stork still sucks. Rest of the team is solid though.
STX sucks more than anyone and is the worst team ever though. 8th place here we come.
Wow Cheep, you don't even believe in your own team.
Tsk tsk.
(Of course how could you so it's understandable that you feel this way.)
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On November 05 2011 12:27 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup.
That's probably op's opinion about kt previous run ,however I think it's too fast to come to a conclusion kt performance solely on two proleague wins. I need to see how they perform the first few months ..
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United States7639 Posts
On November 05 2011 12:27 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup.
Probably because that's the same thing you would have been able to say about them in 2010. And in 2011. Look who won both years.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 05 2011 12:27 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup.
We learned last Proleague that "just on paper alone" doesn't measure up. Snow broke my heart with his level of play. ;_;
On November 05 2011 12:14 Kiante wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 11:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:On November 05 2011 11:32 Dakkas wrote:
So losing to the best player ever is a downside?
He was unlucky with his draw, we don't know what would have happened if he played Jaedong instead The point is, if Kiante can make a ridiculous conclusion based on an arbitrary interpretation of a single statistic then my equally ridiculous conclusion is more valid since it relies on two statistics instead of one. Alternatively if not advancing out of his MSL group = slumping, then not advancing out of his MSL group + not even qualifying for his OSL group = mega-slumping. Clearly "Jaedong is slumping because he lost two games" and "Bisu is slumping because he didn't win the OSL and MSL" are not intelligible conclusions. But I'm just overreacting. i use stats from their most recent games. you pull on information over the whole season. form slumps are about recent form. My points of data are relevant, and yours aren't. bisu may have failed to qualify for the OSL but his last 10 games he's lost only one. meanwhile jaedong lost his last two games of the season to hyvaa and hyuk. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
See if I go back 2 games, then Jaedong has gone 0-2. If I go back 10 games, he suddenly becomes 8-2. And if I go back 12 10-2, with a 9-1 record in PL and a 9 game winning streak. Currently Bisu only has a 5 game winning streak in PL while going 9-1 as well.
If I'm referring to OSL group games, then Jaedong has only gone 1-2 and seems to be in a slump. Funny thing is Bisu didn't lose any group games because he wasn't good enough to get to the groups, which is far more pathetic than merely failing to advance from it.
So choose whatever form of cherry-picking you want. Either Jaedong performed just as well as Bisu in PL, or Jaedong outplayed Bisu to get to the point where losses are actually recorded in TLPD for the OSL. Either way it takes far more than 2 BO1's spread over 2 weeks to tell if a player is slumping or not. "Jaedong is slumping" indicates a much longer time period than you're quoting.
For the record, I do think Jaedong is slumping hard in his ZvZ. But you're not exactly proving it with such a small sample size.
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Well Winners league may not even be 2 rounds this time. Plus the issue with Flash and if he will fully recover or not. I feel like Flash had past his peak already last season personally.. i think most would agree he was at his best in 2010. At the end of last season he was already starting to drop games to the best players in every matchup much more than in 2010, Jaedong even on a 4 game winstreak against him.
I predict Jaedong to be the top PL player this time. With finally some top quality backup he won't need to be sent out very predictably and prepared for well. If the coaches are good hopefully he can be in a Bisu like situation; trying to catch out other teams with a ZvP. And maybe him and BaBy can both push their TvZ to new heights which is a scary thought.
Edit; also remember in regards to KT this year, there's less 'easy wins' in PL this time. Aside from ACE and prehaps to some extent STX; everyone else is pretty strong this time. You got 3 whole games per round against somewhat weaker teams gone.
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United States23455 Posts
On November 05 2011 12:27 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup.
Because they have the best player in the world and are the only back-to-back champions in Proleague history. They also just added a strong secondary terran for Flash and a promising protoss rookie. If Flash plays like he is Flash, then KT will end up in the finals for the third straight year. I believe in Flash, Stats, Mind, Wooki and the battery of zerg. Except for Action. I never believe in Action.
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It sounds like it's staying BO7, in which case that lineup doesn't look particularly strong over the other teams though. They already struggled in regular PL last season, now there's 3 weaker teams out of the question and 1 harder team instead. Even if there is 2 rounds of WL again this year, that's going to be harder in general too. We don't even know how Flash is going to do after surgery at the moment. Last year they were 3rd helped heavily by the WL, this year the competition will be much tighter. I think the new team, with Jaedong and real quality backup has as much potential as KT, at least.
If EffOrt is back to form (it sounds like he never really stopped playing for long), then with the new team arrangements every team except ACE/STX has a player who can give Flash a good challenge in BO1 matches (Jangbi 4-4, Stork 10-9, Jaedong 23-21, ZerO 4-7 (3-1 in PL), BeSt 6-7 (5-4 in PL), EffOrt 6-6, even Calm on STX is 3-3 in PL games). He's now also prehaps the most predictable ace player now JD has a better team, so that makes him the obvious target for one player to solely practice for on 1 map. Both MBC/FOX gone means 2 less teams with no good ace, and 'new Oz' more likely to actually get to ace. Over the whole season that's a big difference.
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wow .. STX fans needs lighten up. O.o
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On November 05 2011 15:08 aimaimaim wrote:
wow .. STX fans needs lighten up. O.o
How about just Kalm down?
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people need to remember that we have no idea how good effort actually is now. He could be just as good as when he left (which was top 10 material but not top 5), or just another A-teamer now.
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I am gonna laugh so hard if STX swoops the round 10-0 and Calm becomes good again..
At this point they can only perform better than people expeoct them to.
KT es da best team allways (so is my bias)... In WL and Playoffs, other than that we are pretty inconsistent in when we decide to win.. Hopefully Hoejja and Stats keep their mojo so they can support flash... Then theres the next line of Mind, Wooki, Action (this is his breakout season, just wait for it!), Perfective, Tempest and Wooki... Excited about that wooki guy 
I dont see SKT doing worse or better, but that depends on Fantasy and Bisu... Cus if either of them decides to not continue their hot streaks from last year SKT1 is gonna fall.
Woongjin and Khan is probally gonna be what they were last year, middle teams who probally beats the top teams from time to time.. and then there is ACE which I just dont know about..
Dream team and CJ are 2 teams which looks amazing on paper... just dont know if they can live up to their potential..
my 2 cents 
On November 05 2011 13:36 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 12:27 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup. Because they have the best player in the world and are the only back-to-back champions in Proleague history. They also just added a strong secondary terran for Flash and a promising protoss rookie. If Flash plays like he is Flash, then KT will end up in the finals for the third straight year. I believe in Flash, Stats, Mind, Wooki and the battery of zerg. Except for Action. I never believe in Action.
I still dotn get why people bash Action who has a bad and then fucking awesome potential but a guy like crazy-hydra who hasn't really performed well at all on KT gets no trash from people who like a team for only liking the top players..
Frankly disappointment is not a feeling far away from what feel towards that..
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On November 05 2011 12:27 infinity2k9 wrote:
Why would KT be top when all you can say about their other players is 'they are good sometimes'. Just on paper alone, CJ seems like easily the strongest with EffOrt back. It's a ridiculous lineup.
Because on paper, KT beat CJ 8-4 in the playoffs? Unless Effort accounts for 2 wins a match (which is basically saying Effort is favored vs Flash), then I don't see how you can say he makes a big enough change to be what vaults CJ over KT.
On November 05 2011 12:45 infinity2k9 wrote:
Well Winners league may not even be 2 rounds this time. Plus the issue with Flash and if he will fully recover or not. I feel like Flash had past his peak already last season personally.. i think most would agree he was at his best in 2010. At the end of last season he was already starting to drop games to the best players in every matchup much more than in 2010, Jaedong even on a 4 game winstreak against him.
I predict Jaedong to be the top PL player this time. With finally some top quality backup he won't need to be sent out very predictably and prepared for well. If the coaches are good hopefully he can be in a Bisu like situation; trying to catch out other teams with a ZvP. And maybe him and BaBy can both push their TvZ to new heights which is a scary thought.
Edit; also remember in regards to KT this year, there's less 'easy wins' in PL this time. Aside from ACE and prehaps to some extent STX; everyone else is pretty strong this time. You got 3 whole games per round against somewhat weaker teams gone.
This applies to everyone so I don't get that. Hell, KT lost to ace a couple of times.
On November 05 2011 15:02 infinity2k9 wrote:
It sounds like it's staying BO7, in which case that lineup doesn't look particularly strong over the other teams though. They already struggled in regular PL last season, now there's 3 weaker teams out of the question and 1 harder team instead. Even if there is 2 rounds of WL again this year, that's going to be harder in general too. We don't even know how Flash is going to do after surgery at the moment. Last year they were 3rd helped heavily by the WL, this year the competition will be much tighter. I think the new team, with Jaedong and real quality backup has as much potential as KT, at least.
If EffOrt is back to form (it sounds like he never really stopped playing for long), then with the new team arrangements every team except ACE/STX has a player who can give Flash a good challenge in BO1 matches (Jangbi 4-4, Stork 10-9, Jaedong 23-21, ZerO 4-7 (3-1 in PL), BeSt 6-7 (5-4 in PL), EffOrt 6-6, even Calm on STX is 3-3 in PL games). He's now also prehaps the most predictable ace player now JD has a better team, so that makes him the obvious target for one player to solely practice for on 1 map. Both MBC/FOX gone means 2 less teams with no good ace, and 'new Oz' more likely to actually get to ace. Over the whole season that's a big difference.
Stats is better than anyone of Jaedong's supporting cast and a much more viable ace option.
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I have a LOT of problems with this list...
For one, hyvaa retired and I'd definately place ACE
over stx
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Estonia4504 Posts
On November 05 2011 23:45 Taekwon wrote:
For one, hyvaa retired
What?!?
When?
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On November 05 2011 23:58 mustaju wrote:What?!? When?
That's what I reacted too yeah when did hyvaa retired he was doing quite well in proleague and individual league..
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On November 05 2011 23:45 Taekwon wrote:
I have a LOT of problems with this list...
For one, hyvaa retired and I'd definately place ACE
over stx
Are you sure?
Guy next to Bogus in the photo (taken 22nd Oct) looks like Hyvaa to me:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M6teH.jpg)
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Stats definitely underrated. Always loved dat Chintoss.
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Regular Proleague format:
#1: SKT - I think people are forgetting just how dominant SKT was last year. They easily had the best record and I don't see why that would change, unless the protoss QQ is true and the new maps are bad for Protoss.
#2: Kespa - Arguably stronger than SKT on paper. Gonna give SKT the benefit of the doubt but it would not surprise me at all if they dominated right out of the gate. BW is ultimately a 1v1 game and things like team chemistry don't really matter as much as some people think they would.
#3: CJ - I was going to drop them to 4th, but then I remembered Effort was coming back. Effort's upset win over Flash in the OSL has made people forget that Effort wasn't really all that great in proleague in 2010. Nonetheless his return can only mean good things for a CJ team whose zerg line consisted solely of Hydra last year.
#4: KT - It was tough for me choosing between CJ and KT for #3, but I think it will take a few months for Flash to be in form so until then I think 4th is a good spot. The addition of Mind is big and that's what separates KT from Khan and Stars.
#5: Khan - With Jangbi's renaissance and the addition of Roro I could see Khan as high as #3. Unfortunately they're still vulnerable against zergs and not particularly deep.
#6: Woongjin - A solid team with Zero and Light, but they didn't make any huge gains from the BW consolidation and other teams got stronger while Woongjin stayed the same.
#7: STX - Definitely the weakest of the non-Ace teams, and then they lost Kal. Not going to be a good year for STX unless Bogus takes a big step in his development.
#8: ACE - Such a shame. With the addition of Kal and Great this might be the best ACE team ever. Had the BW crisis not happened this team had a legitimate shot at the playoffs. As it is, ACE still has a chance of not getting 8th place, which would still be quite an accomplishment for them.
Winner's League
#1: KT - Flash *should* be back up to 100% by the time Winner's league rolls around and whatever team he plays on will always be the favorite in winner's league format
#2: SKT - The only team with 2 bonafide S-class players
#3: Dream Team - Jaedong, but with backup. Holy shit.
#4: CJ - With all their matchup specialists, CJ are the team best equipped to take down TLS.
#5: Woongjin - Zero and Light are 2 of the best non-S class players, but they themselves can be sniped easily.
#6: Khan - Best players are simply too vulnerable to zerg snipers
#7: STX - Poor STX
#8: ACE - Poor Ace
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On November 05 2011 03:52 Gann1 wrote:
I didn't forget him, I just made a bad joke.
You evil man.
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On November 06 2011 00:25 lynx.oblige wrote:
Stats definitely underrated. Always loved dat Chintoss.
people called stats as a one hit wonder but what do you know .....
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On November 06 2011 00:29 red4ce wrote:
#3: Dream Team - Jaedong, but with backup. Holy shit.
I think Sea is more than a backup player...
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On November 06 2011 00:50 cklrkzk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 00:29 red4ce wrote:
#3: Dream Team - Jaedong, but with backup. Holy shit.
I think Sea is more than a backup player...
Anyone outside TLS is backup when talking about Jaedong.
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All KT needs to do is reach the play-offs and they will win it all again. It doesn't matter how much the "better" teams like SKT, CJ and now this KeSPA team beat them during the regular season. When the games matter the most KT will deliver like always.
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On November 06 2011 01:10 J1.au wrote:
All KT needs to do is reach the play-offs and they will win it all again. It doesn't matter how much the "better" teams like SKT, CJ and now this KeSPA team beat them during the regular season. When the games matter the most KT will deliver like always.
Sometimes I wish KT is much more consistent in their games , So I don't get any heart attack when we are down to 3-1 and we need hoejja,action,crazyhydra, to pull of a win so we can send in flash...... . T_T
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Do we know how many rounds of Winner's League there will be this year? I think this will greatly alter the finishing place of some teams. My predicted rank of funzies is as follows! I will rank for at the end of regular season, finals are too hard to predict
1. SKT - In my highly anti-KT biased opinion, SKT choked horribly last season and should have won the final. The two main SKT zergs failed last minute in their respective best matchups. Two 9-0 rounds last season are evidence of their proleague power.
2. CJ - Imba team is imba. They have a history of choking though so I can't bring myself to put them first. Didn't pick up anyone notable from the disbanded teams, they could maybe use Hiya as backup for Leta?
3. KeSPA - Everyone is saying Jaedong is slumping? He still has undoubtedly the best ZvT in the game. His ZvZ may be suffering slightly but I'd still take him over Hydra or Zero any day. Not only this, both him and Sea no longer have the stress of NEEDING to win for their team to win. I expect Sea in particular to perform haidouken tornados. Killer was starting to get scary, Jaehoon is super solid. Tyson and Baby round out a scary top 6. The worry will be depth, not "chemistry". If someone gets sick or goes into a massive slump there aren't too many options to replace them.
4. KT - As incredible as he is, I feel it is unreasonable to expect Flash to dominate from round 1. He will take some time to get back to his best, mostly due to his inability to practice while he heals. For this reason I think KT will struggle early but win enough games later in the season to make finals. Mind and Wooki are solid pickups.
5. KHAN - Can Jangbi convert his OSL form into proleague consistently? Can Stork concentrate on the game he is paid to play rather than WoW or cell phones? Can Grape, Turn and Reality continue to improve? All these questions remain to be answered. Roro is a huuuuuge pickup.
6. STX - yes above Woongjin. STX have solid players and are actually pretty good. They don't have any real superstars though and I expect them to get owned in Winner's League which will stop them making playoffs.
7. Woongjin - Free sucks now, Light is only good in one matchup, Really is gone, their options are limited even with the recruitment of Shy. Stars are one Zero slump away from sucking harrrrrrrrd. Which makes me sad.
8. ACE - Yes they now have great and Kal. great and Kal were failing horribly last season and with the additional burden of military duty I can't see them making a difference. The terran division of firebathero, Iris and Piano will have to pull out all stops for them to move above 8th.
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@dropbear at the kt section you could at least dwell into Mind a little bit more , he is a solid T v X player and he was suppose to be the next bonjwa and just in case if flash may run in to trouble .I can see Mind being the ace of kt and you may never know he could just turn on his msl mode he had back than and destroy everyone . Stats on the other hand his proleague records wasn't that impressive at all but does that matter ? I remember in a game between Stars and KT in the finals , People were telling Stats is going to get rofl stomp by zero and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
Crazy hydra is still a good zerg player and I still remember that all killed he did before leaving woongjin,my jaw was still left hanging in mid air when the game finish 4-0 by crazy hydra . Still I believe he can improve he just needs time to do get around and be familiar with the team . Action on the other hand he's getting better already and I can see his mid game into late game transition is much more solid compared to his previous games he plays . I still loathe at action for going straight to hive tech without building any lurkers despite him having the advantage against sun using his burrowed zerglings to ambush by.sun dragoon.
I can never forgive action for doing that in the finals game it nearly cost us the proleague final , he better start improving ..
Hoejja in my opinion , is still a player which kt has started to rely after him improving on his wins and I hope to see hoejja carry on his confidence from the proleague finals.
As for stats , I am crossing my finger hoping that surgery didn't suck the power out of him T_T. I can't call him Chinboss anymore which is really sad.
Hopefully we will be able to field in wooki and barracks more in games , So KT can give our rookies more experience.I am still in a confusion on how kt will perform these year proleague . I am optimisitic that we will do well and it's time to wear that ktf uniform again and brandish that ktf logo .
Because kt rolster is on a rolled again.
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Fantasy is not S-Class haha. Yeah he won a gold, but then so did Mind. His PL win rates need to get better before people can start calling him that.
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On November 06 2011 01:38 Sawamura wrote:
and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
It's not.
And sure, we're totally shaking in our boots *roll eyes*
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On November 06 2011 02:36 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 01:38 Sawamura wrote:
and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
It's not. And sure, we're totally shaking in our boots *roll eyes*
4-1 and that one win was like in the year 2009 *roll eyes* .
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On November 06 2011 02:42 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 02:36 bearbuddy wrote:On November 06 2011 01:38 Sawamura wrote:
and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
It's not. And sure, we're totally shaking in our boots *roll eyes* 4-1 and that one win was like in the year 2009 *roll eyes* .
So, you admitted to making shit up. Good job.
I was also rolling my eyes at the condescending part.
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On November 06 2011 02:43 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 02:42 Sawamura wrote:On November 06 2011 02:36 bearbuddy wrote:On November 06 2011 01:38 Sawamura wrote:
and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
It's not. And sure, we're totally shaking in our boots *roll eyes* 4-1 and that one win was like in the year 2009 *roll eyes* . So, you admitted to making shit up. Good job. I was also rolling my eyes at the condescending part.
Making shit up ? Lols I knew stats had a good record and when people in the live report were going bonkers I imagine he had a score of 6-0 and what do you know I am wrong ? so Slash life ?
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On November 06 2011 02:49 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 02:43 bearbuddy wrote:On November 06 2011 02:42 Sawamura wrote:On November 06 2011 02:36 bearbuddy wrote:On November 06 2011 01:38 Sawamura wrote:
and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
It's not. And sure, we're totally shaking in our boots *roll eyes* 4-1 and that one win was like in the year 2009 *roll eyes* . So, you admitted to making shit up. Good job. I was also rolling my eyes at the condescending part. Making shit up ? Lols I knew stats had a good record and when people in the live report were going bonkers I imagine he had a score of 6-0 and what do you know I am wrong ? so Slash life ?
It takes like 3 seconds to check up on TLPD. Is it so hard? You could have just said that Stats has a good record against Zero. I'm disputing a statistic (pun intended), and responding as a Star fan that was not shaking in my boots. So on both account, you're wrong, and I'm rolling my eyes.
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On November 06 2011 02:53 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 02:49 Sawamura wrote:On November 06 2011 02:43 bearbuddy wrote:On November 06 2011 02:42 Sawamura wrote:On November 06 2011 02:36 bearbuddy wrote:On November 06 2011 01:38 Sawamura wrote:
and what do you know Stats record against zero is 6-0 and all the stars fans were shaking in their boots .
It's not. And sure, we're totally shaking in our boots *roll eyes* 4-1 and that one win was like in the year 2009 *roll eyes* . So, you admitted to making shit up. Good job. I was also rolling my eyes at the condescending part. Making shit up ? Lols I knew stats had a good record and when people in the live report were going bonkers I imagine he had a score of 6-0 and what do you know I am wrong ? so Slash life ? It takes like 3 seconds to check up on TLPD. Is it so hard? You could have just said that Stats has a good record against Zero. I'm disputing a statistic (pun intended), and responding as a Star fan that was not shaking in my boots. So on both account, you're wrong, and I'm rolling my eyes.
Still doesn't change the fact that Stats > Zero in PvZ . Rolling eyes or drums whatever.
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Stats is not better than ZerO in PvZ despite what the head to head record is; sometimes things are just weird like that. ZerO doesn't live up to his best in the matchup sometimes, but when he does it's very very impressive. Stats is obviously good in the matchup and better than most but still i wouldn't bet on him in a series against ZerO.
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Kal on Ace is exciting.
Looking forward to some awesome KvZs.
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On November 06 2011 03:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
Stats is not better than ZerO in PvZ despite what the head to head record is; sometimes things are just weird like that. ZerO doesn't live up to his best in the matchup sometimes, but when he does it's very very impressive. Stats is obviously good in the matchup and better than most but still i wouldn't bet on him in a series against ZerO.
At his best, Magma is the greatest player who ever played the game.
Stats was a more valuable player last season than Zero. I'm sure many people would take Zero over Stats first if they were drafting a team from scratch, but that's probably mostly due to starleague success. When talking Proleague it's hard to argue Zero is much better than Stats, if at all.
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I don't know, personally i would still take Zero over Stats.
From my perspective, Zero's moments of brilliance are better than those of Stats', and his solid-average game are better as well. All in all i just see him as having both better mechanics and flair.. Maybe that's just me being unable to forget Stat's slump (or at least a period of poor performance) just before the end of playoff last season, but ....
Plus, there's that little KT hate burning quietly, when we should have bagged last season but dumb Zergs screwed up T_T (BeSt screwed up too, but it happened often to people who face Flash, so its easier to forgive him)..
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I was going to write my own but OP sums up my thoughts except for:
CJ over Dream Team:
Dream team has little depth, CJ has tons of it. You forgot Where and BBYong in your preview, both have shown enough potential last year to be A-teamers this year, while the Dream Team line up will most likely depend entirely on how well JD/Baby/Sea do, a little like CJ a few years ago when they only had Effort/Movie/Skyhigh and if two slumped at once, yet alone three (WL 2010) it was GG for CJ. Dream Team is better on paper, but they'll need incredibly consistent play to finish #2.
Also keep in mind that CJ has more practice partners and better team chemistry. Small advantages, yes, but they'll help.
STX at 5th.
This is pretty bold after the STX coach put all of his players up for trade. While the protoss and zerg lineups look grim for STX, their terran lineup looks surprisingly decent with Bogus, Classic, and Last (all underrated). If STX's coach gets some good mirror match snipes with Shuttle and Modesty, STX should beat the lower half of the league quite easily in Bo7s. The real trick is winner's league. My STX at 5th prediction relies on Bogus, Classic, or Last stepping up and becoming an ace (like Hydra in CJ last year) or STX pulling off a good trade.
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On November 06 2011 07:51 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 03:47 infinity2k9 wrote:
Stats is not better than ZerO in PvZ despite what the head to head record is; sometimes things are just weird like that. ZerO doesn't live up to his best in the matchup sometimes, but when he does it's very very impressive. Stats is obviously good in the matchup and better than most but still i wouldn't bet on him in a series against ZerO. At his best, Magma is the greatest player who ever played the game. Stats was a more valuable player last season than Zero. I'm sure many people would take Zero over Stats first if they were drafting a team from scratch, but that's probably mostly due to starleague success. When talking Proleague it's hard to argue Zero is much better than Stats, if at all.
You're making it sound like i'm just going by my opinion, when he's 60% compared to 53% in the matchup we were talking about. Not only that he's got a better winrate in PL too for 10-11. He was shaky early on but he was very very good in the last few rounds, especially the convincing wins over Bisu and Flash. I feel like he might improve further too.
Stats in the other hand, he obviously had a fantastic winners league yes (protoss did in general for some reason?). But he's not the first guy to go on a surprising and not-repeated WL streak. He's solid but i'm not sure he's shown anything more than that yet.
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Why is Woongjin so underrated? Zero, Light, Soulkey? That's a beastly trifecta more that capable of standing their own against another big 3. Shy was amazing in the Dream League and was looking better every game in Proleague. Free is free, and if he gets back to form you get a top 10 Protoss with decent PvZ (such a rarity these days). Guemchi is re-adjusting but should be a solid 40% Protoss during normal Proleague, and a beastly all-killer during Winner's League. Hon_Sin will only improve with Light as Captain.
Their only true weakness this season has been the loss of Really (who was under performing quite a bit). They may not be as star-studded as SKT/KT/CJ/KeSPA but I'm pretty sure they'll contend for a playoff spot. And I do believe Zero is now a legitimate ace and perennial Starleague semifinalist.
(Oh, and SKT will be the champion this year. I feel it in my guts. They'll set the best record for an auto-spot in the finals, then KeSPA or CJ will eliminate KT, paving the way for SKT's triumphant win in the ace match with Bisu > Jaedong/Effort/Hydra)
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9070 Posts
dont know what gives ppl hopes effort will be a factor, he was never good to begin with
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Anyone know when Proleague starts this yr?
Previously it started october-ish according to TLPD, but this yr u got all these Kespa issues and sc2 blah blah..so anyone got some idea when we get some BW action?
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United States10328 Posts
On November 06 2011 11:21 disciple wrote:
dont know what gives ppl hopes effort will be a factor, he was never good to begin with
he did win an OSL, unlike someone else who (despite being really good) hasn't.
I think CJ is looking scariest... even if EffOrt begins the season as second fiddle to Hydra, he's only gonna get better as he plays more. I hope the Dream Team gets some practice partners too.
Also ACE ACE ACE ACE won't get last... you just wait.
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On November 06 2011 11:51 ]343[ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 11:21 disciple wrote:
dont know what gives ppl hopes effort will be a factor, he was never good to begin with he did win an OSL, unlike someone else who (despite being really good) hasn't. I think CJ is looking scariest... even if EffOrt begins the season as second fiddle to Hydra, he's only gonna get better as he plays more. I hope the Dream Team gets some practice partners too. Also ACE ACE ACE ACE won't get last... you just wait.
Why does that some one sounds like Bisu :D
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#1 Ace
#2 Khan
#3 Dream Team
#4 CJ
#5 STX Soul
#6 Stars
#7 KT
#8 SKT
xD
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On November 06 2011 12:44 RezChi wrote:
#1 Ace
#2 Khan
#3 Dream Team
#4 CJ
#5 STX Soul
#6 Stars
#7 KT
#8 SKT
xD
Samsung khan fan prediction T_T
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On November 06 2011 12:46 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 12:44 RezChi wrote:
#1 Ace
#2 Khan
#3 Dream Team
#4 CJ
#5 STX Soul
#6 Stars
#7 KT
#8 SKT
xD Samsung khan fan prediction T_T
Hey, Ace #1 man. That FBH i hear he gonna win it all this year.
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On November 06 2011 12:47 RezChi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 12:46 Sawamura wrote:On November 06 2011 12:44 RezChi wrote:
#1 Ace
#2 Khan
#3 Dream Team
#4 CJ
#5 STX Soul
#6 Stars
#7 KT
#8 SKT
xD Samsung khan fan prediction T_T Hey, Ace #1 man. That FBH i hear he gonna win it all this year.
Ace cant rely on fbh only they need Kal,Great and GGaemo to stir things up a little if they want that top seat.
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On November 06 2011 12:51 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 12:47 RezChi wrote:On November 06 2011 12:46 Sawamura wrote:On November 06 2011 12:44 RezChi wrote:
#1 Ace
#2 Khan
#3 Dream Team
#4 CJ
#5 STX Soul
#6 Stars
#7 KT
#8 SKT
xD Samsung khan fan prediction T_T Hey, Ace #1 man. That FBH i hear he gonna win it all this year. Ace cant rely on fbh only they need Kal,Great and GGaemo to stir things up a little if they want that top seat.
It's fine, look at KT. Once Flash started rolling over people everything just got dandy.
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So I thought this was a good thread to ask in. The list on the right side is power rank right? Currently being: Bisu, Flash, ZerO, Jaedong... etc. And there is also a SC2 power rank then? I just can't seem to find the arguments of why the players are at that rank. I remember something on TL a month back or something about power rank being moved but since then I haven't seen it at all : (
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On November 07 2011 22:07 Latedi wrote:
So I thought this was a good thread to ask in. The list on the right side is power rank right? Currently being: Bisu, Flash, ZerO, Jaedong... etc. And there is also a SC2 power rank then? I just can't seem to find the arguments of why the players are at that rank. I remember something on TL a month back or something about power rank being moved but since then I haven't seen it at all : (
That's the elo rank. The power rank is under features, at the top.
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On November 07 2011 22:08 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 22:07 Latedi wrote:
So I thought this was a good thread to ask in. The list on the right side is power rank right? Currently being: Bisu, Flash, ZerO, Jaedong... etc. And there is also a SC2 power rank then? I just can't seem to find the arguments of why the players are at that rank. I remember something on TL a month back or something about power rank being moved but since then I haven't seen it at all : ( That's the elo rank. The power rank is under features, at the top.
Yay thanks ^^
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Hive zerg is not dead yet, Ace will whoop asses!
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On November 07 2011 22:08 kuroshiroi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 22:07 Latedi wrote:
So I thought this was a good thread to ask in. The list on the right side is power rank right? Currently being: Bisu, Flash, ZerO, Jaedong... etc. And there is also a SC2 power rank then? I just can't seem to find the arguments of why the players are at that rank. I remember something on TL a month back or something about power rank being moved but since then I haven't seen it at all : ( That's the elo spoilers rank. The power rank is under features, at the top.
fixed
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On November 07 2011 22:32 villageidiot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2011 22:08 kuroshiroi wrote:On November 07 2011 22:07 Latedi wrote:
So I thought this was a good thread to ask in. The list on the right side is power rank right? Currently being: Bisu, Flash, ZerO, Jaedong... etc. And there is also a SC2 power rank then? I just can't seem to find the arguments of why the players are at that rank. I remember something on TL a month back or something about power rank being moved but since then I haven't seen it at all : ( That's the elo spoilers rank. The power rank is under features, at the top. fixed
You can disable it... Don't be silly.
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On November 06 2011 00:41 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2011 00:25 lynx.oblige wrote:
Stats definitely underrated. Always loved dat Chintoss. people called stats as a one hit wonder but what do you know .....
People love to forget that he had the 4th most wins in PL last year :p
I am also highly amused by how people forget how good stats and hoejja looked, in my eyes stats / hoejja / flash / mind > bisu, fantasy, rain, soo.
Maybe I am biased, but people heavily underrated consecutive champions.. not that I think it's gonna happen again though that'd be unrealistic.. but it would be hella fun
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On November 06 2011 12:44 RezChi wrote:
#1 Stars
#2 Ace
#3 Dream Team
#4 CJ
#5 STX Soul
#6 Khan
#7 KT
#8 SKT
xD
that would save Esports, fixed
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My predictions for the regular season:
1. KT Rolster
2. CJ Entus
3. SK Telecom
4. KeSPA Team
5. Samsung Khan
6. Airforce ACE
7. STX Soul
8. Woongjin Stars
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My prediction:
1. SKT T1 (Fantasy will be the guy pulling the wagon this year IMO)
2. KT Rolster (Winners' League will once again make them chase SKT for top position)
3. KeSPA Team (They're hungry, and the line-up is deep. IF Jaedong gets out of his rut, he'll contribute a LOT of clutch wins)
4. CJ Entus (EffOrt might be a big returnee, but he'll most likely under-perform early in the season.
5. Samsung KHAN (Jangbi's return to form is good, and so is the RorO acquisition. They still have a weak T-line though)
6. Woongjin Stars (ZerO, Light and SoulKey won't be enough, they don't have a proper Protoss to field to shake matches)
7. Airforce ACE (FBH, Kal and Great as their main players? This is one solid conglomerate if you ask me.)
8. STX Soul (No Kal, a Calm/Clam in play and an under-utilized Shuttle? This team is Bogus)
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On November 06 2011 10:48 Caladbolg wrote:
Why is Woongjin so underrated? Zero, Light, Soulkey? That's a beastly trifecta more that capable of standing their own against another big 3. Shy was amazing in the Dream League and was looking better every game in Proleague. Free is free, and if he gets back to form you get a top 10 Protoss with decent PvZ (such a rarity these days). Guemchi is re-adjusting but should be a solid 40% Protoss during normal Proleague, and a beastly all-killer during Winner's League. Hon_Sin will only improve with Light as Captain.
Their only true weakness this season has been the loss of Really (who was under performing quite a bit). They may not be as star-studded as SKT/KT/CJ/KeSPA but I'm pretty sure they'll contend for a playoff spot. And I do believe Zero is now a legitimate ace and perennial Starleague semifinalist.
(Oh, and SKT will be the champion this year. I feel it in my guts. They'll set the best record for an auto-spot in the finals, then KeSPA or CJ will eliminate KT, paving the way for SKT's triumphant win in the ace match with Bisu > Jaedong/Effort/Hydra)
The problem with Woonjin is that either their big three take the series or they lose. Free was so bad last season it was painful. None of their rookies show any promise. Their second stringers are worse than other teams' second stringers.
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On November 09 2011 15:00 domane wrote:
My predictions for the regular season:
1. KT Rolster
2. CJ Entus
3. SK Telecom
4. KeSPA Team
5. Samsung Khan
6. Airforce ACE
7. STX Soul
8. Woongjin Stars
i was typing out my own, but then i saw yours. this is about right.
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1. KT
2. KESPA
3. SKT
4. CJ
Right now it looks like KT > SKT > KESPA > KT. I put KT on top because I trust Flash against Jaedong more than I trust Jaedong against Bisu, and KESPA looks a lot more deep than SKT, so they will probably be the second contender. On the other hand, SKT proved last season that they could breeze through the games by relying on just Bisu and Fantasy, so that might work this season too. SKT have the strongest top 2 players for sure.
CJ is the underdog. They lack TaekLeeSsang power, and I would also say that KESPA have more depth, so they are not as strong as people think. Hydra or Effort needs to step up if they want to be a contender.
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On November 09 2011 22:46 ninini wrote:
1. KT
2. KESPA
3. SKT
4. CJ
Right now it looks like KT > SKT > KESPA > KT. I put KT on top because I trust Flash against Jaedong more than I trust Jaedong against Bisu, and KESPA looks a lot more deep than SKT, so they will probably be the second contender. On the other hand, SKT proved last season that they could breeze through the games by relying on just Bisu and Fantasy, so that might work this season too. SKT have the strongest top 2 players for sure.
CJ is the underdog. They lack TaekLeeSsang power, and I would also say that KESPA have more depth, so they are not as strong as people think. Hydra or Effort needs to step up if they want to be a contender.
how does kespa > kt?
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On November 10 2011 01:20 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 22:46 ninini wrote:
1. KT
2. KESPA
3. SKT
4. CJ
Right now it looks like KT > SKT > KESPA > KT. I put KT on top because I trust Flash against Jaedong more than I trust Jaedong against Bisu, and KESPA looks a lot more deep than SKT, so they will probably be the second contender. On the other hand, SKT proved last season that they could breeze through the games by relying on just Bisu and Fantasy, so that might work this season too. SKT have the strongest top 2 players for sure.
CJ is the underdog. They lack TaekLeeSsang power, and I would also say that KESPA have more depth, so they are not as strong as people think. Hydra or Effort needs to step up if they want to be a contender. how does kespa > kt?
Because Jaedong >= Flash. KESPA also have better depth. The reason why I favor KT overall is because Flash is much more reliable overall, and because they look stronger against SKT.
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EFFORT
:D:D:D:D:D
GL to everyone in the Proleague~
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EDIT: My take on the reliability of the lineup of each team.
6+
CJ - Hydra (1), Horang2 (1), Movie (1), Snow (1), Effort (1), Leta/Bbyong/Skyhigh (1+)
KeSPA - Jaedong (1+), Sea (1), Jaehoon (1), Killer (1), Baby (1), Tyson (1)
5+
KT - Flash (1+), Stats (1), Mind/Barracks (1), Hoejja/Action/Crazy-Hydra (2)
SKT1 - Bisu (1+), Fantasy (1), Best (1), S2 (1) n.die_soo (1)
4
Khan - Jangbi (1), Stork (1), Roro (1), Grape (1), Turn/Reality (1)
Stars - Light (1), Zero (1), Soulkey (1), Free/Flying/Guemchi/SHy (1)
3+
ACE - ggaemo/Peace (1), FBH/Iris/PianO (1+), Kal/Much/M18M (1),
STX - Bogus (1), Calm/hero/hyvaa/Modesty (1+), Shuttle/Trap (1)
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EPT
