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On December 05 2009 01:40 Crucifix wrote:
But still Flash > fantasy hundred times.
how so based on fall 08 to summer 09?
what has flash done? Reach ro8 once or twice and get eliminated prematurely, fail at the end of the PL season to clutch his team into the playoffs, besides getting most wins in PL he has no other accomplishments. Remember GOM is not sanctioned and its games dont count so its irrelevant to the discussion here.
Fantasy has
Clutched a 3-0 in the grand finals to secure his team's victory, without him you can easily make the case that Oz wouldve taken that finals
Reached the finals of both OSLs while crushing Bisu 3-0 and barely losing to JD and Stork 2-3 in epic finals. He also reached the OSL semis last season
The only argument you can make is that Fantasy played worse than Flash in normal PL but considering he clutched when it mattered unlike Flash and took the MVP title on the final day he surpassed Flash in PL too + he also went 2-1 in WL playoffs( one of those wins was vs flash)
+ lets not forget he completely revolutionized a mu for 2 seasons, something Bisu can claim to do too + he had a stronger TvP than flash within the year
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On December 05 2009 01:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2009 01:41 XsebT wrote:
Best P: Stork (bisu, I'm very happy for you and imma let you finish, but this is easiest answer of all time) Did people just forget how comparatively mediocre Stork was doing in the first half of the year? If this were the last 3 months, Stork would probably be the correct answer to this. As it stands, Bisu has performed far better in 2009 as a whole than Stork.
Dude... Stork got ripped.
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On December 05 2009 01:10 samachking wrote:
Why is this even a contest? Its completely objective
Best Player:Jaedong-Flash won nothing this year, Bisu won 1 SL this year(they count fall season as part of the 09 year, so this current season does not count)
Best Z- JD
Best P-Bisu
Best T- Fantasy- best performance in SLs this year + clutch in PL grandfinals
Best Coach- SKT coach by miles
Best Map- Subjective choice between Andro and Desti
Best Rookie- how the fuck is effort a rookie? Did they just put him in the award in order for him to win something
what? maybe i'm misinterpreting what you're saying but i could of sworn jaedong won an osl...and a golden mouse..
effort is a rookie? well if he is hes definitely up for it.
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On December 05 2009 01:51 Icysoul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2009 01:10 samachking wrote:
Why is this even a contest? Its completely objective
Best Player:Jaedong-Flash won nothing this year, Bisu won 1 SL this year(they count fall season as part of the 09 year, so this current season does not count)
Best Z- JD
Best P-Bisu
Best T- Fantasy- best performance in SLs this year + clutch in PL grandfinals
Best Coach- SKT coach by miles
Best Map- Subjective choice between Andro and Desti
Best Rookie- how the fuck is effort a rookie? Did they just put him in the award in order for him to win something what? maybe i'm misinterpreting what you're saying but i could of sworn jaedong won an osl...and a golden mouse.. effort is a rookie? well if he is hes definitely up for it.
thats why I said JD for best player of the year? I had no reason to list his accomplishments because everyone knows them, just simply debutting his competitors, everyone knows JD is the greatest player right now, and everyone knows he took 2 OSLs and a Golden mouse this year
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On December 05 2009 01:53 samachking wrote:
thats why I said JD for best player of the year? I had no reason to list his accomplishments because everyone knows them, just simply debutting his competitors, everyone knows JD is the greatest player right now, and everyone knows he took 2 OSLs and a Golden mouse this year
its more of poor wording that, like i said misinterpreted what you said. You make it sound more like flash and jaedong didn't win squat all year.
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On second thought, there is no way to objectively give Flash the best terran award of Fantasy.
Two OSL silvers and a Proleague title compared to no achievements at all except most proleague wins in 08-09 season.
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lol I wonder if someone thinks that Destination is not the best map out of those 4. Prett much a given
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Best Map: Heartbreak Ridge
Best Rookie: EffOrt
Best Coach: Cho Jeong Woong (OZ)
Best Protoss Player: Kal
Best Terran Player: Leta
Best Zerg Player: Zero
Best Player of all games: Jaedong
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On December 05 2009 03:12 Ruff wrote:
Best Protoss Player: Kal
lol. I hope that was meant as a joke :p
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On December 05 2009 03:18 Zato-1 wrote:lol. I hope that was meant as a joke :p
Best player Korean e-Sports Awards 2009 is not real best player. If you want to know best player just look at KeSPA rating.
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On December 05 2009 03:18 Zato-1 wrote:lol. I hope that was meant as a joke :p
nah
judging by his list he mistook best for entertaining
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On December 05 2009 00:58 Jyvblamo wrote:
Calling it now.
Best Map: Destination
Best Rookie: Effort (Really, he's considered a rookie?)
Best Coach: Park Yong Woon
Best P: Bisu
Best T: Flash
Best Z: Jaedong
Best Player: Jaedong
This exactly
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On December 05 2009 01:10 samachking wrote:
Why is this even a contest? Its completely objective
Best Player:Jaedong-Flash won nothing this year, Bisu won 1 SL this year(they count fall season as part of the 09 year, so this current season does not count)
Best Z- JD
Best P-Bisu
Best T- Fantasy- best performance in SLs this year + clutch in PL grandfinals
Best Coach- SKT coach by miles
Best Map- Subjective choice between Andro and Desti
Best Rookie- how the fuck is effort a rookie? Did they just put him in the award in order for him to win something
Totally agree with this.
You guys must remember that the awards are not about who is the most skilled, but who accomplished more during the year.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
Although samachking is incredibly harsh, he is correct... Except for the Clutch part. How can you say Flash is not clutch (better yet, how can he be)? He was THE one man show, unarguable. Don't say jaedong was a one man show, jaedong atleast had 1 reliable player besides him (not anymore though). Is it flash's fault that his team loses 1:3? If it is, does that mean Fantasy is a better player because his team can actually win stuff?
Remember GOM is not sanctioned and its games dont count so its irrelevant to the discussion here.
So this league doesn't "Magically" exist in the eyes of a fan? Even if you are correct nobody is going to discredit the fact that it happened. Yeah the judges might turn the other cheek for this league, but the fan votes will not, and fan votes does matter.
I don't know if Ruff intended that to be a joke or not, but he is 100% correct. E-Sports award is not a award show to mark the best player. Its just a fun event to please the fanbases and for all the players to feel satisfied of what they've achieved during the past year.
PS: I'm not saying Fantasy doesn't deserve Best Terran award, hell I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Fantasy did outpreform Flash in the beginning of 09 and the end of PL.
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Why didn't Outsider get nominated?? It brought us the best games we've ever seen because of the new concept.
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United States12607 Posts
T1's coach so deserves best coach. When he took over the team after the 2007 season, T1 had fallen far from their Boxer-oov-era dominance. The team had been under the same head coach since its formation (those were some big shoes to fill). Park Yong Woon has managed to turn the organization around—helping its best players continue to improve while bringing up a lot of great new talent.
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Best Map: I liked andromeda the most
Best Rookie: Effort easily
Best Coach: the coach on CJ did a fantastic job IMO this year and I think he should win.
Best P: Bisu sadly. I usually autovote for stork, but bisu did play better this year
Best T: Flash or Fantasy. Very very very close between them
Best Z: Jaedong, bar none.
Best Player: Jaedong
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Judging a player by his team's performance is ridiculous. KTF's failure to make the playoffs was the fault of everybody except Flash. It boils down to this:
Flash did a lot more in the proleague than Fantasy.
Fantasy did a lot more in the OSL than Flash.
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On December 05 2009 05:42 Djabanete wrote:
Judging a player by his team's performance is ridiculous. KTF's failure to make the playoffs was the fault of everybody except Flash. It boils down to this:
Flash did a lot more in the proleague than Fantasy.
Fantasy did a lot more in the OSL than Flash.
Fantasy's 34 wins are worth something in PL + his 3-0 in grand finals means a lot
KTF's last hope in PL was destroyed by Flash that day, I saw it live, the burn out and crash of Flash that day vs STX, he had 2 chances to redeem his team and take them to the playoffs, and unfortunately he lost to Kal and Calm back to back.
I hate Fantasy and always rooted against him(unless he is facing Bisu) and was one of the people who always said Flash was a better player in theory. But how potentially good Flash is irrelevant, Fantasy was simply the better player this year and its hard to argue against it no matter how much you hate him or love Flash, he simply performed better where it mattered, something Flash hasnt done this year although he should've.
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EPT
