EPTFlash vs Pure in graphs - Page 2
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On May 10 2010 22:21 sob3k wrote: Protoss supply =/= Terran supply, its a little more complex than that Ye I think i know as much... | ||
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
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yupyup
Philippines36 Posts
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JDforever
China69 Posts
Where can I find the thread? | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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Polar_Nada
United States1548 Posts
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rushz0rz
Canada5300 Posts
On May 10 2010 19:17 heyoka wrote: This is the game that gave me an idea. After I saw flash move out and decimate Pure's army in about 5 seconds, I started laughing at how silly a graph would look that depicted their respective food levels. Then comes the best part, you can actually see when Flash moves out and their armies engage. At the 14 minute mark flash has 168 food and Pure has 159. Exactly a minute later, as Flash's push has extended towards the top and is taking out bases, Pure is down to 90 while Flash is at 145. Its over by now and the graph shows Pure making his last ditch effort and losing everything. I raged. | ||
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Saturnize
United States2473 Posts
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
its really interesting work, though. the dynamics would be so much different for other matchups, and it would be interesting to see TvZ or maybe ZvP as well. | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5523 Posts
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
On May 11 2010 05:34 Plexa wrote: Would be interesting to see where the -20 supply line is. As a general rule of thumb, Psi-20=Supply means the game is even. If Psi-20>Supply then P is winning and Psi-20< Supply then Terran is winning. This is basically why I was saying I think Flash was "out-macroing". In many situations, especially during the buildup parts of the game (sub~12 minutes when T has X bases and P has X+1 bases and its mostly just making stuff), protoss will naturally gain a slight advantage in raw count. Pure kind of does it, but it gets negated super fast just before the first major battles start happening. Flash keeping it that even seems like its an indicator of skill. There are a ton of other factors its looking at though, like what is being attacked, and which units are trading, so its not a very clean comparison. This was pretty easy to do while watching the games, so if I catch EffOrt-Kal I'll probably do the same thing. Zerg vs T/P seems like it would be more dynamic in what food levels look like but hell if I know. On May 11 2010 05:31 JDforever wrote: What is the supply counting box? A kind of sampling or data gathering process? Where can I find the thread? The counting box is that thing OSL has that shows current mineral/gas/supply count (like GOM or TSL had, in the lower right corner). I wrote down the numbers at regular time intervals to make the pictures. One thing I also noticed during the games is that Flash rarely had above 400 or 500 minerals at any point, while pure was frequently nearing 800 or 900. I kind of wonder if you wrote that down as well if something meaningful could be measured. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Flash greedy 3rd perhaps | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 11 2010 07:54 heyoka wrote: Still, is it possible you could do one of the graphs with the Pure Psi - 20 line added?This is basically why I was saying I think Flash was "out-macroing". In many situations, especially during the buildup parts of the game (sub~12 minutes when T has X bases and P has X+1 bases and its mostly just making stuff), protoss will naturally gain a slight advantage in raw count. Pure kind of does it, but it gets negated super fast just before the first major battles start happening. Flash keeping it that even seems like its an indicator of skill. There are a ton of other factors its looking at though, like what is being attacked, and which units are trading, so its not a very clean comparison. This was pretty easy to do while watching the games, so if I catch EffOrt-Kal I'll probably do the same thing. Zerg vs T/P seems like it would be more dynamic in what food levels look like but hell if I know. | ||
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
Plexa lemme see, should be easy enough EDIT YO HERE THEY ARE + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](/staff/heyoka/kaosl/g1redux.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/heyoka/kaosl/g2redux.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/heyoka/kaosl/g3redux.png) ![[image loading]](/staff/heyoka/kaosl/totalre.png) Game 2 is the most interesting one. The match average thing is cool too. | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
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maneatingshoe
Canada484 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 11 2010 08:09 heyoka wrote: He got pretty fast thirds in the games from what I remember, so possibly. He definitely had his third running before Pure did on Match Point. Its interesting that in the games Pure's growth is a straight line or tapers off towards mid game, whereas Flash's is the opposite in that it starts growing faster. I don't know if its a racial thing (Pure would have been adding tech for arbs about then) or because Flash is better at making units or because of engagements or if thats just how a PvT game normally unfolds. Maybe if we get a Flash vs Kal finals I could do the same thing and compare. Plexa lemme see, should be easy enough EDIT YO HERE THEY ARE + Show Spoiler + Game 2 is the most interesting one. The match average thing is cool too. Those graphs say to me, Flash was basically never behind once in the series Insaneeeee | ||
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Wings
United States999 Posts
On May 11 2010 08:09 heyoka wrote: He got pretty fast thirds in the games from what I remember, so possibly. He definitely had his third running before Pure did on Match Point. Its interesting that in the games Pure's growth is a straight line or tapers off towards mid game, whereas Flash's is the opposite in that it starts growing faster. I don't know if its a racial thing (Pure would have been adding tech for arbs about then) or because Flash is better at making units or because of engagements or if thats just how a PvT game normally unfolds. Maybe if we get a Flash vs Kal finals I could do the same thing and compare. Plexa lemme see, should be easy enough EDIT YO HERE THEY ARE + Show Spoiler + Game 2 is the most interesting one. The match average thing is cool too. I love those psi-20 graphs, though I'm not sure whether 20 is the magic number... Game 2 is pretty LOL to me. How the heck did Flash's unit count drop so fast, and then suddenly go up so freaking quickly while Pure's just went slowly downhill?? Makes no sense to me... maybe that was during the carrier transition? Flash decided to suddenly pump gols? | ||
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Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
On May 11 2010 09:41 Plexa wrote: Those graphs say to me, Flash was basically never behind once in the series Insaneeeee That is a reasonable way to interpret them. Thats mostly what I get out of it too. | ||
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