• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:34
CET 13:34
KST 21:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)12Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns Spontaneous hotkey change zerg Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
I would like to say something about StarCraft Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Mechabellum Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1852 users

Best Player Never to Have Won A Starleague - Page 11

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 22 Next All
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 16:39:28
May 15 2011 16:38 GMT
#201
Sea and Midas, definitely.

Iris was pretty sick too for a while, but he was in the shadow of giants.
Crisium
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1618 Posts
May 15 2011 16:56 GMT
#202
I voted ZerO because I think I have seen him perform with the most raw talent in the past couple years but usually fail in the OSL Ro8 or MSL Ro4 (or earlier).

Sea has the 6th most wins of all time, yet has never made it past a Ro8, so it's hard to judge him here.

Jang Bi was the third most successful Protoss in the dragon era and his 3 finals have been mentioned many times, but of course he has fallen since then.

Kal would be my runner up, simply because he has been the most successful Protoss after Bisu and Stork beyond the dragon era (except when free dominated briefly). His win over Flash in the last OSL was telling.

I guess my criteria then is which current player has both done good in the past, and still has a serious shot to win a Starleague. So that's:

1. ZerO
2. Kal

Sea made dual Ro8 a couple seasons ago, but something still doesn't seem right with him. I guess he'd be number 3 though.
Broodwar and Stork forever! List of BW players with most Ro16, Ro8: http://tinyurl.com/BWRo16-Ro8
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
May 15 2011 17:04 GMT
#203
Even though I'm a complete Leta hater, he definitely has the skill-set to win a starleague (especially when considering players like Luxury won... ._.,
Also Zero and Kal are fantastic players, though Zero's zvz has single handily kept him from winning :|
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
Clerseri
Profile Joined June 2010
Australia150 Posts
May 15 2011 17:05 GMT
#204
No Hyuk, no legitimacy in poll.
Fantasy will be the next big thing in SC2.
fruchtzergeis
Profile Joined April 2011
64 Posts
May 15 2011 17:12 GMT
#205
worst player to ever win a starleague.... (P)Rock
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
May 15 2011 17:13 GMT
#206
light
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
bmml
Profile Joined December 2009
United Kingdom962 Posts
May 15 2011 17:28 GMT
#207
I'd go with either Iris or Midas, both stellar terrans of their time and both eclipsed by sAviOr.
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2216 Posts
May 15 2011 17:39 GMT
#208
On May 16 2011 02:12 fruchtzergeis wrote:
worst player to ever win a starleague.... (P)Rock

He beat Jaedong in a Bo5 and Flash in a Bo3. That's pretty baller.
Copymizer
Profile Joined November 2010
Denmark2103 Posts
May 15 2011 17:42 GMT
#209
Sea!
~~Yo man ! MBCGame HERO Fighting !! Holy check !
_Quasar_
Profile Joined October 2010
Russian Federation4405 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 17:45:44
May 15 2011 17:43 GMT
#210
On May 16 2011 01:37 Mirl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 01:33 _Quasar_ wrote:
WTF Sea on 1st place? I vote ZerO... X_X

I think, honestly - Sea hasn't got the potential to win a SL. ZerO has.
The other one who has imho is Light, recently he shows that his TvP is improving, and his TvZ and TvT are already good.

Sea all match ups super solid and higher than 57%.How to you saying he hasnt got potential?

Because he fails miserably vs. big players like Stork, Bisu, Flash and Jaedong. ZerO doesn't (even against Jaedong, while ZvZ is his most shit match-up).

That's why I wrote he has no potential of winning a Starleague, because for this you need to be able to put down at least one of those players in bo5 or bo3, and I don't see how he does that to anyone of TBLS. X_X On the other hand ZerO fucking pwned Stork, going 5-0 in last matches vs. him, and beating him 3-0 in a series... =__=
For the Swarm!!! Jaedong & Neo_G.Soulkey fan.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22258 Posts
May 15 2011 17:52 GMT
#211
Considering most recent forms (recent being past couple years), Kal. Overall in terms of OMFG RAW TALENT with bad luck, Midas.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
ibreakurface
Profile Joined June 2010
United States664 Posts
May 15 2011 17:53 GMT
#212
I'm surprised midas isn't at the top of the list... I guess it's because most people havn't been around long enough to see or hear about how he used to be. A boss. He could have won back in the savior days.

Light is very good I suppose, he needs stronger vP though.
:) I play zerg. FOX AND KT ROLSTER COASTER FAN! Because I love everyone. Except bisu.
funnybananaman
Profile Joined April 2009
United States830 Posts
May 15 2011 17:56 GMT
#213
On May 15 2011 19:54 Legatus Lanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 15 2011 16:28 tedster wrote:
People are absolutely out of their minds if they think anyone but Midas or Iris should be at the top of this poll. These were guys who, for HUGE stretches of time, were considered not just the best at their respective races but top 2 in the game overall. Iris and Midas both were in the "so much better than the rest of the pack" categories during their very extended peaks whereas none of the other players on that list have ever really been so good as to be "way beyond whoever is #3".

Jangbi could make an argument but he was never even really considered the best at his race for any extended period of time - he simply was lucky/skilled enough to make a few finals but certainly didn't deserve to win them. He's close, for sure, but having followed the game when either of the preceding two players were in their primes, it was always a shock when they were knocked out of a league by anyone other than, say, Savior.

Like, I would love to say zerO, because he's a great player and watching him is an amazing treat, but Zero has never been considered #1 or #2 in the game and certainly never #1 zerg with a bullet. Iris and Midas both went through really long periods of time where they were uncontested #1 at their race, not this #3 Terran bullshit that Sea gets a lot of credit for. Being #3-5 Terran for years is an awesome accomplishment but has nothing to do with winning a SL or deserving a title for being, at best, a top10 or top15 player.

So yeah. Iris and Midas both pass the Yellow test; best at their race for a long window, only lost to the very best player/eventually winner at the time, no seriously weak matchups, could give the reigning Bonjwa a run for his money.


"Vote according to WHATEVER criteria you want. "

Yeah srsly i voted for zero because he has glasses, why are ppl discussing this
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 17:59:36
May 15 2011 17:57 GMT
#214
On May 16 2011 02:39 reincremate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 02:12 fruchtzergeis wrote:
worst player to ever win a starleague.... (P)Rock

He beat Jaedong in a Bo5 and Flash in a Bo3. That's pretty baller.


But...but...he never won a starleague...

On May 16 2011 02:43 _Quasar_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 01:37 Mirl wrote:
On May 16 2011 01:33 _Quasar_ wrote:
WTF Sea on 1st place? I vote ZerO... X_X

I think, honestly - Sea hasn't got the potential to win a SL. ZerO has.
The other one who has imho is Light, recently he shows that his TvP is improving, and his TvZ and TvT are already good.

Sea all match ups super solid and higher than 57%.How to you saying he hasnt got potential?

Because he fails miserably vs. big players like Stork, Bisu, Flash and Jaedong. ZerO doesn't (even against Jaedong, while ZvZ is his most shit match-up).

That's why I wrote he has no potential of winning a Starleague, because for this you need to be able to put down at least one of those players in bo5 or bo3, and I don't see how he does that to anyone of TBLS. X_X On the other hand ZerO fucking pwned Stork, going 5-0 in last matches vs. him, and beating him 3-0 in a series... =__=


You do know that before Stork was known for his insanely good PvT, he was infamous for his PvZ? He couldn't win a game even if his life depended on it. And he still isn't THAT good in PvZ (Although he did ALMOST beat JD in bo5), although there is no denying he is a great player
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
nath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1788 Posts
May 15 2011 18:01 GMT
#215
if more people voting knew about bw before 2010 midas, iris would have more votes
Founder of Flow Enterprises, LLC http://flow-enterprises.com/
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2216 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-15 18:08:28
May 15 2011 18:07 GMT
#216
On May 16 2011 02:57 Mortician wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 02:39 reincremate wrote:
On May 16 2011 02:12 fruchtzergeis wrote:
worst player to ever win a starleague.... (P)Rock

He beat Jaedong in a Bo5 and Flash in a Bo3. That's pretty baller.


But...but...he never won a starleague...


Yo man, OGN StarChallenge is srs bznz. It's like winning an OSL almost.
luckybeni2
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany1065 Posts
May 15 2011 18:10 GMT
#217
I'd say Iris and Sea. Maybe Kal and Midas, too. Iris came in second twice and was cut off another shot (where he was the clear favorite) by the protoss and terran graveyard maps of the zerg era. Sea was consistently one of the top players for such a long time but never had any star league accomplishments sadly. Midas is an oldschool topdog but not long ago had very good results in PL and SL. Kal always falls against some top guys and I think he will as always come back soon and dominate most A class guys but I don't see him ever really being the top dog.
Jangbi and best had very short times where they were very good but have fallen so fast and hard that I can't really say they are top prospects. Zero's dominant times are just too short and he has his zvz achilles heel but maybe if he keeps it up for another year or so I may consider him worthy of a spot. Baby has to be a joke that he gets mentioned. In his best times he was considered a guy the top dogs have to watch out but really those were the times when most others were slumping a little and he has played only about half as many games as the guys I mentioned before.
Those are my thoughts^^ feel free to agree or disagree
triangle
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3803 Posts
May 15 2011 18:18 GMT
#218
Iris should have won 2 starleagues... in his prime he was just so good.
Also known as waterfall / w4terfall
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
May 15 2011 18:20 GMT
#219
On May 16 2011 03:18 triangle wrote:
Iris should have won 2 starleagues... in his prime he was just so good.


Well, Savior and GGplay were amazing as well, the only starleague he should have won is the one he got cheesed to death by his teammate, kwanro
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
FakePlasticLove
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States357 Posts
May 15 2011 20:22 GMT
#220
On May 16 2011 03:20 Mortician wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2011 03:18 triangle wrote:
Iris should have won 2 starleagues... in his prime he was just so good.


Well, Savior and GGplay were amazing as well, the only starleague he should have won is the one he got cheesed to death by his teammate, kwanro

Nah that belonged to Calm. But Iris should have made finals for a great TvZ final instead of Kwanro vs. Calm
All walls are great if the roof doesn't fall
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 22 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RongYI Cup
11:00
Qualifier 2
WardiTV747
OGKoka 197
Rex124
BRAT_OK 82
3DClanTV 49
LiquipediaDiscussion
Replay Cast
09:00
WardiTV Mondays #68
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko221
OGKoka 197
Rex 124
BRAT_OK 82
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4127
Hyuk 1961
Horang2 1374
Snow 467
Larva 463
actioN 443
BeSt 419
ZerO 402
Mini 402
EffOrt 353
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 261
Light 248
firebathero 210
Rush 122
Barracks 116
Pusan 110
Soma 105
Zeus 99
Sharp 82
Leta 78
Mind 75
Killer 60
Aegong 50
sorry 45
JYJ 44
Movie 41
910 35
Free 33
Mong 32
HiyA 24
JulyZerg 22
Terrorterran 22
soO 21
zelot 17
Noble 13
Sacsri 13
Bale 8
Icarus 3
Dota 2
ODPixel273
XcaliburYe136
NeuroSwarm80
canceldota76
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss934
x6flipin816
allub305
Super Smash Bros
Westballz20
Other Games
singsing1624
B2W.Neo1363
Gorgc1150
Pyrionflax420
crisheroes299
Sick137
ZerO(Twitch)9
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4104
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1234
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 45
• naamasc221
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt694
• TFBlade377
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 27m
Monday Night Weeklies
4h 57m
WardiTV Invitational
23h 27m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 23h
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
OSC
3 days
All Star Teams
4 days
INnoVation vs soO
sOs vs Scarlett
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
All Star Teams
5 days
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
OSC
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-11
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.