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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 02 2010 09:41 FishForThought wrote: It is like what if the NHL won't let players go off and play in the Olympics? The equivlent to playing in the Olympics would be WCG which KeSPA has had no problem with.... | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 02 2010 21:40 infinity2k9 wrote: The equivlent to playing in the Olympics would be WCG which KeSPA has had no problem with.... KeSPA also had no problem with Blizzcon all those years until the shit started hitting the fan. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
ask urself why? cause its in a freaking hype cause blizzard is throwing money at it. so the hype wont stop. and since the beta iam sooooooo sure that if the game would be called "jew war 2k" or whatever. atleast 50% of the people would call thsi game shit. wouldn even touch it. but because it has the "starcraft" name and its from blizzard many of this SCII fanboys think they love SCII. but the truth is the love the name and Blizzard but not the game. so wait till the fucking hype its over  or u think its a long term thing 2 throw mass money at it?who the fuck cares about some 80k for the winner tournaments? if they dont get the teams. the salaray and everything. without teams and shit it will sooner or later go down like Wc3. it may live till the next great (mb from blizzard) RTS game. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8025 Posts
On September 02 2010 22:59 rasers wrote: Whats up with the stupid comments "SCII is the most popular RTS game" and shit? ask urself why? cause its in a freaking hype cause blizzard is throwing money at it. so the hype wont stop. and since the beta iam sooooooo sure that if the game would be called "jew war 2k" or whatever. atleast 50% of the people would call thsi game shit. wouldn even touch it. but because it has the "starcraft" name and its from blizzard many of this SCII fanboys think they love SCII. but the truth is the love the name and Blizzard but not the game. so wait till the fucking hype its over or u think its a long term thing 2 throw mass money at it?who the fuck cares about some 80k for the winner tournaments? if they dont get the teams. the salaray and everything. without teams and shit it will sooner or later go down like Wc3. it may live till the next great (mb from blizzard) RTS game. User was temp banned for this post. Wtf "jew war"? That's a pity, cuz the core content of what you said was legit and I kinda agree with it. Blizzard doesn't realize that Kespa is basically the reason why BW has lasted so long. Loads of money in tournaments is nothing if there is no central organization, no teams, no salary, and nobody to organize tournaments when the game will start declining. There wouldn't be OSL, MSL and Shinhan if Kespa was not making so much effort to keep the game alive, to look for sponsor season after season etc... No profit making organization would do that. They would switch to the next popular game. I also agree that BW player wouldn't have even played the game if it hadn't been called Starcraft 2, since it's vastly inferior to the original. Now the thing is that the reason why people switched massively is, precisely, the vast amount of money and tournaments right now. I won't buy any Blizzard product anymore. And I won't make any effort to get interested in their new game. | ||
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junkacc
99 Posts
On September 03 2010 00:04 Biff The Understudy wrote: Wtf "jew war"? That's a pity, cuz the core content of what you said was legit and I kinda agree with it. Blizzard doesn't realize that Kespa is basically the reason why BW has lasted so long. Loads of money in tournaments is nothing if there is no central organization, no teams, no salary, and nobody to organize tournaments when the game will start declining. There wouldn't be OSL, MSL and Shinhan if Kespa was not making so much effort to keep the game alive, to look for sponsor season after season etc... No profit making organization would do that. They would switch to the next popular game. I also agree that BW player wouldn't have even played the game if it hadn't been called Starcraft 2, since it's vastly inferior to the original. Now the thing is that the reason why people switched massively is, precisely, the vast amount of money and tournaments right now. I won't buy any Blizzard product anymore. And I won't make any effort to get interested in their new game. Nice, I wholeheartedly agree, except for the jew part, "Hypecraft" would've suited better. Many here think KeSPA is a evil monolithic entity who imprisons their players and holds Korean e-sports hostage. Nothing can be further from the truth. Think NFL or NBA or Premier League. It's an association with team owners and stakeholders. E-sports is too young and not enough money in it yet to have player associations but it will come if it grows, completing the similarities between KeSPA and the aforementioned associations. Unless Blizzard manages to destroy it that is. GOOOO KeSPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! edit: can't wait for tomorrow's OSL semi's! | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
More to the point though, Gretech seem to be just trying to push it as far as they can to put KeSPA in a concillatory position, this sort of thing happens heavily in high risk/reward business decisions, typically during mergers and buyouts. KeSPA seem to be attempting to leverage public support in order to not concede any power with regards to players and sponsors on the existing leagues, while Gretech are attempting to scare the shit out of KeSPa. Gretech are in the position where they can remove the Proleague and other leagues, in terms of short and long term gain for Gretech themselves it's going to be the best option short of KeSPa completely capitulating. As much as people would like to believe that everyone would boycott the GSL and all this nonsense as a result, it simply won't happen and the vocal minority are not the target of the sponsorship deals that sustain eSports. If they continue to let KeSPA undermine their credibility and more importantly act as a considerately more entrenched and powerful competitor the company will not see the growth that's expected. Of course they'd much rather skip the public relations debaucle that results from this, but they are in the position of having complete power, while KeSPA are relying entirely on the loyalty of constituent sponsors, many of whom have changed significantly over the years and will continue to change. KeSPA, despite their name, are not driven by a unionistic attitude to securing rights and stability for the players, in many ways they've done far more to harm them by institutionalising a system that screws over the vast majority of professional players, so it can be very dangerous to hold them up as a paragon of virtue in comparison to Gretech. The loss of proleague and KeSPA could be the best thing to happen to eSports going forward and it really doesn't mean the end of brood war as a spectator sport. Personally I don't care either way, I prefer knockout tournaments over the long league structure of the Proleague, I find it too hard to keep up with all the games and trends, but I see the appeal and understand people's reactions to the idea that it will be gone. | ||
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Storm[PT]
120 Posts
On September 03 2010 00:48 leakingpear wrote: The loss of proleague and KeSPA could be the best thing to happen to eSports going forward and it really doesn't mean the end of brood war as a spectator sport. I don't quite agree with that. Proleague is the back bone of the professional scene of broodwar. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Personally I don't care either way, I prefer knockout tournaments over the long league structure of the Proleague, I find it too hard to keep up with all the games and trends, but I see the appeal and understand people's reactions to the idea that it will be gone. Proleague is the veyr heart and soul of BW. If Proleauge dies then BW will die. It's existence gives companies a reason to invest in BW still (Hite gets x10 more airtime from PL than Leta appearing in the OSL for instance). It gives commentators real jobs, it gives fans something to cheer for. And after all, PL traditionally is the event that more korean fans follow. So yea, losing PL is a massive deal. | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
edit: That was in response to Storm[PT]. | ||
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Storm[PT]
120 Posts
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FishForThought
Canada88 Posts
On September 02 2010 21:40 infinity2k9 wrote: The equivlent to playing in the Olympics would be WCG which KeSPA has had no problem with.... I used Olympics and NHL as examples because they are direct competition of each other in terms of broadcasting. Also, NHL had to yield to Olympics by stopping all NHL games for the duration of the Olympics. With Papa Blizzard tossing money to GomTV, the prize money and tournament can be bigger than PL, which would attract the top players to attend and conflict with operations of PL. I don't think Blizzard/GomTv are evil. I mean they push for English Commentators and foreigner exposure. Something that Kespa did not even try to do because they were happy with their little bubble of the three leagues. GSL gave team TL, a chance to compete in the Korean scene. If it was Kespa, they would of told TL to ask the 12 pro-gaming team to assimilate them or each member to compete for a pro-gamer license first. Again, I would like advocate that I don't feel pro-gaming and esport are the same thing. I think Blizzard/GomTV is better for esport by hosting easily accessible tournaments and world exposure while Kespa is better for the pro-gaming scene with their 12 elite teams. It would be great if they can each realize their roles and co-exist. | ||
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Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
I don't know why everyone is lumping Gretech in with Blizzard with regards to their negotiation of rights, Blizzard pretty clearly handed off all korean eSports related tasks to Gretech, probably with a series of goals and target payments but it would be extremely unlikely that they would directly influence licensing policy after that initial point. Gretech is more or less the result of Blizzard trying to extend it's IP rights into Korea, many years ago, since a law suit between two different countries, even if they have similar laws or are involved in many international treaties, would be fairly pointless as the courts are unlikely to rule in favor of another country. However to me Gretech is what Kespa should have been X years ago... A partner working with the guys who are making the product, rather than a partner that has been biting and scratching at Blizzard almost the whole way thru to try and make more... Makes me kinda sad that all of this is likely going to be decided by some judge who knows nothing of gaming or esports in general. As much as I feel for the players who have gotten jobs from Kespa teams... I'm not sure it's a good thing for Kespa to keep operating. =/ | ||
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btx0
Germany184 Posts
On September 03 2010 01:29 Plexa wrote: Proleague is the veyr heart and soul of BW. If Proleauge dies then BW will die. It's existence gives companies a reason to invest in BW still (Hite gets x10 more airtime from PL than Leta appearing in the OSL for instance). It gives commentators real jobs, it gives fans something to cheer for. And after all, PL traditionally is the event that more korean fans follow. So yea, losing PL is a massive deal. That is the case now, I agree, but it doesn't mean a sport cannot succeed built only on tournaments, works quite well for tennis (or snooker if you prefer a non mainstream example), though the playtime/match would have to be increased, which wouldn't be a problem if proleague was out of the picture, you could even play matches in several sittings if the "required airtime" was more than the players could handle. | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
On September 03 2010 01:45 Storm[PT] wrote: But the thing is, if proleague dies, OSL would die too; the whole infrastructure would crumble. My implication is that there would be an infrastructure to replace it if there is a significant market that is easily monetised. I could be wrong, Gretech could be the most stubborn and emotionally driven company in the world, but realistically i'd expect that they (or someone licensing from them) would not dream of leaving all the prospective advertising money of an entrenched and popular spectator sport, on the proverbial table. I guess that kind of responds to you too Plexa? I'm just trying to provide some context to the decision making here other than assuming that two large organisations are children fighting over which one has the better toys. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On September 03 2010 01:29 Plexa wrote: Proleague is the veyr heart and soul of BW. If Proleauge dies then BW will die. It's existence gives companies a reason to invest in BW still (Hite gets x10 more airtime from PL than Leta appearing in the OSL for instance). It gives commentators real jobs, it gives fans something to cheer for. And after all, PL traditionally is the event that more korean fans follow. So yea, losing PL is a massive deal. Additionally, Proleague is the only reason progaming teams really exist (as we know them). Individual leagues only show off the top % of players. If progaming teams existed only to train for the top leagues, there would be a lot less of them made of only the top % of players. Lesser players (still A-teamers, but not prize-money quality) would just be wasting their time. With team leagues, a lot more people get to play for the team through the season, and as such need to train in their teams for it. Currently, most teams have around 2-3 "starleague" players that make regular appearances, the rest drop out in the ro32 or prelims. Take proleague away, and progaming teams crumble. Take progaming teams away and individual leagues dwindle down as well. | ||
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leakingpear
United Kingdom302 Posts
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
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LastPrime
United States109 Posts
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On September 03 2010 01:50 btx0 wrote: That is the case now, I agree, but it doesn't mean a sport cannot succeed built only on tournaments, works quite well for tennis (or snooker if you prefer a non mainstream example), though the playtime/match would have to be increased, which wouldn't be a problem if proleague was out of the picture, you could even play matches in several sittings if the "required airtime" was more than the players could handle. the only reason tennis/golf work is that players are paid almost regardless of where they place. even if you dont win or come that close to winning you still get money to support yourself. unless you are willing to split that 80k in descending amounts among the top 16 at the least in every tourny, its not going to work. and 80k split 16 ways becomes much less appealing. | ||
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