EPTHelp me get good at Brood War - Page 3
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/maps Play one map only until you've learned the basic geography of it. The map preview images in TLPD will help you get an idea of them before playing. Strategies: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Strategy Use the tabs to navigate to the matchup that you want to practice. For instance, PvZ: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/PvZ_Strategy Watch a lot of games. There are many BW threads concerning games of the year, best games, etc. so just by entertaining yourself you'll get a basic idea of strategies, but beyond that you'll need to watch high level replays. If you have a tutor watch replays with him. TL's replay tab on the bottom left still offers BW replays. | ||
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Magus
Canada450 Posts
 List of Unit and Building SizesOf course, you still have to test if it seals against the cliffs on the map, but this helps SO MUCH. | ||
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-Exalt-
United States972 Posts
thanks for all the help btw. I got good at sc2 by watching a ton of it so that's probably a good way to start. Thanks for all the links to builds / maps too. | ||
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Ero-Sennin
United States756 Posts
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NeoSunny
United States31 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Hesmyrr
Canada5776 Posts
On April 02 2011 10:10 FunTime wrote: My advice to you is to not bother playing bw. Broodwar is way too hard of a game for sc2 players. There is no building grid, no multi building select, and you can only put 12 units on 1 hotkey. The mechanics in bw are too hard for sc2 players Just when I think the prejudice toward low post members are beginning to weaken, random people pops in and murks up their reputation all over again  Edit: Or at minimum, let's please not reopen the rift between BW and SC2 community again. If you are sincere, please understand this post could be interpreted wrongly. | ||
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NeoSunny
United States31 Posts
On April 02 2011 10:14 Hesmyrr wrote: Just when I think the prejudice toward low post members are beginning to weaken, random people pops in and murks up their reputation all over again Edit: Or at minimum, let's please not reopen the rift between BW and SC2 community again. If you are sincere, please understand this post could be interpreted wrongly. So because i have a low post count i know nothing about the game? Thanks for the tip Mr. Post-Elitist. But if you think I dont know what im talking about we can play some bw right now, and hopefully i can show you that its a harder game | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
On April 02 2011 02:50 EternaL_9 wrote: I hope this is thread worthy, but here it goes. I have never played Brood War. Ever. My only RTS experience is with Starcraft 2, I started in beta and I'm in masters now. I've been very, very interested in brood war though. It's like this mysterious legend of a game that all the pros talk about a lot, but one that I never got to experience. So I downloaded the game, and in my first game I noticed, obviously, how much harder the mechanics were (simply moving your army, macrong) but a HUGE issue with how bad I am at it is I don't know SHIT about the maps. And to make it worse, they are all dark. I literally have no idea what is around every corner. Hell, I don't even know where my opponents base is. How did you guys learn these maps? Obviously you played on them for years.. but is there any way I can see them without it being fully dark? What are some easy builds / openers I can do? For example, in starcraft 2 you could tell me to go 3 gate robo into 2 base colossus. That's pretty simple and I know what I should generally look to do in that game. Judging from what artosis says, I could probably just DT drop every game I play and do pretty well! (not to say I want to play protoss, I would play any race but i'm guessing protoss is the most noob friendly) What are the most standard unit comps? I know it varies, but for another example Stalker / colossus is a pretty standard unit comp. Roach Hydra.. Tank / Marine / Medivac. Sorry if this is too general - but I literally don't know. maps are fairly symmetrical, you'll get used to this quickly i think you should learn the game too, in single player/computer/with practice partners or friends before going into iccup because iccup is quite brutal to new people. just make sure you know what all the units can do all the tech etc. a friend who knows the game can tell you what does what etc and look at your game on the fly, so even more helpful. "/join op teamliquid" on iccup and you might find somebody willing to teach you the game. other posters are fairly accurate. also watching vods of brood war matches will teach you a bit about the game (well at least what units are used in what way etc) | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
On April 02 2011 10:10 FunTime wrote: My advice to you is to not bother playing bw. Broodwar is way too hard of a game for sc2 players. There is no building grid, no multi building select, and you can only put 12 units on 1 hotkey. The mechanics in bw are too hard for sc2 players User was warned for this post You call yourself a SKT fan? Shame on you. It's funny: when SC was released more than a decade ago, NOBODY complained it was too hard. And it isn't -- everything works as you expect to you like a good analog interface (as in a good grand piano, for example). Of course, it IS difficult to win against other players, at this point, if you are starting off. But that is a different issue altogether. | ||
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Ero-Sennin
United States756 Posts
Try it if you want, whatever, it's your life. Edited: No one complained about BW being hard, really? Boxer switched from P to T because scarb mis-rate, and spawning pool cost 150 minerals. Know how hard it was to play against 4 pools that came that much more early? | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On April 02 2011 10:19 FunTime wrote: So because i have a low post count i know nothing about the game? Thanks for the tip Mr. Post-Elitist. But if you think I dont know what im talking about we can play some bw right now, and hopefully i can show you that its a harder game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd06 Careful stranger, this is TL you're posting on. No one doubts BW is a harder game, but post count/join date are important here. Maybe not that guy since he's post sc2 join-date, but one day you might talk back to the wrong guy. *cough*rekrul*cough* | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
On April 02 2011 10:45 Ero-Sennin wrote: It's true though, what FunTime said. If you're good at SC2 and you want to experience BW that's fine, but it's like going from the NBA to MLB. Maybe a couple of abilities will transfer, but good luck being good at it. Try it if you want, whatever, it's your life. Edited: No one complained about BW being hard, really? Boxer switched from P to T because scarb mis-rate, and spawning pool cost 150 minerals. Know how hard it was to play against 4 pools that came that much more early? That is more about a balance thing rather than difficulty. | ||
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quirinus
Croatia2489 Posts
units: a few marines maybe 1-2 vult at the start, then tank/goliath + dropships for mobility and focusing your power. lots of turrets. Pros use tank/vulture, but I'd suggest avoiding that as it's hard to play with. late game you might see BCs as siege line breakers or avoiders. tvt is mostly about positioning and getting the gas, not really attacking, but rather holding positions. dropping at key locations in key times, trying to catch the opponent off-guard. TvP: I personally like FD opening as it's less prone to early pressure and offers a faster expo, but siege expand is fine too. Here you make vult/tank, later some goliath (and 1-2 vessel) if toss is getting arbiters, or a lot of goliaths if he's getting carriers. It's about either pushing out and attacking at good timings to abuse some hole in protoss' play or just push a bit out so you can take a new expansion. In the meantime you harras with vultures, and lay mines to limit toss' movement/protect your territory - then turtle to a critical point (upgrades or 200/200, or toss getting carriers or overexpanding) and attack. TvZ: This can be played either using mech or bio (mm). I suggest bio - 2rax expand (not the oov variation. get cc before the gas/accademy). It's safe and gives you a good map presence and protection against ling allins early + it's safer vs 2 hatch muta that's so popular these days. Bio units: marine medic (maybe a few firebats), then vessels and maybe some tanks (depending on your style and the map). later vultures with mines are also good at times to protect some positions. in the very late game, when you get more gasses (expansions) you switch to mass tanks supported by some mm, and maybe a few BCs. 1-2 dropships for drops are very often seen too. Mech units: Tanks/goliaths are the backbone. More hydras->more tanks, more mutas->more goliaths. If he's going mass mutas->vessels (or maybe valkyries). Vultures are useful all around for mines and harrasing, but less so than in tvp. with mech I'd suggest the Fantasy opening. Here you try to first survive, then slow the zergs 2nd expo, and prevent the 3rd, while keeping his army away from your base. ZvZ: Probably overpool opening. units: ling, muta... that's pretty much it. on rare ocasions you can see hive tech -> defiler plague maybe some devourers. or instead of mutaling you can see hydra openings, but those are very very rare. lurks can appear as a counter to hydra, or in hive tech with swarm vs lings. Here it's mostly about low economy/drone and lots of units+micro. sacrificing economy for a bit earlier tech or more units is usually preferable since it gives the map control to you and allows you to pressure your opponent and keep that pressure. ZvT: 3 hatch muta is probably the best opening for a new player. just try not to lose mutas, even if you do minimal damage. units vs bio: lings->mutas (rarely mutaling) -> lurkerling (+ some scourges vs vessels and drops) -> while at 3 gas defiler lurkerling (+scourge) -> 4 gas you can switch to ultraling maybe with a few defilers + sourge and maybe 1-2 lurks, or you can continue defiler lurkerling, but it's pretty hard. later the terran may switch to a more mech like composition, then you add hydras etc. Here you try to contain the terran as close to his base as you can, and get with swarms to his base if you can, or otherwise just protect your expos and expand to 3->4 bases, while engaging in smart battles or holding positions. when you get 4 bases, you can be more offensive. units vs mech: there's a few ways of playing it, but it's mostly: low tanks -> more hydra, low goliaths -> more mutas. You can go the swarm way and use MASS ling/hydra/muta with lots of expos, or less expos and faster tech and more pressure on the terran. There are some players who use lurkers early, but I don't really like that, as a smart terran will rape them, as mech units are basically a hard counter to lurks. they mostly only work as a surprise or delay tactic in early/mid game. in the late game they are pretty viable as position holders with swarm. Here you abuse the mobility of the terran and expand more while harrasing with mutas and backstabbing his base(s) with hydras. Attack him only when cornered or if he's out of position (or if you have a very good tactical/strategical advantage), otherwise AVOID. try to delay his expansions. you also abuse the fact that terrans can't easily replace lost units, while zerg can, so if you gain an advantage in battle, you send wave after wave of units, trying to get advantage of his temporary army deficiency before he regroups. ZvP: vs 1 base toss 2 gate zealots: 2 hatches 1-2 sunkens, lings to hold off the rush, then add drones and another hatch at your nat, make a wall with hydra den+hatches, protecting the sunks. drone up to a decent amount. then you can go either mass hydra and some lings, or lurker contain his expo. (mutas can work sometimes too) vs 1 base tech: 3 hatch (3rd at natural), drone up, get a few hydras to defend vs corsair, then drone a bit more, then mass units. (at least I play so) vs 2 base fe: I'd probably suggest 4 hatch hydra (3 bases), hydra speed then lurkers (and MASS contain). then hydra range then 4 bases->hive cracklingslurks defense ->ultraling defiler offense. but most would disagree with me and say 3hatch spire (scourge)->5 hatch hydra->mutas->lurks->ultraling with defilers maybe (and later lurks). here it's mostly about denying the toss expos while having more expos than him and staying alive (protecting your expos) until hive tech kicks in. there are various timings where there's a shift in power so at times you have to be offensive and other times you have to defend - a mesure of a good zvp player is that he's making a feint of attacking while he actually wants to defend, thus delaying toss' expos. or actively denying expos while he's under pressure by protoss. you try to abuse your faster unit speed and good dps of zerglings by attacking more fronts at once in the late game (swarm helps greatly). getting sleepy now, I might continue this tomorrow, don't know if it's useful/correct or if it gives any good insight, sorry if it isn't. use liquipedia for build orders (most are ok, some are wrong/missing though) | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
ZvT i recommend going 2hatch or 3hatch lurkers every game, cause it requires less control and you can play a defensive game. I don't play BW much 'seriously' but when i've played people around my level at D/D+ i can beat people with heavy abuse of lurkers on ramps, sunkens up on ramps and defensive strategies until ultras are out. Then when i've tried muta i lose cause it's much harder. TvZ if they go muta, push out early with groups of MnM and just pressure really heavily cause it's really hard for them to handle. If they go lurker play more passive with tanks/vessels and drops and let them basically waste units into you, just don't let them easily take too many gas bases. PvT you can play standard and beat players technically better than you cause honestly at low levels its P > T. Expand to +1 base than they have, defend vulture harass and crush them as soon as they push out with zealot/goon/arbiter. No low level players can push effectively enough. If they slow push just abuse it with recalls, if they push all at once use stasis. ZvP i suck at this matchup despite it supposedly being easier for Z. Build a lot of hydras and cracklings in general i suppose. PvZ i suck the other way around as well somehow, mainly cause the Z's i face seem to always do some kind of all-in or annoying as shit lurker contain. Just abuse speedlots a lot since they are hard to deal with, don't even let them macro up at all. Don't try cute stuff like sair/reaver it's too hard. Infact i actually like going 2gate instead of Forge FE which is the total standard cause weaker players have a harder time dealing with it, and it gives you map control. TvP this is just really hard for new players, i always try some early push like 2fact or at least something from 2base cause it gets way too hard to keep up later on, it's just insane. Mirrors i won't bother saying about, i'd say get better at the other stuff with a race before playing the mirrors. This is just my opinions from my experiences as a low level player, without resorting to very cheesy and unhelpful-to-learning strategies, but at the same time giving you a chance to actually win; Cause going into the game and trying strategies like 2hatch muta will make you lose repeatedly probably and thats no fun at all. | ||
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fatfail
United States386 Posts
On April 02 2011 10:19 FunTime wrote: So because i have a low post count i know nothing about the game? Thanks for the tip Mr. Post-Elitist. But if you think I dont know what im talking about we can play some bw right now, and hopefully i can show you that its a harder game We have no doubt brood war mechanics are tricker to master than sc2 mechanics. But you're making generalizations that are uninformed and offend people, so you should just stop. Thanks. | ||
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
On April 02 2011 02:50 EternaL_9 wrote: I hope this is thread worthy, but here it goes. I have never played Brood War. Ever. My only RTS experience is with Starcraft 2, I started in beta and I'm in masters now. I've been very, very interested in brood war though. It's like this mysterious legend of a game that all the pros talk about a lot, but one that I never got to experience. So I downloaded the game, and in my first game I noticed, obviously, how much harder the mechanics were (simply moving your army, macrong) but a HUGE issue with how bad I am at it is I don't know SHIT about the maps. And to make it worse, they are all dark. I literally have no idea what is around every corner. Hell, I don't even know where my opponents base is. How did you guys learn these maps? Obviously you played on them for years.. but is there any way I can see them without it being fully dark? What are some easy builds / openers I can do? For example, in starcraft 2 you could tell me to go 3 gate robo into 2 base colossus. That's pretty simple and I know what I should generally look to do in that game. Judging from what artosis says, I could probably just DT drop every game I play and do pretty well! (not to say I want to play protoss, I would play any race but i'm guessing protoss is the most noob friendly) What are the most standard unit comps? I know it varies, but for another example Stalker / colossus is a pretty standard unit comp. Roach Hydra.. Tank / Marine / Medivac. Sorry if this is too general - but I literally don't know. This game is nothing like SC2, there are no unit damage bonuses and there ARE cliff advantages. Yes, your composition of units does matter, but not to the extent like in sc2. For example, dragoons are known to counter vultures, but if you're good with spidermines, vultures can poop on dragoons all day. This never happens in sc2 because of the damage bonuses like I said before some things you might want to know: *Normal attacking units deal full damage to everything (marines, zealots, zerglings) *Explosive damamge deals full damage to large units, 3/4 damage to medium sized, and 50% to small. (Hydralisk, Siege tanks, wraiths.. etc) *Concussive damage deals full damage to small units, 1/2 damage to medium, and 1/4 to large sized units. (ghosts, vultures, etc) you can look up alot more information on liquidpedia | ||
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