I just realized Hite's zerg line is so abysmal without Effort lol. Funny how Oz has the most players on the lineup but is ganna suck so much with the new Bo7 format :DDDDD
For some reason, STX seems really strong now... Kal, Calm and Classic (not to forget they got 2 more zergs that can easily make appearance and Shuttle) all capable of good games.
SKT seems good also, hopefully we get amazing series going on (FBBA! hwaiting)! bo7 makes these rosters more meaningful and intresting.
On October 15 2010 17:12 vectorix108 wrote: hmm what happened to Iris? i thought he applied to ACE? and just to be clear the format is the same as last year's right?
He just entered this month. Still has to undergo basic training.
Format to proleague? Now BO7. 6 rounds total. Round 3 and 4 are WL format.
On October 15 2010 17:12 vectorix108 wrote: hmm what happened to Iris? i thought he applied to ACE? and just to be clear the format is the same as last year's right?
He just entered this month. Still has to undergo basic training.
Format to proleague? Now BO7. 6 rounds total. Round 3 and 4 are WL format.
ACE has an awesome lineup this year! Can't wait for them to take some games off of Flash and Jaedong!
Now that the format is Bo7, Wemade looks really strong. Pure, Shine, Roro + the terran backbone of Midas, Baby, Mind and Major. If a game goes to ACE now, and each team has to send out 6 players, my money is on Wemade.
Holy fuck KT got action! And woongjin got really! And hite even without effort is looking pretty sick with leta, horang2 and hogil! And SKT got kwanro so now they have strong tosses, terrans, and a decent zerg! STX got hyvaa which is completely and utterly redundant but still exciting nonetheless!
This will be an awesome season, I can't believe how excited I am for this thing to start.
STX is going to dominate this year. They've had runs recently, but nothing worthy of their wall of talent. I'm probably going to miss the first day of PL tomorrow since I'll be going for a hike during the day. I hope things go well and I can check out some sick games on the small VOD thread soon. I don't think I've been more pumped for proleague. When was the last time BW was on TV regularly?
EDIT: Please let FPL happen. I'm going to beat my previous record and win this baby.
First thought: i though reach and yellow go back to kt? well, unlucky:/ but on the seond thought. this is gonna be the most intense round of proleague ever. ALL teams are so stacked! ACTION in kt! forGG shall tell him how to stop all sort of timing pushes, and training his lategame with flash he will be next bonjwa.
To be honest, the teams actually look pretty even. Most teams have about 3 or 4 strong players, and the rest to just make up numbers. In a bo7 format it's going to be really interesting, especially in the winners league format rounds. We should get some close matches, really looking forward to this~
Its good to see Action on a good team that has a relatively weak zerg lineup and that Really is on a team with an abysmal terran lineup. Also I was seriously worried for Cj Entus and Hite but seeing as how they merged, I think that this season looks really balanced.
On October 15 2010 17:33 _awake_ wrote: FBH and Much on the same team :O
I wish Samsung KHAN had a stronger lineup...
Chavi's gonna break out this season.
And Stork and Jangbi will keep takin' names. Don't you worry aobut KHAN.
I wish they would have gotten one of the bigger names from Estro, though. Hyvaa, Classic or Action (and even Really) would have helped so much to strenghten the line-up. I don't think STX needed Hyvaa AND Classic, and Stars also had a deep line-up already so they didn't need Flying AND Really (Flying is solid too but Khan didn't need another Toss so I didnt list him).
Uh oh, Midas and Violet as captains. Captains tend to go away pretty soon after becoming captains
But on the more optimistic hand, things are looking pretty close this season. I think KT/SKT are shoe ins and Woongjin/STX are most likely playoffs contenders, but there's a really good competition between oz/wemade/mbc/hitentus, and maybe even samsung if they can find their magic again.
And the season starts off with KT vs SKT, absolutely fabulous kickoff.
On October 15 2010 19:29 TwoToneTerran wrote: Captains tend to go away pretty soon after becoming captains
Nooo! Jaedong! Don't leave me!
On October 15 2010 19:56 KTF_CloaK wrote: where is the mantoss? Reach?
I just noticed this too. I think I remember reading that he was switching over to SC2, which is awesome if he plays regularly but that means no more manly mine drags, zeal bombs and mudang storms...
Also, Flash + Action!? Seriously?! Woogjin and Hite though look pretty tough as well~
On October 15 2010 19:02 Holgerius wrote: ACE just got even more awesome (FBH)! :D Samsung dropped in awesomeness though (no FBH).
On paper KT will roflstomp with a Bo7 format. ^__^ Amazing depth.
How is KT's Bo7 lineup better than SKT, Hite Entus or Stars?
Well it's definitely better than Hite's and Stars, and I think it's damn close with SKT.
I mean, name the playable players on each team and compare them to KT (this is without maps to consider, though, which is very important. We just don't know how the new PL maps will play out).
KT's best players who'll probably get playtime this season are:
Hoejja is obviously the weak link here but that's as solid a Terran/Protoss Lineup there is in the league. Obviously still weak in the zerg department if Action doesn't perform -- tentatively an amazing line up, Action really is the dealbreaker here.
Now, let's take Hite Entus:
Leta, Skyhigh, Snow, Movie, Horang, Hogil, Hydra
While that is actually more players and on the bottom end they're definitely better than Tempest/Hoejja, after Leta the team devolves purely into snipers. The entire Entus part of the line up, now that Effort's gone, all have one good matchup for the most part. Skyhigh TvT, Snow PvT, Movie PvZ (I'll say his PvP ain't bad, though), and well I'm not even sure Hydra's good enough to qualify as a sniper. The same goes for the rest of the hite side, where Horang and Hogil are both almost exclusively vP players.
In a pure KT vs Hite Entus setup, that's not so bad, since KT is very Terran/Protoss heavy and this new Hite Entus is almost exclusively made out of vT and vP experts (hell hite and entus both individually had a history of bothering KT). But overall, especially with regards to other teams who have stronger zergs, Hite Entus isn't nearly as well rounded as KT. I expect Hite Entus to probably make playoffs and lose out in the lower stages (kind of like how Hite and Entus usually do, funnily enough). This is a team very dependent on coaching and how good maps are for snipers, though. VERY finnicky, good potential.
Onto SKT, who do have a very star studded lineup:
Fantasy, ...Canata(cringe, but he did win in playoffs), Bisu Best, Kwanro, S2, Hyuk
Arguably the best protoss lineup (KT has added some shadows to that claim, though), but pretty one dimensional elsewise. Fantasy is a great player, but he is the only great player on their terran line. Canata CAN win sometimes, but I'd barely rank him over Hoejja. Their zerg line is about as bad as KT's. Kwanro, like Action, alleviated the pain, but that's not enough to call it competent. Best is good, very good at PvT and alright at PvP, passable PvZ (people hate on his PvZ just because it's nowhere near as good as his other matches, not because it's that bad). Bisu, well, I don't buy into the hype and I wouldn't even call him a top 5 protoss right now, honestly, but a lot of people will crucify me for this statement so at the very least he's a good asset to the team.
On the Terran side of things, KT is way ahead. Flash is a terran lineup in and of himself and ForGG is about the same caliber as best, currently -- excellent in the "easy" matchup, alright in his mirror, and questionable in the "weak" matchup. Their protoss lineups are comparable. Bisu obviously CAN be the best out of all of them, but he definitely hasn't shown it lately. Best is probably the most vaunted player, but I'd say Stats/Violet/Tempest is a really strong threesome, especially. My only reservations here is that I think Bisu and Best will play better in the "don't know your opponent," format -- KT had a slight falling out in the later rounds when it was implemented. The non-Flash line started to pick it up in round 5 so that might be cured, but I have my doubts as they don't have the same experience and composure.
Lolzergs. Action and Kwanro are alright, no one else is worth mentioning no matter how much SKT fans want to believe stew and fuck are actually good.
I'd say, like last season, KT and SKT are devastatingly close. I think last season came down to the 1st seed edge -- if SKT had had it then they probably would've won, like KT did. I think it comes down to the maps for the regular rounds between these two. If there's a lot of protoss favored maps I think KT will thrive with 3 capable protoss to SKT's 2, since Flash is good enough to do without favored maps ontop of that. I think if it's more zerg oriented, SKT might do better just because they have enough zergs they're willing to play and zerg maps typically mean protoss dismay, so bad for KT. Terran maps are a bit more even. Flash probably doesn't need the help but put fantasy and forgg on a favored map and they can wreak havoc (fantasy moreso, don't go crazy SKTers!)
Phew, that was a lot on KT and SKT. Star studded and shoe ins for the playoffs right now barring major implosion or PL death.
Onto a team with a little spot in my heart, Woongjin!
Woongjin's playable lineup consists of:
Really, Free, Flying, Zero, Soulkey
Hrm, I like stars guys, but losing Kwanro, MVP and Guemchi did put a dent in them. If that old guard were still here I think they'd have a really solid all around team, but frankly outside of these five all they have are very untested rookies or fading players who got traded away (like sair). I know some people are pointing to honsin or crazyhydra, but I don't really see it. Those two will probably be played but I'm not sure I'd call them assets. I probably should've included CrazyHydra since I included Hoejja and Hyuk and Hydra, the horridly mediocre zerg brigade, but in every list above I did deride all of those players and I left crazy off the list for that point: Stars actually isn't THAT deep. More deep than Oz and Khan, sure, but honestly, Stars is a bit top heavy. In a Bo5 like last season they'd be ungodly scary right now with those 5 up there (hell cut out Flying and that's all you need, 4 absolutely great players), but they suffer. They've got 1 Terran who's about the quality of ForGG (Good at two matchups bad at one), They've got 2 protosses, one seasoned and excellent, the other promising but definitely hasn't really SHOWN his promise since he made splashes last year. 2 straight up, undeniably good zergs to make the second strongest zerg line up right now.
I don't think they have shit on KT head to head, as KT plays best against Zergs for the most part and aren't particularly afraid of anything else, especially coming out of this (Free is great and all but he isn't even necessarily the favorite against half of KT's lineup). They're a good team, they'll probably even make playoffs this time around after picking PL weight-lifter Really, but their depth took a massive hit when they lost kwanro/mvp/guemchi. That's a decent 1/1/1 lineup (well maybe not MVP) that really would've bolstered their new acquisitions. But I think they're in the same boat as Hite Entus despite being kind of the opposite of them: Instead of a bunch of snipers, they've got a topload of good players and some inconsistency at the bottom.
This entire thing is consistent with my view. If playoffs is still six teams I expect KT/SKT/STX to make the top 3 in some order (STX probably second best STX is great at getting almost there and sucking it up), with Woongjin/HiteEntus making up 4th and 5th and I think Wemade or Oz (woo what is that) making up the 6th. I might be biased making this analysis since I already had this sort of idea but that's the best I can see.
Kt will probably be first though. They gave Flash WL twice. 70 wins this season wooooop.
On October 15 2010 17:33 _awake_ wrote: FBH and Much on the same team :O
I wish Samsung KHAN had a stronger lineup...
Chavi's gonna break out this season.
And Stork and Jangbi will keep takin' names. Don't you worry aobut KHAN.
And we've got TurN back too, other teams better be ready to have their faces rocked
Sure hope so. I was sad when TurN entered a slump after showcaseing his hyperagressive style. Shit was FBHesque.
lol how can a player like turn enter a slump hahaha
Well i figured he played some sick games vs some A-teamers and then went on to get trashed in the prelims and dream league. I'll concede that in retrospect slump was the wrong word. =/
On October 15 2010 19:02 Holgerius wrote: ACE just got even more awesome (FBH)! :D Samsung dropped in awesomeness though (no FBH).
On paper KT will roflstomp with a Bo7 format. ^__^ Amazing depth.
How is KT's Bo7 lineup better than SKT, Hite Entus or Stars?
Well it's definitely better than Hite's and Stars, and I think it's damn close with SKT.
I mean, name the playable players on each team and compare them to KT (this is without maps to consider, though, which is very important. We just don't know how the new PL maps will play out).
KT's best players who'll probably get playtime this season are:
Hoejja is obviously the weak link here but that's as solid a Terran/Protoss Lineup there is in the league. Obviously still weak in the zerg department if Action doesn't perform -- tentatively an amazing line up, Action really is the dealbreaker here.
Now, let's take Hite Entus:
Leta, Skyhigh, Snow, Movie, Horang, Hogil, Hydra
While that is actually more players and on the bottom end they're definitely better than Tempest/Hoejja, after Leta the team devolves purely into snipers. The entire Entus part of the line up, now that Effort's gone, all have one good matchup for the most part. Skyhigh TvT, Snow PvT, Movie PvZ (I'll say his PvP ain't bad, though), and well I'm not even sure Hydra's good enough to qualify as a sniper. The same goes for the rest of the hite side, where Horang and Hogil are both almost exclusively vP players.
In a pure KT vs Hite Entus setup, that's not so bad, since KT is very Terran/Protoss heavy and this new Hite Entus is almost exclusively made out of vT and vP experts (hell hite and entus both individually had a history of bothering KT). But overall, especially with regards to other teams who have stronger zergs, Hite Entus isn't nearly as well rounded as KT. I expect Hite Entus to probably make playoffs and lose out in the lower stages (kind of like how Hite and Entus usually do, funnily enough). This is a team very dependent on coaching and how good maps are for snipers, though. VERY finnicky, good potential.
Onto SKT, who do have a very star studded lineup:
Fantasy, ...Canata(cringe, but he did win in playoffs), Bisu Best, Kwanro, S2, Hyuk
Arguably the best protoss lineup (KT has added some shadows to that claim, though), but pretty one dimensional elsewise. Fantasy is a great player, but he is the only great player on their terran line. Canata CAN win sometimes, but I'd barely rank him over Hoejja. Their zerg line is about as bad as KT's. Kwanro, like Action, alleviated the pain, but that's not enough to call it competent. Best is good, very good at PvT and alright at PvP, passable PvZ (people hate on his PvZ just because it's nowhere near as good as his other matches, not because it's that bad). Bisu, well, I don't buy into the hype and I wouldn't even call him a top 5 protoss right now, honestly, but a lot of people will crucify me for this statement so at the very least he's a good asset to the team.
On the Terran side of things, KT is way ahead. Flash is a terran lineup in and of himself and ForGG is about the same caliber as best, currently -- excellent in the "easy" matchup, alright in his mirror, and questionable in the "weak" matchup. Their protoss lineups are comparable. Bisu obviously CAN be the best out of all of them, but he definitely hasn't shown it lately. Best is probably the most vaunted player, but I'd say Stats/Violet/Tempest is a really strong threesome, especially. My only reservations here is that I think Bisu and Best will play better in the "don't know your opponent," format -- KT had a slight falling out in the later rounds when it was implemented. The non-Flash line started to pick it up in round 5 so that might be cured, but I have my doubts as they don't have the same experience and composure.
Lolzergs. Action and Kwanro are alright, no one else is worth mentioning no matter how much SKT fans want to believe stew and fuck are actually good.
I'd say, like last season, KT and SKT are devastatingly close. I think last season came down to the 1st seed edge -- if SKT had had it then they probably would've won, like KT did. I think it comes down to the maps for the regular rounds between these two. If there's a lot of protoss favored maps I think KT will thrive with 3 capable protoss to SKT's 2, since Flash is good enough to do without favored maps ontop of that. I think if it's more zerg oriented, SKT might do better just because they have enough zergs they're willing to play and zerg maps typically mean protoss dismay, so bad for KT. Terran maps are a bit more even. Flash probably doesn't need the help but put fantasy and forgg on a favored map and they can wreak havoc (fantasy moreso, don't go crazy SKTers!)
Phew, that was a lot on KT and SKT. Star studded and shoe ins for the playoffs right now barring major implosion or PL death.
Onto a team with a little spot in my heart, Woongjin!
Woongjin's playable lineup consists of:
Really, Free, Flying, Zero, Soulkey
Hrm, I like stars guys, but losing Kwanro, MVP and Guemchi did put a dent in them. If that old guard were still here I think they'd have a really solid all around team, but frankly outside of these five all they have are very untested rookies or fading players who got traded away (like sair). I know some people are pointing to honsin or crazyhydra, but I don't really see it. Those two will probably be played but I'm not sure I'd call them assets. I probably should've included CrazyHydra since I included Hoejja and Hyuk and Hydra, the horridly mediocre zerg brigade, but in every list above I did deride all of those players and I left crazy off the list for that point: Stars actually isn't THAT deep. More deep than Oz and Khan, sure, but honestly, Stars is a bit top heavy. In a Bo5 like last season they'd be ungodly scary right now with those 5 up there (hell cut out Flying and that's all you need, 4 absolutely great players), but they suffer. They've got 1 Terran who's about the quality of ForGG (Good at two matchups bad at one), They've got 2 protosses, one seasoned and excellent, the other promising but definitely hasn't really SHOWN his promise since he made splashes last year. 2 straight up, undeniably good zergs to make the second strongest zerg line up right now.
I don't think they have shit on KT head to head, as KT plays best against Zergs for the most part and aren't particularly afraid of anything else, especially coming out of this (Free is great and all but he isn't even necessarily the favorite against half of KT's lineup). They're a good team, they'll probably even make playoffs this time around after picking PL weight-lifter Really, but their depth took a massive hit when they lost kwanro/mvp/guemchi. That's a decent 1/1/1 lineup (well maybe not MVP) that really would've bolstered their new acquisitions. But I think they're in the same boat as Hite Entus despite being kind of the opposite of them: Instead of a bunch of snipers, they've got a topload of good players and some inconsistency at the bottom.
This entire thing is consistent with my view. If playoffs is still six teams I expect KT/SKT/STX to make the top 3 in some order (STX probably second best STX is great at getting almost there and sucking it up), with Woongjin/HiteEntus making up 4th and 5th and I think Wemade or Oz (woo what is that) making up the 6th. I might be biased making this analysis since I already had this sort of idea but that's the best I can see.
Kt will probably be first though. They gave Flash WL twice. 70 wins this season wooooop.
Calling Snow still only a sniper is really really lame. Especially if you consider his recent success vs zergs and come on, this guy has like 5 losses to Bisu in PvP alone.
But I agree with Effort gone they lack all around players. Only Leta and Snow are good all round players.
As far as I can tell, only Hite and STX have a sixth player who doesn't show a major drop off in skill from their fifth best player. Woongjin still have to play Crazy-Hydra or Sair if the game goes to a sixth set, same with KT and Tempest, SKT and Canata/S2, etc..
i knew it would be violet and midas as captains! ok and about Reach, he has 2 weeks left in his military service, so that's why he's not on ace. There's no way that somebody who only would be around for 1 or 2 games is going to be on a team. And, since he's still in the Air Force for 2 weeks, that's why he's not on KT. So, we don't know anything about whether or not he's switching to sc2 yet, but since he told me last week that he's going back to KT when he's discharged, I think I'm going to believe him.
On October 15 2010 22:25 Holgerius wrote: Recent success vs Zerg? Winning two games vs an SKT Zerg is success in your eyes? O__o
Snow has a lot to prove before I'll start considering him a solid player.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
And guess what, that is KT's half lineup. Snow used to be under 30% in PvZ, now he's 50. And his PvPs vs Bisu were damn close too.
He has played 12 games in total in PvZ for christ sake (and almost all of them are vs terrible players anyway). Trying to argue that he's good and solid based on that sample pool is silly. Trying to argue that he's crap is pretty silly as well. I'm simply saying that Snow has thus far done absolutely nothing notable outside of his awesome PvT wins, and he has to prove himself before we can make any type of proper judgement about him. You try to make it sound like he's already some established top player. Guess what; he's not.
And I really wouldn't call Forgg solid btw; few players have such a huge skillgap between their best possible performances and their worst. One day he beats JD, the next he loses to Hogil. But he is far more proven than a player like Snow. ^__^
On October 15 2010 22:25 Holgerius wrote: Recent success vs Zerg? Winning two games vs an SKT Zerg is success in your eyes? O__o
Snow has a lot to prove before I'll start considering him a solid player.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
And guess what, that is KT's half lineup. Snow used to be under 30% in PvZ, now he's 50. And his PvPs vs Bisu were damn close too.
He has played 12 games in total in PvZ for christ sake (and almost all of them are vs terrible players anyway). Trying to argue that he's good and solid based on that sample pool is silly. Trying to argue that he's crap is pretty silly as well. I'm simply saying that Snow has thus far done absolutely nothing notable outside of his awesome PvT wins, and he has to prove himself before we can make any type of proper judgement about him. You try to make it sound like he's already some established top player. Guess what; he's not.
And neither are Tempest, Hoejja, forgg (post arena) or Action. So why do you call KT's lineup deep? Or let me quote "On paper KT will roflstomp with a Bo7 format." With what, three players alone (Flash, Stats, ~Violet)?
And Snow's Dream league record includes many A-teamers and he still was unbeaten.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
Just throwing it out there is no reason to call any of the players you just listed as solid. Tempest is randomly awesome or awful, same with Forgg, Hoejja is perpetually awful but can squeak an awesome win sometimes, and Action's hive tech play is the complete opposite of his lair tech play and the reason of his failures.
If the stars align, KT will do well, if they don't welp Flash carry the weight boy.
On October 15 2010 22:25 Holgerius wrote: Recent success vs Zerg? Winning two games vs an SKT Zerg is success in your eyes? O__o
Snow has a lot to prove before I'll start considering him a solid player.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
And guess what, that is KT's half lineup. Snow used to be under 30% in PvZ, now he's 50. And his PvPs vs Bisu were damn close too.
He has played 12 games in total in PvZ for christ sake (and almost all of them are vs terrible players anyway). Trying to argue that he's good and solid based on that sample pool is silly. Trying to argue that he's crap is pretty silly as well. I'm simply saying that Snow has thus far done absolutely nothing notable outside of his awesome PvT wins, and he has to prove himself before we can make any type of proper judgement about him. You try to make it sound like he's already some established top player. Guess what; he's not.
And neither are Tempest, Hoejja, forgg (post arena) or Action. So why do you call KT's lineup deep? Or let me quote "On paper KT will roflstomp with a Bo7 format." With what, three players alone (Flash, Stats, ~Violet)?
And Snow's Dream league record includes many A-teamers and he still was unbeaten.
Protip: Every lineup has massive weaknesses after their 3rd best player or thereabouts. Look at SKT for christ's sake.
KT can have a slew of massively flawed players but that still makes them deep if they are comparatively as good, or better, than the opposition's weaker players. If you go pair Forgg against Hyuk or Canata, for example, you can probably expect him to win even if he's a pretty awful player a lot of the time.
Flash is by far the best player in the world. Stats is most certainly looking like a new top notch player with no real weakness. Forgg/Violet are seasoned veterans who has been around the scene for a long time and have both proven that they're good players (Violet is like 60% since the begining of '09 in case you didn't know). Action is a fresh and exciting player who has displayed some absolutely ridiculous S-class level skills in some areas and could turn into a monster with some refinement (although this is partly speculation of course, but I do think he has sick potential). Tempest/Hoejja are certainly not worse than any other teams 6th player.
They have the depth, they have (if Action delivers that is) good players of all races and they have the bonjwa in their line-up in case of ace games. I think KT are strong favourites to win again.
And I guess we'll have to wait and see when it comes to Snow. ^__^
On October 15 2010 22:25 Holgerius wrote: Recent success vs Zerg? Winning two games vs an SKT Zerg is success in your eyes? O__o
Snow has a lot to prove before I'll start considering him a solid player.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
And guess what, that is KT's half lineup. Snow used to be under 30% in PvZ, now he's 50. And his PvPs vs Bisu were damn close too.
The problem is Snow might be CJ's number two player. Unless Skyhigh's or Movie's form improves that's going to be a huge responsibility. KT has 2 players who are clearly better than Snow and 3 more who are around his level or slightly better (fOrGG, Violet and Action). FWIW fOrGG and Violet _are_ solid and the rest don't really need to be. They just need to pick up a few wins here and there.
Having a deep lineup is great but you need to win at least a few games at the top too. And while Leta is a great player he's not one of the best aces out there. I feel like CJ needs at least one or two players to improve drastically if they are to have a shot at the title. Of course their lineup is deep enough that it might just happen.
On October 15 2010 22:58 Holgerius wrote: And I really wouldn't call Forgg solid btw; few players have such a huge skillgap between their best possible performances and their worst. One day he beats JD, the next he loses to Hogil. But he is far more proven than a player like Snow. ^__^
I think he's solid enough for a team format. He can be played in any matchup, he can snipe top players and he'll have great results against fillers. I doubt he's going to slump again like he did in OZ. Sure, there's a big gap between his best and his worst, but when your best is winning a starleague that's ok.
On October 15 2010 22:25 Holgerius wrote: Recent success vs Zerg? Winning two games vs an SKT Zerg is success in your eyes? O__o
Snow has a lot to prove before I'll start considering him a solid player.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
And guess what, that is KT's half lineup. Snow used to be under 30% in PvZ, now he's 50. And his PvPs vs Bisu were damn close too.
Tempest manhandled an SKTzerg, too, and I didn't sing his graces either, just nominally mentioned him as part of the lineup -- though Wax is right about Tempest being a definite drop off from the absolutely solid Flash/ForGG/Violet/Stats/Action lineup.
Snow is better than tempest, but he is not all around solid. I believe he's, say, a better specialty player than a loadbearing player who can be played more flexibly like Stats or Leta. The problem is is that Hite Entus has an abundance of snipers and that takes away from Snow's PvT specialization.
He is absolutely capable of beating a zerg sometimes. But he's not proven to be even mildly consistent or good at it. I mean, no more than anyone else who beats soo and s2.
edit: also you derided ForGG. I don't get that. ForGG is well proven in his TvZ and TvT. His TvP is shaky but I wouldn't even begin to call it as shaky as Snow's PvZ. Snow will most likely develop into a better player given time, but for this season it's silly to say he's more of an asset than ForGG to a team.
Also, no one is saying Snow is worse than Hoejja or tempest. I wrote a whole lot of words and I didn't go into a diatribe on your favorite players individually because I was doing my best to be nominally unbiased. Snow is a greater player than KT's bottom 2. He's probably the #2 all around player on his team, but that is honestly not saying much because Hitentus is basically what CJ was if you replace Effort with Leta and add MOAR SNIPAHS.
KT is deep in the sense that, if you ranked their players 1 2 3 4 5 6 with every other team's 1 2 3 4 5 6 they'd probably come out on top or fairly even to everyone but STX, and maybe Woongjin and SKT.
I remember awhile back I was hoping KT would acquire Action, I was dead sure he would eventually become an S Class zerg (heck he already has the best ZvT in the scene) and it seems like my dream came true.
KT has a pretty deep line up right now. Flash/Violet/Stats/ForGG/Action is about as good as it gets.
A potential problem area would be in the 6th man slot, but I don't have any doubts that Tempest, Hoejja and Anyppi can step up and do adequately. I'm mostly pining my hopes on Tempest, he seems to have changed his attitude towards his games in 2010 and started to take things seriously. That, coupled with his amazing storms and good corsair play, I think we can expect some good games from him. Hoejja would be a great protoss sniper, but with KT having no problems against protoss (Stats/Violet/Tempest are all >60% against protoss, Flash is the best TvPer of all time), he will struggle to find his niche. He is undoubtedly a talented player, but whether he can produce what us KT fans know he is capable of is a big question mark. Still, I'm optimistic. Anyppi on the other hand, is a raw talent that I have high hopes of. + Show Spoiler +
In his debut game against a seasoned veteran, he showed great macro and decent game sense. If he can continue to develop KT will have another protoss star on their hands.
As a KT fan, I have to say I'm absolutely ecstatic at the rolster(lol sorry, can't resist) that KT has.
I suppose the other contenders would be SKT and Woongjin, they have great depth as well, but I suppose KT would edge them considering Flash would win KT the set when it comes to the Ace match.
On October 15 2010 22:25 Holgerius wrote: Recent success vs Zerg? Winning two games vs an SKT Zerg is success in your eyes? O__o
Snow has a lot to prove before I'll start considering him a solid player.
If you dont call Snow solid then there is no reason to call Tempest, forgg, Hoejja or Action (and maybe even Violet) solid.
And guess what, that is KT's half lineup. Snow used to be under 30% in PvZ, now he's 50. And his PvPs vs Bisu were damn close too.
Tempest manhandled an SKTzerg, too, and I didn't sing his graces either, just nominally mentioned him as part of the lineup -- though Wax is right about Tempest being a definite drop off from the absolutely solid Flash/ForGG/Violet/Stats/Action lineup.
Snow is better than tempest, but he is not all around solid. I believe he's, say, a better specialty player than a loadbearing player who can be played more flexibly like Stats or Leta. The problem is is that Hite Entus has an abundance of snipers and that takes away from Snow's PvT specialization.
He is absolutely capable of beating a zerg sometimes. But he's not proven to be even mildly consistent or good at it. I mean, no more than anyone else who beats soo and s2.
edit: also you derided ForGG. I don't get that. ForGG is well proven in his TvZ and TvT. His TvP is shaky but I wouldn't even begin to call it as shaky as Snow's PvZ. Snow will most likely develop into a better player given time, but for this season it's silly to say he's more of an asset than ForGG to a team.
Also, no one is saying Snow is worse than Hoejja or tempest. I wrote a whole lot of words and I didn't go into a diatribe on your favorite players individually because I was doing my best to be nominally unbiased. Snow is a greater player than KT's bottom 2. He's probably the #2 all around player on his team, but that is honestly not saying much because Hitentus is basically what CJ was if you replace Effort with Leta and add MOAR SNIPAHS.
KT is deep in the sense that, if you ranked their players 1 2 3 4 5 6 with every other team's 1 2 3 4 5 6 they'd probably come out on top or fairly even to everyone but STX, and maybe Woongjin and SKT.
Dude what are you talking about. Snow's PvZ is at least two classes better than forgg's TvP. Snow rarely looked bad in his losses, forgg looks horrible in the majority of his TvP. You must have missed Snow being the only solid player apart from Effort in CJ. Without Snow we wouldnt even have been in post-season. So yes, Snow is contributing more than forgg.
Just cause he can sometimes play decent vs Kal doesnt mean he is any good in this matchup. Snow is at least as good as Violet and only worse than Flash and Stats. forgg's time is long over.
And of course KT fares better than all other teams since their 1>>>>>> all others.
Beating Kwanro in a +20 minute game is not the same as beating Free in his best matchup, when Free was obviously the #1 toss last season. ForGG is just as capable if not moreso in TvP than Snow is in PvZ. Period. I'm not saying ForGG is a necessarily better player than Snow, but he is the same kind of player. Snow can snipe Flash? ForGG can snipe Jaedong. Snow's got okay PvP but gets manhandled by Bisu? Well ForGG has alright TvT but got manhandled by Flash. Snow kind of sucks at PvZ but can scrape wins against shit players and sometimes beat alright ZvPers like Kwanro and Hero? Well ForGG kind of sucks against protoss but can sometimes beat amazing players like Free and Kal. ForGG has a slight edge and I think that's more due to experience than skill.
On October 16 2010 00:41 SuperArc wrote: Snow's PvZ is at least two classes better than forgg's TvP.
Wow how can you even start to claim that? How many games of PvZ has Snow played exactly? I am in no way slighting Snow's PvZ, but you're considering too small a sample size even if you can quantify how much Snow is better than ForGG comparing the different matchups. In other news, ForGG is extremely reliable in TvT and TvZ, the latter matchup in which he can be considered to be S class.
On October 16 2010 00:41 SuperArc wrote: And of course KT fares better than all other teams since their 1>>>>>> all others.
Not to mention KT's 2,3,4,5 > most of the others too bar a few teams. So what's your point?
On October 16 2010 00:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: Beating Kwanro in a +20 minute game is not the same as beating Free in his best matchup, when Free was obviously the #1 toss last season. ForGG is just as capable if not moreso in TvP than Snow is in PvZ. Period. I'm not saying ForGG is a necessarily better player than Snow, but he is the same kind of player. Snow can snipe Flash? ForGG can snipe Jaedong. Snow's got okay PvP but gets manhandled by Bisu? Well ForGG has alright TvT but got manhandled by Flash. Snow kind of sucks at PvZ but can scrape wins against shit players and sometimes beat alright ZvPers like Kwanro and Hero? Well ForGG kind of sucks against protoss but can sometimes beat amazing players like Free and Kal. ForGG has a slight edge and I think that's more due to experience than skill.
Maybe stealing flash's build orders, too.
Actually I'd rate Snow's PvZ higher than his PvP. Especially based on the quality of his games. Kinda shows that you didnt watch Snow's games.
I did, but he played an SKT Zerg. Unless you think Tempest has amazing PvZ, rofl.
I watched the games live and I still remember the comment I made. Snow seems mechanically sound, his macro is good and his unit composition is fine, but the kid has absolutely horrible decision making in PvZ and that makes him unbelievably vulnerable to anything that isn't precisely within his game image.
Uhhh he made plenty of units in those games. He also harassed in the game against the SKTzergs but I mean, that was my point, it was the exact same quality of gameplay that tempest showed. Snow's PvZ is sixth player level when he's his team's #2. :>
Honestly, in that game against Tempest s2 played like shit, which I realized after watching it over again. Soo played a pretty mediocre game against Snow, but I'd honestly say Snow is better simply because he's a dream league bonjwa and Tempest has yet to prove himself against zergs of a decent level. Although Snow hasn't shown himself to be any good at PvP yet.
On October 16 2010 00:57 TwoToneTerran wrote: Uhhh he made plenty of units in those games. He also harassed in the game against the SKTzergs but I mean, that was my point, it was the exact same quality of gameplay that tempest showed. Snow's PvZ is sixth player level when he's his team's #2. :>
Snow's PvZ is sixth player level? lol Watch all of Snow's games and come back here and say his PvP (which is not sixth player level) is better than his PvZ.
On October 16 2010 00:57 TwoToneTerran wrote: Uhhh he made plenty of units in those games. He also harassed in the game against the SKTzergs but I mean, that was my point, it was the exact same quality of gameplay that tempest showed. Snow's PvZ is sixth player level when he's his team's #2. :>
Snow's PvZ is sixth player level? lol Watch all of Snow's games and come back here and say his PvP (which is not sixth player level) is better than his PvZ.
So...you're agreeing with me that Snow is primarly a PvT sniper with potential in his other matchups? Because that's what I said. I still think his PvP will prove more consistent than his PvZ, his recent games have just had a massive delineation in the skill levels he played against betwixt the two MUs.
On October 16 2010 01:06 Lightwip wrote: Honestly, in that game against Tempest s2 played like shit, which I realized after watching it over again. Soo played a pretty mediocre game against Snow, but I'd honestly say Snow is better simply because he's a dream league bonjwa and Tempest has yet to prove himself against zergs of a decent level. Although Snow hasn't shown himself to be any good at PvP yet.
Erm uh Tempest beat Hogil recently and knocked Zero out of Gom3. Knocked Jaedong out of Gom2(He also beat Soulkey recently but Soulkey is largely untested). He is by no means consistent but the guy has taken some pretty great games off some pretty great ZvPers.That consistency problem is why I rate him so low despite me thinking highly of him.
TBH, I think the teams are way more balanced now that Estro players got drafted out and Hite/Entus merged. I can name 3-4 solid/promising players on every team now (aside from ACE). KT and SKT1 still look the most OP though, with at least 5 big names each. Should be an exciting season.
On October 15 2010 16:53 GTR wrote: Samsung KHAN Stork, JangBi, great
On October 16 2010 02:21 matjlav wrote: Wait wut? Pusan's a coach now?
He was the closest thing MBC had to a decent Protoss -_-
Pretty sure he went to the army.
On October 16 2010 01:17 TwoToneTerran wrote: Erm uh Tempest beat Hogil recently and knocked Zero out of Gom3. Knocked Jaedong out of Gom2(He also beat Soulkey recently but Soulkey is largely untested). He is by no means consistent but the guy has taken some pretty great games off some pretty great ZvPers.That consistency problem is why I rate him so low despite me thinking highly of him.
Honestly, considering Hogil isn't some amazing player and that most of his impressive wins were over a year ago, he's really untested. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's bad, but he hasn't really played enough for me to judge. Until he shows something impressive, I'd really consider him a pretty mediocre player. He hasn't shown any particularly amazing gameplay recently either. I'd put him about on the level of s2: capable, although he has yet to show consistency.
Seriously, KT fanboys. Stats, Violet and Tempest is the more successful protoss lineup this seaon?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY? I mean Stats and Violet are decent, but seriously?!?!? Tempest?!?!?!?!? Really?!?!?!
SKT AND Samsung has brilliant protoss lines. And to those of you who says Bisu still suck, he was prepping for 3 leagues, and although he did get knocked out of the MSL and OSL, his record in the playoffs was amazing. Yes Stats beat him, but considering how even Stats himself said the strategy was taylored for Bisu, AND Stat B.O. raped him in the playoffs since Bisu went 2 gate DTs, I would say Bisu still has it. He might not be at full strength, but he is certainly above the level of Stats and Violet, and.......Tempest...................=.=
On October 16 2010 01:17 TwoToneTerran wrote: Erm uh Tempest beat Hogil recently and knocked Zero out of Gom3. Knocked Jaedong out of Gom2(He also beat Soulkey recently but Soulkey is largely untested). He is by no means consistent but the guy has taken some pretty great games off some pretty great ZvPers.That consistency problem is why I rate him so low despite me thinking highly of him.
Honestly, considering Hogil isn't some amazing player and that most of his impressive wins were over a year ago, he's really untested. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's bad, but he hasn't really played enough for me to judge. Until he shows something impressive, I'd really consider him a pretty mediocre player. He hasn't shown any particularly amazing gameplay recently either. I'd put him about on the level of s2: capable, although he has yet to show consistency.
Hogil has been vaunted as the best ZvP sniper around for awhile. It wasn't a mistake I included him. But the games were awhile ago. My point was Tempest isn't totally untested against tough competition in his entirety. People are acting like he's a new player or something when he's actually pretty seasoned.
On October 16 2010 02:27 renzy wrote: Seriously, KT fanboys. Stats, Violet and Tempest is the more successful protoss lineup this seaon?!?!?!? SERIOUSLY? I mean Stats and Violet are decent, but seriously?!?!? Tempest?!?!?!?!? Really?!?!?!
SKT AND Samsung has brilliant protoss lines. And to those of you who says Bisu still suck, he was prepping for 3 leagues, and although he did get knocked out of the MSL and OSL, his record in the playoffs was amazing. Yes Stats beat him, but considering how even Stats himself said the strategy was taylored for Bisu, AND Stat B.O. raped him in the playoffs since Bisu went 2 gate DTs, I would say Bisu still has it. He might not be at full strength, but he is certainly above the level of Stats and Violet, and.......Tempest...................=.=
You know, Violet said something pretty insightful right before the finals. A lot of people hyped the SKT protosses, saying they were the best, but he proudly pointed out that KT tosses (Mostly him and Stats but Tempest had a good record too) were the best protoss lineup of the season. Not only did they win more games, they beat out their SKT competition more often than not, most recently in both R5 and the Finals.
Stats is better than both Bisu and Best. I won't even flinch in saying that. Maybe not at their respective peaks, but they've shown very little of those peaks in recent times, whereas Stats is just getting better.
On October 16 2010 02:42 TwoToneTerran wrote:You know, Violet said something pretty insightful right before the finals. A lot of people hyped the SKT protosses, saying they were the best, but he proudly pointed out that KT tosses (Mostly him and Stats but Tempest had a good record too) were the best protoss lineup of the season. Not only did they win more games, they beat out their SKT competition more often than not, most recently in both R5 and the Finals.
Stats is better than both Bisu and Best. I won't even flinch in saying that. Maybe not at their respective peaks, but they've shown very little of those peaks in recent times, whereas Stats is just getting better.
Looking at their records, I can really say that I think that their only GOOD matchup is PvP. Admittedly, they did win quite a bit against the SKT tosses in R5, but a good number of those are simply BO advantages(the one in the finals was exploiting 2 gate DT) rather than more impressive play. But their other matchups are quite weak. However far they strayed from their peaks, I can tell you that Bisu sure as hell wouldn't lose a series to Hydra and that Best is much better at PvT than both of them.
On October 16 2010 03:15 Slow Motion wrote: Bo7 and many teams got deeper after merging/drafting. I think Oz is gonna be completely screwed this season.
Oz is still better off than Khan. Even if FBH hadn't gone to ACE yet, Jaedong OZ > StorKhan. Jangbi has been very mediocre for a long while now, and great is nothing to write home about. I hope Khan's recruits can produce results fast or they're really hosed.
On October 16 2010 02:42 TwoToneTerran wrote: Stats is better than both Bisu and Best. I won't even flinch in saying that. Maybe not at their respective peaks, but they've shown very little of those peaks in recent times, whereas Stats is just getting better.
One has to be delusional to say that Stats is better than the greatest protoss of all times, or the monster macro protoss. Stats is a really solid, good protoss player, but he doesn't match Bisu or Best yet.
Oz (JD, hiya, and backho FTW) Woongin (free, zero, and really FTW) SKT (BEESUIT) ACE (I gotta see FBH do the salute and high five Much) Khan (I wish Stork had some back up) Fox (Hope BaBy will own some more) MBC (Sea is cool... everyone else though bleh) hite (kind of like snow...) STX (Kal dissapoints too much and calm is a clam) KT (Action + Flash = instant hate)
On October 16 2010 02:13 teamsolid wrote: TBH, I think the teams are way more balanced now that Estro players got drafted out and Hite/Entus merged. I can name 3-4 solid/promising players on every team now (aside from ACE). KT and SKT1 still look the most OP though, with at least 5 big names each. Should be an exciting season.
Now that Boxer isn't on T1 I have to root for another team. I have to find the balance between not being a sellout bandwagoner (SKT, KT) and not rooting for a team that is only going to give me bad moments. If Reach was still in ACE I would choose them... But Yellow isn't enough.
I took a cursory glance at the rosters, I don't know what's been happening in SC lately, I don't know anything about this SC2 bullshit, but I have to say - these rosters and the fact that some teams aren't here makes me interested in this Proleague season
I think a lot of people are overestimating Action still. He's got awesome potential, and enough skill to be assured a regular starting spot, but I don't think he's gonna be more than a 55% or so win rate player for round one. I expect him to deliver similar results to luxury for the near future, and then we'll see if playing at KT develops his potential.
On October 16 2010 06:45 Waxangel wrote: I think a lot of people are overestimating Action still. He's got awesome potential, and enough skill to be assured a regular starting spot, but I don't think he's gonna be more than a 55% or so win rate player for round one. I expect him to deliver similar results to luxury for the near future, and then we'll see if playing at KT develops his potential.
Given that Luxury was (technically) good enough to win a MSL, I think that's good enough for KT for now.
Essentially only Hogil, Leta, Horang2 and Puma made in on the rooster. The other player to survive judging from the Hite Entus entry on TLPD Britney survived and that's it right? No Tazza or the Sparkyz's zerg players that looked like mini July, Clay, and I think there was another. Oh well, I hope they do well on this team.
Changed my profile favorite team to Hite Entus = CJ logo, hopefully there is a new team logo? Maybe new uniforms too?
On October 16 2010 06:45 Waxangel wrote: I think a lot of people are overestimating Action still. He's got awesome potential, and enough skill to be assured a regular starting spot, but I don't think he's gonna be more than a 55% or so win rate player for round one. I expect him to deliver similar results to luxury for the near future, and then we'll see if playing at KT develops his potential.
Honestly, a winrate above 50% is all I'm hoping for, for now. That would already be a huge improvement over the last rounds of last season, when you already knew you were getting a loss whenever KT sent out 815, Firefist, and to a slightly lesser extent Hoejja. Especially against terran.
Uhm, guys, where's the Liquibet for this season? Don't tell me all the staff think that the league will die in the middle of the road hence no Liquibet for BW?
On October 16 2010 02:42 TwoToneTerran wrote:You know, Violet said something pretty insightful right before the finals. A lot of people hyped the SKT protosses, saying they were the best, but he proudly pointed out that KT tosses (Mostly him and Stats but Tempest had a good record too) were the best protoss lineup of the season. Not only did they win more games, they beat out their SKT competition more often than not, most recently in both R5 and the Finals.
Stats is better than both Bisu and Best. I won't even flinch in saying that. Maybe not at their respective peaks, but they've shown very little of those peaks in recent times, whereas Stats is just getting better.
Looking at their records, I can really say that I think that their only GOOD matchup is PvP. Admittedly, they did win quite a bit against the SKT tosses in R5, but a good number of those are simply BO advantages(the one in the finals was exploiting 2 gate DT) rather than more impressive play. But their other matchups are quite weak. However far they strayed from their peaks, I can tell you that Bisu sure as hell wouldn't lose a series to Hydra and that Best is much better at PvT than both of them.
Rofl, what, Bisu wouldn't lose a series to a no name zerg? Come on now, that's been his MO for like a year now.
On October 16 2010 02:42 TwoToneTerran wrote: Stats is better than both Bisu and Best. I won't even flinch in saying that. Maybe not at their respective peaks, but they've shown very little of those peaks in recent times, whereas Stats is just getting better.
One has to be delusional to say that Stats is better than the greatest protoss of all times, or the monster macro protoss. Stats is a really solid, good protoss player, but he doesn't match Bisu or Best yet.
Stats is better at PvP and PvZ than Best, Best's PvT is immaculate but it's not like it's in lieu of Stats being horrible at the matchup -- he's damned good at every protoss matchup and he seems to be the only protoss not named Stork who has this quality. Bisu PvT has been worse than both Stats and Violet in recent times and his PvP is at best comparable. You can't say with a straight face that in CURRENT form that the SKT tosses are better.
They may end up better this season as Bisu is a giant question mark, but his league runs didn't inspire much confidence. It seems like his only stable matchup is PvP, which he isn't even particularly better at since KT tosses have wicked PvP records.
As far as result goes, Kwanro>Action in term rankings, achievements and win rates. Kwanro is an excellent all round player with no weak matchup.
Action, on the other hand, worth little of mentioning except for his late game against Terran. If it were not for that one single match against Flash, few here on TL would even care about him.
Let's not forget that SKT displayed great strength last season despite the dismal performance of its Protoss lineup throughout pretty much the entire season.
This season is different. Fantasy, Bisu and Best are all looking stronger than their spring season selves. And this time, we have Kwanro, who can kwanroll even the best of the best.
Btw, this bo7 format may actually work in favor of ACE. BO5 format placed greater emphasis on the top tier one or two ace players in a team, the type which ACE did not have. However, let's face it, the lower tier portion of teams like Oz or MBC is little better than ACE's players.
Yeah man it's not like Action 3-0'd his OSL group filled with 3 top class players from each race recently and only got knocked out because he ran into Jaedong.
On October 16 2010 08:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah man it's not like Action 3-0'd his OSL group filled with 3 top class players from each race recently and only got knocked out because he ran into Jaedong.
On October 16 2010 08:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah man it's not like Action 3-0'd his OSL group filled with 3 top class players from each race recently and only got knocked out because he ran into Jaedong.
1. He lost to Bisu 2. ZvZ/Effort didn't play that well 3. Zergliner, although it was a decent game regardless. Not really.
hrmmm...I found a lot of the choices interesting for the rosters, but namely: 1. Hyuk as SKT captain (woot!) 2. FBH and much on same team (i can only imagine the awkwardness during practice) 3. Tossgirl on STX Roster (<3333333)
On October 16 2010 08:28 dukethegold wrote: Meh, KT fanboys here are all like Action>Kwanro.
As far as result goes, Kwanro>Action in term rankings, achievements and win rates. Kwanro is an excellent all round player with no weak matchup.
Exactly, Kwanro is going to be an immediate improvement and game winner for SKT, while Action is just going to start off as an adequate zerg player.
I think it was a good move on both sides. SKT had an immediate hole in their zerg lineup that needed to be filled, and they got exactly what they needed. A competent player who gets you a decent amount of wins, but not spectacular.
KT was already a strong team, and they could afford to take a risk with a player who's mostly potential. Sure they'll be overpaying for Action if he doesn't turn out to be what we all want him to become, but he'll still be an adequate zerg spot filler on an already powerful team.
Still kind of amazed how weak Hite Entus' Zerg line up is looking back on things both teams had strong Zerg lineups. Sparkyz had a strong Z lineup with the twins but then transfer and scandal killed them including Type-B. CJ Entus had Savior the Zerg Bonjwa then Effort and Kwanro for a ridiculous strong Z lineup which also got killed due to scandal, retirement and transfer.
Oh well I guess they can't have a strong Z lineup but their T and P is excellent.
On October 16 2010 08:28 dukethegold wrote: Meh, KT fanboys here are all like Action>Kwanro.
As far as result goes, Kwanro>Action in term rankings, achievements and win rates. Kwanro is an excellent all round player with no weak matchup.
Exactly, Kwanro is going to be an immediate improvement and game winner for SKT, while Action is just going to start off as an adequate zerg player.
I think it was a good move on both sides. SKT had an immediate hole in their zerg lineup that needed to be filled, and they got exactly what they needed. A competent player who gets you a decent amount of wins, but not spectacular.
KT was already a strong team, and they could afford to take a risk with a player who's mostly potential. Sure they'll be overpaying for Action if he doesn't turn out to be what we all want him to become, but he'll still be an adequate zerg spot filler on an already powerful team.
Wow so true. This is exactly how I see it. There was so much bias in favour of Action and on the other hand hatred for Kwanro. Kwanro is a really decent performer, especially in Proaleague. Whereas Action is mostly potential as you say.
As far as result goes, Kwanro>Action in term rankings, achievements and win rates. Kwanro is an excellent all round player with no weak matchup.
Action, on the other hand, worth little of mentioning except for his late game against Terran. If it were not for that one single match against Flash, few here on TL would even care about him.
Let's not forget that SKT displayed great strength last season despite the dismal performance of its Protoss lineup throughout pretty much the entire season.
This season is different. Fantasy, Bisu and Best are all looking stronger than their spring season selves. And this time, we have Kwanro, who can kwanroll even the best of the best.
Btw, this bo7 format may actually work in favor of ACE. BO5 format placed greater emphasis on the top tier one or two ace players in a team, the type which ACE did not have. However, let's face it, the lower tier portion of teams like Oz or MBC is little better than ACE's players.
I pretty much agree with all this. And I think you're right, the bo7 format could really help Ace given the lack of depth for a lot of teams. Agree with your prediction for SKT1 as well, they just keep looking stronger and stronger and Kwanro's addition should make them very powerful this season.
On October 16 2010 08:40 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah man it's not like Action 3-0'd his OSL group filled with 3 top class players from each race recently and only got knocked out because he ran into Jaedong.
1. He lost to Bisu 2. ZvZ/Effort didn't play that well 3. Zergliner, although it was a decent game regardless. Not really.
dreamliner match was actually a showcase of action's brilliance. He took down leta's l33t wraith build, that had demolished all zergs before him on that map.
LOL, Hite Entus now has a PvX specialist for every MU. Horang2 for PvP, Movie for PvZ, and Snow for PvT, wtf. With Effort gone though, the lineup suddenly looks shaky, though Leta should make up for that...hopefully?
On October 17 2010 00:24 Kimaker wrote: LOL, Hite Entus now has a PvX specialist for every MU. Horang2 for PvP, Movie for PvZ, and Snow for PvT, wtf. With Effort gone though, the lineup suddenly looks shaky, though Leta should make up for that...hopefully?
It's crazy to think how good Hite Entus would be if Effort hadn't retired. Effort/Leta would undoubtedly be the best 1-2 combo, both players are very capable of getting 40+ win seasons.
EPT
YellOw
Much, 
RuBy, 
Speed (김도욱), 
Ryul2 (이병렬)
Notice (김기훈), 
Wouldnt surprise me if you hadnt seen more than three of his games (arena msl final)
