EPT
terrible
Match-Fixing Trial updates (24/06/2010) - Page 7
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FragKrag
United States11548 Posts
terrible | ||
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On June 26 2010 16:58 FragKrag wrote: man savior why did you even give us any hope terrible Did you believe that he would actually be innocent after being kicked off his team and forced to retire? I wish he was, but there really was no chance of that. | ||
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afiddy
Canada108 Posts
On June 26 2010 10:23 OneOther wrote: It makes no sense to me how some people are saying his legacy isn't tainted...I'm pretty speechless lol I think people just have very different definitions of their fandom. As a fan of savior myself, I really couldn't care less of what his reputation was or if everyone hated his guts for who he was. All I really cared about was that he was a really good zerg player who stepped on everyone he faced. I think I would still love the shit out of Michael Jordan even if he did something similar, just because of the sole fact that he changed the game with his skill. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
On June 26 2010 15:52 OneOther wrote: Lol damn you really have to make me break my promise. First, you don't even understand what my argument was to begin with and you jump in to tell me what I shouldn't do. Look, the only reason I posted in this thread to begin with was that some people claimed his legacy took no damage at all. I argued against that and said people will put different emphasis on his cheating/lying, but what he did will be remembered further down the road. Some people probably don't care, others care a lot. It doesn't matter, it's still a huge part of sAvior's career as a progamer. Getting banned from the league after lying to the public about his cheating won't all of sudden be forgotten from our community. Maybe some individuals like you will forget it, if you don't care at all about the god damn game and the scene, but not from his history as a StarCraft player. Just because you decide to use selective memory and forget what he did, that doesn't change anything about how the community as a whole views it. Legacy isn't formed by one fan. Stop trying to teach me please. Thanks. EDIT: For the last time, I am not taking away anything from what he did as a player. He was a revolutionary, great player who had a lot of influence on the game's development. When people argue that this whole fiasco doesn't affect his legacy at all, now, that's ridiculous. On the contrary, I understand very well what your argument was, and I disagree with it. I'm not the only one, as you so condescendingly seem to think. The legacy of Savior has nothing to do with who he was as a person. When people remember him, he may be that one progamer who eventually cheated, but he was the best goddamn player in his era. None of this trivial "oh but he hurt me personally because ESPORTS" bullshit is going to blight his accomplishments that he EARNED through his own skill. The two things are completely separate. Also, don't presume to put words in my mouth saying that I don't care about the game or the scene. It detracts from the content of your post, assuming it's there, and is overall just rude and unnessecary. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
When people remember him, he may be that one progamer who eventually cheated. If you actually understood very well what my argument was, you would also know that you just proved my point. Thanks buddy. His legacy took a hit and you just explained what that means! How much it's tainted is dependent on different people. Some don't care at all, but the aggregate opinion of him changed. Consensus is not needed to taint a player's legacy, as people have different opinions. Some people view him and his career in a different light - that's all it takes. You might find this post helpful: On June 26 2010 16:53 TheYango wrote: And "how the community as a whole views it" is the aggregate of those opinions. The fact that Savior's match fixing didn't damage *your* opinion of him doesn't change the fact that because there are others who had their opinions changed, overall, Savior's legacy as a player is damaged. The rest of your paragraph is just your opinion. Remember when you said I should stop using my opinions as facts? Yeah, you should stop that. What this means for him as a player and his career depends on individuals, and how much they make out of his fuck-ups. Lastly, don't say garbage like "trivial, oh but he hurt me personally because esports." A lot of people care about this game and the scene, and maybe a lot more than you do. Funny how you tell me to not be rude. | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
All in all, it's just a game, an e-sport, just like any other sport. He made a mistake, as many people do, and some feel the need to crucify him over it, you included. It doesn't mean I care any less about the future of Starcraft e-sports. I was disappointed that Savior did what he did. Period. However, this isn't the end of his life. You, stating your opinions as fact again in your last post, will disagree, obviously, as I've seen you do so many times before when someone's view does not coincide with yours. In fact, I likely care more than you do, I'm just not so obsessed that I'm reduced to a blithering child on an internet forum arguing that others aren't allowed to have their own opinion. Nobody has ever tried to force their thoughts of this situation on you, yet you feel the need to "correct" everyone with what you think should be right. I have my own opinion, different from yours, and not incorrect. Many, many others do, as well. Also, I admit that I was hypocritical in my last post stating my opinions as fact. I was merely emulating you to show you how feeble an argument it is, and you've agreed. I'll be interested in your response which I hope will be less close-minded, and hopefully of a more agreeable tone. | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
Ah, I am interested @ what is going to happen to SavioR so I came to take a look @ this topic. Although I do not know him or see him reign during his era. I am somehow...his fan? I am not sure I am his fan or no.. I just know that he used to dominate every1 and curious about his skill, so I always wanted him to rise and destroy everyone. To be on par with Flash , Jaedong Effort. Anyway I am not as hurt as the rest of the ppl here. Because I don't know him very well...I mean as much as those who watch the scene during Savior-Era. Now I am just curious about what is going to happen to him. I have a feeling it is defintely jail, but not sure how long. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On June 26 2010 18:34 pieisamazing wrote: I'm just not so obsessed that I'm reduced to a blithering child on an internet forum arguing that others aren't allowed to have their own opinion. Nobody has ever tried to force their thoughts of this situation on you, yet you feel the need to "correct" everyone with what you think should be right. I have my own opinion, different from yours, and not incorrect. Many, many others do, as well. On June 26 2010 17:57 OneOther wrote: If you actually understood very well what my argument was, you would also know that you just proved my point. Thanks buddy. His legacy took a hit and you just explained what that means! How much it's tainted is dependent on different people. Some don't care at all, but the aggregate opinion of him changed. Consensus is not needed to taint a player's legacy, as people have different opinions. Some people view him and his career in a different light - that's all it takes. For the love of god, I am not forcing my opinion on anyone. I am not trying to make everyone view him the same way I do. Go through my posts again and you will see that I have been arguing about how his legacy is damaged. And you even agreed with me, as seen by the sentence that I quoted from you. People can choose to put different weight on his cheating/lying. They will hold different opinions of him. Of course I am fine with that, like I have said about five times now. His legacy, though? From an aggregate opinion of the entire community? It got tarnished. A lot of people - based on comments I read on Fomos and in this thread -, though not everyone, have altered views of him and his career due to these recent events. Think about it like this. If none of this happened, he would be remember as an iconic player. Now that's up to debate, and dependent on individuals' opinions. For some, maybe he still is. For others, he's a selfish liar who deserves no respect whatsoever. You can't call people who view him negatively "overly pessimistic." Again, you are being a hypocrite and judging people who hold different opinions. If he didn't cheat and lie, would anyone question what he meant to the game of StarCraft and the progaming scene? What he meant to his fans? Different opinions on him exist, sure, but the aggregate opinion of him changed. It's hard for people to view and remember him as the same sAvior before any of this occurred. He's still a great player, but just not the same anymore on many levels. That's what it means for his legacy to be tainted. | ||
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
He made a mistake, and that will affect people to a varied degree, but I don't think (well, I hope, I guess) that people, while regretting his mistake, can still acknowledge him as a great player and choose to remember him for the good he did rather than the bad. His legacy can be untouched or completely destroyed based on who you ask. Maybe, in a way, we are both correct. Although, the old adage "You're only as good as your last mistake" seems to be the personal mantra of a lot of people these days... | ||
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Vivi57
United States6599 Posts
I'd have thought they'd use terrible decision making... which lux did use I feel bad for them now that I know they didn't want to do this in official games, but were blackmailed into it. | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
On June 24 2010 22:18 ssj114 wrote: Can savior still be considered a bonjwa? yes, you have to be pretty darned tootin gosu for errors to go unoticed, which in the fraud games, i hear that the weird actions were noticed by commentators. But yeah to stage a match you have to be gosu nothing more nothing less. On a side note, Nal_rA's always been my favourite gamer. But Anyone who participated in this scandal is also my favourite gamer, heres to making money on the side, the way life really is.  | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
He was considered a bonjwa, not only because of his domination, but the fact he fought and fought through imbalances and terran onslaughts to get there, and completely changed 2 matchups, but now he's a bonjwa just because of the period in which he won starleagues. People won't go 'savior won 3 MSL's, 1 OSL in a 1-2 year time-frame and dramatically changed the way zerg played' or for the 2nd part 'fought through hideous map imbalances to do so', they will go 'he won 3 MSL's, 1 OSL's and match fixed and cheated for some nice kicks or jewelery to end his career'. I do not think he is a terrible person though, EVERYONE can make mistakes, but savior had to represent e-sports. Normal people who live a good life don't have such a role-model effect, or obligation to do everything right and give a good image to what they do and don't face such serious repurcussions. sAviOr was one of the bonjwas, one of the legends of this giant e-sport in korea. He did 1 thing wrong, or a few things with 1 big picture, and no matter why or how, he did it. This 1 thing is much bigger than if a shop owner sells a 30 dollar item for free. He aided in a scandal that effectively ruined the results for matches that people have spent time and there lifestyle on, and the people that watched and supported it, and now a tainted feeling falls over starcraft in a way. The reasoning for getting involved though is what gives them the bad image. They did it and got money for themselves. It wasn't like they were blackmailed or told to for the sake of it, they could gain something from it, alot more than what they maybe could with hard work. The only reason i'm sad is because he's getting so much of the attention, and hate, when alot of the other big names (Up/Lux/Yarnc) just get a 'goodbye and good riddance' and are written off, but saviors legacy is getting worse and worse with the discussion. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
No one is debating his legacy. The fact that he lied under oath and did cheat in the end is a big hit to his gaming career. It isn't arguable. Just how much is dependent on the person. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On June 26 2010 21:39 StarStruck wrote: There is no debate. OneOther is simply stating facts. Jesus, when will the blind fan boys stop. No one is debating his legacy. The fact that he lied under oath and did cheat in the end is a big hit to his gaming career. It isn't arguable. Just how much is dependent on the person. wat | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
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