• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:59
CEST 21:59
KST 04:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1694 users

[Q] The most influential progamers of all time? - Page 4

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
March 30 2011 19:31 GMT
#61
Shark is the greatest behind-the-scenes player of all time. He invented Muta-stacking and Zerg-simcity back when every Zerg was getting raped by 4Gate2Archon. He also helped cohost Hyungjoon, I think Shark deserves an honorary 5-stars
On March 31 2011 03:24 SkelA wrote:
I thought that the "Bisu build pvz" was actually a build that was first used by Daezang... Bisu has never used anything original by himself at all. Everything that he is using hes been copying from other players all the time.

The only thing that he is good at is using the builds to the maximum potential with his mechanics and great multitasking. Stork was and still is more influental as a Protoss than Bisu could ever be.

sounds like a bitter Stork fan to me lol.. Bisu's pioneering extend past Sair-DT (Daezang used a different iteration anyways), he's the one to establish opening Stargate after FE as absolute standard for scouting, and I'm not sure about this but I think Bisu was among the first Protosses to favor going for a mass-Dragoon-Templar midgame. Bisu also recently brought the +1 Sair/Speedlot to the table, which flipped the balance toward Protoss for a while and is now the standard strategy to-go.

Stork deserves 5-stars imo though, he's done a lot of pioneering in PvT (Arbiters, counter to Rax-FE, Carriers) and made some clever one-off builds in PvZ.

Kal I'd give 3-stars because he makes a lot of clever non-standard builds, popularized sair-stacking and has really really good micro
Writerptrk
ShadeR
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7535 Posts
March 30 2011 19:53 GMT
#62
Many Stork fans are bitter. I certainly am.

Stork just broke Boxer's record of total OSL qualifications. I"m just sayin =S
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
March 30 2011 20:01 GMT
#63
I don't think this list is complete without Guillaume Patry. Call it novelty because he's a foreigner who won an OSL, or be old enough to remember all the things he brought to this game, he's a name that comes to everyone's mind when they think of professional BroodWar's beginnings.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Sprungjeezy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1313 Posts
March 30 2011 20:06 GMT
#64
I hadn't followed BW progaming enough to know who's responsible for what, but I would think FBH did something worth 3 stars?
Louuster
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada2869 Posts
March 30 2011 20:24 GMT
#65
On March 31 2011 05:06 Sprungjeezy wrote:
I hadn't followed BW progaming enough to know who's responsible for what, but I would think FBH did something worth 3 stars?


A dance-around-saviors-booth ceremony?
Kim Taek Yong fighting~
bearbuddy
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3442 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 20:33:59
March 30 2011 20:32 GMT
#66
Ra should be 5. Name one PvZ build that doesn't start with forge FE and isn't a cheese.

Never mind. Didn't see that new list.
Kaal
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Djibouti2516 Posts
March 30 2011 20:34 GMT
#67
I Want everyone in this thread to rewind back to 2001-2003 when a zerg player one amazing, epic zerg player named Ju Jin Chul, AKA (Z)Side, basically invented Macro in starcraft, he was the first person that, in my opinion, really understood the need for macro and tried to do it. Unfortunately for him, he was in the era of the first foreigners, Nazgul and Grr..., and the top form of players like Nada, Boxer, Nal_Ra, Garimto, etc, so he was really underlooked, but I don't think he gets enough credit.
Sharp-eYe
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada642 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 21:12:34
March 30 2011 21:02 GMT
#68
my addition to your list would be IntoTheRainbow, cuz his shuttle reaver micro in BW was AMAZING, just go youtube it. I think he should be under your 3 star list (only because he got kicked out of SKT cuz he skipped a team meeting to go see a beyonce concert). I also think that your 3 star list should be 4 stars, cuz those players are extremely good.
Are you truly so blinded by your vaunted religion, that you can't see the fall ahead of you? - Zeratul III AKA WikidSik ingame (anygame)
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
March 30 2011 21:28 GMT
#69
I have a suggestion.
How about adding short captions next to each progamer stating what they did under a spoiler bar?
Much better compilation for new BW fans and those who just need a freshened up history lesson

If the posters felt like it, even some VODs that showcase the new build/strategy they are famous/infamous for

Certainly liquapedia is our friend but hey, what's a compilation for?
▲ ▲ ▲
Chef
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
10810 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 21:32:58
March 30 2011 21:30 GMT
#70
On March 31 2011 05:34 Kaal wrote:
I Want everyone in this thread to rewind back to 2001-2003 when a zerg player one amazing, epic zerg player named Ju Jin Chul, AKA (Z)Side, basically invented Macro in starcraft, he was the first person that, in my opinion, really understood the need for macro and tried to do it. Unfortunately for him, he was in the era of the first foreigners, Nazgul and Grr..., and the top form of players like Nada, Boxer, Nal_Ra, Garimto, etc, so he was really underlooked, but I don't think he gets enough credit.

I don't think you can put a player no one has even heard of in a list of most influential players. Old Zerg strategy vs Terran used to be expand everywhere and hope some of them survive, but it isn't really what became macro today. Games continued to be about strategy/tactics/micro for a long time after him, so you could almost say he had zero influence, even if he was a precursor to that kind of thinking.
LEGEND!! LEGEND!!
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
March 30 2011 21:31 GMT
#71
Not too mention liquapedia is outdated =/
▲ ▲ ▲
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
March 30 2011 21:38 GMT
#72
giyom should be on the list. he pissed off koreans so much that they had to just get better

one guy i'd like to mention is gundam, known for "bamboo rush", it consisted of 1 or 2 vultures, couple marines and a tank. intotherain is another worth mentioning.
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
renzy
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada781 Posts
March 30 2011 21:44 GMT
#73
Honestly, Bisu has done so much for the PvZ Matchup. Protoss before Bisu's forge expansion build and its variations were so desperate, they even attempted strategies such as hiding cannons in behind naturals... =.= see Nal_ra vs Saviour. Protoss before Bisu were used to snipe terrans mostly, since PvZ was so hard back then. Bisu changed that, and that's why he's got so many protoss fans, lol, and its not just because of his looks.
Bisu is the man
Ethelis
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2396 Posts
March 30 2011 21:48 GMT
#74
Midas and Fantasy should definitely be more than 3 stars. It seems to me like not enough credit has been given to them for the TvZ late-game mech switch.
Disabled gamer - Diamond 3 (LoL) D+ Rank scrublord on BW. Bisu doesnt need DTs, He uses probes. just ask Flash.
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 21:54:56
March 30 2011 21:54 GMT
#75
Pretty solid list I have to say. I'd put BoxeR in a different league though (maybe 777 stars? ). Sure he wasn't the most skilled progamer looking back but his influence is simply unrivalled.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
thestool91
Profile Joined August 2007
672 Posts
March 30 2011 21:56 GMT
#76
You guys forgot Shark. Not the best player, but he did INVENT the stack muta micro. Without it, muta micro would be nowhere where it is today
the dreamer, mantoss, storm zerg, the cowboy, the spark terran, the ultimate weapon...what more can i say? GO KTF
ibreakurface
Profile Joined June 2010
United States664 Posts
March 30 2011 21:56 GMT
#77
I'm surprised of how little credit midas is getting... Tanks anyone?
:) I play zerg. FOX AND KT ROLSTER COASTER FAN! Because I love everyone. Except bisu.
thestool91
Profile Joined August 2007
672 Posts
March 30 2011 21:58 GMT
#78
On March 31 2011 05:34 Kaal wrote:
I Want everyone in this thread to rewind back to 2001-2003 when a zerg player one amazing, epic zerg player named Ju Jin Chul, AKA (Z)Side, basically invented Macro in starcraft, he was the first person that, in my opinion, really understood the need for macro and tried to do it. Unfortunately for him, he was in the era of the first foreigners, Nazgul and Grr..., and the top form of players like Nada, Boxer, Nal_Ra, Garimto, etc, so he was really underlooked, but I don't think he gets enough credit.


True. I mean, he is not called the "Father of Hatcheries" nor "Neverending Hatcheries" for nothing lol
the dreamer, mantoss, storm zerg, the cowboy, the spark terran, the ultimate weapon...what more can i say? GO KTF
SiCkO_
Profile Joined September 2010
United States481 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-30 22:04:04
March 30 2011 22:03 GMT
#79
hmm

5 Stars:
iloveoov - He still influences the scene to this day on with Fantasy and the rest of the SKT lineup

BoxeR - BoxeR defined what e-sports was and is, as well as showing how pushing the envelope works

NaDa - NaDa really refined the way people approach the game, through both preparation and a macro, decision - based style that almost always favors the better player

sAviOr - he started the dynasty of Zergs in Entus and many of his concepts are still used today in ZvT

4 Stars:
Nal_rA - The "Holy Wars" with sAviOr really defined his influence, oh so close to the top, but not quite there. His influence however, with forge openings, remains potent

H-O-T Forever - ViOlet and Stats have proved his ability to shape the game as a coach

Grrr... - Inspiring millions of foreign starcraft fans is reason enough for his inclusion

YellOw - His rivalry with BoxeR still dominates esports memories to this day

Bisu - PvZ Revolution

Jaedong - He has really taken sAviOr's work and has refined it immensely

FlaSh - The nuances in his play shape modern Brood War today





SKT Toss line Fighting! | Bisu, BeSt, By.Sun! |
white_horse
Profile Joined July 2010
1019 Posts
March 30 2011 22:21 GMT
#80
most influential of all time?

its obviously boxer. You can argue about who comes after him in terms of influence but the impact boxer had in e-sports in Korea is monumental. he made starcraft exciting to watch, he attracted so many fans, he made e-sports grow in korea.

Ask any young progamer or practice partner of this generation why they went into progaming and a lot of them will say it was because they saw boxer on TV when they were little.
Translator
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 465
UpATreeSC 238
SteadfastSC 231
IndyStarCraft 150
NeuroSwarm 62
ForJumy 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17412
Dewaltoss 158
Larva 74
Aegong 33
scan(afreeca) 26
Sexy 22
Dota 2
Fuzer 182
Counter-Strike
flusha165
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King47
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu456
Other Games
summit1g2557
FrodaN1778
Sick1621
fl0m985
Beastyqt535
mouzStarbuck227
ToD175
C9.Mang0145
Trikslyr55
MindelVK15
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta25
• Reevou 6
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4551
• WagamamaTV796
• Noizen47
League of Legends
• Doublelift2123
• TFBlade861
Other Games
• imaqtpie756
• Shiphtur186
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
14h 2m
Zoun vs Classic
Map Test Tournament
15h 2m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 7h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 12h
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Reynor vs Cure
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.