|
On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form.
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill.
If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
|
On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form. I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
|
On August 08 2010 05:10 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form. I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
Why fix whats not broken? Bisu used that build on PR many times before and won out regardless because of mechanics (and some mistakes on the opponents part).
|
Don't worry guys, SKT are already champions to us and to the eyes of most of us. Remember that they came out TWICE to the Grand Finals IN A ROW. Not many teams can do that and not to mention we already had a gold last year so they really don't have any bashing rights. Sure KT fans can brag but bashing, no. I'm not bashing at KT nor at KT fans but the moment someone KT bashes us, you gotta remember then how SKT first beaten 5 teams (CJ, FOX, then STX/Khan/estro) before getting to finals preparing each games less than a week then facing KT who were getting helped with 2 other teams (STX and some other team) with preparation from SKT side less than a week while KT had like 3 weeks. So none of them have right to brag about SKT sucks or how KT is superior since I clearly doubt KT can win in the same situation if they were placed 3rd, had to face CJ, FOX, STX/khan/estro then SKT being prepared with 2 other teams with 3 weeks to prepare.
So there, gg SKT. You have proven to me why I should be a SKT fan even more now. Go SKT!!!
|
On August 08 2010 05:10 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form. I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances.
^--- This
Why is Flash, Fantasy, Jaedong, and Stork so good? They adapt their play styles now. I remember when Fantasy ALWAYS did 1 Fac Expo and his opponents destroyed him b/c he never mixed up his build. Now you see Fanta doing 2 rax openings against Zerg, 2 fac pushes on Toss, 14 cc sometimes, and now he's finally getting to that Top S class ranking because it's hard for people to predict. Remember how Bisu became S class a few years ago? New openings, different play, and the such. Now Bisu does the same opening 2 out of 3 games. And Stork is just awesome lately. Flash, he used to suck hard when he would 14 cc. It was so weird but now, he will 8 rax a toss who will 12 nexus and then do it again and then switch to 14 cc just to annoy his opponents.
Bisu is not back until his PvT gets better. He's getting crushed by every Terran in the game right now. I think he needs to practice with Fantasy more.
Flash and Fanta brought back mech play in TvZ and now everyone calls it imba.
Stork brought back the Carrier micro in PvT but Protoss is still imba
Jaedong is just the Dong who can do anything.
Bisu needs to be unpredictable and his play right now in PvT and PvP is predictable. His PvZ is the only thing I've seen where he's been mixing up timings and stuff.
And to use your argument against you, in Bisu's wins against Pure. The only reason he won was because he got Pure's army in a bad spot (small concave). So, I guess a "Flank Order" victory? Come on now.
|
On July 16 2010 13:43 IntoTheWow wrote:
no.
<3 ITW
|
On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form. I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later.
lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
|
On August 09 2010 04:58 flagellum- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill.
If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out
You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle):
Stats had 18-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons.
Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops.
Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.
Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals).
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
|
On August 08 2010 06:50 Tempest[OEC] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 05:10 d_so wrote:On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form. I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances. Why fix whats not broken? Bisu used that build on PR many times before and won out regardless because of mechanics (and some mistakes on the opponents part).
You fix what is not broken because otherwise you are predictable and therefore you get crushed by any well prepared opponent.
QED
|
Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On August 08 2010 06:50 Tempest[OEC] wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 05:10 d_so wrote:On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 08 2010 04:14 TheYango wrote:On August 08 2010 00:03 catabowl wrote:
I think what we learned today is that Bisu is not back. How does a BO loss prove that Bisu is not back? It was an excellent snipe build, given Bisu's recent penchant for DTs in PvP. But I'd hardly say that it reflects too poorly on Bisu's PvP form. I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill. If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. it's not a BO snipe if your opponent does the same thing every game on that map and refuses to adapt to circumstances. Why fix whats not broken? Bisu used that build on PR many times before and won out regardless because of mechanics (and some mistakes on the opponents part).
lol skt fanboys. bisu clearly needed not to do the same thing every damn game
|
Put this away it makes me sad =/
|
On August 09 2010 06:12 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 04:58 flagellum- wrote:On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill.
If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 1 8-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons.Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops.Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals). If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool. The fact that Stats is numerically superior outweighs the fact that he needs to micro. If they had equal troop count then maybe Stats will micro decently? Have you even seen Stat's sexy goon micro in front of Bisu's natural, dancing, taunting Bisu's goons and making him waste storms?
|
I think we forgot that they were wearing Orange.
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 12 2010 22:51 SilverSkyLark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 22:11 iNfeRnaL wrote:
wtf is wrong with SKT being holland fans... holland finished 2nd
|
On August 09 2010 06:12 kmdarkmaster wrote:
If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
Or maybe stats didn't even need to micro because he had such a huge army advantage? Wow way to judge him.
|
On August 09 2010 08:56 SilverSkyLark wrote:I think we forgot that they were wearing Orange. ![[image loading]](http://i36.tinypic.com/zyawx0.jpg) Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 22:51 SilverSkyLark wrote:On July 12 2010 22:11 iNfeRnaL wrote:
wtf is wrong with SKT being holland fans... holland finished 2nd
Well done!
(Also explains why KHAN didn't make it - they added orange to their coats. :/ )
|
On August 09 2010 06:12 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 04:58 flagellum- wrote:On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill.
If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 1 8-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons.Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops.Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals). If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool.
I love how you live in this fantasy land where bisu didn't have reinforcements. Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcements by the time he GG'd. Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
|
fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
On August 09 2010 09:59 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 06:12 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 09 2010 04:58 flagellum- wrote:On August 08 2010 04:24 kmdarkmaster wrote:
I agree. In the final battle we clearly see that Bisu microed better, he lost to superior number of units, not superior skill.
If he didn't get a BO snipe, I think that he could win that battle and get an advantage later. lol were we watching the same game? cuz I saw bisu let all of his dragoons sit through ~5 storms and watch them die, not very much micro goign on there other than him throwing his own storms out You should check the vods before raging on him. At the start of the battle (the initial battle): Stats had 1 8-20 zeals, 8-10 goons, 4 templars and 4 archons.Bisu had 18-20 goons, 4 zeals and 4 templars.
Stats had about 8-10 zeals reinforcing his troops.Bisu had about 1-2 zeals or no reinforcement.Bisu managed to defend the initial attack and the reinforcement. His storm killed templars and at the end (of the initial battle) he still had > 12 goons and 1 templars, while stats had 6 goons and 3 archons and 9-11 zeals (no templars). That was a lot of kills considering the guy with superior number of troops often captivates in this advantage and kill much more than the guys with inferior numbers. And there were not "5 storms" on Bisu goons, there were a lot of storms in front of Bisu goons because there were a mass of Stats zealots there, those storms killed 6 goons but the number of zealots dead is much more than that (Stats templars and 2 goons also died from Bisu's storms and zeals). If this was a battle with equal force, Stats would not have a chance (unless he is Best and can reinforce with hordes of units). Bisu clearly demonstrated this ability to win battle against superior or equal forces many times in the playoff, but I suppose you didn't watch them because you clearly demonstrated your hate toward him in your post loool. I love how you live in this fantasy land where bisu didn't have reinforcements. Bisu had 2 rounds of reinforcements by the time he GG'd. Stats reinforcements were 4 zealots and 4 templars (8 gatess)
Bisu GG'd because Stats' army was already in position .. reinforcements is shit if they are lambs to the slaughter ..
|
On August 09 2010 08:56 SilverSkyLark wrote:I think we forgot that they were wearing Orange. + Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On July 12 2010 22:51 SilverSkyLark wrote:On July 12 2010 22:11 iNfeRnaL wrote:
wtf is wrong with SKT being holland fans... holland finished 2nd
i lol'd
so yea...... KTF ^^
|
Bisu is not back to his prime self, true that.
But it's not because of that loss versus Stats.
KT studied Bisu very well and sniped him off perfectly with Stats. Of course it's also because of Bisu's predictability, which has been making him so vulnerable to lesser tier opponents. Even Kingdom mentioned this in one of his interview, that Bisu relied too much on his mechanic against lesser opponents. He just overwhelmed them with superior multitasking ability. Back then I remember Bisu's PvP was like making units, clash, came out ahead, more reinforcement, and proceed to win the game in every damn game no matter what build oder he made. Though as the game evolves, the average level of multitasking slow increases. Thus, the gap between S-class players and the rest in term of multitasking and mechanic gets smaller. One BO loss can result in a loss instantly.
That DT build was way to obvious. I was praying to God that I would see no Citadel but fuck Bisu did it anyway. I was like "Fuck even I, D- Iccup player, knew that you would go for that build Taek Young, don't you think KT could do the same, I mean seriously?"
Bisu needs to be more diversity in his play. Or he's slowly turning in to a CJ -_-. Yes his perfect multitasking is pleasant to watch, but I'd rather watch Fantasy's sloppy bio in TvZ but STILL comes out ahead in the end (on a side note, has it occurred to anyone that Fantasy's sloppiness might have confused his opponents somehow? lol), than silly losses due to obvious snipes.
P/S: not to take away any credit from Stats and KT, they played really well during the grand finals and deserve the title. Congratulations, but next year we'll claim back what is rightfully ours!
|
On August 09 2010 10:01 aimaimaim wrote:
fanboys will be fanboys ..
Blame canata for not doing what he did .. many years in the scene, he should have done something better ..
blame bisu for his predictable BO ..
<3 hyuk for putting up a great last fight .. what he needs is decision making .. and moar scourge ..
scourge for wut? flashes vessels were chilling behind 9078139 turrets but meh. once he did snipe vessels when flash was pushing out, the vessels were the least of hyuk's worries
canata for the "worst proxy of the year" award maybe?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
