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On March 31 2011 00:37 rigelq wrote:
Jaedong not 5 stars? He completely changed how zvz is played, he helped build modern zvp and his his 2 hatch zvt changed that match up completely. I think he should totally be 5
On March 31 2011 00:50 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:
I'm not sure JD should be rated only 4 stars, given that he basically brought about modern ZvZ, brought out the 3-hatch spire -> 5 hatch hydra build for ZvP, and helped to set trends in ZvT as well (2 hatch muta, anyone?)
For EffOrt, I guess he brought the 4 base turtle style in ZvP?
Cause Flash > JD :D
Though, has JD contributed as much as/more than Flash?
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if flash > jd is the issue the solution is to put flash at 6 stars not jaedong at 4
: 3
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I have an opinion on the matter, like Oov, sAviOr and Flash being the main ones, but importantly enough Midas deserves a rank.
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On March 31 2011 00:59 corumjhaelen wrote:
I have an opinion on the matter, like Oov, sAviOr and Flash being the main ones, but importantly enough Midas deserves a rank.
You're probably right, even I heard of him. Should he be added to the 3 star group?
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EDIT: How did I miss Nal_rA. Also moved a few players around.
My small two cents:
Five Star (yes they are in order):
BoxeR
iloveoov
Jaedong
FlaSh (tentative)
Bisu
NaDa
sAviOr
Four Star:
Nal_rA
Stork
FanTaSy
Stork's influence on the PvT MU should not be overlooked, and he tends to bust out some odd rush builds on the random occasion. He's a very influential P player and shouldn't be that low personally. I'm not sure if he should be in the Five Star group or not since he's always playing second fiddle to Bisu, even though he's been handing Bisu's ass to him for a while in recent memory.
Shouldn't Kal be somewhere on this list too?
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On March 31 2011 01:10 HitoriTomoyo wrote:
My small two cents:
Five Star (yes they are in order):
BoxeR
iloveoov
FlaSh (tentative, REALLY tentative)
Bisu
sAviOr
Jaedong
NaDa
Four Star:
Stork
FanTaSy
Stork's influence on the PvT MU should not be overlooked, and he tends to bust out some odd rush builds on the random occasion. He's a very influential P player and shouldn't be that low personally. I'm not sure if he should be in the Five Star group or not since he's always playing second fiddle to Bisu, even though he's been handing Bisu's ass to him for a while in recent memory.
Shouldn't Kal be somewhere on this list too?
Pfft, you can't be tentative about Flash when you have JD and Bisu listed there as well.
Put Nal_rA under 4star as well.
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On March 31 2011 01:15 buhhy wrote:
Pfft, you can't be tentative about Flash when you have JD and Bisu listed there as well.
Put Nal_rA under 4star as well.
I can't believe I missed Nal_rA.
I'm only tentative about FlaSh's position over Bisu and Jaedong; in terms of overall influence, yes FlaSh is currently more influential than Bisu or Jaedong, but I'm considering the overall influence the players have had over the years.
Jaedong and Bisu's influence on the metagame is clear and solid, but beyond innovating/perfecting the FlaSh build, I can't think of anything that FlaSh has accomplished to revolutionize/change the metagame on the level that Jaedong and Bisu have. Same goes for FlaSh and sAviOr (though I'm not sure if I should place sAviOr higher than FlaSh since all I know is that sAviOr popularized 3 Hatch Muta vT and that was pretty much it, though I remember him being a beast in ZvP but I don't think he ever bought anything innovative to that MU).
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I changed my personal list once again. I completely removed the four-star-group, moving Jaedong, Nal_rA and YellOw to the 5 star group. Added Midas and Kal because I know very little about SC:BW but know them both, there's probably a reason for that.
My new personal list (people inside a group not in order):
+ Show Spoiler +5 Stars - The Very Best
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
3 Stars - The Very Good But Slightly Less Influential Ones
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal)
Of course, this is only the list I'm going to use, I'm not capable of using everyone's feedback. Very interesting read so far, though.
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GARIMTO and Stork should be 5 star imo. Edit: Also maybe Grrrr.
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On March 31 2011 01:23 KaveX wrote:I changed my personal list once again. I completely removed the four-star-group, moving Jaedong, Nal_rA and YellOw to the 5 star group. Added Midas and Kal because I know very little about SC:BW but know them both, there's probably a reason for that. My new personal list: + Show Spoiler +5 Stars - The Very Best
Lim Yo-hwan (BoxeR)
Lee Yun-yeol (NaDa)
Park Sung-joon (July)
Lee Young-Ho (Flash)
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu)
Ma Jae-yoon (sAviOr)
Choi Yeon-Sung (iloveoov)
Lee Jae-Dong (Jaedong)
Kang Min (Nal_rA)
Hong Jin-Ho (YellOw)
3 Stars - The Very Good But Slightly Less Influential Ones
Park Jung Suk (Reach)
Park Yong-Wook (Kingdom)
Song Byung-gu (Stork)
Oh Yeong Jong (AnyTime)
Kim Dong-Soo (Garimto)
Seo Ji-hoon (XellOs)
Kim Jung Woo (EffOrt)
Jung Myung Hoon (Fantasy)
Lee Jae Hoon (fOru)
Park Tae Min (GoRush)
Jun Sang Wook (Midas)
Kim Ku Hyun (Kal) Of course, this is only the list I'm going to use, I'm not capable of using everyone's feedback. Very interesting read so far, though.
The list you have is a list of who's famous/popular but not necessarily a list of who's influential.
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Poll: Who of these players is the least influential/successful?Kal (13) 54% AnyTime (2) 8% XellOs (2) 8% EffOrt (2) 8% fOru (2) 8% Kingdom (1) 4% GoRush (1) 4% Midas (1) 4% Reach (0) 0% Stork (0) 0% Garimto (0) 0% Fantasy (0) 0% 24 total votes Your vote: Who of these players is the least influential/successful? (Vote): Reach
(Vote): Kingdom
(Vote): Stork
(Vote): AnyTime
(Vote): Garimto
(Vote): XellOs
(Vote): EffOrt
(Vote): Fantasy
(Vote): fOru
(Vote): GoRush
(Vote): Midas
(Vote): Kal
This would be interesting to know for the purpose of my list (I'm aiming to have 20 people in it). Thanks!
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On March 31 2011 01:27 Ryo wrote:
The list you have is a list of who's famous/popular but not necessarily a list of who's influential.
That's fine with me. As I subsequently clarified in my OP, 'influential' means something else than revolutionizing a matchup for me. I think 'Who should be mentioned in a TV documentary about the history of SC:BW progaming?' really describes it best.
Also, foreigners are a different topic. Of course, I haven't forgotten people like Grrrr... and ElkY.
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On March 31 2011 01:18 HitoriTomoyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 01:15 buhhy wrote:
Pfft, you can't be tentative about Flash when you have JD and Bisu listed there as well.
Put Nal_rA under 4star as well. I can't believe I missed Nal_rA. I'm only tentative about FlaSh's position over Bisu and Jaedong; in terms of overall influence, yes FlaSh is currently more influential than Bisu or Jaedong, but I'm considering the overall influence the players have had over the years. Jaedong and Bisu's influence on the metagame is clear and solid, but beyond innovating/perfecting the FlaSh build, I can't think of anything that FlaSh has accomplished to revolutionize/change the metagame on the level that Jaedong and Bisu have. Same goes for FlaSh and sAviOr (though I'm not sure if I should place sAviOr higher than FlaSh since all I know is that sAviOr popularized 3 Hatch Muta vT and that was pretty much it, though I remember him being a beast in ZvP but I don't think he ever bought anything innovative to that MU).
What.
The person that has been responsible for being at the forefront of trends in TvZ and TvP the past couple of years is Flash. Flash has been the most influential player in the game for years now. As for Savior ZvT is still played with the same general ideas and retains the same rough shape as Savior and his contemporaries left it years ago.
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no offense but this thread is really bad. Few on TL are qualified to know which programers made the biggest differences. This is just basically a list of the most famous players with no explanation to their impact on the scene.
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He introduced a lot of new things, but most of the lasting trends were ones that Flash solidified.
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On March 31 2011 01:45 puppykiller wrote:
fanta made huuuuuge changes to tvz and tvp
You mean iloveoov made huuuuuuge changes to TvZ and TvP and Fantasy used his strategies.
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On March 31 2011 01:48 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2011 01:45 puppykiller wrote:
fanta made huuuuuge changes to tvz and tvp You mean iloveoov made huuuuuuge changes to TvZ and TvP and Fantasy used his strategies.
Just cuase random people on TL like to spam oov's name in the comments section to every artical that has to do with fantasy doesn't mean they know anything about what goes on in the skt1 house.
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there seems to be a disconnect between the title an the premise. If you want "players who dominated everything and made a name for themselves" than yes, putting every player with 3 or more titles in the 5 star group is a good start. However, when I think influential, I think "who would have made broodwar radically different had they not played?" And the answer is only two, boxer and oov. oov from the "revolutionizing multiple match ups over and over even after retirement" stand point, and boxer from the "there would be no pro BW without me" stand point.
You already have them in the highest bracket, but they are so far more influential than anyone else, that there should be no one else by them.
If you want to classify it as 20 people who would be in a documentary, then I would go with:
the 11 who have won multiple starleauges
the longevity players (yellow, reach, gorush, stork)
grrrr
kim carrier
KeSPA (or if you want a person, the person who organized it/was its first leader)
Maynard
last spot... either another longevity player, or you could argue shark just because of how muta micro is now in nearly every zerg game
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United States10328 Posts
Where are Grrr.... and H.O.T.? I suspect they were influential. And Iris the berserker?
And then some dudes like Goodfriend, FBH (influential for a different reason), ChRh, GGPlay, Chojja, Jju, Casy, Pusan? Not sure how "influential" most of these were, just good players I've heard of lol. Pusan was a "neo-3-king" though, and Chojja was top 2 Zergs in the world for a while.
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On March 31 2011 01:10 HitoriTomoyo wrote:
EDIT: How did I miss Nal_rA. Also moved a few players around.
My small two cents:
Five Star (yes they are in order):
BoxeR
iloveoov
Jaedong
FlaSh (tentative)
Bisu
NaDa
sAviOr
Four Star:
Nal_rA
Stork
FanTaSy
Stork's influence on the PvT MU should not be overlooked, and he tends to bust out some odd rush builds on the random occasion. He's a very influential P player and shouldn't be that low personally. I'm not sure if he should be in the Five Star group or not since he's always playing second fiddle to Bisu, even though he's been handing Bisu's ass to him for a while in recent memory.
Shouldn't Kal be somewhere on this list too?
OMG I love you man!!!
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EPT
