With the second best proleague results so far, our protoss Bonjwa appears to have broken out of his slump. He lead SK Telecom during the playoffs all the way onto the finals with ace victories over Snow and Pure. However, he has severly underperformed in individual leagues. While the other three has gotten to the semifinals, Bisu's farthest runs include being 0-2ed by Sea in Bigfile MSL and failing his group in Korean Air OSL Season 2. His OSL dream has once again got crushed by Shine. His PvZ however remains legendary with 73.53% winnrate this year.
The Dinotoss had yet another good year. He has had one of the more consistent run and never slumped too much. He recently reached the semifinals of Korean Air OSL Season 2, beating the likes of Fantasy, Kal, and Sea and ultimately, losing to Jaedong 2-3, in a very close series. He has currently secured a spot in round of 8 in the OSL. His PvT is still godly, nearly untouchable by anyone not named God Young Ho. Of Jaedong's only 6 losses to Protoss this year, 4 of those losses come Stork, including the epic game on Matchpoint that stopped Jaedong's monster ZvP streak.
Throughout the entire year except for one month, Kal was the highest ranked Protoss player by KeSPA (free was #1 in October). He reached the Ro4 of Korean Air OSL Season 1 where he lost to EffOrt 0-3. He also placed third in WCG 2010, beating Bisu and EffOrt, while taking a Game off Flash. The gap between Kal and S-ranks appears to have decreased, with Kal recently beating Flash in the group stages. Kal had a busy year, with more games played than any other Protoss. Although losing a lot, he seems to have clutch wins in individual leagues and ace matches when things matter.
The most underrated, overlooked Protoss hero. It doesn't help that he's currently in a huge slump, and just exited out of both OSL and MSL. However, if you take a look at the whole year, Free makes a strong contender for the award. Free reached two semifinals this year both ended by Flash who is undefeated in Bo5 since Nate MSL. His Hanaa Datoo MSL run includes wins over Sea and Hiya. While his OSL royal road run included a 9 win streak against Calm, Kal, Stork, Fantasy, ZerO. His weakest MU, PvP showed great results this year with wins over the other three candidates and a sole loss to Kal.
In all honesty, I wouldn't really consider Kal/Free that much because they are more than anything placeholders for protoss #1 when Bisu and Stork are slumping. And while Bisu and Stork are close, I'd give it to Bisu, partly because of fanboyism and another part because he honestly looks a bit stronger. Bisu may have lost in the OSL, but Stork lost in the MSL last season in quite a horrible fashion. And in that IEF game, Bisu did beat Stork in the Bo3. Stork does seem to be a bit more consistent, but I'd say Bisu is a bit better.
How is Bisu getting so many votes? Please go back and look at his accomplishments in 2010, he's been on a tear in PL recently, but overall he hasn't done anything worth mentioning. Has he even been in the BoX stages of a Starleague a single time during the entire year?
Just checked, no he hasn't (unless you count the pre-groupstage Bo3's in OSL). How is he getting so many votes? O_o
It's painfully obvious that Stork was the best Protoss this year. Bisu did some cool stuff vs Zerg at the very end but he still got beaten out of OSL by Shine and before that he was totally awful. Remember when everyone was auto-picking Bisu for their anti-teams? Stork, on the other hand, is on a sick streak (Bisu is too) and was good throughout all of 2010. I'd even say Bisu is behind Kal and Free because they both put up solid results all year in PL and both made the ro4 in individual leagues.
Even though Bisu was the most solid in PvZ, he did not achieve enough this year to be qualified to be Protoss of the year. Free was kind of on and off during the year and was never "S-class". Kal and Stork are neck and neck imo.
Stork/Free should win this poll but because bisu has 10000x more fans, he'll win it. Not that Bisu was bad, its just aside from his slightly higher win rate, he got boned in individual leagues all year.
Bisu definitely wasn't the best P this year and i'm a skt/bisu fan here lol. I'd say Stork or Kal, but imo Stork has had the more consistent year overall. and it's hard to consider free seriously right now considering his huge slump recently, but even he probably was better this entire year compared to bisu, who's had a great last couple of months in pl and that's about it.
So many bisu fanboys, this poll shouldn't even consider him, yet he is winning by now.
Of course Kal was the best Protoss player this year, don't forget WCG. He has developped his own style of play and improved a lot, winning quite a few important matches.
On December 22 2010 06:49 darktreb wrote: A case can be made for any of Stork/Kal/Free but Bisu is definitely 4th, are you guys voting Bisu kidding me??
On December 22 2010 06:47 danl9rm wrote: Why is everyone saying Bisu will only win because he has 'da fanboys? He has the highest win percentage out of all the contenders for the entire year.
First off all he's like 1% better than Stork, and secondly winning percentage is actually quite irrelevant. Bisu never made it past the groupstage of a single Starleague during the entire year (all the three others made it to the Ro4 at least once, Kal and Free did it twice I believe and Stork was like 1 cannon from beating JD in a Bo5). Bisu was in a slump for most of the year, and a nice run in PL at the end is not nearly enough to justify giving him a Best Toss award.
Bisu was so wildly inconsistent this year I don't really feel like "best of the year" is appropriate to give to him. I'll call him best right now, I think, but despite the winning percentage I think the utter and repeated fails in the Starleagues has to cost him.
Kal I don't know what to make of. Sometimes he's the best player in the world, and other times he loses ace matches apparently for the hell of it. (And sometimes he beats Bisu because he can.) He's just not consistent enough (even if he would have won a Starleague (finally) if he hadn't had to play Flash) to really feel like the best this year.
free confuses me. He's my favorite player ever, but sometimes he just plays dumb - and right now his proleague play and results are so very very average.
So, Stork might get it only his overall results haven't been entirely spectacular, even if he's one of basically two Protoss capable of facing Jaedong on a decently even field. I guess his PL round one results have me upset more than anything though. I still think I'd call him the best of the year, but it's like this:
I voted for Bisu because I'm a fangirl! But the truth is, Kal/Free deserves it more. Maybe Kal should win because of his WCG. Note: IEF is invitational unlike WCG.
Bisu ofcourse. He has always been one of the top protosses and that is also why he has the most accomplishments. check the winrate also. over 60% is awesome for any progamer.
lol at everyone saying "stork was one cannon away from beating JD in bo5". Well why didn't he build that cannon then? becouse he didn't play good enough. I could as well say that Bisu has 100% win percentage vs JD this year. 1-0 ^^
On December 22 2010 07:05 Piste wrote: Bisu ofcourse. He has always been one of the top protosses and that is also why he has the most accomplishments. check the winrate also. over 60% is awesome for any progamer.
He does not however have the most accomplishments this year, and that is what this is about.
only because stork, albeit not a superior record was far more consistent than bisu. bisu >kal,free because he carried skt in the latter stages of last season as well as this season.
Rofl at the guys using winrate as a means to say Bisu was the best toss of the year. It's pretty easy to have a good winrate when you completely miss the late stages of every starleague by failing out early and sticking purely to PL. It's absolutely insane to think Bisu has been even as good as any of the tosses on that list and anyone voting for Bisu is taking a really weak reason and stretching it to suit their world view.
You aren't the best toss of the year when you haven't even made it out of group stages yet.
On December 22 2010 07:05 Piste wrote: Bisu ofcourse. He has always been one of the top protosses and that is also why he has the most accomplishments. check the winrate also. over 60% is awesome for any progamer.
lol at everyone saying "stork was one cannon away from beating JD in bo5". Well why didn't he build that cannon then? becouse he didn't play good enough. I could as well say that Bisu has 100% win percentage vs JD this year. 1-0 ^^
Bisu was 2 BoX series and a group stage win away from even getting the goddamn HONOR to play Flash or Jaedong like Free, Stork and Kal have. That 1 cannon difference in BEATING Jaedong is a lot better than never getting there.
Damn PL padded winrate. I WISH Bisu were doing as good as people in this forum apparently thinks he is.
I just don't understand how bisu is winning this. The poll is neither best player among the four or who's playing best at the moment (and I'm not sure it's him), it's best protoss of the year, and I just don't see what he has done to deserve that. I call fanboy and/or failure to read. I'd say Stork, but it's not obvious at all.
I voted for Bisu but Stork was the best of this year of course.
Kal / Free don't deserve to be in that list : The best protoss is the protoss that can make the Zerg and Terran fans cry and rage, and not be the punching bag for their favorite Zerg and Terran (Kal and Free are punching bags for Jaedong and Flash, they are there just so that the Zerg and Terran fanboys can make fun of Protoss when they 0-3 against Jaedong and Flash). The like of them is not deserved to be the best Protoss.
And lol at all those Zerg and Terran fanboys trying to bring down Bisu. That's why he (and Stork) is the best, he is a threat to your favorite players, he makes you fear him haha. He is not like Kal and Free who are just toys for Flash and Jaedong. This is a Protoss poll, let's the Protoss decide it (Bisu or Stork for sure), Terran and Zerg don't have place here.
It's pretty tight between Stork Free and Kal. Bisu is last and there should be no debate on that, this isn't best protoss player of the last third of the year in PL only.
I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
On December 22 2010 07:37 kamikami wrote: I voted for Bisu but Stork was the best of this year of course.
Kal / Free don't deserve to be in that list : The best protoss is the protoss that can make the Zerg and Terran fans cry and rage, and not be the punching bag for their favorite Zerg and Terran (Kal and Free are punching bags for Jaedong and Flash, they are there just so that the Zerg and Terran fanboys can make fun of Protoss when they 0-3 against Jaedong and Flash). The like of them is not deserved to be the best Protoss.
And lol at all those Zerg and Terran fanboys trying to bring down Bisu. That's why he (and Stork) is the best, he is a threat to your favorite players, he makes you fear him haha. He is not like Kal and Free who are just toys for Flash and Jaedong. This is a Protoss poll, let's the Protoss decide it (Bisu or Stork for sure), Terran and Zerg don't have place here.
This is just hilarious; so Bisu is better because he doesn't even get to the stages where he might get to play vs JD and Flash, like Free and Kal did multiple times?
As much of a Stork fanboy as I am, it's plain wrong that he and Bisu are running away with this. free's OSL run was simply amazing and his 09-10 Proleague performance was superb. Out of all of them, this was free's year to shine and he did.
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Yes, Ro16 is indeed amazing.
Not my point. The point is everyone says he never made it past the group stages, which he did.
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Yes, Ro16 is indeed amazing.
Not my point. The point is everyone says he never made it past the group stages, which he did.
Which still makes extremely little difference and isn't really noteworthy at all.
Who voted for the "another player" option and didn't specify? lol
I think that none of this players deserves the title for the best Protoss player of the year. All of these four players had a good run all this year, but they did also have a downs this year.
But if I had to chose it would be whether free or Stork.
free is really sucking at the moment, but he made it into the semis in both leagues plus he was the best Protoss player in October
Even if he has not the better win/lose ratio he did surprise us this year.
In the other side we have Stork. He has been pretty consistent this year. Winning games when it matters, and dropping out of leagues very unluckily.
I am not doubting of the skill of Kal or Bisu. In fact, I like them a lot, well I love Bisu in a non homo way. They are pretty good, in fact I found it weird they both didn't get a good run in starleagues. Kal being eliminated shamelessly in personal leagues and Bisu not even qualifying past the RO16.
Those are my two choices. But if I have to chose between free and Stork, it would be Stork because he is the dinotoss everybody loves. Actually, I think he has the best potential out of the four, if he focused in the game more (stop playing cellphone games for god sake)
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Yes, Ro16 is indeed amazing.
Not my point. The point is everyone says he never made it past the group stages, which he did.
Which still makes extremely little difference and isn't really noteworthy at all.
Perhaps you should check your facts better though before you say he hasn't made it out of any groups. Also, the answer here really depends on how you interpret the question: Most accomplished, scariest, or most consistent? For those 3, the answer is Stork, Bisu, Stork IMO.
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Yes, Ro16 is indeed amazing.
Not my point. The point is everyone says he never made it past the group stages, which he did.
Which still makes extremely little difference and isn't really noteworthy at all.
Perhaps you should check your facts better though before you say he hasn't made it out of any groups. Also, the answer here really depends on how you interpret the question: Most accomplished, scariest, or most consistent? For those 3, the answer is Stork, Bisu, Stork IMO.
Scariest would be at one point in time (Bisu was the scariest at the high of his win streak at the end of the year, but back in April...), so it's clearly not that. Though you could say that Bisu performance in individual league this year is pretty scarry I guess.
On December 22 2010 06:36 zerious wrote: 1. Stork 2. Kal 3. Free 4. Bisu
This.
There is no contest here about who is 1st ... Stork easy.
Kal is the 2nd best toss overall. He is consistent as ever but now I consider him an S class player beating players like Flash, Bisu which he couldnt do before.
Free had a good year with great performance in starleagues but was slumping here and there..
Its funny how Bisu is leading while he gets owned in every stearleague this year and not to mention he almost rarely wins S class players anymore(1 win against JD ). He even lost quite a few times against Kal lately. Ok you are the best pvz player of all time.. thats about it. But you still get owned twice in BOX against Shine.
4th place only because he delivers in Proleague ..... but players like Sea,Leta deliver in Proleague too and you cant see anyone calling them the best terran huh?
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Okay do you want me to rephrase it to "Hasn't gotten past the Ro16" then? He's still enormously below kal stork and free. You're playing semantics trying to defend Bisu and everyone who votes for him is, without reason, demeaning all three tosses who have been better all year.
I like Bisu, I usually root for him when he plays but as mentioned before his performance in individual leagues has been poor. I would say Stork because of his consistency. Bisu has been tearing it up in proleague but that in no way makes one the best protoss. Kal/free while fantastic players in their own right and have played well just in my opinion don't match up to Stork. Stork got my vote.
This is really interesting... Blinded Bisu fanboys vs the rest of the world but the result is still even lol. We cannot underestimate the number of blinded Bisu fanboys in this world.
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Okay do you want me to rephrase it to "Hasn't gotten past the Ro16" then? He's still enormously below kal stork and free. You're playing semantics trying to defend Bisu and everyone who votes for him is, without reason, demeaning all three tosses who have been better all year.
My point is not that Bisu belongs at #1, it's that you should check your facts. In truth, if you said Stork I wouldn't disagree, although the other tosses I really wouldn't consider too much since they can't beat S class players.. It's either Bisu or Stork, though it's probably Stork.
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Okay do you want me to rephrase it to "Hasn't gotten past the Ro16" then? He's still enormously below kal stork and free. You're playing semantics trying to defend Bisu and everyone who votes for him is, without reason, demeaning all three tosses who have been better all year.
My point is not that Bisu belongs at #1, it's that you should check your facts. In truth, if you said Stork I wouldn't disagree, although the other tosses I really wouldn't consider too much since they can't beat S class players.. It's either Bisu or Stork, though it's probably Stork.
free has a winning record against Jaedong, and Kal has been beating other top players recently so, uh, what?
If this poll had been put up at the beginning of R2 I would have said free would've been the easy choice, because he was beating good players in every matchup all year(no, he wasn't really beating flash, but no one else was really beating him this year either). Funny how fast it can change.
For the entire year I feel you can make a compelling argument for either Stork or Free. But this seems like it will devolve into a poll of who has more fan-boys between Stork and Bisu.
On December 22 2010 08:25 Elyvilon wrote: free has a winning record against Jaedong, and Kal has been beating other top players recently so, uh, what?
Free actually is 8-10 vs JD if you include non-ranked, as I believe you should. But his wins are from long ago; his PvZ skill faded since. Nowadays he loses multiple games to Hydra. And his record against Flash is kinda awful. Kal, on the other hand, is usually JD's punching bag. He's won games off of JD/Flash, but he never really managed to beat Flash or JD despite taking a game off them in a Bo3. If this was just like 2 games in which this happened, I'd say he could still compete with them, but this has been a recurring trend.
man i cant believe how much protoss players hate kal. he has been the most successful protoss in individual leagues this year. NATE MSL semifinals (loses to JD), korean air S1 semifinals (loses to effort), bigfile MSL Ro16(loses to JD), Korean Air S2 Ro16(loses to free/fantasy), WCG Korea 3rd place(loses to flash).
Free comes in 2nd with semifinal appearances in the Hana Daetoo Securities MSL and Korean Air S2 OSL (both loses to flash). It's really the 3rd place in WCG that pushes kal over free in terms of achievements.
Stork's only significant individual league was the Korean Air S2 OSL where he made the semis losing to JD. he never did ANYTHING in the MSL all year and only made the Ro16 of the Korean Air S1 OSL.
bisu hasnt done shit in individual leagues this year.
I dont get protoss fans. I think they are just mad that stork and bisu havent been as good this year as they expect and are taking their anger out on kal instead of stork/bisu. kal has clearly trumped those 2 this year and was clearly the best protoss of 2010. sorry that he cant beat JD/flash, but neither can bisu or stork (or free).
Bisu has beeen basically irrelevant all year. His winrate is inflated because he doesn't play too many of his team's ace matches and he never gets far enough to play the good opponents in individual leagues. In the last year, Bisu has played Flash just one time, whereas Stork has 3 times, Kal8 times, and free 9 times.
imo:
1. Stork 2. Kal 3. Free 4. Bisu
1-3 can be arguably switched around, but there's no way bisu should be anywhere up there. Hell, even Shine has been as good in proleague as bisu and far better in individual leagues.
On December 22 2010 08:25 Elyvilon wrote: free has a winning record against Jaedong, and Kal has been beating other top players recently so, uh, what?
Free actually is 8-10 vs JD if you include non-ranked, as I believe you should. But his wins are from long ago; his PvZ skill faded since. Nowadays he loses multiple games to Hydra. And his record against Flash is kinda awful. Kal, on the other hand, is usually JD's punching bag. He's won games off of JD/Flash, but he never really managed to beat Flash or JD despite taking a game off them in a Bo3. If this was just like 2 games in which this happened, I'd say he could still compete with them, but this has been a recurring trend.
free has been godawful in December, but he's been awful in every matchup; if we look from January 1 to November 31, he was 68% in PvZ. Kal has been Jaedong(and other top ZvPer)'s punching bag, yeah, but since he's actually beaten Flash lately I have a small amount of hope that he can do the same with PvZ.
Rooting for Kal mostly, followed closely by Stork: both players have accomplished the most for their race compared to the other two:
-Stork's OSL run up until the intense semi's with Jaedong -Stork vs Jaedong on Match Point -Stork STILL destroying practically any Terran he comes across (I still think that there's no Protoss out there better than Stork at PvT, not even BeSt or snOw) -Kal's solid WCG run -Kal being responsible for ending Bisu's winstreak (alongside T1's streak) -Kal's recent triumph over FlaSh is something that should definitely be acknowledged given FlaSh's near-invulnerability in TvP
free is a bit of an anomaly personally; he's alright but he's never really done anything noteworthy other than getting smashed by FlaSh twice in a semi-final series' and he's starting to slump in the Proleagues.
Not rooting for Bisu for obvious reasons. Good to see he's playing decently again but early 2010 was really unforgiving for Bisu.
How in the fucking world does Bisu have 43% of the total votes? So many of you are so completely goddamned deluded that it's insane. Bisu was by far the worst player of 2010 out of the four.
On December 22 2010 08:50 HitoriTomoyo wrote: Rooting for Kal mostly, + Show Spoiler +
followed closely by Stork: both players have accomplished the most for their race compared to the other two:
-Stork's OSL run up until the intense semi's with Jaedong -Stork vs Jaedong on Match Point -Stork STILL destroying practically any Terran he comes across (I still think that there's no Protoss out there better than Stork at PvT, not even BeSt or snOw)
-Kal's solid WCG run -Kal being responsible for ending Bisu's winstreak (alongside T1's streak) -Kal's recent triumph over FlaSh is something that should definitely be acknowledged given FlaSh's near-invulnerability in TvP
free is a bit of an anomaly personally; he's alright but he's never really done anything noteworthy other than getting smashed by FlaSh twice in a semi-final series' and he's starting to slump in the Proleagues.
Not rooting for Bisu for obvious reasons. Good to see he's playing decently again but early 2010 was really unforgiving for Bisu.
same here kal its very good toss he just doesnt have luck
I call Stork for top Protoss, for the reason that he has the highest chances of beating both the top Terran and the top Zerg. And also + Show Spoiler +
SO much fanboyism about Bisu in this thread that I want to vomit. He hasnt been the best protoss this year, make excuses if you want but its the truth. I voted for Kal since I think he has had a good year, been fighting alot of strong players and also has a awesome record in the individual leagues. I would say that Stork is a tiny bit more solid than Kal but Kal has cool different builds he tries out and has had a more prominent year even though Stork has been really good aswell. and I must admit it is very close between them three protoss Stork, Kal, Free (even though Free has been slumping abit lately).
Bisu was so bad for so much of this year its really impressive he's ended up with the best win ratio. I was gonna acuse this ratio of been good because he hasn't played many games but luckily I bothered to check first before blindly saying it like normal. Actually somehow Stork has played less games than him but Bisu, Free and Stork are all getting on for 50 games behind Kal. How has Kal played so many games is this the result of WCG and doing well in indvidual leagues. He's got the worst winning percentage but has played nearly 40% more games. Thats a hell of a burden. I think people should realise this before they over look Kal.
Your gonna lose more games if you playing a lot of best of 3' and 5's against very good oponents. I make this case for Kal having already voted for Free bassed on gutt feeling, opps.
On December 22 2010 07:37 Lightwip wrote: I think a few people are forgetting that Bisu made it out of the MSL group stage last year and then lost to Sea? Is that something that you guys overlooked?
Okay do you want me to rephrase it to "Hasn't gotten past the Ro16" then? He's still enormously below kal stork and free. You're playing semantics trying to defend Bisu and everyone who votes for him is, without reason, demeaning all three tosses who have been better all year.
My point is not that Bisu belongs at #1, it's that you should check your facts. In truth, if you said Stork I wouldn't disagree, although the other tosses I really wouldn't consider too much since they can't beat S class players.. It's either Bisu or Stork, though it's probably Stork.
dude what are you talking about. Kal has beaten both Bisu and Flash....
I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Stork, Kal and Free have been far more impressive over the year than Bisu. Off course their win% will be smaller with more BO#'s to play, but they also went much further in leagues. Bisu was knocked out by superchoker#1, Sea, which is not what I would call impressive. IIRC, both Stork and Free also had less opportunities for wins since their teams didn't make the playoffs of last PL. Not to downgrade Bisus' current skill and wins in PL, but best of the year? No.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
On December 22 2010 08:25 Elyvilon wrote: free has a winning record against Jaedong, and Kal has been beating other top players recently so, uh, what?
Free actually is 8-10 vs JD if you include non-ranked, as I believe you should. But his wins are from long ago; his PvZ skill faded since. Nowadays he loses multiple games to Hydra. And his record against Flash is kinda awful. Kal, on the other hand, is usually JD's punching bag. He's won games off of JD/Flash, but he never really managed to beat Flash or JD despite taking a game off them in a Bo3. If this was just like 2 games in which this happened, I'd say he could still compete with them, but this has been a recurring trend.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Don't forget being Shine's punching bag. That's better than being a Jaedong punching bag, correct?
Definately not Free. Kal gets it done from time to time but something deep down doesnt seem right. I'd say Bisu or Stork, with Stork being much more constant in his performance, but with a slump of his own. Id say Stork if only for his superior PvT, but Bisu hasnt really gotten much PvT anyways. In PvZ Bisu seems so much strogner than Stork.
On December 22 2010 08:45 iamho wrote: Bisu has beeen basically irrelevant all year. His winrate is inflated because he doesn't play too many of his team's ace matches and he never gets far enough to play the good opponents in individual leagues. In the last year, Bisu has played Flash just one time, whereas Stork has 3 times, Kal8 times, and free 9 times.
imo:
1. Stork 2. Kal 3. Free 4. Bisu
1-3 can be arguably switched around, but there's no way bisu should be anywhere up there. Hell, even Shine has been as good in proleague as bisu and far better in individual leagues.
On December 22 2010 08:25 Elyvilon wrote: free has a winning record against Jaedong, and Kal has been beating other top players recently so, uh, what?
Free actually is 8-10 vs JD if you include non-ranked, as I believe you should. But his wins are from long ago; his PvZ skill faded since. Nowadays he loses multiple games to Hydra. And his record against Flash is kinda awful. Kal, on the other hand, is usually JD's punching bag. He's won games off of JD/Flash, but he never really managed to beat Flash or JD despite taking a game off them in a Bo3. If this was just like 2 games in which this happened, I'd say he could still compete with them, but this has been a recurring trend.
The same Hydra that is 11-1 in his last games?
Remember Free's PvZ? I think that if that skill was the same as the one he displays nowdays his games against Hydra would atleast been very hard fought, if not won by Free,
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Don't forget being Shine's punching bag. That's better than being a Jaedong punching bag, correct?
If you want to bring that up, Kal is 0-4 against Shine. Come to think of it, I don't think Shine has a losing record against ANY top protoss. Yet he only has a 50%-ish winrate.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Don't forget being Shine's punching bag. That's better than being a Jaedong punching bag, correct?
If you want to bring that up, Kal is 0-4 against Shine.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought you guys were talking about individual leagues since Kal most lost(to Jaedong) would come from there.
Thats been the worst year in Bisu's career. Having that said he was still better than all other toss players combined. Not only that, but he managed to look good even when he colored his hair blond.
Kal was good, but whats the point of beating scrubs when you are like 0-10 against all top players. Stork is only good when Bisu does well, thats the way the world is. free is rubbish
On December 22 2010 10:07 SkelA wrote: This poll turned into "which protoss got the most fanboys " .
Yeah the amount of votes Kal and Free got are ridiculous. Either that or people are just judging who's playing the best at the moment not looking at their year's accomplishments
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Basically...unless you're a huge fanboy there's no way you can argue that Bisu was the best protoss for 2010 because he spent 3/4 of the whole year sitting around getting manner CCed by Frozean, getting kicked out by go.go again, getting destroyed by Firebathero, and generally performing like shit all round.
Objectively, Free and Kal were the most successful protoss players and I'd probably say that Kal was the "best" protoss of 2010. He might have got destroyed by Jaedong and Flash a few too many times, but he had a fairly decent proleague record (none of them had a great one) and constantly made his mark in individual leagues.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
Yeah real proud of a guy who doesn't know when to build a second cannon. They're all the same really, they all lose in stupid ways. Bisu less so but he didn't really do anything until the start of 09-10 proleague and even then he got busted out of the OSL already. Stork is a cool guy but if he actually had a work ethic, maybe he'd be truly amazing but he just spends time on stupid cellphone games.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Don't forget being Shine's punching bag. That's better than being a Jaedong punching bag, correct?
If you want to bring that up, Kal is 0-4 against Shine. Come to think of it, I don't think Shine has a losing record against ANY top protoss. Yet he only has a 50%-ish winrate.
For standard events, 53%; counting offlines (which I tend to think we should) bumps it up to 60%. As a Shine fanboy, I can say the problem is that for his first few years he was an absolutely terrible ZvT player, and it still shows up in his overall record even though he's gotten (relatively) much better - on a 9-1 (with offlines) streak right now. Though it's still not "good" - I mean, it's to the point where he can beat Sea, but still bad enough to lose to Mind.
On December 22 2010 10:28 Jaester88 wrote: How could this not go to Kal (let alone let him have only 8% of the votes)?? The poll-skewing power of T1 fans is seriously disturbing...
I honestly think this not going to Kal can be made a case for, but there is no way Bisu deserves it. Stork, Free, and Kal have all good cases. This has been said before, but I wanted to repeat it because I'm a Kal fanboy and at least put effort into being objective about this vote.
On December 22 2010 10:21 disciple wrote: Thats been the worst year in Bisu's career. Having that said he was still better than all other toss players combined. Not only that, but he managed to look good even when he colored his hair blond.
Kal was good, but whats the point of beating scrubs when you are like 0-10 against all top players. Stork is only good when Bisu does well, thats the way the world is. free is rubbish
On December 22 2010 10:21 disciple wrote: Thats been the worst year in Bisu's career. Having that said he was still better than all other toss players combined. Not only that, but he managed to look good even when he colored his hair blond.
Kal was good, but whats the point of beating scrubs when you are like 0-10 against all top players. Stork is only good when Bisu does well, thats the way the world is. free is rubbish
lol
Should have bolded the whole post IMO. Comedy gold.
Voted for Stork, as he is the most deserving in my opinion. Kal ran him close, but Kal's record in SLs wasn't that good and he really has been inconsistent. Still, it's good that he has been able to take games off top players like Bisu, Flash etc. As for free, this may have to be due to a personal bias or something, but I just don't find his play impressive nor inspiring.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
How the fuck is losing 3-0 to Flash and Jaedong in the semifinals worse than playing too shit to even play them in a BoX? Bisu didn't even get to the Ro8 a single time the entire year whereas Kal/Free got to Semis twice this year. I'm sorry but there is no way you can possibly think Bisu's individual league accomplishments are anything but laughable compared to Kal's/Free's this year.
Also your point about having more fans than Stork/BIsu is silly. Its not like all of these players suddenly started playing this year, fanbases get built up over time. Bisu/Stork are much higher than Free/Kal in terms of best protoss ever, but for this year hell no.
Bisu has been doing fucking amazing in 10-11 PL so far (as well as pretty good in 09-10 PL playoffs) but this is an award for the entire year. If this were awarded before the start of this season the thought of giving it to Bisu would have been hilarious.
I think it should be 1.Stork 2.Kal 3.Free 4.Bisu but 1-3 are really close and could be in any order (though Free's recent slumping since the start of R2 makes his case for best weaker)
For the Record Bisu is one of my 5 favorite progamers ever so it isn't like I hate him or anything (and btw I play protoss and typically root for protoss players so don't even try using that irrelevant argument)
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
How the fuck is losing 3-0 to Flash and Jaedong in the semifinals worse than playing too shit to even play them in a BoX? Bisu didn't even get to the Ro8 a single time the entire year whereas Kal/Free got to Semis twice this year. I'm sorry but there is no way you can possibly think Bisu's individual league accomplishments are anything but laughable compared to Kal's/Free's this year.
Also your point about having more fans than Stork/BIsu is silly. Its not like all of these players suddenly started playing this year, fanbases get built up over time. Bisu/Stork are much higher than Free/Kal in terms of best protoss ever, but for this year hell no.
Bisu has been doing fucking amazing in 10-11 PL so far (as well as pretty good in 09-10 PL playoffs) but this is an award for the entire year. If this were awarded before the start of this season the thought of giving it to Bisu would have been hilarious.
I think it should be 1.Stork 2.Kal 3.Free 4.Bisu but 1-3 are really close and could be in any order (though Free's recent slumping since the start of R2 makes his case for best weaker)
For the Record Bisu is one of my 5 favorite progamers ever so it isn't like I hate him or anything (and btw I play protoss and typically root for protoss players so don't even try using that irrelevant argument)
Anywhere in my post mentioning that Bisu is the best ? I said Stork is the best and explained why. I said Kal/Free is no way the best and explained why Protoss fans don't like them (look at the poll and see for yourself if they are loved by the fans lol). My post was not to argue that Bisu is the best this year (I said that he is not the best), but to counter the Zerg and Terran fans who want to claim their punching bag as the best Protoss, simply unacceptable. You seem to interpret it differently and argue about something unrelated to my post.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
How the fuck is losing 3-0 to Flash and Jaedong in the semifinals worse than playing too shit to even play them in a BoX? Bisu didn't even get to the Ro8 a single time the entire year whereas Kal/Free got to Semis twice this year. I'm sorry but there is no way you can possibly think Bisu's individual league accomplishments are anything but laughable compared to Kal's/Free's this year.
Also your point about having more fans than Stork/BIsu is silly. Its not like all of these players suddenly started playing this year, fanbases get built up over time. Bisu/Stork are much higher than Free/Kal in terms of best protoss ever, but for this year hell no.
Bisu has been doing fucking amazing in 10-11 PL so far (as well as pretty good in 09-10 PL playoffs) but this is an award for the entire year. If this were awarded before the start of this season the thought of giving it to Bisu would have been hilarious.
I think it should be 1.Stork 2.Kal 3.Free 4.Bisu but 1-3 are really close and could be in any order (though Free's recent slumping since the start of R2 makes his case for best weaker)
For the Record Bisu is one of my 5 favorite progamers ever so it isn't like I hate him or anything (and btw I play protoss and typically root for protoss players so don't even try using that irrelevant argument)
Anywhere in my post mentioning that Bisu is the best ? I said Stork is the best and explained why. I said Kal/Free is no way the best and explained why Protoss fans don't like them (look at the poll and see for yourself if they are loved by the fans lol). My post was not to argue that Bisu is the best this year (I said that he is not the best), but to counter the Zerg and Terran fans who want to claim their punching bag as the best Protoss, simply unacceptable. You seem to interpret it differently and argue about something unrelated to my post.
Are you seriously arguing that the only reason people like free and Kal is because they lose to Flash and Jaedong?
Seriously? Kal has had the most solid and impressive year out of any of these players. Stork has played well, as usual and made a semi-finals, but he hasn't been the asset to his team that Kal has. free made a semifinal, but hasn't been heard from since. Stars has two players I would consider over free for an ace match. And Bisu? He collapsed, he has nowhere near Kal's tournament pedigree this year, and has only just reentered the conversation as one of the game's elite players. He's not the best player on his team either, and hasn't been this entire year.
Looking at the stats, (OP) Kal's winning percentage is actually the poorest of the four. Yet this number comes into clearer focus when you consider that he has played 36 games more than his closest competitor (free). THIRTY SIX GAMES. That's four less games than Jaehoon has won in his entire career. (40-61) When you're constantly playing games in the upper levels of tournaments, playing every match and every ace, your record is bound to reflect that. Kal has been a tremendous workhorse, a consistent ace, and a deep threat in every tournament he's entered.
Let's one new set of statistics into the mix, eh? This is how each of these players performed in the major tournaments they entered. Kal + Show Spoiler [Kal] +
KA OSL I - Lost in Ro4 to EffOrt (Champion) Hana Daetoo Securities MSL - Did not make series play Bigfile MSL - Lost in Ro16 to Jaedong (Runner Up) KA OSL II - Did not make series play WCG Korea - Lost in Ro4 to Flash (Runner Up)
KA OSL I - Did not make series play Hana Daetoo Securities MSL - Did not make series play Bigfile MSL - Did not qualify KA OSL II - Lost in Ro4 to Jaedong (Runner Up) WCG Korea - Lost in Ro16 to Pure (Ro8)
KA OSL I- Lost in qualifying to a current Sc2 player. (lol) Hana Daetoo Securities MSL - Lost in Ro4 to Flash (Champion) Bigfile MSL - Did not make series play KA OSL II - Lost in Ro4 to Flash (Champion) WCG Korea - Lost in Ro24 to Pure (Ro8)
KA OSL I- Did not make series play Hana Daetoo Securities MSL - Did not make series play Bigfile MSL - Did not make series play KA OSL II - Lost in Ro16 to Sea (Ro8) WCG Korea - Lost in Ro8 to Kal (3rd)
It's not even close. Kal and Free have been dependable, Stork had one great run, and Bisu has been utterly useless.
Now I think that Free and Stork have good arguments for (Don't kid yourself, Bisu has not been the best protoss of the year.) but Kal mixes dependability and consistency with dynamic play. For all of his struggles against Flash, Jaedong and EffOrt this year, let's not forget that nobody else had much success against these players either. Kal just made it into a position to face them, because he's that good.
Stork will win unless Bisu fanboys occupy more than 50% of TL fan base.
Not only Stork's fans vote for him, but also Bisu's anti-fans, Zerg fans, Terran fans who want to counter the Bisu's fanboys. But it is interesting to see how far the Bisu fan base can ruin the poll lol.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
How the fuck is losing 3-0 to Flash and Jaedong in the semifinals worse than playing too shit to even play them in a BoX? Bisu didn't even get to the Ro8 a single time the entire year whereas Kal/Free got to Semis twice this year. I'm sorry but there is no way you can possibly think Bisu's individual league accomplishments are anything but laughable compared to Kal's/Free's this year.
Also your point about having more fans than Stork/BIsu is silly. Its not like all of these players suddenly started playing this year, fanbases get built up over time. Bisu/Stork are much higher than Free/Kal in terms of best protoss ever, but for this year hell no.
Bisu has been doing fucking amazing in 10-11 PL so far (as well as pretty good in 09-10 PL playoffs) but this is an award for the entire year. If this were awarded before the start of this season the thought of giving it to Bisu would have been hilarious.
I think it should be 1.Stork 2.Kal 3.Free 4.Bisu but 1-3 are really close and could be in any order (though Free's recent slumping since the start of R2 makes his case for best weaker)
For the Record Bisu is one of my 5 favorite progamers ever so it isn't like I hate him or anything (and btw I play protoss and typically root for protoss players so don't even try using that irrelevant argument)
Anywhere in my post mentioning that Bisu is the best ? I said Stork is the best and explained why. I said Kal/Free is no way the best and explained why Protoss fans don't like them (look at the poll and see for yourself if they are loved by the fans lol). My post was not to argue that Bisu is the best this year (I said that he is not the best), but to counter the Zerg and Terran fans who want to claim their punching bag as the best Protoss, simply unacceptable. You seem to interpret it differently and argue about something unrelated to my post.
Basically ALL of them are punching bags for Jaedong/Flash. Stork hasn't done much of worth besides beating Jaedong a few times. He got demolished by Flash just as badly as Free or Kal did.
Kal and Free are massive punching bags because they actually got to the point where they were able to be punching bags, what type of stupid argument are you trying to force (pride of protoss fans in question because they can't beat Jaedong or Flash what the hell?)? Free might have been utterly demolished by Flash but he got to two Bo5s with him, something Stork never ever got to do in the whole year because he kept struggling against weaker players.
The most successful protoss is without a doubt Kal, tree.hugger explained it very well why.
On December 22 2010 06:47 danl9rm wrote: Why is everyone saying Bisu will only win because he has 'da fanboys? He has the highest win percentage out of all the contenders for the entire year.
and no individual league performances compared to the top 4/multiple top 8 showings by all of his competitors
On December 22 2010 12:33 gen.Sun wrote: @Womwomwom ya even follow starcraft? Stork is 4-3 vs the dong this year.
Basically ALL of them are punching bags for Jaedong/Flash. Stork hasn't done much of worth besides beating Jaedong a few times. He got demolished by Flash just as badly as Free or Kal did.
That's the single really positive thing Stork has achieved for the whole year. If a barely positive record against Jaedong, and not much else, is enough to net you "Best Protoss of the Year", I fear for the protoss race's survival because we're aiming pretty low...we're not even talking about beating Jaedong at series matches, we're just talking about winning lone games against him.
Basically ALL of them are punching bags for Jaedong/Flash. Stork hasn't done much of worth besides beating Jaedong a few times. He got demolished by Flash just as badly as Free or Kal did.
That's the single really positive thing Stork has achieved for the whole year. If a barely positive record against Jaedong, and not much else, is enough to net you "Best Protoss of the Year", I fear for the protoss race's survival because we're aiming pretty low...we're not even talking about beating Jaedong at series matches, we're just talking about winning lone games against him.
If a protoss that gets tossed around(excuse the pun) by top players is #1, that's also bad for the protoss. That's pretty much just saying that all protoss suck so much that they can't even beat the two Lees. But honestly, except in the dragon age, protoss have always done kinda bad.
Basically ALL of them are punching bags for Jaedong/Flash. Stork hasn't done much of worth besides beating Jaedong a few times. He got demolished by Flash just as badly as Free or Kal did.
That's the single really positive thing Stork has achieved for the whole year. If a barely positive record against Jaedong, and not much else, is enough to net you "Best Protoss of the Year", I fear for the protoss race's survival because we're aiming pretty low. We're not even talking about beating Jaedong at series matches, we're just talking about winning lone games against him.
If you are talking about the Kespa's award, then yes Kal will probably have it, it's based on accomplishment. But we were talking about who is actually the best , and by the best I mean who has the ability to go toe to toe against Jaedong or Flash. That's why I eliminated the punching bags, because they are incapable of having a positive record against them. There's a reason why Protoss fans put hope in Stork/Bisu and not Kal/Free lol. And you are a Zerg why the hell do you "fear for the protoss race's survival", doesn't make any sense at all.
On December 22 2010 12:33 gen.Sun wrote: @Womwomwom ya even follow starcraft? Stork is 4-3 vs the dong this year.
Basically ALL of them are punching bags for Jaedong/Flash. Stork hasn't done much of worth besides beating Jaedong a few times. He got demolished by Flash just as badly as Free or Kal did.
That's the single really positive thing Stork has achieved for the whole year. If a barely positive record against Jaedong, and not much else, is enough to net you "Best Protoss of the Year", I fear for the protoss race's survival because we're aiming pretty low. We're not even talking about beating Jaedong at series matches, we're just talking about winning lone games against him.
And you are a Zerg why the hell do you "fear for the protoss race's survival", doesn't make any sense at all.
Because I'm not a massive fanboy and/or Starcraft racist? Its not that hard seriously to look objectively at the results and the reasons behind the results.
Stork has only been able to go toe to toe with Jaedong, which barely makes any sense in the first place. Toe to toe with Flash? Nope, he hasn't faced him as often as Free/Kal but his results are just as bad...he won a single game on Heartbreak Ridge and that was before Flash figured out how to break TvP for most of the year.
Free/Stork/Kal depends on what you prioritize. If you care so much about a 4-3 record against Jaedong and absolutely nothing else, Stork is your man because its the single thing he has over the rest of them (and even then only his Match Point game was a truly phenomenal performance).
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
How the fuck is losing 3-0 to Flash and Jaedong in the semifinals worse than playing too shit to even play them in a BoX? Bisu didn't even get to the Ro8 a single time the entire year whereas Kal/Free got to Semis twice this year. I'm sorry but there is no way you can possibly think Bisu's individual league accomplishments are anything but laughable compared to Kal's/Free's this year.
Also your point about having more fans than Stork/BIsu is silly. Its not like all of these players suddenly started playing this year, fanbases get built up over time. Bisu/Stork are much higher than Free/Kal in terms of best protoss ever, but for this year hell no.
Bisu has been doing fucking amazing in 10-11 PL so far (as well as pretty good in 09-10 PL playoffs) but this is an award for the entire year. If this were awarded before the start of this season the thought of giving it to Bisu would have been hilarious.
I think it should be 1.Stork 2.Kal 3.Free 4.Bisu but 1-3 are really close and could be in any order (though Free's recent slumping since the start of R2 makes his case for best weaker)
For the Record Bisu is one of my 5 favorite progamers ever so it isn't like I hate him or anything (and btw I play protoss and typically root for protoss players so don't even try using that irrelevant argument)
Anywhere in my post mentioning that Bisu is the best ? I said Stork is the best and explained why. I said Kal/Free is no way the best and explained why Protoss fans don't like them (look at the poll and see for yourself if they are loved by the fans lol). My post was not to argue that Bisu is the best this year (I said that he is not the best), but to counter the Zerg and Terran fans who want to claim their punching bag as the best Protoss, simply unacceptable. You seem to interpret it differently and argue about something unrelated to my post.
You mentioned that it either Stork or Bisu was the best in an earlier post.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Saying that BIsu should be higher than Kal/Free because they got beat up by Jaedong/Flash (technically you didn't mention losing to Flash but you did talk about being punching bags for Zerg/Terran which would imply Flash) when Bisu played too shit to even get a chance to get stomped is just plain dumb. That is what I was talking about in my post. Did you notice how my post talked about why Kal/Free were better this year than Bisu?
Protoss fans who want to claim the guy who couldn't even get past the Ro16 as the best Protoss, simply unacceptable (this is just changing around a statement kamikami made). You seem to have completely ignored one of your earlier posts.
I personally voted Stork since you just have to love the guy's consistency. Personally I think that consistency is the best trait a progamer can have, and Stork has it in spades.
Next would have to be Kal since his play style is just so solid and he has made more individual league appearences than the others when you include WCG grand final/Korea.
I guess it depends on how you judge best. Achievements, quality of play, or consistency.
I place it at:
Kal/Stork Bisu Free
Because I feel they all achieved so little, their achievements this yar are basically not worth mentioning in this comparison.
So it comes down to quality of play. As I see it Bisu and Stork have had the most games that make you think: 'Wow! if only he could do this more often, there is clearly the potential to beat S-class players there'.
But Bisu does it so rarely that Kal is beating him by sheer weight of consistency.
I don't even know why free is in contention. He has been consistently meh the whole season. Good but unimpressive, people just seem to have a knack for playing like trash against him for some reason. I guess it make sense if you only look at results and not how well they are actually playing to achieve those wins but I really think free shouldn't be there. I can understand the argument for Bisu, although I think the massive inconsistency is too much for a few good games to overcome. I can't really understand free being on this list at all.
honestly stork has been doing pretty well lately but he's just been so inconsistent all year and really didnt even matter in the leagues until last season's OSL.
for the 1st 2/3 of 2010, it was all about kal and free for protoss.
On December 22 2010 09:41 FuRong wrote: I voted Stork to counter the Bisu fanboys, but after reading Ideas' post I agree that it should probably go to Kal. Although his performance has been pretty average in PL, he did record wins over some top players and he has the best Protoss record in individual leagues.
Yeah, the favorite punching bag of Jaedong being the best Protoss of the year, how stupid of an idea. It's either Stork or Bisu, and if you are not a Protoss fan, why bother voting at all.
Why would you feel offended by the objectivity of an non-protoss fan? If anything, he'd be less fanboyish about his decisions. If you call Kal the punching bag of Jaedong and Flash, I could easily reply by calling Bisu the punching bag of Frozean and Sea. Which one sounds more "Best Protoss-worthy" to you?
Because being owned 0-3 by Jaedong in a humiliated way is a great shame to the Protoss fan base, that made the fans hate him, or else he would have more fans than both Bisu and Stork considering his achievement.
I already said that Stork is the best of this year, and if Bisu win this it's just because of the fanboys. Stork almost beat Jaedong in the semi-final and although he lost he lost in a spectacular fashion, thus saving the Protoss pride (unlike Kal who got humiliated every time). The best Protoss is the one that makes us proud, not the one that makes us feel humiliated by Zerg and Terran.
How the fuck is losing 3-0 to Flash and Jaedong in the semifinals worse than playing too shit to even play them in a BoX? Bisu didn't even get to the Ro8 a single time the entire year whereas Kal/Free got to Semis twice this year. I'm sorry but there is no way you can possibly think Bisu's individual league accomplishments are anything but laughable compared to Kal's/Free's this year.
Also your point about having more fans than Stork/BIsu is silly. Its not like all of these players suddenly started playing this year, fanbases get built up over time. Bisu/Stork are much higher than Free/Kal in terms of best protoss ever, but for this year hell no.
Bisu has been doing fucking amazing in 10-11 PL so far (as well as pretty good in 09-10 PL playoffs) but this is an award for the entire year. If this were awarded before the start of this season the thought of giving it to Bisu would have been hilarious.
I think it should be 1.Stork 2.Kal 3.Free 4.Bisu but 1-3 are really close and could be in any order (though Free's recent slumping since the start of R2 makes his case for best weaker)
For the Record Bisu is one of my 5 favorite progamers ever so it isn't like I hate him or anything (and btw I play protoss and typically root for protoss players so don't even try using that irrelevant argument)
Anywhere in my post mentioning that Bisu is the best ? I said Stork is the best and explained why. I said Kal/Free is no way the best and explained why Protoss fans don't like them (look at the poll and see for yourself if they are loved by the fans lol). My post was not to argue that Bisu is the best this year (I said that he is not the best), but to counter the Zerg and Terran fans who want to claim their punching bag as the best Protoss, simply unacceptable. You seem to interpret it differently and argue about something unrelated to my post.
The entirety of the Protoss race has been the punching bag of Terran and Zerg for the majority of the past decade of BW. Apparently this continuous beatdown has completely destroyed you fellows that you cling on to the one Protoss player that almost made it but failed anyway even in the midst of him playing extremely poorly for the majority of the year. I guess I can understand.
I think stork, because he was the most consistent player through the entire year. And if he enters the booth, you always know "he CAN take this". While kal and free are somewhat, meh, they don't have the aura lol.
Right now, Bisu is imo the definitely best Protoss, BUT, he wasn't throughout 2010, so Stork.
Bisu, because admittedly i am a fanboy but even so,
88% winrate is very impressive in the proleague, and outweighs his poor 33% winrate in the winners league imo, plus hes still got the highest total winrate despite being 33% in winners league
i would say Kal and i am not huge fan of him, but most of his shit in star-league (and PL) were topped by Lee2 and Effort. then again some of his pvz and normal games sucked so bad, its a contradiction.
I voted Stork, though Free and Kal both showed flashes of abusive brilliance earlier this year. Their records are even more important when you take into account how bad facing Jaedong, Flash, or Effort (the only starleague winners this year) in a BoX can be for your winrate. Damn, Kal...thats gotta be frustrating.
Kal v Flash 2-6 v Jaedong 1-7 v Effort 2-5
Stork v Flash 0-3 v Jaedong 4-3 v Effort 0-1
Free v Flash 2-7 v Jaedong 0-1 v Effort 1-0
Bisu v Flash 0-1 v Jaedong 1-0 v Effort 0-1
Additionally it should be blatantly obvious what Bisu has done to recover his record this year. His vT and even his vP play was becoming a joke last spring. So what has his team done to correct for that this proleague season? 12-1 Zerg 3-0 terran 3-1 protoss Uh...make sure he plays on zerg maps and pray he does good if a terran or protoss pops out! Which to his credit he has...but can you really justify voting for a player who is so clearly dodging his weaker matchups?
just joking, but when stork plays good he plays good, and when bisu plays good he plays good. lets hope they do a dragonball z style fusion(vegeta and goku) and form the ultimate protoss player
I say don't do the protoss award, not until there's a toss doing something pro again -^
Seriously difficult question; they've all settles around the same skill level, doing ok, but nothing spectacular. I like Brokenlight's approach, because the scbw skill level field seems to be determined by the Lee brothers. Whatever is decided, I'd love to hear a solid case for the winner ^^
Bisu was the best toss of proleague, Stork the best of individual leagues. I'm gonna give it to Stork because I saw a few REALLY crap Bisu pvt's this year that looked worse than any progamer should ever play.
Sexy protoss players! This is a hard choice for me, because i like them all too much. However i would vote for Stork, as he was the most stable protoss player through the year. Bisu sucked the whole year except last 3 months so there is big nono to Bisu even i am his fan. Free and Kal aren't just that good to be called the best protoss.
stork imho. he had the most consistent year, his individual league accomplishments arent far behind kal´s and he is the only toss who id call a serious threat to both flash and jaedong.
Stork. Was one cannon away from a good ace match against Jaedong in the ro4... I think. Bisu didn't do well in individual leagues, from what I remember. If Bisu didn't get knocked out I may have picked him instead.
I'd have to say Stork, as he's the only one that hasn't had a huge slump at any point. Everyone else has probably looked better than him at some point, but also a huge amount worse at some point as well (Kal prior to his WCG run, free right now, Bisu early in the year).
edit: re: cryptale's poll a few up, i voted other as i'm stats > horang2 > free in terms of favourite player which in no way corresponds with who i think is best
I'm pretty sure all Protoss players are not doing to well at this point in time. Stork/Free/Kal at least made it far in individual leagues. Bisu, as said before, has totally failed out of individual leagues over and over. In Proleague, Bisu's had a streak, but over the course of the year, all of these players have been non-outstanding, and none of them are their team's clear ace choice. 'Cept maybe Stork.
I'm not surprised it went to Kal. Over this year as a whole, he has been more consistent while Bisu struggled a whole lot. Stork wasn't that big this year. Though I don't hate Free, I don't like him either. I think Bisu needs to grab his inner bonjwa like we know he has and pull it out right now to give us hope. Unless Kal or Stork has it too o.O
But I regress, Kal does deserve it, I'm happy he got it.
Honestly Bisu has no chance, he didn't even make it to a good spot in OSL or MSL. It's up to Stork VS Kal in my opinion. Since I love Stork I'm hoping for stork = P But then Kal has the bronze medal and shit.. grrr
Kal won the award, but Stork deserved it imo. No protoss was consistently impressive this year but Stork came the closest. And I'm not a Stork fan at all.
Well, I hate Shine. in 2010, Bisu was 1-3, Kal was 0-3, and Stork was 1-1 vs Shiny McShinerson. free has not played him. so, since Stork did the best i voted Stork.
Just love all the Bisu hate cuz really protoss won NOTHING in 2009/2010 and yet people say that my boy went to 1/8 of OSL or even lost in Finals...sure it matters but it's not the only criteria cuz one can lose to Flash in friggin 1/16 and another could be lucky enough to meet Flash in Finals etc. If some Protoss won something than he is AUTO best
On December 23 2010 21:29 Hazard wrote: Just love all the Bisu hate cuz really protoss won NOTHING in 2009/2010 and yet people say that my boy went to 1/8 of OSL or even lost in Finals...sure it matters but it's not the only criteria cuz one can lose to Flash in friggin 1/16 and another could be lucky enough to meet Flash in Finals etc. If some Protoss won something than he is AUTO best
Indeed. Bisu only lost to Flash and Jaedong in... err... OSL? no... MSL? no...
He did get kicked out by Kal a few times, and go.go once, and Sea once. Those were bonjwas, right?
Bisu is far away the best still. When you look at his macro and micro, they are the best. unfortunately he has a bit mind problems, crippling confidence in indiv league
Kal is the Protoss player of 2010. OSL/MSL round of 4 games against Flash and Jaedong are a significant portion of his loss total. Kal is the reason STX placed well in 09-10 proleague; his backup is Calm, and Calm is horrible.
lol... Defnitely Kal's year imo. Free's time was good too. Taekbang didn't have a great year... esp Stork. Always good but never seemed top flight this year.
O, they picked already. lolol! Well, good to say I have pristine judgment as always.
On December 24 2010 03:32 xarthaz wrote: Bisu is far away the best still. When you look at his macro and micro, they are the best. unfortunately he has a bit mind problems, crippling confidence in indiv league
kal's got better micro than bisu. it's very hard to differentiate one's self in terms of macro nowadays though. everyone is really close (aka bisu's macro is not any better than any other top protoss).
bisu is better at adapting his playstyle usually, but kal has had the most impressive control of any protoss for at least the last year.
Hey people how about a "The official Bisu fan club" thread where we discuss his next opponents, his last match, his current performance... and express the hate on Shine ?
On December 24 2010 13:05 kamikami wrote: Hey people how about a "The official Bisu fan club" thread where we discuss his next opponents, his last match, his current performance... and express the hate on Shine ?
On December 24 2010 13:05 kamikami wrote: Hey people how about a "The official Bisu fan club" thread where we discuss his next opponents, his last match, his current performance... and express the hate on Shine ?
While I voted for Stork in the poll here, I gotta say it looks like Kal deserves it, even with his Proleague problems. He's got the only medal, and while he didn't give the strongest league performance of the year (that would be free's OSL run) the game numbers make it pretty clear he was more consistently going deep into leagues. Plus he has kept a winning PL record so far, and has the most total wins by a good margin. Honestly I'm astounded by the PL record for Kal: I had no idea he had that kind of a workload - with Calm and now Bogus as potential aces on the team, to say nothing of Shuttle, I'd not have thought he'd play so many games.
Kal > Stork >>> Free >>>>>>>>>>>> Bisu bisu really had nothing of note in 2010 except being removed from the team's lineup for nearly a month, it's absolutely ridiculous that people would put him as best this year. was he the best in the past? yes. but not this year. also, he's not a bonjwa by any definition...
In terms of individual league results, Free and Kal stand out as better than Stork and Bisu in 2010. Stork at least made it to a semifinal. Bisu sucked it up.
Kal's proleague form has been off and on all year and it shows in his stats. Free and Stork are at least comparable to Bisu in their proleague stats; Kal is nowhere close.
I voted for Free. I think he was the most solid overall this year and I think he tends to get under appreciated. It hasn't really been a good season for him this season, but for the rest of the year he was just more solid.
My #2 choice would probably be Stork, but he spent most of the year floundering. It wasn't until towards the end of last season that he started to really seriously gain any momentum. This season of course he is positively on fire, but he spent most of the year failing to do anything in individual leagues.
Kal is kind of a wildcard in all this.
Bisu would be my last choice. 2010 has been his worst year on record. I don't know what kind of rampant fanboyism it takes to think he's actually been the best Protoss player this year.
While I voted for Stork in the poll here, I gotta say it looks like Kal deserves it, even with his Proleague problems. He's got the only medal, and while he didn't give the strongest league performance of the year (that would be free's OSL run) the game numbers make it pretty clear he was more consistently going deep into leagues. Plus he has kept a winning PL record so far, and has the most total wins by a good margin. Honestly I'm astounded by the PL record for Kal: I had no idea he had that kind of a workload - with Calm and now Bogus as potential aces on the team, to say nothing of Shuttle, I'd not have thought he'd play so many games.
Yeah but stork takes down jd and flash kinda often, and he doesnt even take this game seriously (cell phones for the win). It makes you wonder, how good would he be if january would quit trolling and he would put his galaxy tab and phone down lol
Stork is the only Protoss player who I wouldn't put as the underdog vs Jaedong/Flash. Unfortunately, he also has the habit of losing games he shouldn't be losing.
While Bisu has the stats behind him, Stork feels way more stable and reliable. The only thing Bisu has that Stork does not is delivering where it matters most (the finals stage). Untill then, my prediciton of Stork winning this OSL still stands.
On December 23 2010 17:58 ci_esteban wrote: Am I the only surprised how close the voting is? I thought Bisu would be ahead in a landslide with his good looks and charm but I guess not.
Pretty sure it's SKT fans voting for bisu, and literally everyone else voting for kal or stork.
EPT
Bisu, 
Sea in Bigfile MSL and failing his group in Korean Air OSL Season 2. His OSL dream has once again got crushed by 
Shine. His PvZ however remains legendary with 73.53% winnrate this year. 
(and was 1-9 in non-dreamleague/prelim games lololol. losing to ganzi... ouch.)
