No wonder this was done by a bot, I've never seen goons do what they are told so often.

It would be nice if the bots were built for decision making and not for how much you can micro. I admit that the mutalisk micro is good, but he got beat by a pure dragoon timing push. It would be nice if the bots had more than 1 strategy that they used against EVERYTHING (i.e. overmind bot). Once the overmind bot gets into muta mode, it no longer builds anything but mutalisk, which I think defeats the point of the bot. It should be able to make decisions, such as go pure hydra if the opponent is going mass dragoon with no storm/reaver. Thus, the real problem isn't how much APM an AI has, but whats its doing with its apm.

hacklebeast

United States5090 Posts

May 09 2011 19:49 GMT

#22

I am always amased by the bots. A couple of times I thought about starting my own, but I don't have the time, I'm no where near good enough. I do think that it would be fun to be part of a team though.

Thanks for keeping info about the bots coming. I think that this is the first time ive seen the overmind lose to another bot.

xxpack09

United States2160 Posts

May 09 2011 20:01 GMT

#23

On May 10 2011 03:38 bITt.mAN wrote:
Ah yes another thing I thought about:

I heard someone say that in SC2 (ah yes it was the "tricks with pathing" video) if you click more times your unit won't move as quickly to it's destination. My heart, died. I had always felt so pro spam-clicking on the same spot, and it was painful to hear that wasn't only useless, it was actually detrimental.

Is this true with SC:BW unit AI?

And another thing, heyoo Mr. djsherman OP, you sound capable, could you please make an AI that teaches marines to micro versus lurkers (that plus microing the heals of medics to get their health up JUST to the right level to no die in one hit). I'd really love to see a perfect, and I mean perfect marine split versus like 5 lurkers. My life would be complete

Yes, but the effect depends on the exact unit.

Most units though will take inefficient paths unless you spam click them along the way (I think this is only true for ground units though, not sure)

Mortality

United States4790 Posts

May 09 2011 20:17 GMT

#24

I started watching the rep. Overmind bot's ling micro is actually kind of crappy. I was surprised. Jaedong's ling control is vastly superior.

I must say that APM over 9000 is ridiculous...

wei2coolman

United States60033 Posts

May 09 2011 20:37 GMT

#25

Clearly, the Protoss Bot's special tactiks worked, even w/o the 3k apm.

Simplistik

2005 Posts

May 09 2011 20:47 GMT

#26

The Overmind did some strange things. Having an extractor and not mining gas is something that should be fixed. It's also quite stubborn with its Mutas, but I guess that is the main selling point of that particular bot. Maybe it could learn to rest injured Mutas...

Ideas

United States8097 Posts

May 09 2011 20:49 GMT

#27

OP, were you the guy that wrote this gamasutra article the other day?

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BenWeber/20110505/7565/APM_is_not_everything_in_StarCraft.php

xarthaz

1704 Posts

May 09 2011 21:45 GMT

#28

On May 10 2011 03:06 Morfildur wrote:
Nah, it just shows that with perfect play Protoss are OP in BW :p

Just kidding

A lot actually comes down to decision making and how the APM are used. For example in the first minute or so i see the overlord changing direction 10 times in 2 seconds, which is clearly useless. It seems that the Overmind Bot just has horrible decision making and strategy, while EISBot is quite good.
No amount of micro can let you win with bad decision making.

Zerg has the highest theoretical skill cap though, dont they. Because of the fast and high numbers of units, there is so much potential to gain from micro if it is done perfectly. July also has said this.

djsherman

United States140 Posts

May 09 2011 22:57 GMT

#29

On May 10 2011 05:49 Ideas wrote:
OP, were you the guy that wrote this gamasutra article the other day?

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BenWeber/20110505/7565/APM_is_not_everything_in_StarCraft.php

Yes, but I didn't get much of a response and figured TL would be a better forum.

Release

United States4397 Posts

May 10 2011 00:17 GMT

#30

The APM is OVER 35000!!!
yet a few spores could probably have dealth with dealt
same with turret

foxmeep

Australia2333 Posts

May 10 2011 00:24 GMT

#31

On May 10 2011 09:17 Release wrote:
The APM is OVER 35000!!!
yet a few spores could probably have dealth with dealt
same with turret

It's OVER NINE THOUSAND!!

(peak APM)

+ Show Spoiler +

Eywa-

Canada4876 Posts

May 10 2011 00:30 GMT

#32

Doesn't prove anything about apm, you can make two bots, one with 100 and the other 200000000 apm. If the lower apm bot is made to hard counter the 200000000 apm bot, it really doesn't matter since bots can't think. But if you could get a bot to legitematly think/react perfectly with unlimited apm, it would be impossible to beat. If someone could control each unit individually all at the same time, not sure how you could beat them.