EPThttp://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/34075/Interview_Making_The_Fun_Meant_Taking_Out_The_Fun_In_StarCraft_II.php
What are your opinions on this article? Im not sure what to think yet.
Dustin Browder Interview April 2011
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Miwyfe
England101 Posts
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/34075/Interview_Making_The_Fun_Meant_Taking_Out_The_Fun_In_StarCraft_II.php What are your opinions on this article? Im not sure what to think yet. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19391 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=198452 | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
The concept of SC2 is quite clear, and it does not differ that much from all other casual games that are being pumped every single day. The game is easier for understanding and playing, its fun and much better that any other rts on the market, but in comparison to old BW it lacks almost in every key aspect we would like it to be. SC2 should be a better graphic version of BW, but it would be silly to expect that. I guess I'll stick to an opinion, that it was particularly made for being widely sold and then only to be played, like Mr.Browder says, on a competition level. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
"Vincent Goossens 22 Apr 2011 at 1:10 pm PST SC1 and BW have had hundreds of patches before it became good and it took years. And only then it became popular with the Koreans. Don't forget that. A good game takes time, and it has to be shaped while it's in the open." | ||
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lbmaian
United States689 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:19 Legatus Lanius wrote: if he cared so much about the 'sport' aspect he wouldve just stuck to broodwar and ditched this sc2 crap. this is all about cashing in on bw's success Um...duh? That's what sequels are for. You could also say that BW was cashing in on SC1's success :p | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:31 lbmaian wrote: Um...duh? That's what sequels are for. You could also say that BW was cashing in on SC1's success :p or balancing it out | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5872 Posts
Then there's the lack of highground advantage, defender's advantage and positional play. The lack of micro is also pretty apparent, and so is the hardcounter gameplay, very un-StarCraft-like. Not to mention the ball vs. ball gameplay and horrible maps/their ladder mappool policy, as well as the fact that they deliberately refuse to fix those aspects of gameplay that can be fixed (like micro, look up Project Micro on TL) and patch interesting micro tricks because they're conflicting with their design policy... Instead of trying to understand something as deep as BW on their own, they should've consulted some of the more knowledgable players, who have shown that their understanding of what's made BW so great and what's sc2 lacking is superior to that of blizzard designers (I'm talking about the articles on positional gameplay, spells, etc. we've had on TL). All in all, the game is OK (TvZ and TvT are actually on par with BW MUs), but it could've been so much better. I think Browder failed because he tried to appease two drastically different groups - competitive and casual players - by trying to make sc2 play the same way for both of them. He should've taken a different approach - instead of getting rid of any non-obvious features (like Muta stacking, patrol micro, mineral jumping, Void Ray micro, positional play, etc.), he should've embraced them. Casual players would be unaware of them (unless blizzard made some tutorials) and they'd keep playing the game "the simple way," while competitive players would be able to go deeper and explore other aspects of the game. | ||
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Legatus Lanius
2135 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:22 ShadeR wrote: Found this gem comment in the source article lol. "Vincent Goossens 22 Apr 2011 at 1:10 pm PST SC1 and BW have had hundreds of patches before it became good and it took years. And only then it became popular with the Koreans. Don't forget that. A good game takes time, and it has to be shaped while it's in the open." This is factually wrong, it didn't have hundreds of patches O.o. | ||
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
So his conclusion was to get out defilers/lurkers/reavers etc and to replace them with boring units. Makes sense. Honestly, I think they did not spend enough time watching bw vods. I think that in the end, Browder watched 2 Boxer compilation, and understood that bw success was due on it being "competitive" and fast paced. That's a bit short-sighted. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5872 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:36 corumjhaelen wrote: There's not a lot of content in this interview. The idea is not to get all the fun out from the game, it's to remain both fun and competitive. So his conclusion was to get out defilers/lurkers/reavers etc and to replace them with boring units. Makes sense. Honestly, I think they did not spend enough time watching bw vods. I think that in the end, Browder watched 2 Boxer compilation, and understood that bw success was due on it being "competitive" and fast paced. That's a bit short-sighted. THIS. I don't think he actually watched more than a dozen BW VODs. You cannot seriously analyze BW and not delve the progaming scene/games, but that seems to be what he tried to do - analyze BW completely detached from the progaming aspect of it. | ||
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lbmaian
United States689 Posts
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orgolove
Vatican City State1650 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:48 orgolove wrote: SC2 was doomed from the start when they hired the guy responsible for the farce that is the current Command and Conquer to be their designer. Uh, Dustin Browder only worked on the C&C series up until C&C Generals and Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle Earth. He left EA after that. He had no hand in the "current" C&C games such as C&C3, RA3, and C&C4. He was at Blizzard when those games were being developed. Plus, I think his work on RA2 and Generals was pretty decent considering that I enjoyed those games quite a bit. IMO, RA2 is the funnest RTS I've ever played even though it's not as deep as BW. In addition, this thread is an exact duplicate of another thread from the SC2 General section that cites the exact same article. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215309 | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:22 ShadeR wrote: Found this gem comment in the source article lol. "Vincent Goossens 22 Apr 2011 at 1:10 pm PST SC1 and BW have had hundreds of patches before it became good and it took years. And only then it became popular with the Koreans. Don't forget that. A good game takes time, and it has to be shaped while it's in the open." Nazgul's little brother ? | ||
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LML
Germany1794 Posts
On April 25 2011 21:22 ShadeR wrote: Found this gem comment in the source article lol. "Vincent Goossens 22 Apr 2011 at 1:10 pm PST SC1 and BW have had hundreds of patches before it became good and it took years. And only then it became popular with the Koreans. Don't forget that. A good game takes time, and it has to be shaped while it's in the open." but the time was a totally different. Back in 1998 companies fought to bring out RTS games with aspects that other games didn't have to make them get ahead. Most games were only played until another company came out with a better setup for the control panel and unit control, balancing and especially competetive play wasn't the first thing that came to mind back then. Nowadays Blizzard makes it differently (unlike EA for example who pump out one bad game after the other for sells) and seeing the effort they put into this game and the experience they had, they should already need alot less time to balance everything out. | ||
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erin[go]bragh
United States815 Posts
I mean holy shit, I tried. I watched the TSL yesterday because I wanted to support TL, but I was practically bored to tears. Ball vs. Ball fights and nothing but attack move? Am I supposed to cheer when a player selects his army hot key, presses "T", and spams the screen? I wouldn't be so hard on SC2 if BW wasn't such an amazing game. If the game was just marketed as a casual version of Broodwar that would be more fitting, but Blizzard is constantly pushing this e-sport crap and I personally find it insulting. It's like the kiddy leagues of BW. Simply put, Broodwar fans deserve better IMO. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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