• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:47
CEST 06:47
KST 13:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On6Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Mile High15
Community News
5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)42$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 150Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada9Weekly Cups (Sept 22-28): MaxPax double, Zerg wins, PTR12BSL Season 217
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada SC2 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes + Sept 22nd update Had to smile :) Weekly Cups (Sept 22-28): MaxPax double, Zerg wins, PTR
Tourneys
Stellar Fest Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15 LANified! 37: Groundswell, BYOC LAN, Nov 28-30 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight
Brood War
General
Any rep analyzer that shows resources situation? Thoughts on rarely used units Flash On JaeDongs ASL Struggles & Perseverance Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3 3D!Community Brood War Super Cup №3 BSL Team Wars - Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta I am doing this better than progamers do. Simple Questions, Simple Answers Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Liquipedia App: Now Covering SC2 and Brood War!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
[AI] Sorry, Chill, My Bad :…
Peanutsc
Try to reverse getting fired …
Garnet
[ASL20] Players bad at pi…
pullarius1
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2056 users

How is Flash doing so well?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
JaedongMidasAction
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:20:25
May 14 2010 00:19 GMT
#1
After 12 long years, the game of Starcraft has developed into a game where everyone is very close in skill level, and it is difficult, maybe even impossible to call someone a clear favorite over all the others. Ever since Savior's reign in 2006-7, people have refused to match the word "bonjwa" with any other person because they did not have the same kind of dominance that he had. These days, a bad player can once in a while beat an "S classed" player quite easily, even crush them, although not often. Everyone has figured out builds, how to train, how to get faster... Kingdom said about Bisu's slump lately that back when Bisu's multitasking was unparalleled, he beat everyone, but now that kind of multitasking has become a standard he was struggling to keep up. Also, now that all the build orders are standardized and everyone practices basically the same builds, its harder to get an early advantage over the other player.

But then how the fuck is Flash going like 80% in all his games and defeating everyone he comes by? How does he have a 13 game streak (would have been 21 if he didnt lose to M18M) against protoss, his "weakest" race??? How does he make his games look so one sided, even after 12 years of the game being out and people claiming that noone could ever dominate starcraft ever again like nada, boxer, oov, or savior did. Flash is doing better than any of them ever did. He's broken all of their records and Jaedong's. His elo is almost 100 better than anyone, his Kespa score is 1000 better than Jaedong's and recently broke his record for the highest. I dont get it.

Flash started suddenly doing better starting this Proleague season. After his 2-1 loss to Bisu, he started to rip up everything in his path. Coincidently, he cut and dyed his hair right before he started his amazing game winning frenzy. At the same time, Bisu grew out and also dyed his hair, and he went into a huge, seemingly career ending slump. (Of course I'm not being serious that the hair style change caused their change in gameplay, but its just interesting.)

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is this: Flash went from having okay results to SUDDENLY DOMINATING EVERYTHING (and yes, I know that he's always been good, I'm talking about right before that when he was losing quite frequently). So how do you think he did it? What changed about his gameplay and himself that caused this to happen? and HOW is this level of dominance even possible in modern day Starcraft?
ShaSKiRa
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Australia344 Posts
May 14 2010 00:23 GMT
#2
It all about Skills, not strategy or BO since everyone can do a BO like that.

If Fantasy, Really, Leta or anyterran does a Bunker vs 12 nexus ... It always different to FlaSh's bunker rush.

Himself make it diff.

that what i reckon
I love FlaSh :) He gonna PWNED ALL OTHER RACE
AnyOne
Profile Joined January 2008
Chile547 Posts
May 14 2010 00:24 GMT
#3
there is no explanation
he is just a monster
STX SOuL FightinG~ Inter.Calm FigthinG ~
JaedongMidasAction
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States70 Posts
May 14 2010 00:26 GMT
#4
lol come on guys I'm looking for an actual theory or explanation or thought on how he's doing so good. No "FLASH IS BONJWA. HE'S JUST TOOO GOOD" posts plz
bearbuddy
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
3442 Posts
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#5
It's the Pocari Sweat.

There is no other explanation.
dtnmang
Profile Joined April 2010
Vietnam752 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:28:24
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#6
He sold his soul to Satan.
And Pocari Sweat.
KT Roflster - the lulziest team of Proleague.
Ikonn
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands1958 Posts
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#7
He complained about having a huge workload in the previous Proleague season, which caused him to lose many games and almost made him quit playing

Then he had the 'long' break after the season was over. I think he finally had the time to sort everything out and to get in the mindset he needed to reach the potential everyone knew he had for years.

But this is, of course, just speculation.
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:34:55
May 14 2010 00:27 GMT
#8
1. Better maps for Terran (no more swarm season)

In summer 09 Zergs managed to actually reverse the long-held T>Z win ratio and win more games against Terrans than vice versa. I don't think maps are the primary reason for this though, see reason 4.

2. No innovative Protoss

No Protosses have come up to replace the 6 dragons no matter what Roffles says. Protoss play in the 09-10 season has looked uninspired compared to Zerg and especially Terran play.

3. Smarter BOs, more developed game sense.

Flash started out as a player who had great mechanical skills and cheesed a lot to throw opponents off guard (unlike, say, Really, who has great mechanics but never cheeses). Now he has the game sense and decision making to not need cheese as much (although his cheeses are very well done) and he plays less greedy, using an aggressive TvZ style and not going 14 CC all the time.

4. Better M&M micro.

Flash has always had good TvP, but after summer 09 his TvZ became simply dominant and his best matchup. The reason? In swarm season Zergs were able to outmicro Terrans and win with just mutas, but Flash's improved micro along with his early second rax destroyed mutas with large armies of perfectly microed marines.
ella_guru
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada1741 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:30:20
May 14 2010 00:29 GMT
#9
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Each day gets better : )
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
May 14 2010 00:31 GMT
#10
Bad competition, with the exception of JD.
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
May 14 2010 00:33 GMT
#11
I'm willing to lay odds that having finished high school - Korean high school, no less - may have a little bit to do with it.

At least I think he's graduated. If not... then this is not a good theory, lol.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
May 14 2010 00:37 GMT
#12
On May 14 2010 09:26 JaedongMidasAction wrote:
lol come on guys I'm looking for an actual theory or explanation or thought on how he's doing so good. No "FLASH IS BONJWA. HE'S JUST TOOO GOOD" posts plz


i cannot think of any other explanation.
he is the best macro player in the world and he has a very good micro too
and he has no visible weaknesses
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Fumi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
529 Posts
May 14 2010 00:39 GMT
#13
On May 14 2010 09:29 ella_guru wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]





+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Pretty much this.
Flash, Stats, Reach, Tossgirl <> Boxer, Nestea, MC, Foxer fangirl | http://osu.ppy.sh/u/181432
geegee1
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States618 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:42:12
May 14 2010 00:41 GMT
#14
probably because of the fact that he has good game sense and scouts really well and adapt very well to the situation at hand. plus he just have godlike micro and marco. did you see him roll soulkey like he just started iccup? plus hes just a mile ahead of everyone else.
pew pew
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
May 14 2010 00:47 GMT
#15
It's largely due to his mental strength and focus, which is quite impressive for a 17 year-old.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
May 14 2010 00:48 GMT
#16
Only Protoss I think could've won a bo5 against Flash is Stork.

Stork is someone who knows how to punish greedy builds.
minus_human
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
4784 Posts
May 14 2010 00:49 GMT
#17
On May 14 2010 09:48 LaLuSh wrote:
Only Protoss I think could've won a bo5 against Flash is Stork.

Stork is someone who knows how to punish greedy builds.



Flash will beat Stork at mind games.
EntertainMe
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
864 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-14 00:52:00
May 14 2010 00:50 GMT
#18
He has combination of mental strenght and focus like minus_human said and also godlike sc abilities like geegee1 said.

Knowing that, once he wins dual title this season, his mental strengh and focus will subside. He will once again become average mortal like the rest of progamers. (The fall of every bonjwa, Flash will not be an exception)

But till then, he will remain a monster, but not for too long now.
geegee1
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States618 Posts
May 14 2010 00:51 GMT
#19
On May 14 2010 09:48 LaLuSh wrote:
Only Protoss I think could've won a bo5 against Flash is Stork.

Stork is someone who knows how to punish greedy builds.


thats quite funny considering how stork lost to flash on bacchus when he tried to counter flash greedy play
pew pew
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8128 Posts
May 14 2010 00:51 GMT
#20
jaedong's ZvZ slipped a bit so he wasnt nearly as dominate in winners league as he was last season

stork/jangbi/bisu all slumped really hard and they were always the protosses with the best chance at beating flash

all other terrans started sucking a bunch so it was easy for him to get a huge TvT win streak

maps have been pretty good for TvZ since September (HOW THE FUCK DID JAEDONG WIN THE NATE OSL WITH ODDEYE AND ULTIMATUM IN THE MAP POOL?)

2 hatch muta pretty much died but most zergs forgot how to play 3 hatch muta lol

he probably started practicing as much as JD (before he said he didnt actually practice that much and instead spent a lot of time doing though experiments and stuff) and now he literally is just "the best" in every respect of terran gameplay. best micro, macro, game sense, everything.

Honestly this might just be a bunch of zerg fanboy blabber but I think stylistically/racially it's a lot easier for flash to win a game without much practice than it is for Jaedong. Many factors contribute to it (such as ZvZ vs TvT, JD's micro intensive style compared to flash's macro intensive style, etc), but i think JD has always been at the same skill level as flash for the last year and a half (and obviously he was doing a lot better until last fall).
Free Palestine
1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 116
Nina 92
mcanning 70
SortOf 50
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 95
Bale 32
Shine 28
Icarus 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm97
League of Legends
JimRising 714
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv892
Stewie2K517
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King15
Other Games
summit1g9921
WinterStarcraft446
C9.Mang0306
hungrybox208
Maynarde166
XaKoH 158
ViBE154
ArmadaUGS19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick878
BasetradeTV55
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH164
• practicex 15
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo953
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
5h 13m
Map Test Tournament
6h 13m
Wardi Open
1d 6h
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
Dewalt vs kogeT
JDConan vs Tarson
RaNgeD vs DragOn
StRyKeR vs Bonyth
Aeternum vs Hejek
Replay Cast
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-25
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Acropolis #4 - TS2
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
Frag Blocktober 2025
Urban Riga Open #1
FERJEE Rush 2025
Birch Cup 2025
DraculaN #2
LanDaLan #3
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2025-26
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
WardiTV TLMC #15
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.