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Recently I met someone on internet who called Boxer, Yellow, Nada, and Reach a washed up player. I was not going to take it as one of old fans of starcraft,
and then he brings up sources of team liquid saying "...and noting that most teams opt to send out their B-Team's to dispatch of ACE, these figures are not reassuring."
I mean it is cool that you guys are like D.C starcraft gallery of America but please do not make comments like that disrespecting old gamers. Most of people who go to team liquid are not able to speak properly without saying BISU BISU JAEDONG JAEDONG.
I know they are great player and all that but that doesn't mean you can disrespect old gamers who in their prime were far greater than those two and contributed much more to league of starcraft.
Still there are more fans who would rejoice more for NC Yellow's win than Jaedong's golden mouse.
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I predict a long and prosperous time for you here. Just in case I am wrong bookmark www.gosugamers.net
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People who disrespect the old greats are simply retarded and have no understanding of SC progaming scene at all. Disrespecting Boxer alone shows such a complete lack of knowledge it's absurd, let alone all those other legends.
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i thought you had to wait 10 days to make new threads. o.o
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Disrespecting Boxer means disrespecting Starcraft.
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konadora
Singapore66160 Posts
and then he brings up sources of team liquid saying "...and noting that most teams opt to send out their B-Team's to dispatch of ACE, these figures are not reassuring."
This has nothing to do with disrespect imo.
You're facing a weaker team (everyone knows that ACE is bad - once again, not the issue of respect or disrespect) and you want to send out your B-team members to get them more used to playing live. Nothing wrong with that. Only they're risking losing the match.
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Katowice25012 Posts
bisu bisu jaedong jaedong flash
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Sweden33719 Posts
So... what would you consider Yellow, Reach or Boxer? They are past their prime. There is NO shame in that, and their era of greatness is probably my favorite SC time-period (since it's when I started following the scene), but it doesn't change facts.
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How do you think, if there is no respect for old gamers on TL.net, why TLFE consists mostly of articles about "old gamers"?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlfe/
Why one of most hyped tournament topic's here was... Yes, Heritage! Why whenever we see Boxer playing 50% of posts are "omg Boxer Boxer <3 Emperor i love you" etc? Sorry, you took wrong site to blame for lack of respect for old stars.
P.S. 95% of Terrans reading TL have this topic bookmarked
P.P.S. Truth is, we all love them but we don't deny that they are playing poorly nowadays. We accept them even though every game they lose we feel a little empty inside.
Just because we don't lie to ourselves doesn't mean that we don't like old stars and don't miss these days
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I think you should stop getting worked up about something someone said on the internet.
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Don't bi such a fanatic about the old legends that you can't recognize their decline.
P.S: Jaedong Jaedong.
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On October 11 2009 00:11 Patriot.dlk wrote:I predict a long and prosperous time for you here. Just in case I am wrong bookmark www.gosugamers.net
I laughed.
THIS JUST IN: TL.net wants to set up death panels for gamers passed their prime!
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On October 11 2009 00:31 konadora wrote:Show nested quote +and then he brings up sources of team liquid saying "...and noting that most teams opt to send out their B-Team's to dispatch of ACE, these figures are not reassuring." This has nothing to do with disrespect imo. You're facing a weaker team (everyone knows that ACE is bad - once again, not the issue of respect or disrespect) and you want to send out your B-team members to get them more used to playing live. Nothing wrong with that. Only they're risking losing the match.
I agree. Unless the guy blatantly said such thing about progamers like Boxer or Yellow (ie: useless piece of shit), I don't think he was disrespecting them. I guess he was just implying that they're not mechanically skilled as much as the young progamers nowadays. Nobody is denying the fact that Boxer, Yellow, Reach, etc were/are great, legendary progamers and what they achieved, it's just that other teams feel as if they're B level progamers are equal if not better than the old players in terms of skill. It just goes to show how competitive SC has gotten. It doesn't mean Boxer has gotten worse. I'm sure if 2009 Boxer went back to the past, he would beat the living shit out of 2002 Boxer.
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They are washed up players now though. Nada probably the least, but still. Yellow has been improving lately and Reach still shows some good games every once in a while like that game against Flash on Tau Cross, but they're still really not relevant players when it comes to top competition.
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I like this thread: "Some people said [the truth] that old players are not as good as the new players ergo teamliquid insults old gamers, oh, and btw, most teamliquid users are morons." Their contributions are timeless, but if they practice less being in ACE than B-teamers (no source, just saying) then they aren't gonna improve. Also, the more popular starcraft is the more people will be drawn to it, and it's inevitable that a Bisu or JD will come out and be better than old timers.
If the game lasts another 2 years in Korea, Bisu and JD will be washed up, doesn't mean they were awesome to watch in their prime and doesn't mean disrespect. (Unless it's excessive)
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It's the truth? There's no argument that they're way past their prime and unable to compete. Whether or not you respect their accomplishments in the past is another matter, and it's also true that they wouldn't be able to compete with today's high level of play even at their prime (some of them at least).
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
calling them "old gamers" is about as disrespectful as discussing the B-teamers being needed to take out Yellow.
Both are just kinda discussion.. if someone said "boxer is fucking trash." That'd be a bit over-the-top and disrespectful but still within the bounds of truth... with pro standards he isn't great these days.
anyways this had already been said.
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ok thanks for your opinions.
P.S But I still think one day one of them will comeback.
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I only see July having any reasonable chance of making a comeback. And only if he avoids good zergs, which seems unlikely right now.
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Not that they are just they are past their prime, but they are like zombies in the proleague. Wallowing themself into self-pity, fading away quietly. Its better to burn out then to fade away. If you can't take the heat of progamer, go do something else... enjoy life... there are plenty of options.
P.S. In the face of total annihilation they still cling to their failing traditions! En Taro Tassadar!
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The problem with respect towards the old progamers is not that there is a lack of it. It is the fact that it is not properly distributed. Some progamers do not get enough respect while others get more of it then they deserve.
In any case, regardless of how much we love certain players, we need to be realistic about their current performance. No matter how much one loves and respects the likes of Boxer, Yellow, Reach or any other older progamer, we can hardly say that they are currently playing well if they keep losing to relative no-names.
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Katowice25012 Posts
On October 11 2009 04:05 Einherjar wrote:
Not that they are just they are past their prime, but they are like zombies in the proleague. Wallowing themself into self-pity, fading away quietly. Its better to burn out then to fade away. If you can't take the heat of progamer, go do something else... enjoy life... there are plenty of options.
P.S. In the face of total annihilation they still cling to their failing traditions! En Taro Tassadar!
Have you ever been in a position to burn out or fade away? How are we to trust you judgment on that call? Why would you rather burn out? Do you think its possible to stay on top until you off yourself hara-kiri style?
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On October 11 2009 00:09 seabard77 wrote:
Still there are more fans who would rejoice more for NC Yellow's win than Jaedong's golden mouse.
Golden mouse > Win ..?
I say blog 
And there are plenty of people who can speak without saying "JAEDONG" or "BISU". Neither does that mean that old gamers are being disrespected.
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On October 11 2009 05:28 heyoka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 04:05 Einherjar wrote:
Not that they are just they are past their prime, but they are like zombies in the proleague. Wallowing themself into self-pity, fading away quietly. Its better to burn out then to fade away. If you can't take the heat of progamer, go do something else... enjoy life... there are plenty of options.
P.S. In the face of total annihilation they still cling to their failing traditions! En Taro Tassadar! Have you ever been in a position to burn out or fade away? How are we to trust you judgment on that call? Why would you rather burn out? Do you think its possible to stay on top until you off yourself hara-kiri style?
That's life philosophy. And yes i have been prolonged many things in my life that would have been sweeter and thus better if they were kept short. And i don't know which Broodwar league you are following, but i'd rather stick something sharp in my eye than watch last year-two games from SaviOr lets say.
And yes be on top - and when you can't/won't/couldn't be arsed to, just do something that will fulfill you and challenge you.
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You do realize how stupid it is, having those two links as your punchline? People are rooting for Boxer? So what? Millions of people believe in Jesus/Allah. Should i do it? Nope. The mass is always by preposition stupid and inert to change. Go read up on your Nietzsche, and then try addressing me.
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this is a hilariously obvious troll thread
Einherjar you're absolutely hilarious lololol
for that matter you might as well be talking about pascal's skeptics idea
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Katowice25012 Posts
On October 11 2009 05:39 Einherjar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 05:28 heyoka wrote:On October 11 2009 04:05 Einherjar wrote:
Not that they are just they are past their prime, but they are like zombies in the proleague. Wallowing themself into self-pity, fading away quietly. Its better to burn out then to fade away. If you can't take the heat of progamer, go do something else... enjoy life... there are plenty of options.
P.S. In the face of total annihilation they still cling to their failing traditions! En Taro Tassadar! Have you ever been in a position to burn out or fade away? How are we to trust you judgment on that call? Why would you rather burn out? Do you think its possible to stay on top until you off yourself hara-kiri style? That's life philosophy. And yes i have been prolonged many things in my life that would have been sweeter and thus better if they were kept short. And i don't know which Broodwar league you are following, but i'd rather stick something sharp in my eye than watch last year-two games from SaviOr lets say. And yes be on top - and when you can't/won't/couldn't be arsed to, just do something that will fulfill you and challenge you.
So you're saying that yes, you once were the uncontested best of a competition, therefore understanding all the issues at stake here?
What is that last sentence all about? Boxer is fulfilled and challenged by starcraft. That makes it ok for him to keep playing right?
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8748 Posts
Evaluating someone's skill level has nothing to do with respect. I could say Boxer is the greatest player ever, and he's still the greatest player ever, and that could be very disrespectful. No typo there. What if I think the greatest player ever had to put in a ton of effort to achieve that and I think it's a foolish waste of time to play video games. Then I mean disrespect when I say he's the best, but only because I attach a value judgment to that evaluation.
Having to clarify your value judgment every time you evaluate skill level is ridiculous. It's enough to assume that there is a general feeling of respect toward the people who make our hobby possible. That way we can focus on real discussion, such as the fact that the old legends are barely A-team level anymore, despite having once been better than everyone and never ceasing to practice. Haha.
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On October 11 2009 06:40 heyoka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2009 05:39 Einherjar wrote:On October 11 2009 05:28 heyoka wrote:On October 11 2009 04:05 Einherjar wrote:
Not that they are just they are past their prime, but they are like zombies in the proleague. Wallowing themself into self-pity, fading away quietly. Its better to burn out then to fade away. If you can't take the heat of progamer, go do something else... enjoy life... there are plenty of options.
P.S. In the face of total annihilation they still cling to their failing traditions! En Taro Tassadar! Have you ever been in a position to burn out or fade away? How are we to trust you judgment on that call? Why would you rather burn out? Do you think its possible to stay on top until you off yourself hara-kiri style? That's life philosophy. And yes i have been prolonged many things in my life that would have been sweeter and thus better if they were kept short. And i don't know which Broodwar league you are following, but i'd rather stick something sharp in my eye than watch last year-two games from SaviOr lets say. And yes be on top - and when you can't/won't/couldn't be arsed to, just do something that will fulfill you and challenge you. So you're saying that yes, you once were the uncontested best of a competition, therefore understanding all the issues at stake here? What is that last sentence all about? Boxer is fulfilled and challenged by starcraft. That makes it ok for him to keep playing right?
You are o! so missing out the point.
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On October 11 2009 06:05 Einherjar wrote:
You do realize how stupid it is, having those two links as your punchline? People are rooting for Boxer? So what? Millions of people believe in Jesus/Allah. Should i do it? Nope. The mass is always by preposition stupid and inert to change. Go read up on your Nietzsche, and then try addressing me.
See footnote? "Try addressing me" after you actually read my post, because clearly you have no idea that I didn't even read your earlier posts in the thread and that mine wasn't directed at you.
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On October 11 2009 00:09 seabard77 wrote:
Recently I met someone on internet who called Boxer, Yellow, Nada, and Reach a washed up player. I was not going to take it as one of old fans of starcraft,
and then he brings up sources of team liquid saying "...and noting that most teams opt to send out their B-Team's to dispatch of ACE, these figures are not reassuring."
I mean it is cool that you guys are like D.C starcraft gallery of America but please do not make comments like that disrespecting old gamers. Most of people who go to team liquid are not able to speak properly without saying BISU BISU JAEDONG JAEDONG.
I know they are great player and all that but that doesn't mean you can disrespect old gamers who in their prime were far greater than those two and contributed much more to league of starcraft.
Still there are more fans who would rejoice more for NC Yellow's win than Jaedong's golden mouse.
Wow you're not geeky enough about progaming scene that people who diss old gamers are something new and surprising to you.
There are people who hold not the most entirely favorable views on old gamers, mostly saying they should kinda chill and leave the scene in good memory for the younger players...
And I would say Boxer has the most haters btw...mostly about his "bad" mannerism resulting from his huge passion to win (the chatting incident, using Allied Mine strategy when it was banned, crying and ruining iloveoov's moments at EVER OSL 2004, etc)...who think that Starcraft scene sacrificed other good players to aid in making Boxer a superstar.
Don't get me wrong. I LOVE old gamers and am just saying some relevant stuff.
TL.net is like D.C. SC gallery of America? Big no no no there. D.C. SC gallery is an unorganized mess not moderated as efficiently and well as TL.net and with soooooooooo fewer functionalities than TL.net (all DC SC Gallery is this one place where ppl continue to post stuffs, a lot of them are crappy, minute by minute, sec by sec, no categorizaton of forums, no calendar, few if any well-thought-out posts...)
"Most of people who go to team liquid are not able to speak properly without saying BISU BISU JAEDONG JAEDONG" --> I'm just gonna say spend a couple weeks digging through TL...I think the last time I made OP about Bisu or Jaedong was like two months ago...
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Heritage tourny was the bomb, no mistake about that, I personally liked it better than anything else I've watched (maybe except the all-star, which was a ton of hilarious fun) but then even in all-star, guess who's putting a smile on people's faces - BoxeR and YellOw!
I haven't seen threads/posts that disrespect the older generation of gamers (I'm relatively new here), but I've been watching pro SC scene for the last few years and I don't think there's too many people that blatantly disrespect then outright. Nothing wrong with saying they're past their prime - it's just the fact. At least, those that have "the right" to make more bold comments about older progamers, should have been watching SC a long time and they should know that BoxeR basically made "progamer" and "e-sports" possible.
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All the players you mentioned are washed-up, if that means far beyond their prime and not playing at all well compared to the new generation. Throw Savior in their for good measure, he's finished too.
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EPT
