In a phone call with Daily e-Sports on the 20th, STX SouL's manager Kim revealed the team's intention to put their entire roster, the A Teamers to the B Teamers, up for trade in the market and take an aggressive stance in replacing their players.
Manager Kim said that the issue was already settled with their sponsored company, STX. Every player, from the aces to the practice partners, are up for trade. They will be initially pushing for a player for player trade. STX will be negotiating trades with various teams until August 10th. They are already negotiating with other teams for trades.
Any players who do not get traded will be recontracted to STX.
Manager Kim noted that "A massive number of player trades, something never seen in e-Sports could happen, or this attempt to bring in a new team could also fail. But we all believe that we need to change like this in order for STX SouL to live."
Lol if this was true it'd be really funny to see classic and hyvaa go to another team again. "Why can't we stay on the same team for more than a year D: "
In all seriousness, this season has made Bogus the most valuable player to sell, while Calm and Kal went down in value. Oz should buy a decent protoss (KAL) while he's still such a low price and then hope Kal gets in his GOOJILLA mode next season.
On July 20 2011 11:06 Ryusei-R1 wrote: In all seriousness, this season has made Bogus the most valuable player to sell, while Calm and Kal went down in value. Oz should buy a decent protoss (KAL) while he's still such a low price and then hope Kal gets in his GOOJILLA mode next season.
We can hope, but then again, having Jaedong AND Kal on the same team, and considering the number of leagues Jaedong has knocked Kal out of ....
So you get to PL playoffs, barely lose to KT who is still in, and you want to scrap your entire team?
I don't expect many of the players to actually be traded, but this can't be good on the player/coach relationships. And why are the players only being punished? Surely part of the blame has to fall on the coaches.
fuck. I know stx hasn't been too top tier in recent seasons but they still had a (relatively) solid enough lineup in bogus/kal/clam/yoonjoong/modesty. And throw in classic if you want.
On July 20 2011 11:08 Antoine wrote: why are people saying 1 less team? it's up for trade, not up for sale. it's not like Last year with teams disbanding
Quoted for clarity. STX is not disbanding, the players are simply going to be up for trade. This is how I interpret it.
In a phone call with Daily e-Sports on the 20th, STX SouL's manager Kim revealed the team's intention to put their entire roster, the A Teamers to the B Teamers, up for trade in the market and take an aggressive stance in replacing their players.
Manager Kim said that the issue was already settled with their sponsored company, STX. Every player, from the aces to the practice partners, are up for trade. They will be initially pushing for a player for player trade, and then move over to a cash trade in order to reform their player market. STX will be negotiating trades with various teams until August 10th. They are already negotiating with other teams for trades.
Any players who do not get traded will be recontracted to STX.
Manager Kim noted that "A massive number of player trades, something never seen in e-Sports could happen, or this attempt to bring in a new team could also fail. But we all believe that we need to change like this in order for STX SouL to live."
Pretty self-explanatory. STX wants to blow the team up and start from scratch again. Glad they finally wanted to stop under-performing, although I would honestly have made Bogus untouchable. There's no guarantee they'll get a decent ace otherwise.
It's probably going to take big money to get Bogus, I feel like he's going to be the core that they want to build around. It'd be foolish to not keep some kind of familiar "face" for the franchise there.
They're probably looking to offload players like Kal and Calm who I'd guess have larger contracts and aren't really performing at the level they once were, and are going to be gunning for younger players I'd guess who they can build a team to last multiple seasons for them.
There are a few teams that might be interested, but it wouldn't shock me to see minimal movement.
Wonder who STX wants from the other teams, come to think of it. We know that they're probably not gonna get any of TBLS, Fantasy, Hydra, or ZerO, but any other player is possible.
This is somewhat understandable since their lineup is definitely good enough to barely get them to the playoff but not enough to win them the champion. I would rather they fire their head coach and their whole management team then to trade the whole lineup.
On July 20 2011 11:18 Zyferous wrote: Oz should pick up clam actually. Jaedong will finally have a competent zerg practice partner to improve his ZvZ to old times!
The funny thing is, this is actually pretty common in sports. Teams will be in what they perceive as an underachieving rut for a very long time and realize they've got a lot of veterans who are worth something to other teams. STX has that in Kal and Calm and might be looking for the next big thing to bring over to their team to back up Bogus.
The thing is, when management does this, usually the coach is out the door first.
On July 20 2011 11:31 white_horse wrote: this could either be the greatest move by STX to refresh the lineups of all teams or it could end up being the most terrible decision of all time
It's not as if this year was a success relative to their talent. You gotta do what you gotta do to win, I suppose.
I feel the same way when the Lakers lost to the Pistons in 04 and the team just got blown up hahaha
TBH I think this is great (for any non-STX fans at least...)
Only Bogus is really doing well on STX lately, with Calm in perpetual mediocrity and Kal seemingly unable to beat anyone good this year (except Bisu but lol its bisu).
The teams will (hopefully) get swapped around and some of the weaker teams will get some new energy whereas STX will be able to start from scratch. I think the mental thing is another; STX could become a "new" team and shed what seems like perpetual underachievement.
I hope theres as many trades as STX is hoping for. Hopefully we can see a shake up for next season. Also a change of scenery might bring Kal and Calm back to there former selfs. Particularly Kal... I remember he was a bad ass who couldn't win only cuz he kept meeting JD in SLs
My jaw dropped when I read the title. STX morale must be at an all time low after they found out about this. Very drastic move by the management. It'll be funny if nothing came of this and no one was traded. But I'm very interested in seeing trades
Wait, so they're not getting rid of the team, but selling all of their players? So they're restructuring the team, but have no real hope of getting better players/talent... LOL?
On July 20 2011 11:45 Elefanto wrote: At first i thought STX disbands, luckily not.
I guess KT is already counting their money for Bogus.
Not sure but I think its trading players for players rather then selling players for money, not sure though. Noone on KT except for Flash is worth Bogus.(Non intentional pun).
Well atleast I must say, they got balls.
Also Mustaju is going to get a heartattack when he wakes up 2day O.o.
Why all the love for Bogus? He's not a bad player of course, he won most of his last 10 games but if you go just a little bit deeper on his record list it's not that impressive imo.
On July 20 2011 11:49 gds wrote: Why all the love for Bogus? He's not a bad player of course, he won most of his last 10 games but if you go just a little bit deeper on his record list it's not that impressive imo.
hes a rookie,obviously if you see his earlier stats it would be bad,but hes stepped up a lot this season.
On July 20 2011 11:52 Jindo wrote: Hmm I wonder how Mustaju will react once he see this thread.
Wow what the heck? Trading players to bring in some new blood and change things up is probably a good idea, but putting the entire team on the trading block is a terrible move. First of all when a team has a fire-sale, the other teams will sense the desperation and STX will only get lowball offers. Secondly what about the fans? I know STX doesn't have that many but a team with no fans has no reason for existing. Yes fans want their team to win, but fans support their team because of the emotional attachment they form with their favorite players over time. If STX brings in a completely new roster I fear their fans will simply leave and start cheering for whichever team their favorite player goes to.
TBH I can't imagine any notable players get traded around between teams. It would be terrible for the team atmosphere just like when MBC lost Light to Woongjin.
On July 20 2011 11:52 Milkis wrote: Another source claims that STX is not considering cash trades. Fun. Removed that line from OP.
Now things are getting REALLY interesting.
Well, i guess STX won't be able to player-trade effectively in order to become a better team. I mean they have 3 potential trades, Kal, Calm and Bogus. Kal and Calm slumping hard, Bogus showing real promise.
I can't imagine a team risking trading for Kal / Calm.
There are a lot of people who are saying this will be player for player, but has there ever been a player for player trade? Considering the history, I'm not sure the article is specific enough to lead to that conclusion.
Regardless of which type, when do we start hearing more news abut this? With the trades be pre or post STX cup?
They are putting up their entire team for trade? This makes no sense, who would trade better players for STX players or the other way around... Very poor decision making. (They should just try to get more B teamers and give them opportunities)
Well, this could mess stuff up, but before we know everything, I'll just be excited. Shake BW up a little, eh? My prediction, though, is that when all is said and done, not much will have changed.
Wow, and tbh I'm prefectly happy with the shape SKT is in right now, but I'd welcome shuttle and tossgirl if anybody. However Kal would get better with the SKT toss coaches. Also, Calm vs Fanta rivalry needs to stay.
Honestly imo, I think some people value Calm a lot more than he is worth. I mean I took a look at his stats and I watched a couple of games, and judging by the quality of the few people he has beaten and the quality of the games he played let alone won, I sure as hell wouldn't want him on my favorite team unless he was traded for absolute scrubs like Juni.
Bogus and Shuttle should be the top picks.
But at the end of the day, all I can see is STX being worse off. No one is gonna trade them a performer for one of STX's failures and they def. won't give anyone worth more than Bogus for Bogus.
On July 20 2011 11:09 setzer wrote: So you get to PL playoffs, barely lose to KT who is still in, and you want to scrap your entire team?
I don't expect many of the players to actually be traded, but this can't be good on the player/coach relationships. And why are the players only being punished? Surely part of the blame has to fall on the coaches.
Was probably planned long ago by management. Whether the players knew or not is up to speculation, but I'd say they knew and were consulted about it.
Still, with the high-handed decision making that embodies these Korean mega-companies, it may be that the players were caught with their pants down.
In the end, this should be good for STX. It will at least send a message to its players - buck up or fuck off (because seriously speaking, STX's former top players have become quite mediocre)
On July 20 2011 11:52 Milkis wrote: Another source claims that STX is not considering cash trades. Fun. Removed that line from OP.
Now things are getting REALLY interesting.
Well, i guess STX won't be able to player-trade effectively in order to become a better team. I mean they have 3 potential trades, Kal, Calm and Bogus. Kal and Calm slumping hard, Bogus showing real promise.
I can't imagine a team risking trading for Kal / Calm.
I could see Woongjin taking a gamble on Kal. Their Protoss line is their weak spot right now. I could see Oz maybe showing interest as well. Protoss is hit or miss with them, I don't think Anytime has much left in the tank, and the rest of their lineup is still tbd. Bringing in a veteran presence can foster some growth there and he still has a chance of returning to form at some point/being a valuable role player.
MBC might give some initial offers for Calm, see what it's going to take - they'd be foolish not to. Khan will definitely make an offer, I'd bet big money on that.
FOX could make offers on either and potentially get an upgrade.
CJ's set in those departments, really (especially with EffOrt coming back soon). KT could try and pick one or the other up, but they seem committed to developing Stats/Action and don't have much to bring to the table. T1 should probably sit pat on those two.
While both are slumping, both have also showed some extremely high level play. Not for nothing, but STX at one point had 3 viable aces (pre-Hwasin being a scumbag) who were all high A-class players. These guys are both still capable of getting back to form, they just might need a Midas-type situation, where a change of scenery does them a world of good. It remains to be seen as to what the teams can swing here in terms of trades.
Hmmm so does trading only mean exchanging a player for another player not selling players off? I assume contracts and payment might change, but I don't remember any actual trades taking place, people just moved to another team there was never an exchange of players so it seems to me they actually mean sell. I can't read Korean and I don't understand the language, it just seems to me it's one of those situations where it translates to trade as it's the closest English word but it doesn't mean a player for player trade.
As for speculating SKT1 and KT are the most likely to trade players given their history and monetary backing. Scared for Calm if he gets traded to SKT1.
On July 20 2011 12:33 BlackMagister wrote: Hmmm so does trading only mean exchanging a player for another player not selling players off? I assume contracts and payment might change, but I don't remember any actual trades taking place, people just moved to another team there was never an exchange of players so it seems to me they actually mean sell.
That's why the article says that it could be something totally new for e-sports. The article makes it pretty clear that players are going to be traded and not just sold.
I can see Oz and Wemade pushing for some player trades, maybe MBC and Samsung for a decent Zerg, and possibly KT (probably not though). The rest are fine and probably won't pursue any trades, unless its for a talented B-teamer
On July 20 2011 11:45 Elefanto wrote: At first i thought STX disbands, luckily not.
I guess KT is already counting their money for Bogus.
Not sure but I think its trading players for players rather then selling players for money, not sure though. Noone on KT except for Flash is worth Bogus.(Non intentional pun).
Well atleast I must say, they got balls.
Also Mustaju is going to get a heartattack when he wakes up 2day O.o.
err... stats is worth at least something right? but then we'd have no toss lineup. heres the problem with KT, we always use flash twice in PL, if we can get to ace. we have ONE toss in stats, and 2 terran, flash and barracks. we have a crap ton of zergs, but they aren't they good, so teams will get rid of "flash" maps. we need a more of a mix. trade someone for tossgirl, then force tossgirl to show her true identity (main is toss) and proceed to bitch slap everyone across the face
Idiotic move by STX. Their players are fine. What STX needs is a change of atmosphere.
SKT has a high-achieving atmosphere, great coaching, and 3 pillars to rely on. KT overflows with confidence because they're all inspired by Flash. When he went god mode, KT went god mode. CJ has a culture of fearless rookies and discipline with camaraderie, and some amazing coaches to make the players shine.
STX has a continually depressed coach/manager dude, embarrassing uniforms, and a lot of fried chicken --- and now they're sending the message out to all their players, "YOU'RE DISPENSABLE." Great morale booster.
What STX actually needs is some wicked new badass uniforms, a new coach/manager dude who inspires the players instead of depressing them, a vacation, and then about 6 months of rookie development in proleague.
I feel sorry for any progamer who gets traded to STX in the shape they're in. And I feel sorry for any progamer who gets traded away from STX, because that tells them the message that THEY were responsible for STX sucking and that STX was better off without them. All in all this is just a rotten deal.
On July 20 2011 12:33 BlackMagister wrote: Hmmm so does trading only mean exchanging a player for another player not selling players off? I assume contracts and payment might change, but I don't remember any actual trades taking place, people just moved to another team there was never an exchange of players so it seems to me they actually mean sell.
That's why the article says that it could be something totally new for e-sports. The article makes it pretty clear that players are going to be traded and not just sold.
Ah yes didn't read carefully enough. Player for player trades should be difficult though since it requires another person to want to leave to work. Can't see into the team environment so wouldn't understand why a player would want to trade. There was speculation about ForGG wanting to leave because of problems with the coach, but that was just rumors. Luxury leaving Sparkyz made sense to distance himself from his twin Yarnc. Light leaving MBC made no sense especially given the way Sea talked about how important Light was for training.
So I'm not sure why a player would want to join STX given their middling run in PL expect not getting along with teammates.
On July 20 2011 12:40 Djabanete wrote: Idiotic move by STX. Their players are fine. What STX needs is a change of atmosphere.
SKT has a high-achieving atmosphere, great coaching, and 3 pillars to rely on. KT overflows with confidence because they're all inspired by Flash. When he went god mode, KT went god mode. CJ has a culture of fearless rookies and discipline with camaraderie, and some amazing coaches to make the players shine.
STX has a continually depressed coach/manager dude, embarrassing uniforms, and a lot of fried chicken --- and now they're sending the message out to all their players, "YOU'RE DISPENSABLE." Great morale booster.
What STX actually needs is some wicked new badass uniforms, a new coach/manager dude who inspires the players instead of depressing them, a vacation, and then about 6 months of rookie development in proleague.
I feel sorry for any progamer who gets traded to STX in the shape they're in. And I feel sorry for any progamer who gets traded away from STX, because that tells them the message that THEY were responsible for STX sucking and that STX was better off without them. All in all this is just a rotten deal.
On July 20 2011 12:33 BlackMagister wrote: Hmmm so does trading only mean exchanging a player for another player not selling players off? I assume contracts and payment might change, but I don't remember any actual trades taking place, people just moved to another team there was never an exchange of players so it seems to me they actually mean sell.
That's why the article says that it could be something totally new for e-sports. The article makes it pretty clear that players are going to be traded and not just sold.
Ah yes didn't read carefully enough. Player for player trades should be difficult though since it requires another person to want to leave to work. Can't see into the team environment so wouldn't understand why a player would want to trade. There was speculation about ForGG wanting to leave because of problems with the coach, but that was just rumors. Luxury leaving Sparkyz made sense to distance himself from his twin Yarnc. Light leaving MBC made no sense especially given the way Sea talked about how important Light was for training.
So I'm not sure why a player would want to join STX given their middling run in PL expect not getting along with teammates.
I don't think players get a say in this, if management strikes a deal the players will move won't they?
On July 20 2011 12:33 BlackMagister wrote: Hmmm so does trading only mean exchanging a player for another player not selling players off? I assume contracts and payment might change, but I don't remember any actual trades taking place, people just moved to another team there was never an exchange of players so it seems to me they actually mean sell.
That's why the article says that it could be something totally new for e-sports. The article makes it pretty clear that players are going to be traded and not just sold.
Ah yes didn't read carefully enough. Player for player trades should be difficult though since it requires another person to want to leave to work. Can't see into the team environment so wouldn't understand why a player would want to trade. There was speculation about ForGG wanting to leave because of problems with the coach, but that was just rumors. Luxury leaving Sparkyz made sense to distance himself from his twin Yarnc. Light leaving MBC made no sense especially given the way Sea talked about how important Light was for training.
Light to Stars is very easy to understand. MBC needed money. There's a reason why they are able to keep the MSL going even without a sponsor yet.
The STX management has been responsible for some surprising decisions in the past but this one is quite shocking.
On July 20 2011 12:40 Djabanete wrote: Idiotic move by STX. Their players are fine. What STX needs is a change of atmosphere.
SKT has a high-achieving atmosphere, great coaching, and 3 pillars to rely on. KT overflows with confidence because they're all inspired by Flash. When he went god mode, KT went god mode. CJ has a culture of fearless rookies and discipline with camaraderie, and some amazing coaches to make the players shine.
STX has a continually depressed coach/manager dude, embarrassing uniforms, and a lot of fried chicken --- and now they're sending the message out to all their players, "YOU'RE DISPENSABLE." Great morale booster.
What STX actually needs is some wicked new badass uniforms, a new coach/manager dude who inspires the players instead of depressing them, a vacation, and then about 6 months of rookie development in proleague.
I feel sorry for any progamer who gets traded to STX in the shape they're in. And I feel sorry for any progamer who gets traded away from STX, because that tells them the message that THEY were responsible for STX sucking and that STX was better off without them. All in all this is just a rotten deal.
I would love to see Kal get to mingle with the likes of SKTosses or CJ Tosses. He'd get some much needed coaching and re-training and bring back into full blown Bro-Toss mode.
Calm should go to Oz or get swapped to KT. He is a very good player, he just needs the right place.
Shuttle...man...I could see him going where Kal goes and the two of them eventually fronting a great Protoss lineup for a team. Maybe Woongin can pick him up.
Bogus has been on fire this season and getting rid of him is borderline crazy. In fact, this whole news seems crazy to me.
This is a cool aggressive move, and I honestly think its a good one. Losing bogus will hurt them pretty bad tho. Jangbi, Best, Sea (since MBC game has no desire to keep any particular player), Soulkey, and Hiya are all good candidates for Bogus. Though if STX gets a sick trade for Bogus, it might not pay off because players tend to suck pretty hard for the first half a year they are on a new team.
Kal and Calm will probly go for real cheap. I don't know about Calm, but Kal is an awesome player.
Who would want STX though? The guy puts all his players up for trade. The players don't really lose out because they get recontracted either way, but it's a really strange and odd move.
It's really dependent on what kind of players STX is looking for. All new guys? Solid veterans? A mixture of both?
For their sake, I hope it's the latter of the three so that they don't just rely on all sorts of rookies and under-prepared players. They could also easily move Kal and Calm around for rookie+veteran package deals I would imagine.
Surprised that they're selling low and I doubt they'll get good value on any of their players. Bogus is probably their best atm and even then I can't see other teams giving them anyone good.
On July 20 2011 12:58 Torte de Lini wrote: Who would want STX though? The guy puts all his players up for trade. The players don't really lose out because they get recontracted either way, but it's a really strange and odd move.
Pretty sure any team would gladly take Bogus. And if you have faith in Kal he is an amazing player to pick up too.
The players don't really lose out on much except being separated from the team they are comfortable with. This is merely an aggressive approach to restructure the team.
On July 20 2011 13:02 Scarecrow wrote: Surprised that they're selling low and I doubt they'll get good value on any of their players. Bogus is probably their best atm and even then I can't see other teams giving them anyone good.
probably wants to get rid of the high contracts from old players (kal, calm), which they feel are performing poorer than fresh rookies
Bogus or Shuttle would be nice for KT but I don't think they have anyone STX would want (besides Flash). Maybe if STX has completely given up on Kal, KT can trick them into swapping him for Action's "potential."
Professional sport teams do this all the time after a bad season. They just tell everyone that no one is safe and that they're open to all trades. I'm sure they want to change the face of their team after so many years of losing in the playoffs and never making the final, but I don't think they'll be trading Kal or Calm for trash.
I expect them to keep Bogus unless a team offers something they can't refuse. Wouldn't be shocked at all if Calm and Kal are traded for packages including some up-and-coming rookies.
On July 20 2011 13:57 xXFireandIceXx wrote: Man, this is a good chance for SKT to pick up a more steady Terran and perhaps a better zerg. Honestly, Fantasy is just not reliable any more.
Blasphemy oov is gonna work Fantasy out of his slump one way or another.
this has me really nervous. i really dont want these guys to break up
i dunno what ill do if my favorite players go to teams as despicable as STK or KT
on the other hand STX has a lot of players that would improve a lot if they had more PL games but have too much competition (since calm/kal/bogus are always taking up 3 spots). this can be good for players like hyvaa, classic, shuttle, hero, frozen, and last. hell if kal getting traded helps get him out of his slump, i'll be ok that that too.
On July 20 2011 13:52 To55k1D wrote: T1 gets Kal, Calm, and Bugos for a trirace addition! Whuuuut?! EDIT: Tossgirl as well for goodluck
I'd rather see T1 lose some of its good players to STX so that next season can be a bit more balanced.
It makes some sense - if they cant get traded in a favorable way Im assuming the players STX re-contract are not going to be the hottest property or getting the best offers, could see some switching.
nobody is going to get traded due to respect and stuff. but if its happening, that would suck leaving your team that you've been with since forever... And the ones left behind, even worse! not wanted!
On July 20 2011 14:11 Lokian wrote: nobody is going to get traded due to respect and stuff. but if its happening, that would suck leaving your team that you've been with since forever... And the ones left behind, even worse! not wanted!
Technically STX is saying that it doesn't even want a single one of its players already, so...
STX management are a bunch of cowards and idiots. This is a lose/lose situation for them. What kind of message does this send to the players who remain and the new players they acquire?
Do they expect other teams to offer consistent performers for Calm and Kal? Other teams might offer their underperforming veterans like Free and Really at best. What do they gain? Nothing. Bogus may be hot but he is not established and no team will offer anyone established nor a hot newcomer for him. Who are they hoping for? Baby? Soulkey? Snow? Sorry but he is not at their level yet. The most they'll get for Bogus is by.Sun or Reality or Mind.
Instead of blaming their players they should replace their entire coaching staff and rent a new team house to change the atmosphere.
On July 20 2011 14:19 FryktSkyene wrote: I don't even follow Brood war or have before.
But how pissed do you have to be to put an entire roster up for sale?
Imagine you raised your kids to play a specific sport, say Basketball. You spend tons of money on raising them to be the best basketball players ever.
But then you realize that your kids play in a tournament and suck at basketball despite all the money you spent on them. What do you do with your basketball trained kids now?
Lol, this sounds like it could be a joke article... that's crazy, haha. Hoping for some interesting trades to spice up next year's PL season. I can sympathize, though. I imagine it's frustrating to try and run a team that doesn't have a single consistently good player.
On July 20 2011 12:58 gostunv wrote: Lets speculate who might actually get traded (somebody worthwile).
SKT: nobody really, maybe possibly By.sun
would be foolish for any team to trade any of their core players.
Hellz no! Sun IS a core player for SKT, thankyouverymuch. He's been doing very well lately and even won the Rookie of the Year award (FUCK YEAH), so nuh-uh, no way SKT's trading off Sun since like you said, it would be a very foolish decision. Maybe SKT would trade off one of their B-teamers, but I don't see any of the A-teamers getting traded off.
SKT is fine the way they are right now, even with Fantasy currently slumping. The only way I see an SKT A-teamer getting traded off is if Coach Park goes crazy and says, "TWO PERFECT ROUNDS IN PROLEAGUE AND ENDING UP IN FIRST PLACE IS NOT ENOUGH. GOTTA HAVE MORE THAN THAT GUYS, ONE OF YOU HAS TO GO."
On July 20 2011 14:19 FryktSkyene wrote: I don't even follow Brood war or have before.
But how pissed do you have to be to put an entire roster up for sale?
Imagine you raised your kids to play a specific sport, say Basketball. You spend tons of money on raising them to be the best basketball players ever.
But then you realize that your kids play in a tournament and suck at basketball despite all the money you spent on them. What do you do with your basketball trained kids now?
but what if it was your training methods/regime that was ineffective to those kids? Just saying haha
if oz gets ANYTHING i think it will work out really well... but yeah, if they aren't doing cash, this is just some intense trading.... who will leave their old team for some randomly put together new one?!?!?
i wonder how the current stx players feel about this... :O
On July 20 2011 14:40 TheNessman wrote: if oz gets ANYTHING i think it will work out really well... but yeah, if they aren't doing cash, this is just some intense trading.... who will leave their old team for some randomly put together new one?!?!?
i wonder how the current stx players feel about this... :O
Is it just me, or does anyone else thinks the STX players aren't exactly happy about this? This is pretty much one giant fuck you from the manager to the players. Coupled with the "no players on the bench" incident last year, and STX is pretty much my least favorite team at this point
On July 20 2011 14:42 ndralcasid wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else thinks the STX players aren't exactly happy about this? This is pretty much one giant fuck you from the manager to the players. Coupled with the "no players on the bench" incident last year, and STX is pretty much my least favorite team at this point
actually, what's ironic is that (as mentioned by someone earlier), in other sports, the coach is usually the one given the sack, but stx have so much faith on kim eun-dong (cause he's been at the team since its creation) that they'd rather trade the team than to let him go, lol.
On July 20 2011 14:44 dacthehork wrote: honestly this is a great chance for prospective foreign teams (FXOpen korea) to pick up some really talented players.
On July 20 2011 14:36 StutteR wrote: You're shitting me. Sorry to all the STX fans. I feel sorry for all the players but the management is ridiculous.
Truthfully, STX has always had a great lineup but underperforming players
A great lineup of underperforming players is exactly what should attract trades. Players who have abundant untapped potential that other dynasties think they can train.
I really hope things don't go south, but there are a lot of guys who I see being attractive. Modesty and Classic, Hyvaa, Shuttle... Those are all players who could really fill holes in other teams. The fact that our aces aren't performing that well might hurt whoever we get for them.
It just doesn't make any sense from a fan perspective. I like the team because of its players. I'm not going to follow our dorky coach to the ends of the earth with whichever pokemon he decides to take with him. TT
but seriously, i never really liked stx. every time i place any hope in any of their players (calm, kal, hero, bogus, etc) they end up being a huge disappointment. they have always been thought of to have a deep line up, but in the end they are just a bunch of mediocre players. i'm hoping this move will be good for the league as a whole as changeups don't happen that frequently (which is not quite true of the recent year, though).
On July 20 2011 14:44 dacthehork wrote: honestly this is a great chance for prospective foreign teams (FXOpen korea) to pick up some really talented players.
What the... The wha... Wha?
Anyways, on topic!
I dont think that much will be accomplished through this, unless STX settle for money I cant see any major players switching teams. Only hope is Bogus because he is still a bit of a gamble for STX if he´s gonna be as amazing as he´s looking.
On July 20 2011 14:51 EricCartman wrote: all of the released players should move forward into sc2 :D
-_-
For some reason people can't respect the fact that BW is a much more prestigious scene that SC2 and that it shouldn't be treated as a factory for churning out good SC2 players who stagnate inside the GSL.
On July 20 2011 14:42 ndralcasid wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else thinks the STX players aren't exactly happy about this? This is pretty much one giant fuck you from the manager to the players. Coupled with the "no players on the bench" incident last year, and STX is pretty much my least favorite team at this point
actually, what's ironic is that (as mentioned by someone earlier), in other sports, the coach is usually the one given the sack, but stx have so much faith on kim eun-dong (cause he's been at the team since its creation) that they'd rather trade the team than to let him go, lol.
not even with just other sports, but other teams as well. SKT and KT have had their founding coaches and staff sacked and did very well soon afterwards. I believe Oz had their founding head-coach sacked too.
On July 20 2011 14:56 SolvusAnima wrote: If Calm gets traded to SKT, I wonder if mustaju would implode...
If they get anyone I'll be pissed. Giving a guy or two away to switch things up wouldn't be so terribly bad if the core remains the same. Putting my guys on T1 and putting those T1 dogs on my team would be criminal though.
I might be going back to Sparkyz soon. ..Why do they always fuck with things I like....
On July 20 2011 14:42 ndralcasid wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else thinks the STX players aren't exactly happy about this? This is pretty much one giant fuck you from the manager to the players. Coupled with the "no players on the bench" incident last year, and STX is pretty much my least favorite team at this point
actually, what's ironic is that (as mentioned by someone earlier), in other sports, the coach is usually the one given the sack, but stx have so much faith on kim eun-dong (cause he's been at the team since its creation) that they'd rather trade the team than to let him go, lol.
not even with just other sports, but other teams as well. SKT and KT have had their founding coaches and staff sacked and did very well soon afterwards. I believe Oz had their founding head-coach sacked too.
no, old coach cho retired (he had a hot wife as well, can't blame him). their new one was the old performance coach (and ex semi-pro, fighter[name])
but yes, kt (and wemade/pantech) are the two teams most notorious for their merry-go-round of head coaches.
On July 20 2011 15:03 Nesto wrote: I mean, has there been any big transfer in the last couple of years? Maybe Light, but who else?
Sparkyz. Also, it wasn't exactly a transfer, but the scandal was kind of an earthquake on the scene.
On July 20 2011 15:03 nayumi wrote: in all seriousness tho, Calm should switch place with Fantasy and I believe it wouldn't affect the scene one bit ...
On July 20 2011 14:42 ndralcasid wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else thinks the STX players aren't exactly happy about this? This is pretty much one giant fuck you from the manager to the players. Coupled with the "no players on the bench" incident last year, and STX is pretty much my least favorite team at this point
actually, what's ironic is that (as mentioned by someone earlier), in other sports, the coach is usually the one given the sack, but stx have so much faith on kim eun-dong (cause he's been at the team since its creation) that they'd rather trade the team than to let him go, lol.
yea I really feel like STX just needs a new coach, not different players
not only do many STX players choke and sporadically slump, but STX seems to get sniped a lot more often than other teams (IE the coach is bad at making a lineup). plus as mentioned that whole dumb bench fiasco last year :\
On July 20 2011 14:46 thopol wrote: It just doesn't make any sense from a fan perspective. I like the team because of its players. I'm not going to follow our dorky coach to the ends of the earth with whichever pokemon he decides to take with him. TT
Realistically, this is just crazy on STX's part. While it has never been top tier, it has never actually been BAD. It has made it to proleague playoffs countless times. While it's obvious that some changes need to be made, putting every player up for grabs is just going to piss the players off, especially since the other teams are going to be hesitant of releasing their own players.
If a trade were to be made, I would guess Classic, Shuttle would be traded out.
While it's not likely to happen, I'd actually want to see a lot of trades being made just to shake up the teams we have right now. It would be interesting to see these unorthodox teams being made. And while we're at it, why not switch up the coaches too ?
On July 20 2011 14:42 ndralcasid wrote: Is it just me, or does anyone else thinks the STX players aren't exactly happy about this? This is pretty much one giant fuck you from the manager to the players. Coupled with the "no players on the bench" incident last year, and STX is pretty much my least favorite team at this point
actually, what's ironic is that (as mentioned by someone earlier), in other sports, the coach is usually the one given the sack, but stx have so much faith on kim eun-dong (cause he's been at the team since its creation) that they'd rather trade the team than to let him go, lol.
not even with just other sports, but other teams as well. SKT and KT have had their founding coaches and staff sacked and did very well soon afterwards. I believe Oz had their founding head-coach sacked too.
no, old coach cho retired (he had a hot wife as well, can't blame him). their new one was the old performance coach (and ex semi-pro, fighter[name])
but yes, kt (and wemade/pantech) are the two teams most notorious for their merry-go-round of head coaches.
KT has themselves a keeper though. KT's coaching staff is nothing short of fucking brillaint imo (same goes with SKT and CJ). Wemade's coaching staff however.........
I think the idea is to trade their veterans for young guys. That means Kal and Calm. While they are underperforming, they are very accomplished. A team looking for a real playoff push in 2012 would consider investing a promising rookie for the established veteran. I think STX will eye Khan for this reason. Khan was in the lower end of the playoffs, and having an inform Kal or Calm would greatly help them next year. They have a lot of rookies and 2-3 year players they could unload.
Don't underestimate Kal's trade value. Physically, he is the youngest of the dragons. While free and Stork have the age problem, Kal is actually younger than Bisu and there is still plenty of time for him to recover to top form.
STX will not trade Bogus, that would be suicide. His potential is too strong. STX wants the young guys, I'm sure of it.
This could actually be a good thing for the industry. Right now there are very few player rights and most are fixed in their position with little room for raises/negotiation rights due to iron-clad free agency rules and institutionalized lack of trading.
I would love to see most teams opening up their rosters to trades and to aggressively attempt to improve their lineups - this would create more demand for players and likely improve their career options.
They lost because Kal lost to an inferior player, Calm lost to an inferior player in his best matchup and Classic lost to an inferior player in his best matchup.
3rd match between KT and STX:
Hyvaa loses to HoeJJa (hyvaa is better in ZvZ), Classic loses to BarrackS (Classic is better in TvT) and finally Kal loses to Crazy-Hydra.
WTF is this. How can you be satisfied with the team when this is happening. I'd never say that they aren't "bad" or anything. They are BAD. That's it. They just lose to teams with inferior lineups. How can this be not bad. Yeah, this may be a bold move for e-sports but totally understandable in STX's point of view.
On July 20 2011 11:01 OopsOopsBaby wrote: TOSSGIRL FOR SALE??????
Aha well played, I like how that is the first thing you think of. I think STX is currently doing decent at the moment with some players, but if the coach thinks some changes are made for the team to live, then so be it.
On July 20 2011 11:49 gds wrote: Why all the love for Bogus? He's not a bad player of course, he won most of his last 10 games but if you go just a little bit deeper on his record list it's not that impressive imo.
What are you talking aboout?Bogus is a super rookie,probably top3 terran in years to come.
On July 20 2011 11:49 gds wrote: Why all the love for Bogus? He's not a bad player of course, he won most of his last 10 games but if you go just a little bit deeper on his record list it's not that impressive imo.
What are you talking aboout?Bogus is a super rookie,probably top3 terran in years to come.
Huh? What are you talking about? Bogus isn't a rookie.
On July 20 2011 16:08 Lucumo wrote: Looks like mustaju removed his icon. Dunno why he deleted his post though. Was something like: "Tell me it's not true. Please. Please. T_T"
What a joke! Never seen anything similar in any sports before...
If there is no cash transactions allowed, how can you value progamers 1 for 1? No one will trade you good players for bad players, so you'll end up worst I'd say.
I bet this is just some crazy news to kick their players in the butt.
On July 20 2011 16:29 HighTemper wrote: If there is no cash transactions allowed, how can you value progamers 1 for 1? No one will trade you good players for bad players, so you'll end up worst I'd say.
I'd assume they still get to negotiate contracts. I think that it just meant that they aren't auctioning them off, they are actually trading them.
I think if STX can keep Bogus, Shuttle and Modesty as their core, then they could benefit greatly from trading Kal or Calm for someone fresh and maybe try and snatching some promising rookies along the way. It seems like terrrible news, but in reality, I think this could work out for the better, we'll see next season!
I commend their audaciousness, but no way in hell this is gonna work. I mean their roster isnt that strong, so trading for players on the same level but with no common experience or team spirit just seems plain silly. It could work out but i highly doubt it, i think were gonna see STX crash and burn. 11 years of history put on the line here. On the other hand its been a long time since a new pro-team was formed. If there comes an entirely new team (not STX, but perhaps some of its players, that manages to stabilize id be thoroughly impressed about the koreans love for BW)
Haha, what on earth are they thinking.I am so interested in how this bulk sale/trade will go, but to be honest nothing good is going to come out from it imo.
On July 20 2011 16:49 Assymptotic wrote: Switch Kal for either Jangbi or Free.
Isn't Jangbi performing pretty well now?
His PvZ sucks against anyone who matters. I figure Calm would make a better practice partner than what the Khan house has to offer. As for his other matchups, I feel as if he is strong enough on them that he can sort of break off from the Khan line and pave his own way. Besides, Bogus is a good Terran, and Shuttle has one of the best PvP in the history of BW, so these matchups are likely to get strengthened as well.
Smells like a fail fest but we shall see. Hope STX will do better in the future. Kal should definetly find another team if he wants to get back in the business.
On July 20 2011 16:49 Assymptotic wrote: Switch Kal for either Jangbi or Free.
Isn't Jangbi performing pretty well now?
His PvZ sucks against anyone who matters. I figure Calm would make a better practice partner than what the Khan house has to offer. As for his other matchups, I feel as if he is strong enough on them that he can sort of break off from the Khan line and pave his own way. Besides, Bogus is a good Terran, and Shuttle has one of the best PvP in the history of BW, so these matchups are likely to get strengthened as well.
Apart from acquiring grape from the estro b-team, i don't think khan has ever been involved in player trades or sales.
On July 20 2011 14:30 EchoZ wrote: Where is Mustaju...
I think he is crying :c
I think same too. I'm understand it because when Light move to Stars and I'm crying Well, someone please tell this is a joke...Sorry, I'm speechless for a while after read this.
On July 20 2011 16:49 Assymptotic wrote: Switch Kal for either Jangbi or Free.
Isn't Jangbi performing pretty well now?
His PvZ sucks against anyone who matters. I figure Calm would make a better practice partner than what the Khan house has to offer. As for his other matchups, I feel as if he is strong enough on them that he can sort of break off from the Khan line and pave his own way. Besides, Bogus is a good Terran, and Shuttle has one of the best PvP in the history of BW, so these matchups are likely to get strengthened as well.
Apart from acquiring grape from the estro b-team, i don't think khan has ever been involved in player trades or sales.
Would really love a change in the management/coaching within STX instead of having every player up for trade. Changes of this magnitude can either end up good or bad. Really hope STX gets their spirit up next season.
On July 20 2011 17:53 ArhK wrote: Are they doing that because they plan on joining SC2 and therefore replace their """old sc1 assets""" with talented sc2 players ?
On July 20 2011 17:53 ArhK wrote: Are they doing that because they plan on joining SC2 and therefore replace their """old sc1 assets""" with talented sc2 players ?
Their move seems so brutal...
:facepalm:
why do people post shit like this.
learn to read the OP,this has nothing to do with SC2 in any way whatsoever.
On July 20 2011 17:53 ArhK wrote: Are they doing that because they plan on joining SC2 and therefore replace their """old sc1 assets""" with talented sc2 players ?
Their move seems so brutal...
Some of us are upset enough about this shit without all your Starcrap2 shits, so please kindly stfu and gtfo.
On July 20 2011 18:19 pvzvt wrote: if oz is not taking a good protoss forget that give me bogus !
OZ has enough Protoss players imo. They can certainly develop Dear, Shy and Sky. And Anytime is an experienced player, so he can always give advice. Dunno what PerfectHair is good for though.
Also, kinda lame that ffreakk gets temp banned while ArhK doesn't even get a warning.
/edit: Meh, kuroshiroi answered already, should have F5'ed beforehand.
The players must feel devastated about this. They just lose in a semi-emabarassing fashion to KT, with some questionably weak games from their top dogs. Their manager follows the loss with "I give up, give me a new group to work with". As a player, I would be highly upset. I am not sure if this will turn into a good bluff call by management to fire their players up, or if it will backfire on them with trades not following through, and the players lose interest.
This is going to be a roller coaster ride for STX this week. I hope that the management knows what they are doing and aren't doing this blindly out of frustration of their recent loss. If the players can keep a focused state of mind, they should be fine wherever they end up.
A very interesting idea. At least it shows that STX is still keen on sponsoring a team, but is unsatisfied with the results. It's very hard to predict how will this affect the players, or if other teams will want to snatch any slumping players at all - though Bogus might be one of the most desirable new players of the scene. Also, it is a nice opportunity to shake up the scene with exchanging some players who are unmotivated in their current teams. Let's see how this turns out...
This is seriously bad news, even if STX isn't the best team around. Stuff likes this completely disregards the feelings of the players. Although some STX players might get recruited to more promising teams, they can also be contracted to less promising teams.
On July 20 2011 11:18 Zyferous wrote: Oz should pick up clam actually. Jaedong will finally have a competent zerg practice partner to improve his ZvZ to old times!
Killer is technically ranked higher than Calm right now and in my eyes better and certainly a lot brighter hope for the future.
Lots of people saying OZ should pick someone up but this is a trade not a sale and they don't really have anyone to trade away. Hiya will hopefully suck less next year if we traded him away they would be literally no T on OZ (unless I guese he was traded for a T). Killer is just looking better and better I think he's a keeper. The only trade that makes much sense for the team would be to trade Jaedong for like 3 competent players but that’s almost certainly not gonna happen.
It would be amazing to have Free (Edit: I obviously ment Kal) come over and start a Protoss after school Hagwon for SHY, Dear and SKY but I think that’s just optimistic dreaming as we don't really have anyone of Fres’s calibar to trade away.
Ohh yeah, time to give the deck a nice mix. Sure - heartbreak of conditions altered, but the opportunities and combinations provide much entertainment.
On July 20 2011 19:59 KTF_CloaK wrote: Bogus to KT!!!!
Action for Bogus? Would be good for KT if STX will agree with that :p. Bogus is kinda better than Action so I guess KT could take Shuttle instead if they want because Reach doesn't play and stats, and sometimes tempest, does all the protoss work.
EDIT: Action always shows potential, but he cracked up in a lot games before when he was in the lead(watch Action vs Classic in fortress to see how could a 3 base Z lose to a 1 base T). Action is also not a home grown player.
On July 20 2011 19:59 KTF_CloaK wrote: Bogus to KT!!!!
Action for Bogus? Would be good for KT if STX will agree with that :p. Bogus is kinda better than Action so I guess KT could take Shuttle instead if they want because Reach doesn't play and stats, and sometimes tempest, does all the protoss work.
blind rawr will immediately disagree because after yesterday game action showed some potential and in my eyes yes it's promising but i don't think kt let go any of their home grown players as you know after years of bringing up this guys . So no for safe bet kt is not trading any damn thing but i could be wrong ...
On July 20 2011 19:59 KTF_CloaK wrote: Bogus to KT!!!!
Action for Bogus? Would be good for KT if STX will agree with that :p. Bogus is kinda better than Action so I guess KT could take Shuttle instead if they want because Reach doesn't play and stats, and sometimes tempest, does all the protoss work.
blind rawr will immediately disagree because after yesterday game action showed some potential and in my eyes yes it's promising but i don't think kt let go any of their home grown players as you know after years of bringing up this guys . So no for safe bet kt is not trading any damn thing but i could be wrong ...
THat'd be so unfair for STX, especially Bogus is better than Stats nowadays (if he keeps his form, that is)
And you KT and SKT fans, do you really want these players to join your teams? You don't like competition do you? It would kill PL if Calm, Kal or Bogus joined SKT, CJ or KT. It would suck.
STX were a team full of many a hero. but then their Shuttle got FrOzen and they went from being Calm to being absolutely Bogus. now they need to bring in a newProgamer to increase their Size and to try and achieve a Last ditchmini revival. perhaps it's a sign of Modesty or a ClassicTrap.
On July 20 2011 20:36 BloodDrunK wrote: STX were a team full of many a hero. but then their Shuttle got FrOzen and they went from being Calm to being absolutely Bogus. now they need to bring in a newProgamer to increase their Size and to try and achieve a Last ditchmini revival. perhaps it's a sign of Modesty or a ClassicTrap.
On July 20 2011 20:36 BloodDrunK wrote: STX were a team full of many a hero. but then their Shuttle got FrOzen and they went from being Calm to being absolutely Bogus. now they need to bring in a newProgamer to increase their Size and to try and achieve a Last ditchmini revival. perhaps it's a sign of Modesty or a ClassicTrap.
Wonder how long it will take to show results since I know progammers take a while to get readjusted to new houses. This seems to be one of those things that's either an amazingly great move or completely downright stupid.
WTFFFF. Not sure how I feel about this... if STX gets a stronger lineup while retaining their top players I would be fine with that. If everyone leaves then I'm not sure I can hold on to this STX tag =/.
These korean pros are all underpaid anyway, just budget more money for salaries and you will get the good players. And improve the living conditions of the pros!!!!
On July 20 2011 20:34 Elroi wrote: This is so bad for the fans. This is so stupid.
What they need is a new coach.
And you KT and SKT fans, do you really want these players to join your teams? You don't like competition do you? It would kill PL if Calm, Kal or Bogus joined SKT, CJ or KT. It would suck.
Skt doesn't like any competition after all just look at all their star line ups which consist of imba Bisu,by.Sun,Fantasy,Soo,S2(zerg sniper) so really skt doesn't need the transfer or exchange of progammers if you look at kt we only have one ultimate weapon which is flash (so the need for ace) if we can just get one consistent zerg into our roster we would definitely take down darth vader skt 1.
So yes I am hoping that either Crazy hydra or Action step it up and be our hero or transfer is inevitable well that is according to me ... Because currently kt isn't really quite a depth and consistent team and every time one of the reliable players goes down such as stats and flash it's game over although no doubt hoejja is the new bonjwa but i am not convinced until he takes down the big names well soulkey hoejja did win him but fantasy,Light and other good terran I am quite weary. About CH,Action and barracks they are still young rookies of kt so I have a little doubt although it is shameful to say so . Anyway i am merely giving my view as a kt fan who wants his team to win so stx guys please do not look at me as some one who wants destroy proleague .
according to one of the DES articles, they are trying to make the player trades based on skill, rather than salary. So what I think the STX coach is trying to do is to totally overhaul its team, and to get fresh sparring partners for the players who aren't traded away.
On July 20 2011 20:36 BloodDrunK wrote: STX were a team full of many a hero. but then their Shuttle got FrOzen and they went from being Calm to being absolutely Bogus. now they need to bring in a newProgamer to increase their Size and to try and achieve a Last ditchmini revival. perhaps it's a sign of Modesty or a ClassicTrap.
On July 20 2011 20:36 BloodDrunK wrote: STX were a team full of many a hero. but then their Shuttle got FrOzen and they went from being Calm to being absolutely Bogus. now they need to bring in a newProgamer to increase their Size and to try and achieve a Last ditchmini revival. perhaps it's a sign of Modesty or a ClassicTrap.
You got SOUL man! This is just gold!
Also, I'm looking at some possible trades right now; it could shake up pro-league line-ups if multiple trades occur.
i think oz and mbc should get first dibs all the other teams are so deep since the merging of hite and estro give us bogus we'll give you hiya and add dear to sweeten the deal
this seems odd to me ... does this often work out in a team's favor? like if the overall feel of the team is wrong, or perhaps the team's not getting along well?
On July 20 2011 23:00 price wrote: this seems odd to me ... does this often work out in a team's favor? like if the overall feel of the team is wrong, or perhaps the team's not getting along well?
Well, no one's ever really done this before in BW history. As far as the team, though, STX is kind of notoriously bad when it comes to team spirit and stuff. So I really don't know what's going on.
On July 20 2011 23:05 SaetZero wrote: Bogus, Calm, Shuttle, Kal, and Classic will be available?
Oh dear...
COME ON MBC. BOGUS. HES RIGHT THERE. YOU MISS LIGHT. GET NEW TERRAN. SUPER GOOD.
Hell, I'll take any of them (maybe not classic alone lol) for MBC. We need another! Bogus would be a great addition, Calm as second choice.
(side edit: i like how active this thread is. people still like the bw ^^ neat!)
Only problem in this I see, is that if STX main agenda is to trade player for player. Then MBC has to give something back to them in exchange. Only players that then could be viable options, are rookies or b-teamers with potential to make it to a-line with correct coaching.
Anyways bold move from STX to do this kind of move. Stirring up the scene can be exactly what bw needs right now
guys stop talking about how this is destroying the team`s confidence and how bad of an idea this is, this kind of stuff happens ALL THE TIME in professional sports and it`s about time someone decided to trade players for players instead of giving them away for money
On July 20 2011 23:49 swanized wrote: guys stop talking about how this is destroying the team`s confidence and how bad of an idea this is, this kind of stuff happens ALL THE TIME in professional sports and it`s about time someone decided to trade players for players instead of giving them away for money
While it happens in professional sports often, it's still a first for e-sports. And even though it wouldn't destroy STX's confidence, it certainly won't make them feel any good.
On July 20 2011 23:49 swanized wrote: guys stop talking about how this is destroying the team`s confidence and how bad of an idea this is, this kind of stuff happens ALL THE TIME in professional sports and it`s about time someone decided to trade players for players instead of giving them away for money
While it happens in professional sports often, it's still a first for e-sports. And even though it wouldn't destroy STX's confidence, it certainly won't make them feel any good.
yeah sure I understand the point but still, I think a lot are over-reacting to this.
Besides this kind of deal can only add excitement and make the scene look even more serious so why not?
in my opinion STX management should be respected for their balls of STEEL
That is true, the massive shake-up can just as likely rejuvenate STX as much as it may flatten them. Though looking at it in hindsight, it is a fairly intelligent idea, collateral and all. Having multiple aces is a good idea but when your best players are players that are all capable of slumping really badly then you do need to make changes.
Yeah, really not that crazy. It's a big move, but it's exactly what many pro sport teams have done before. I am sure STX just told all the other teams, 'My team is open. Come at me with your best player-for-player trades. If they're good, I'll do it.'
If teams come out and want to try to trade trash for players like Bogus, STX will probably tell them to fuck off and stay pat. If they think that they can get some great prospects or younger stars for the more established players like Kal or Calm, they'll probably do it. If they like someone for whatever reason, like let's say Pure, and he's offered up, they'll do a trade.
They're not just doing a garage sale here. They want STX to be a new team, but they want a competitive team that can thrive for a title in the next year or two. They haven't been winning with their current foundation, so they want to shake it up. Some of the fans of their favorite players might be upset, but for fans of the actual team, STX, this could be a great move.
I really hope teams like Fox, OZ, and Khan all take up STX's offers and try to spin some deals. All those teams need to make some big moves to contend with SKT1, CJ, KT and to a lesser extent, Stars. It adds some excitement to the lead up to the finals/offseason. Reminds me of when people thought Jaedong was going to leave OZ because his parents were sick of him carrying the team, and everyone was speculating on what team would sign him.
yeah like has been said its all about the player for player trades. im not sure who would want to go there of value right now but i dont think they will be disbanding. imo they should be offering multiple players for really good players to get back into it.
i hope they sold it well to their players. if a team puts you up for trade it basically sais *we do no really want to hold you, bogus* and imho that weakens the team spirit
The only one I actually see being moved is Hero for some reason. Hero for a Khan rookie something seems viable since Khan's Zerg line is pretty bad. The forner Estro players Hyvaa and Classic could potentially be moved as well.
Well, must admit something had to be done for STX. Build a team around a guy like Bogus would be great to see. Looking forward for the outcome of that move.
Would it be possible for a mod to alter the "great post" script to replace all of the SC2s in this thread? It's not as if anyone talking about that game is either contributing to the conversation, or really knows what's going on in BW.
Very daring move, have to say. Only time will tell if this is actually going to work out for STX. Doing this gigantic trade-off could well give STX a bad reputation, and in case none of their players get traded, who knows what will happen. I think that if that happens, most of the current players will be so pissed with this decision and will not trust STX anymore, and therefore just quit for good.
I think that SKT1 Should trade BEST for TOssgirl, somehow i feel Fantasy and bisu would be encouraged to try harder.. what do they need 2 imba toss for anyway??? :D
On July 21 2011 01:05 hacklebeast wrote: Would it be possible for a mod to alter the "great post" script to replace all of the SC2s in this thread? It's not as if anyone talking about that game is either contributing to the conversation, or really knows what's going on in BW.
This please!
Also, I'm looking forward to Khan possibly adding some stable depth to their line (Calm comes to my mid first) and we can afford to trade away one or two of our many many rookies.
On July 21 2011 01:05 hacklebeast wrote: Would it be possible for a mod to alter the "great post" script to replace all of the SC2s in this thread? It's not as if anyone talking about that game is either contributing to the conversation, or really knows what's going on in BW.
This please!
Also, I'm looking forward to Khan possibly adding some stable depth to their line (Calm comes to my mid first) and we can afford to trade away one or two of our many many rookies.
Calm for a rookie?
???
Calm for Jangbi or something maybe, but they're not going to trade away one of their ace players for some rookie on Khan lol.
On July 21 2011 01:00 Healasouhait wrote: Well, must admit something had to be done for STX. Build a team around a guy like Bogus would be great to see. Looking forward for the outcome of that move.
Shuttle's obviously been playing for a few years, but under this scenario I'd think STX is trying to see what they could get in trade for (specifically) Calm, Kal, and by.hero. Some plausibilities:
Calm: OZ, Stars, KT, CJ all have good Zergs (or in KT's case, good prospects in Action and CH) and aren't reasonably in the bidding. ACE of course doesn't do trades. SKT has never seemed to worry too much about their bad Zergs and is doing okay right now. Then scenarios: to KHAN for Brave, Grape, or TurN; to WeMade for Midas or Major; to MBC for Jaehoon or Tyson.
Kal: KHAN, SKT, MBC, CJ all have solid Protoss. KT (Violet/Anyppi) and OZ (all those young Protoss) are both in flux, and imo would be giving up too much of their other advantages in a trade. WeMade could look to trade Major or Midas for Kal, especially if they're looking to develop Wooki. Woongjin's an interesting case: free is inconsistent, GuemChi's still a prospect-level player but an older one at this point; Flying isn't really working out so far. The obvious trade would be Really for Kal, since Stars picked up Light now. On the other hand, that leaves Stars paying for both free and Kal, who are currently playing about the same - mediocre - which doesn't make much sense.
by.hero: tbh, I don't see any trade possibilities here. Almost every team already has a mediocre Zerg who's a ZvP sniper when he's playing well. Granted they don't all have 400 APM mediocre Zergs, but I'm not seeing that as a selling point.
On the other hand, I can see quite a few teams (WeMade, Woongjin, KT at a minimum) who would be interested in picking up Shuttle; others (MBC, OZ, maybe Woongjin) who from a purely competitive standpoint should be willing to give a lot for Bogus.
Until we have more details, I don't know what we can really predict. :/
Oh boy, I hope they've got some deep pockets if they want to make this work. Overhauls can come at a cheap(er) price if you're going for young talent, but I'd imagine they'll try to net a couple medium-big names.
I'd survive with like a Kal for Snow trade, or something. :p
I dunno, I really like the STX Line-up as it is right now. They're just all really volatile players and maybe he's hoping to remedy that by open trades.
Anyways, I don't think we're going to see a completely different STX, maybe three trades at most that are relevant, and hopefully nothing too devastating. Kal for Really wouldn't be a fair trade, haha.
I hope we don't see a completely different STX, that would be too much to stomach.
Also, I wonder how the STX master's cup is going to turn out. Midway through the tournament everyone's lineup changes? I guess it shouldn't interfere with the PL grand finals.
But really, I don't think this is as bad as people seem to want to make it out to be. It's a player-player trade so we're not gonna see SKT/KT whoever just dump money and take everyone worth a damn off of STX.
Well if Kal goes from STX then I no longer care for the team, it is sad to see him slumping and his team basically say that their players who should be performing are shit and up for trade. Oh I guess I still care if Shuttle is there or not. Who doesn't love Shuttle?
I highly doubt STX will trade Bogus out for anyone. If you look at Bogus's record, he is 61-44 (58.10%) overall and 8-2 in his last 10 games. He has no especially weak match-ups, with his lowest being TvT at 15-12 (55.56%). Bogus has proven himself to be a pillar of STX for almost the entirety of this PL season. To trade him out would be a terrible decision.
For ACE supporters, all this trade chaos is no more than like watching fire burn far across the river After all our team doesn't acquire players, the players come to us.
On July 21 2011 01:12 UkGracken wrote: I think that SKT1 Should trade BEST for TOssgirl, somehow i feel Fantasy and bisu would be encouraged to try harder.. what do they need 2 imba toss for anyway??? :D
^ this. plus they have afro and sun starting to get better so why not trade a toss for tossgirl? you essentially get a free girl
On July 21 2011 02:37 Hanlym2 wrote: It's a "trade".
They are not selling anyone.
Other teams have to give someone up in order to bring people from STX. I wouldn't trade my players with Kal. Maybe Calm yes.
Yes, but they are essentially saying that each and every member of the team is being offered, i.e. are possibly off the team if another team gives a suitable offer.
On July 21 2011 01:05 hacklebeast wrote: Would it be possible for a mod to alter the "great post" script to replace all of the SC2s in this thread? It's not as if anyone talking about that game is either contributing to the conversation, or really knows what's going on in BW.
only a powerful wizard could accomplish such a feat
On July 21 2011 02:37 Hanlym2 wrote: It's a "trade".
They are not selling anyone.
Other teams have to give someone up in order to bring people from STX. I wouldn't trade my players with Kal. Maybe Calm yes.
Yes, but they are essentially saying that each and every member of the team is being offered, i.e. are possibly off the team if another team gives a suitable offer.
I doubt anything will come out of this, though.
from a team standpoint, he's correct though. It's a trade.
Lose Kal, gain Snow. (just a random example)
Yeah it looks like STX is "selling" Kal, but they are "buying" Snow. Yeah salaries will be negotiated, but for all intents and purposes it's a player trade.
On July 21 2011 01:05 hacklebeast wrote: Would it be possible for a mod to alter the "great post" script to replace all of the SC2s in this thread? It's not as if anyone talking about that game is either contributing to the conversation, or really knows what's going on in BW.
only a powerful wizard could accomplish such a feat
One whose mighty powers are known throughout the land.
@Torenhire: I know it's a trade ofc; it's just the idea that they put so little faith in any of their players :|
I don't think it's because they have no faith in their players. I think they have a problem with their current line up and that's what they're trying to fix.
So far Bogus has been the only solid player the last few matches. Everyone else is a really volatile player...while this makes STX my favorite team because you never know what is going to go well or poorly, the coach needs a team that can stabilize. Calm, Kal, Shuttle, Hero are all very inconsistant players. Like...look at Shuttle. He's always been able to give Flash problems (before his wrist injury, so don't even start) and then other times he loses PVP (remember he's supposed to be a PvP bonjwa) to like...Sun and Jaehoon.
Calm...Clam...you know why he's called Clam, so that's all I need to put down.
Kal is Kal. He's the "choke king" according to a lot of people...He's right behind Hyuk in the "I like to lose my own games for myself" line.
Hero is hero, lol. I don't even see him play hardly anymore.
I think this way it allows them to control who goes and who stays, and it's not based on Salary, so they aren't trying to get cheaper players or anything. I think they have an idea of who they are willing to let go of, and who they won't (unless they get offered Flash or something) but we'll just have to wait and see which teams take a bite.
You could say that STX is taking a Kalculated risk here.
I'm surprised that they have offers so quickly, I can't imagine any trades that they'd be able to do, but then again, I'm not the STX coach.
But yeah it seems to me like it's like soccer, like how some players in their clubs are not for sale and stuff, cept STX did the opposite and put up their players as "Available".
Pretty much what swanized said, since it's trades based on player value, it's probably a decent thing for STX as a team to get some new blood in there, unless of course they decide to do something dumb.
On July 21 2011 03:02 Xiphos wrote: Okay....KHAN need to get by.Hero Oz needs Kal MBC need Calm That's all I can think of.
KHAN really doesn't need by.hero. He's like a worse version of great.
LOL, I am NOT talking about the team's performance. I am talking about Stork and JangBi's unability to defend against cheesy zergs and if hero is on KHAN, they probably can learn to defend.
On July 21 2011 03:02 Xiphos wrote: Okay....KHAN need to get by.Hero Oz needs Kal MBC need Calm That's all I can think of.
KHAN really doesn't need by.hero. He's like a worse version of great.
LOL, I am NOT talking about the team's performance. I am talking about Stork and JangBi's unability to defend against cheesy zergs and if hero is on KHAN, they probably can learn to defend.
Hmm, fair enough. I still don't think it would be worth it, though. Who would be traded? Hero isn't even that good [at cheesing and whatnot] in the first place :x
On July 20 2011 15:36 Crisium wrote: I think the idea is to trade their veterans for young guys. That means Kal and Calm. While they are underperforming, they are very accomplished. A team looking for a real playoff push in 2012 would consider investing a promising rookie for the established veteran. I think STX will eye Khan for this reason. Khan was in the lower end of the playoffs, and having an inform Kal or Calm would greatly help them next year. They have a lot of rookies and 2-3 year players they could unload.
Don't underestimate Kal's trade value. Physically, he is the youngest of the dragons. While free and Stork have the age problem, Kal is actually younger than Bisu and there is still plenty of time for him to recover to top form.
STX will not trade Bogus, that would be suicide. His potential is too strong. STX wants the young guys, I'm sure of it.
This is pretty much in line with what I'm thinking, except I think KHAN will gun more for Calm than Kal. I don't think STX is going to look to move Kal for someone like JangBi, and having Stork/JangBi/Kal would be a huge salary sink for 3 protoss players, especially if they run into a situation where Protoss aren't being favored by the current map set or the metagame shifts towards Z/T dominance over P. Adding Calm will give them a head to their Zerg line, which was pretty much a revolving door of whatever towards the end of the season.
On July 20 2011 16:29 HighTemper wrote: What a joke! Never seen anything similar in any sports before...
If there is no cash transactions allowed, how can you value progamers 1 for 1? No one will trade you good players for bad players, so you'll end up worst I'd say.
I bet this is just some crazy news to kick their players in the butt.
Really? I think a month ago Danny Ainge said that they'd consider trade offers for anyone on the Celtics, including the Big 3 + Rondo.
And they can pretty much negotiate 1 piece for 2 or something similar. 1-to-1 might not work, but - just a random example - STX could send Calm to KHAN for ByuL + Turn. KHAN gets a seasoned veteran Zerg for their extremely underperforming lineup, giving motivation to all of their Zergs, while STX gets a pair of younger players who have shown some signs of value late in the PL season with which they can build a team to last them a few seasons.
STX can't go 1-for-1 here and walk away a winner. They're going to have to try and sell the past reputations of Kal and Calm and hope that they can work some trades, but they're also going to have to make their own gambles on the players.
On July 21 2011 03:33 Weedk wrote: Before anybody else in this thread waits for mustaju...
On July 20 2011 15:49 mustaju wrote: Way to be dicks, guys.
Must feel pretty demoralizing to be the first entire team in BW history to be told that they're all dispensable and unwanted.
Where did you hear that??
This is the first time an entire team has been put up for trade. I'm assuming that's the message the management wants to get across. Corporations tend to be dicks.
It's not that the team is dispensable and unwanted, it's that the team as it is right now won't work.
It's like a long distance relationship...you can love the girl and she can love you all you two want, but if you guys never see each other, it's not going to work out. Things need to change, like you need to go to her, or her to you.
Same thing. The team isn't cutting it with a team full of mid-level players. They need an Ace we can rely on to win games. We need rookies who can rise up and step up to the plate (see: Bogus - not a rookie but he's doing what the team needs)
We're making changes for STX SouL to survive as a team - so we don't go the way of the Estro.
On July 21 2011 03:33 Weedk wrote: Before anybody else in this thread waits for mustaju...
On July 20 2011 15:49 mustaju wrote: Way to be dicks, guys.
Must feel pretty demoralizing to be the first entire team in BW history to be told that they're all dispensable and unwanted.
Where did you hear that??
This is the first time an entire team has been put up for trade. I'm assuming that's the message the management wants to get across. Corporations tend to be dicks.
This happens all the time in professional sports. Everybody in the Celtics is essentially available and the only Laker that's currently untouchable is Kobe.
On July 21 2011 03:47 Caos2 wrote: STX might hold on to Bogus, but Kal would be a great addition to WeMade. Maybe in exchange for Free and Mind.
Wemade cant let go Mind, especially for and underperforming Kal, the best trade Wemade could get would be bogus, and since i dont think that would happen for a number of reasons, i seriously doubt Wemade is going to do any notable trades with STX
On July 21 2011 03:33 Weedk wrote: Before anybody else in this thread waits for mustaju...
On July 20 2011 15:49 mustaju wrote: Way to be dicks, guys.
Must feel pretty demoralizing to be the first entire team in BW history to be told that they're all dispensable and unwanted.
Where did you hear that??
This is the first time an entire team has been put up for trade. I'm assuming that's the message the management wants to get across. Corporations tend to be dicks.
It's STX's coach that actually proposed and got permission from STX to do this, not STX themselves. And why do you think corporations tend to be dicks? are you one of those anti-big business guys lol?
What people need to understand, and hopefully Mustaju understands - is that they are doing this so that STX doesn't die off. STX in its current form won't last with its sponsorship for much longer, at least going off of what the coach is saying.
when was the last time STX came close to winning something major? Or a player in the finals of a major tournament?
Horrendous decision to announce this, they come to the bargaining table with their full hand showing.
If they wanted to shake it up, they could have done 1 for 2 trades that some people have already recommended like Calm and Kal for promising (and cheap) rookies but to announce you want to trade everyone sounds desperate.
On July 21 2011 04:39 Torenhire wrote: What people need to understand, and hopefully Mustaju understands - is that they are doing this so that STX doesn't die off. STX in its current form won't last with its sponsorship for much longer, at least going off of what the coach is saying.
when was the last time STX came close to winning something major? Or a player in the finals of a major tournament?
Also, Calm and Kal, their two most promising trading chips are slumping (Kal horrendously so), they are never gonna get anywhere near the value they might deserve.
The amount of SC2 trolls in here is disturbingly high, its like a BW chat during games.
In all seriousness, I don't think people will want to trade STX A teamers, sure theyl want bogus but I don't think anyone can put up a guy(or will) to trade for bogus who is at the same or higher level.
Oz could use a Protoss though, I wouldn't mind Shuttle ^^.
On July 21 2011 03:33 Weedk wrote: Before anybody else in this thread waits for mustaju...
On July 20 2011 15:49 mustaju wrote: Way to be dicks, guys.
Must feel pretty demoralizing to be the first entire team in BW history to be told that they're all dispensable and unwanted.
Where did you hear that??
This is the first time an entire team has been put up for trade. I'm assuming that's the message the management wants to get across. Corporations tend to be dicks.
It's STX's coach that actually proposed and got permission from STX to do this, not STX themselves. And why do you think corporations tend to be dicks? are you one of those anti-big business guys lol?
By nature, Corporations need to consider money first. And that means placing money over the player's feelings.
On July 21 2011 03:33 Weedk wrote: Before anybody else in this thread waits for mustaju...
On July 20 2011 15:49 mustaju wrote: Way to be dicks, guys.
Must feel pretty demoralizing to be the first entire team in BW history to be told that they're all dispensable and unwanted.
Where did you hear that??
This is the first time an entire team has been put up for trade. I'm assuming that's the message the management wants to get across. Corporations tend to be dicks.
It's STX's coach that actually proposed and got permission from STX to do this, not STX themselves. And why do you think corporations tend to be dicks? are you one of those anti-big business guys lol?
By nature, Corporations need to consider money first. And that means placing money over the player's feelings.
Pretty sure professional sports teams place winning first over player's feelings. I don't remember a huge outcry from Laker fans to consider Kwame Brown's feelings. And the entire team besides Kobe was on the trading block then.
On July 21 2011 04:43 amazingoopah wrote: Horrendous decision to announce this, they come to the bargaining table with their full hand showing.
If they wanted to shake it up, they could have done 1 for 2 trades that some people have already recommended like Calm and Kal for promising (and cheap) rookies but to announce you want to trade everyone sounds desperate.
Actually, I think it's the other way around. The completely open season may be bad for team morale, but STX has had morale problems for the past couple years so that's a minor consideration - and the bargaining advantages go to STX.
What are other options? If we went with normal BW "bargaining": A team wants a specific player to bolster their roster -> Go out and just buy the player. Reach to KT, YellOw to KT, Bisu to SKT, July to SKT, July to STX, fOrGG to KT, Midas to WeMade, CH to KT, Light to Woongjin. I'm sure I've forgotten some. This is the kind of thing that shouldn't happen in a really established sport (MLB and Euro soccer deals notwithstanding) as it gives a huge advantage to the teams with money (incidentally as a Stars fan the Light deal was huge for me because it indicates management is committed to paying enough to win - even if in retrospect selling CH first means the Woongjin budget is relatively limited). But here STX doesn't have clear weaknesses, and with Kal/Calm on roster already probably isn't prepared to pay for a third A-class (actually 4th, but Bogus is home-grown and new right now, so probably not expensive) to bolster an already decent team.
Now if the team has an overpaid player or players, or players they want to get rid of because of scheme, but they're still clearly useful to somebody (or can be advertised as such, at least), they can be shopped around to get the best deal. But who exactly do they want to get rid of? Kal and Calm are workhorses for the team, and thus valuable. They can demand a lot for them in theory - but if you want to get rid of Kal, say, everybody is going to want to know why, and bid low. Bogus is the new ace; Shuttle's still threatening to be a top Protoss. That gives us by.hero, Modesty, hyvaa, Classic as players STX might want to get rid of - but every team already has mediocre Zergs, and only a few teams (OZ?) will want to take a risk on a 3rd year Terran who's clearly still a project.
But if they say, "we're blowing up the team", even if they want to hold on to a couple players - for instance, we're all agreed they'd be insane to let Bogus go, and I think management ought to want Shuttle as well - there are reasons to not advertise it outright. If everyone knew they wanted to get rid of a specific player (in this case, say, Kal or by.hero), then negotiations reflect that and they won't get much. Whereas if they don't say specifically who they want to let go, they can demand a higher price: "Well we wanted to keep that guy actually, but if you were willing to do this as well..."
Eh, STX without Calm and Kal just doesn't feel like STX. IMO, Kal and Calm are the soul of STX.
I hope everything works out with this trading-overhaul. STX has recently felt like a decent team, but definitely lacking in the extra x-factor that the more successful teams have. Hopefully, this will benefit STX positively, as I fear for STX's survival if everything turns out to be worse in the end.
wow this is really revolutionary. I've never seen this happen in any other sport. should be interesting to see the outcome. I hope it works out. I like to see people mixing things up.
Tossgirl on the SKT bench inbetween Bisu and Best would be cuteness overload. I also think oov would be a great coach for her. He seems quite demanding and might be able to help raise her expectations.
On July 21 2011 07:52 hauton wrote: Bogus for Action straight up
I'd rather keep Action. Getting Bogus would just stunt the development of Barracks who has finally been showing some promise recently. I think Last would be better for KT because he's not as good as Bogus (yet?) so him and Barracks could rotate for that second terran spot
On July 21 2011 08:11 ninini wrote: Tossgirl on the SKT bench inbetween Bisu and Best would be cuteness overload. I also think oov would be a great coach for her. He seems quite demanding and might be able to help raise her expectations.
Even though I'm a SKT fan, the Dong and Tossgirl would match. :3
I love people thinking STX would give away Bogus, their only real performer and obvious ACE/best player, for anything other than like 3 good players.
Seriously, he's been one of the best Terrans in Proleague for a while and has outplayed basically ever T who isn't Flash lately, he's not going for anything less than several starters if they trade him at all. He's even trending up, for god's sake. 58.1% win rate overall, 60% in 2011 while being his team's primary Ace for the last several months, and having his best overall record during that time? The guy is exceptionally good and is straight up outperforming Sea, Fantasy, and other "known" factors by a longshot.
On July 21 2011 11:16 EpiK wrote: stunts like these is why e-sports will never be taken seriously
...What? Professional sport teams do this all the time. NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL, etc. Many teams have said, after a disappointing season, that their team is an open cupboard and no one is safe. STX is not going to win a title with their current line-up and they need a change. If they get trades that they think will make their team better, they'll do it. If they get trades that deal Bogus for a player like Perfectman, they'll hang up on the phone.
Player-for-player trades are awesome. I hope e-sports has more of this moving forward. If anything, this makes e-sports more serious.
On July 21 2011 11:16 EpiK wrote: stunts like these is why e-sports will never be taken seriously
Dude did u ever watch soccer for example? Manchester City is good example. Look here.
Did you hear about NFL lockdown? Your thinking is totally (*^&*#$3
These things are normal.
Rofl the lockout is about money not players themselves.
Its all about the money they make.
Well it's almost same thing.
Coach is fuckin mad cuz they don't bring any results to the table. They get pretty high salaries and shitty results. Kal and Calm are a joke this season, i would exchange them myself.
Player trades / selling / buying are pretty normal in other sports. In BW you see players rarely switch teams so maybe it does have bigger impact on some of you tt
On July 21 2011 11:16 EpiK wrote: stunts like these is why e-sports will never be taken seriously
Dude did u ever watch soccer for example? Manchester City is good example. Look here.
Did you hear about NFL lockdown? Your thinking is totally (*^&*#$3
These things are normal.
Rofl the lockout is about money not players themselves.
Its all about the money they make.
Well it's almost same thing.
Coach is fuckin mad cuz they don't bring any results to the table. They get pretty high salaries and shitty results. Kal and Calm are a joke this season, i would exchange them myself.
Player trades / selling / buying are pretty normal in other sports. In BW you see players rarely switch teams so maybe it does have bigger impact on some of you tt
Name me one soccer team that has ever put their entire squad (1st team, reserve team and youth/academy teams included) up for trade on the transfer market. THAT is what STX is doing.
this is probably one of the worst moves ever. i mean i know nothing about sc2 but what player wants to commit to a team that randomly puts all their players on the market? how can they think this will make their team stronger?
This is so weird. It feels like a massive insult to their players imo. Kinda like saying, "you're all worthless, I could do better"
I feel like nothing good will come from this for STX. And for the players who don't get traded and stay on the team, this cannot be good for their form.
On July 21 2011 11:16 EpiK wrote: stunts like these is why e-sports will never be taken seriously
Dude did u ever watch soccer for example? Manchester City is good example. Look here.
Did you hear about NFL lockdown? Your thinking is totally (*^&*#$3
These things are normal.
Rofl the lockout is about money not players themselves.
Its all about the money they make.
Well it's almost same thing.
Coach is fuckin mad cuz they don't bring any results to the table. They get pretty high salaries and shitty results. Kal and Calm are a joke this season, i would exchange them myself.
Player trades / selling / buying are pretty normal in other sports. In BW you see players rarely switch teams so maybe it does have bigger impact on some of you tt
Name me one soccer team that has ever put their entire squad (1st team, reserve team and youth/academy teams included) up for trade on the transfer market. THAT is what STX is doing.
And mustaju, you should come back!
Kinda. I saw first the first team getting all kinda " fuck you " attitude, but u are right never the whole team including youngsters and such ;o
On July 21 2011 11:16 EpiK wrote: stunts like these is why e-sports will never be taken seriously
Dude did u ever watch soccer for example? Manchester City is good example. Look here.
Did you hear about NFL lockdown? Your thinking is totally (*^&*#$3
These things are normal.
Rofl the lockout is about money not players themselves.
Its all about the money they make.
Well it's almost same thing.
Coach is fuckin mad cuz they don't bring any results to the table. They get pretty high salaries and shitty results. Kal and Calm are a joke this season, i would exchange them myself.
Player trades / selling / buying are pretty normal in other sports. In BW you see players rarely switch teams so maybe it does have bigger impact on some of you tt
That's not what the NFL lockout is about at all, in even the slightest way. But sports teams have firesales all the time anyhow, they just always fire the coach first. GTR already went over why they aren't.
On July 21 2011 17:40 Jragon wrote: This seems drastic. How much say do the players involved get in a trade? I'd doubt any would want to go to STX
im pretty sure if the players are contracted in a certain way, then the teams can technically do whatever they want, but most teams wouldn't troll a player that has been loyal/is skilled enough. Many underperforming/lesser known players might actuallycherish the idea of a new environment where they might be able to shine better.
On one hand, I really welcome a much more free trading environment in Brood War.
On the other hand, I really think the problem with STX is coach (manager) Kim. Without being able to read Korean I don't have the full picture, but from what gets translated...I don't think he knows how to properly be a coach his players.
Slumping yet talented players on other teams have seen revivals - like Bisu, Jangbi, etc. I would expect the same from Kal and perhaps Calm given the right coaching, but I don't think it's there.
On July 21 2011 19:26 Zona wrote: On one hand, I really welcome a much more free trading environment in Brood War.
On the other hand, I really think the problem with STX is coach (manager) Kim. Without being able to read Korean I don't have the full picture, but from what gets translated...I don't think he knows how to properly be a coach his players.
Slumping yet talented players on other teams have seen revivals - like Bisu, Jangbi, etc. I would expect the same from Kal and perhaps Calm given the right coaching, but I don't think it's there.
seems like stx management have some sort of a special feelings for the coach i guess =.= "
On July 21 2011 17:40 Jragon wrote: This seems drastic. How much say do the players involved get in a trade? I'd doubt any would want to go to STX
im pretty sure if the players are contracted in a certain way, then the teams can technically do whatever they want, but most teams wouldn't troll a player that has been loyal/is skilled enough. Many underperforming/lesser known players might actuallycherish the idea of a new environment where they might be able to shine better.
On July 20 2011 11:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: uhhhhhhhhh
If the trades happen, write an article!! Write a huge article!! After everyone picks their jaw up from the floor. Or write an article about the reaction to the comments.
It's not everyday that a fan hears that management is going to tear up a team a put it all back together. STX faiting!!
I am seriously considering of converting to stx to support mustaju and stx fans XD they sound like a team that are made of good guys just aren't equip with a proper coach T_T !
On July 21 2011 21:04 Sawamura wrote: found mustaju post and him without his stx icon and his plus sounding quite sad i think maybe mustaju is giving up watching proleague i guess T_T
On July 21 2011 20:59 mustaju wrote: I've seen things some wouldn't believe.
I've seen Battlecruisers dance amidst Hydra fire off the shoulder of Pathfinder.
I've seen C-alms tears glitter in the dark falling near his MSL trophy.
All those moments will be lost in time - like tears. in rain.
Time to go.
noooo mustaju please dont go T_T
Best post of the thread. Hands down.
This is still pretty crazy. When can we expect updates anyway? Do you think they'll even bother until after finals?
In a corporate world this is called a organizational wide restructure, basically they want to cut off the dead weight either thru trades or re-contracting (pay re-adjustments) or discontinue contracts (FIRED).
On July 22 2011 01:45 motiust wrote: In a corporate world this is called a organizational wide restructure, basically they want to cut off the dead weight either thru trades or re-contracting (pay re-adjustments) or discontinue contracts (FIRED).
Pretty much, though they claim that they won't be looking at salaries for trading, just "player skill"
I'm just worried that STX came to SouL and said "hey if you don't start putting up some results, we're yanking sponsorship."
even if they do trade away some players, the remaining players can't be feeling too great about the team. it's like living with a parent who just wants another kid
On July 21 2011 23:13 pvzvt wrote: blade runner ftw
omg thank you, I swear what mustaju kind of seemed familiar but I couldn't quite remember where it was from. Blade Runner was such an interesting movie, and yeah that particular scene was very memorable.
On July 22 2011 01:45 motiust wrote: In a corporate world this is called a organizational wide restructure, basically they want to cut off the dead weight either thru trades or re-contracting (pay re-adjustments) or discontinue contracts (FIRED).
I'd give Flash for Tossgirl. I'd give anything for her and it would raise team morale.
But Bogus is looking great lately, Shuttle has obvious potential, they got play-offs... what the fuck is the problem? Some teams can't win every time. If every team did this as soon as there was a failure there would be no team. I think KeSPA should stop this, intervene somehow.
On July 22 2011 03:55 infinity2k9 wrote: I'd give Flash for Tossgirl. I'd give anything for her and it would raise team morale.
But Bogus is looking great lately, Shuttle has obvious potential, they got play-offs... what the fuck is the problem? Some teams can't win every time. If every team did this as soon as there was a failure there would be no team. I think KeSPA should stop this, intervene somehow.
KeSPA has no control over what STX does to the team that they are sponsoring.
STX could be like, "yo, SouL, if you don't win this proleague or an individual title soon, we're gonna pull sponsorship"
Coach is now like FUUUUUUU
And this is why this is happening. I don't think KeSPA can really do anything but make sure the players don't get screwed if their contracts aren't expired or something.
I hope KT doesn't acquire another player who slumps or sinks into/remains in mediocrity. "hey this bogus guy has potential!" Although to be fair it's a bit early to say anything about Crazy-hydra.
On July 22 2011 04:41 reincremate wrote: I hope KT doesn't acquire another player who slumps or sinks into/remains in mediocrity. "hey this bogus guy has potential!" Although to be fair it's a bit early to say anything about Crazy-hydra.
Crazy Hydra wins at least 50%. The current failure trade is Action imo.
On July 20 2011 12:31 lbmaian wrote: When do player contracts typically expire each year?
August. My understanding is that all Kespa contracts are set to expire in August. iNcontroL said as much on SotG not long ago. There is a measurable amount of paranoia that all the money in SC2 is gonna convert some players at that time.
yo STX, this could be REALLY good for BW scene. This way, we get a whole new team, whole new atmosphere, whole new chemistry between players. Other teams will get something new too. I am actually pretty excited for this news. If everything works out fine, I will actually change my icon back to STX!
Maybe STX could trade some of its core players for some of Khan's rookies, but seriously I don't see anyone willing to go to a team that if necessary puts up their entire player roster for trade.
On July 22 2011 07:30 PH wrote: This is so weird...
I can't imagine STX coming out stronger after this.
They won't. Even if the point of it was to trade their older members like Kal and Calm for newer promising rookies, going with the "fire sale! everything must go!" approach doesn't make you very appealing to trade with. They will probably only get lowball offers. Besides, all the players that don't end up transferring will lose whatever morale they had left since their coach essentially declared he'd be happy to get rid of them all. No matter the outcome of this mess this is going to ruin their fanbase.
On July 22 2011 04:41 reincremate wrote: I hope KT doesn't acquire another player who slumps or sinks into/remains in mediocrity. "hey this bogus guy has potential!" Although to be fair it's a bit early to say anything about Crazy-hydra.
Crazy Hydra wins at least 50%. The current failure trade is Action imo.
Let's be fair: KT picked up Action as a 2nd year player this season, aka a prospect/project. Further, they did it not on a trade but in the eSTRO disbandment draft, just about optimal conditions.
Given all that, even if he hasn't come along quite as fast as KT hoped, Action's 24-26 record this year (minus playoffs) is a huge improvement over any Zerg they've had since Luxury, even if it's a practically identical to his 28-25 record last year (as eSTRO's #2 no less).
I've been thinking about it.. and i think that SKT, for example, isnt in the need of any trade. I see OZ, FOX, MBC and KT benefiting from trades, though, but i dont know if they got anyone of value that would be dispensable to trade for a STX player.
On July 22 2011 09:52 night terrors wrote: I've been thinking about it.. and i think that SKT, for example, isnt in the need of any trade. I see OZ, FOX, MBC and KT benefiting from trades, though, but i dont know if they got anyone of value that would be dispensable to trade for a STX player.
The following assumes STX is at least sort of sane and Bogus is the one player not being traded no matter what.
(SKT: Depending what we all think of Ssak, could maybe use a newer Terran to back up fantasy. Could definitely use an A Zerg, though they don't really need it or seem to care. Potential interest: Classic, Calm, maybe by.hero, but don't need any of them.)
CJ: LOL no. With EffOrt back, two-deep across the board.
KT: No Terran depth unless BarrackS improves a ton, weak Protoss if Violet doesn't come back for the next season. They've invested a lot in their Zergs. Potential interest: Kal, Shuttle, Classic.
Woongjin: Set for Zergs. Solid at Terran. Need a good Protoss badly. Potential interest: Kal, Shuttle.
Samsung KHAN: Solid Protoss and Terran due to the rookie (soon to be 2nd year) depth. Could use another good Zerg - Juni as the #2 is almost as ludicrous as WeMade's old problem of Rock as #1 Protoss. Potential interest: Calm, by.hero.
STX SouL: Has a litter of mediocre Zergs (by.hero, Modesty, hyvaa), may be willing to part with Calm and/or Kal for the right reinforcement. Ought to be looking to build a younger team around Bogus: Most natural trading partners are KHAN, MBC due to Zerg issues.
WeMade FOX: Still has good Terran and Zerg depth. Protoss should be fine assuming Wooki improves and Pure doesn't lose too many games in a row. On the other hand, swapping Midas and/or Major for Kal would make sense for both STX and FOX. Potential interest: Kal.
Hwaseung OZ: Zerg is set. OZ has apparently invested a lot in their newer Protoss players. They do have a definite need on the Terran line, even assuming HiyA comes back to A-class form. Potential interest: Classic.
MBCGame HERO: Sea (and theoretically RuBy) are a decent enough Terran solution. Jaehoon and Tyson is a surprisingly competent Protoss line. HyuN's a definite weak point, as is the fact that they basically only have 5 competent players for next year. Potential deal: Jaehoon or Tyson for at least two of STX's Zerg swarm.
I hope none of the Zs head to SKT. We've seen what happens with the Zs that got bought by SKT.
KT does have a solid Protoss in Stats, but not much depth in the Protoss lineup otherwise. I think they might look at Shuttle/Kal. Wemade needs a Protoss period. Same with Stars.
Oz, I'd like to see pick up Calm. The protoss line is developing, but Sky/sHy are still fairly inexperienced. I'd like to see one of Kal or Shuttle come to Oz. Then again, if Kal has to play more games against JD.....
On July 22 2011 09:52 night terrors wrote: I've been thinking about it.. and i think that SKT, for example, isnt in the need of any trade. I see OZ, FOX, MBC and KT benefiting from trades, though, but i dont know if they got anyone of value that would be dispensable to trade for a STX player.
MBCGame HERO: Sea (and theoretically RuBy) are a decent enough Terran solution. Jaehoon and Tyson is a surprisingly competent Protoss line. HyuN's a definite weak point, as is the fact that they basically only have 5 competent players for next year. Potential deal: Jaehoon or Tyson for at least two of STX's Zerg swarm.
Right, MBC should totally trade one of their reliable protosses for 2 unreliable STX zergs so we can go from 5 competent players to 4 competent players.
STX players need a special training camp to raise moral to allow them better focus, not have this uncertainty over their heads. Maybe STX can get one of CJ's (-_-) players since Effort is returning soon.
On July 22 2011 19:26 Piege wrote: I'd like to see OZ trade PerfectMan for Last. Although Classic would be more favored trade I don't think STX would agree to that.
I think Pman was actually not too bad this season, I would trade Hiya.
On July 22 2011 19:26 Piege wrote: I'd like to see OZ trade PerfectMan for Last. Although Classic would be more favored trade I don't think STX would agree to that.
I think Pman was actually not too bad this season, I would trade Hiya.
Classic in his own class is better than hiya imo though .
On July 22 2011 19:26 Piege wrote: I'd like to see OZ trade PerfectMan for Last. Although Classic would be more favored trade I don't think STX would agree to that.
I think Pman was actually not too bad this season, I would trade Hiya.
Hm....while HiyA was 9-20 in regular PL this season (horrendous knowing what he's capable of), his WL performance was 18-9 or something like that. He's always stepped up his game for WL; he just likes randomly trolling Oz outside of WL. Perfectman, on the other hand, is 10-13 in PL (not too bad), but only 6-8 in WL this year. It's really hard to say which one of the two would be more important for Oz at this point.
In terms of net skill, I never felt that PM could really become anything other than a sniper, while HiyA would be overall really good player if he'd just fix that TvT of his. -_-
I read the original article from the source that cannot be named. The coach said something like some players are likely to perform better in a new environment. I agree because veterans like Calm and Kal who have the skills to get 30+wins with 55%+ winrates did not meet their expectations this season. I think trading players like Kal and Calm would be good for STX and the players provided that its a decent trade.
List of players I want to see on STX that can be realistically acquired: Hiya Free (he is definitely capable of doing better and can really use a new team as well) Wooki Roro Turn Grape Baby (difficult to acquire, but maybe for Calm?) Skyhigh
On July 23 2011 01:19 icystorage wrote: killer for kal
pros: oz having a a better P better P = better practices vP matches experience
cons: lose young developed player loses depth in Z
but idk if its a fair deal on both sides tho
Probably would've seemed like a good deal if Killer was at the 09-10 season level. This season, however, he's proven himself as a pretty solid Zerg, becoming a reasonably solid A-teamer (17-18 in PL, 16-9 in WL), and advancing in Starleagues as well. Kal, on the other hand, is not doing as well in PL (14-21 in PL, 15-11 in WL), and out of both MSL and OSL.
On July 23 2011 01:19 icystorage wrote: killer for kal
pros: oz having a a better P better P = better practices vP matches experience
cons: lose young developed player loses depth in Z
but idk if its a fair deal on both sides tho
Probably would've seemed like a good deal if Killer was at the 09-10 season level. This season, however, he's proven himself as a pretty solid Zerg, becoming a reasonably solid A-teamer (17-18 in PL, 16-9 in WL), and advancing in Starleagues as well. Kal, on the other hand, is not doing as well in PL (14-21 in PL, 15-11 in WL), and out of both MSL and OSL.
(all are speculations below)
but considering the contributions of kal except pl wins, he brings much to the table he could be a much better practice partner his experience could help mentor the younger players and a potential Ace player, having killer and jaedong gives the other team only 1 race to practice for, unlike having kal, they'd prepare for P too (considering kal could go back to his older form, but the new atmosphere and playing jaedong in the house would help)
and for STX's side of the deal they could get a consistent contributor for pl results could make a good core of bogus, shuttle and killer killer could shine more
STX has such a good lineup. I have a feeling the problem might be with the management (hence causing problems with team spirit). I predict whoever gets traded to STX will slump.
On July 22 2011 22:46 Sawamura wrote: seriously stx should hire a sport psychologist for their team it would definitely bring some change >< !
On July 23 2011 01:19 RinesOnRx wrote: I read the original article from the source that cannot be named. The coach said something like some players are likely to perform better in a new environment. I agree because veterans like Calm and Kal who have the skills to get 30+wins with 55%+ winrates did not meet their expectations this season. I think trading players like Kal and Calm would be good for STX and the players provided that its a decent trade.
List of players I want to see on STX that can be realistically acquired: Hiya Free (he is definitely capable of doing better and can really use a new team as well) Wooki Roro Turn Grape Baby (difficult to acquire, but maybe for Calm?) Skyhigh
If CJ trades Skyhigh, I will livestream myself eating my words.
On July 23 2011 01:19 RinesOnRx wrote: I read the original article from the source that cannot be named. The coach said something like some players are likely to perform better in a new environment. I agree because veterans like Calm and Kal who have the skills to get 30+wins with 55%+ winrates did not meet their expectations this season. I think trading players like Kal and Calm would be good for STX and the players provided that its a decent trade.
List of players I want to see on STX that can be realistically acquired: Hiya Free (he is definitely capable of doing better and can really use a new team as well) Wooki Roro Turn Grape Baby (difficult to acquire, but maybe for Calm?) Skyhigh
If CJ trades Skyhigh, I will livestream myself eating my words.
On July 23 2011 01:19 RinesOnRx wrote: I read the original article from the source that cannot be named. The coach said something like some players are likely to perform better in a new environment. I agree because veterans like Calm and Kal who have the skills to get 30+wins with 55%+ winrates did not meet their expectations this season. I think trading players like Kal and Calm would be good for STX and the players provided that its a decent trade.
List of players I want to see on STX that can be realistically acquired: Hiya Free (he is definitely capable of doing better and can really use a new team as well) Wooki Roro Turn Grape Baby (difficult to acquire, but maybe for Calm?) Skyhigh
TurN and Grape wont be possible unless they themselves want to go there. Khan rarely trades with other teams and I don't think January would give up two star rookies.
I blame the head coach of STX. That man seriously has short tempers.
I remember 1-2 years ago when STX lost the STX Master's Cup, he was visibly pissed. Then he pulled that stunt of making the players hide in the resting rooms instead of appearing in front of the audience.
It's sad, but I think STX is a great team ruined by poor leadership. Put Cho in charge and STX will instantly be a better team.
On August 09 2011 19:33 a7choi wrote: has stx made any trades since they put their team up for trade???
they propably haven't, yet. but they put their entire team up for trade becouse they want to trade. logical yes? maybe I didn't understand your question tho.
On July 23 2011 01:19 icystorage wrote: killer for kal
pros: oz having a a better P better P = better practices vP matches experience
cons: lose young developed player loses depth in Z
but idk if its a fair deal on both sides tho
I second this. Oz desperately needs a strong P player
But then, STX already has good Zs.
Oz needs to try to buy good P players no matter what. Anytime just isn't cut out for the job anymore. Hiya is solid enough Terran.
oz has shy,sky and dear coming up, under the guidance of anytime i can see them doing very well next season.
their terran line is their weakness these days.
oz has practice heroes sexy, speed and bee, who help jaedong practice his tvz!
To add my thoughts to this general OZ trade debate going on rather than this particular post. Killer is amazing and coming into his prime trading him away would be a very bad idea. Anytime's training academy of Shy, Sky, and Dear will produce all the Protoss we need. Shy if you haven't been watching is looking very promising.
Terran is a problem hopefully the up coming rookies will bring some hope but I'm not as optimistic as with the toss. If Hiya could return to some even remotely better form he should be able to plug the hole on his own for now. No trade needed in my eyes. As long as there is a next pro-league season I'm pretty hopeful about OZ putting on a much better show.
In the end could we see 0 trades happening? I remember back when Jaedong had FA there was something about how trades were prohibitively expensive or something, still in effect here? Would be kind of nice to see the roster stay the same as an STX fan but not sure how healthy that is in the long term.
On August 11 2011 17:47 ZeaL. wrote: In the end could we see 0 trades happening? I remember back when Jaedong had FA there was something about how trades were prohibitively expensive or something, still in effect here? Would be kind of nice to see the roster stay the same as an STX fan but not sure how healthy that is in the long term.
I don't see more than 1 or 2 players moving from STX, if any at all. The problem with this deal is that they want player for player trades.
When the trades begin? I'd love to see Kal in WeMade!! EDIT: Let's not forgot STX supposedly pays good salaries for most A-teamers. There was a thread about players salaries and many were surprised at how much Calm, Kal and TerranMatchFixer receive each month.
Honestly, Oz already has beast-mode line up looking at 2011 season.. when Killer, Shy get going and Hiya comes back to form, they can 4-0 basically any team out there. More like MBC could use some support
On August 15 2011 18:55 zobz wrote: Is there a chance STX could resign all the players at reduced salary?
Hehe I think you mean re-sign. Pretty big difference between that and "resign" at this stage.
I think that's a possibility, but I don't know what grounds they'd have for salary reduction (apart from STX winning nothing of course).
I dont know. "You play like B-class and you want S-class salary?!" sound like a pretty valid one to me.
Well there's a ton of people who outplay their salary and teams never think that it's valid grounds for salary renegotiation.
Two years ago this time, there was some drama about Jaedong retiring because he wasn't getting paid like a superstar even though he got his team to SPL Finals and his team was pure garbage. Obviously Jaedong was a free agent during that time but he had been underpaid for 1-2 years.
On August 15 2011 22:30 Garaman wrote: I hope Oz picks up some decent players
This. Oz to get Kal/Calm, pretty please?
If Oz picks up Kal, maybe Kal can finally ask Jaedong why he is so much more gosu than him hehe.. Not like its gonna help Kal beat the dong in the individual leagues though
On August 15 2011 22:30 Garaman wrote: I hope Oz picks up some decent players
This. Oz to get Kal/Calm, pretty please?
If Oz picks up Kal, maybe Kal can finally ask Jaedong why he is so much more gosu than him hehe.. Not like its gonna help Kal beat the dong in the individual leagues though
Actually, JD's records against his teammates says otherwise, -_-. He needs to fix that.
On August 15 2011 22:30 Garaman wrote: I hope Oz picks up some decent players
This. Oz to get Kal/Calm, pretty please?
If Oz picks up Kal, maybe Kal can finally ask Jaedong why he is so much more gosu than him hehe.. Not like its gonna help Kal beat the dong in the individual leagues though
Actually, JD's records against his teammates says otherwise, -_-. He needs to fix that.
Haha yeah I know that, but Kal has like this curse against Jaedong... Can't seem to ever overcome the power of the Dong.
On August 21 2011 02:31 Kipsate wrote: Gimme classic, either that or classic should go to KT
just to have a Chinfinite amount of chin on KT.
Actually an other terran on KT would be nice. We can only count on Flash, since forGG is gone, and Barracks/Suny just suck.
Barracks has been p. good these last few months though
Yeah but his play is not impressive or promising, he did not beat any notable names, and finally he's been on KT for quite some time now. If KT could acquire Bogus or Classic, it would be a good support for the terran lineup.
Article on desports says that any trading is likely not going to happen anymore for a variety of reasons - (shanghai finals getting delayed, wemade disbanded, mbc --> music channel) - basically everything is unstable and doing any trades with everything so crazy would be ;;
also article says in the beginning, there were some teams that were interested in some players, but because of everything that happened negotiations were unable to go any deeper and eventually fizzled, and because contract renewals have to be done this week/next week, any actual trading is highly unlikely
On August 23 2011 16:50 Smix wrote: Article on desports says that any trading is likely not going to happen anymore for a variety of reasons - (shanghai finals getting delayed, wemade disbanded, mbc --> music channel) - basically everything is unstable and doing any trades with everything so crazy would be ;;
also article says in the beginning, there were some teams that were interested in some players, but because of everything that happened negotiations were unable to go any deeper and eventually fizzled, and because contract renewals have to be done this week/next week, any actual trading is highly unlikely
On August 23 2011 16:50 Smix wrote: Article on desports says that any trading is likely not going to happen anymore for a variety of reasons - (shanghai finals getting delayed, wemade disbanded, mbc --> music channel) - basically everything is unstable and doing any trades with everything so crazy would be ;;
also article says in the beginning, there were some teams that were interested in some players, but because of everything that happened negotiations were unable to go any deeper and eventually fizzled, and because contract renewals have to be done this week/next week, any actual trading is highly unlikely
EPT
nah, KT gets bogus plz!
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/444.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CgILF.png)
After all our team doesn't acquire players, the players come to us.
