UPDATE: We made it! Both Yayba and Draco will be paid from the funds gathered, thus sent to China this year! Official statement and summary (as well as the t-shirt design) will be posted in few days - now the registration / payment procedures are most important. Thanks a million to all who donated!
--- original post ---
Hello fellowes,
I'm rare poster and daily reader of these forums, for these who don't know / remember me, my name is Maciej "ESC.Raven" Polak. I'm here to represent Polish community and forward our kind request to our dear friends from TeamLiquid.net.
Not longer than 2 days ago (Saturday), Polish community discussed the possibility of starting an operation to raise funds for sending additional players to the WCG 2009 StarCraft: Brood War finals. Yesterday (Sunday), after an enormous and very positive feedback from community (if we just counted minimal declaration amounts in poll hosted, we would have 12 000 PLN = ~4 150 USD!) we had no nire doubts – it was time to start raising funds!
Just so you know, Poland local WCG sponsors are able to send only one Starcraft player from our country to Grand Final in Chengdu, China. But the WCG rules are giving us a chance to send even all 3 players if we only get the funds.
WCG 2009 Polish final standings: 1. (Z) ParanOid (aka Gosia) - won a ticket to Grand Final 2. (P) Yayba - requires a sponsor to join Grand Final 3. (P) Draco - requires a sponsor to join Grand Final
Our plan is to send all 3 of them. We do believe that might be our very last chance to see Starcraft: Broodwar on WCG, thus it is the last chance to do something together and show how strong the community is and how much do we care about looking for more Starcraft players at WCG Grand Final. Eventually, this gest of solidarity might bring more attention to Starcraft 2 next year and sponsors will decide to support the sequel of our favourite game even more.
The cost of sending one player is around 8 500 PLN = ~2940 USD, it's the sum we have to pay directly to ICM (Korean based company handling the WCG Grand Finals every year). So to send both of them, we need around 17 000 PLN = ~5 880 USD. Sounds impossible?
We started raising the funds yesterday (Sunday) and by end of Monday we gathered over 6 600 PLN = ~2 305 USD already which is 78,4% of the amount needed to send one player, or 39,2% of the amount needed to send two players.
There is still a lot of bank transfers not booked on our account, but also there is still a lot of money to gather. DEADLINE for raising the funds is Tuesday, October 6th, EOB, as we have to handle all the procedures by end of the same week (October 9-10).
JOIN OUR MONEY GATHERING ACTION! In Poland, we use direct bank money transfers to not spend our contributions on the various taxes. But for foreign contributors, it's too slow & too expensive.
or type my PayPal account manually: raven@terran.pl (I'm coordinating the project)
In the donation’s title/description write as follows: "Donation for WCG" Nick or a name and surname or company’s name, team name which is supposed to be visible on the donator’s list & t-shirt *
Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee the back payments this way, but if the project fails somehow (but how can it be, we almost gathered money for sending one player in one day already!) or if there will be some spare money after we send the both players to China, we do promise every single cent will be spent on providing some goods to Starcraft community (additional coverage from WCG finals, some event, tourney maybe? etc.). UPDATE: Just to make it absolutely clear. In Poland, as we accept the regular bank transfers (and back payments cost nothing), people can decide if they prefer to spend it on Yayba or Draco only (and have the money sent back if it fails), if they don't care which player goes for this money or even they don't care at all and would prefer to have this money used for further improvement terran.pl site (soon to start in English) or some new tournaments / ladders / showmatches. Of course, this is the case only if we really gather too much money. Please do remember you can track the donation status in a link below.
* A player, who is sent that way to the WCG finals, would be dressed by Terran.PL in a specially designed for the trip to Chengdu T-shirt with the names of sponsors on it. Offered idea assumes, that the sponsor’s list will be some sort of a “tag cloud”, where nicks / names of most generous donators will be written with the biggest type. So the more you pay the bigger and more visible your nick gets! ^^
Beside this action, there are still attempts to get additional sponsors for this idea, but we have to assume the worst scenario and try to get the whole amount.
If you have any doubts or questions, please write in comments or directly to me on my e-mail (raven@terran.pl). And now people… let’s do it! Each cent counts.
Also if you ask why I do care about this project so much, I have my personal reason too. 3 years ago, I participated WCG finals (in Monza, Italy) only thanks to this community, which helped me to contact ICM and get my ticket for sponsors money. This is how one of my biggest dreams came true then. Coordinating this project, I feel I can pay back this credit of trust somehow.
Yes, some random guy posted it without consulting it first, yesterday. We had to discuss the idea of asking for support from foreign communities and to find the best payment form first.
Draco is looking for the sponsors, but it is all so fresh there is simply no confirmation if some company will support him in paying the trip. BVG unoficially confirmed they will be able to partially support him, but 3000 USD is... simply too much for them to pay just for one player.
Some people have no idea that earning 1PLN in Poland is actually harder than gaining 1$ in US. That effort is equivalent to collecting $6600 in just two days:s Imagine that...
Just to illustrate how these people are determined to achieve their goal, and what starcraft really means to them.
On September 29 2009 08:25 piratebay wrote: wait... so if you gather money, you can send additional players for your country? fuck draco and yayba, lets get boxer and yellow to go!!!!
...
Yayba and Draco finished WCG Poland with second and third place respectively. So that AND money.
On September 29 2009 08:25 piratebay wrote: wait... so if you gather money, you can send additional players for your country? fuck draco and yayba, lets get boxer and yellow to go!!!!
-.- Every participating country can send up to 3 players, but number of PAID slots varies per country. So for example - in Korea all 3 players are being sent and don't have to pay anything by themselves, but in Poland top3 players can go, but 1. place finisher has his trip sponsored, but no. 2. and 3. have to pay for themselves
Most players donated about $10 each so far, some gave less, some gave more, but it's the average amount - and yet we've managed to raise two thousand dollars in less than a day. It's not really about *how much* you can give away, it's the act alone that counts. The more the better, of course, but if you can't afford to send much then don't worry, every penny counts and it's your support that matters the most.
IMO BVG and iG should each put up like 1k ... that way the community won't have to pay like $6,000 out of its pocket/
Also I'd want to donate ONLY IF Draco actually releases a statement saying he's going to take this event 100% seriously and practice for it.
I'd be really ashamed of him on behalf of the entire community with his attitude of "ya I'm not practicing at all anymore and I don't care about BW but I still play in events" .
If he actually is going to take WCG seriously and try to win, I'll support him.
On September 29 2009 10:38 Xeris wrote: IMO BVG and iG should each put up like 1k ... that way the community won't have to pay like $6,000 out of its pocket/
Also I'd want to donate ONLY IF Draco actually releases a statement saying he's going to take this event 100% seriously and practice for it.
I'd be really ashamed of him on behalf of the entire community with his attitude of "ya I'm not practicing at all anymore and I don't care about BW but I still play in events" .
If he actually is going to take WCG seriously and try to win, I'll support him.
On September 29 2009 10:38 Xeris wrote: IMO BVG and iG should each put up like 1k ... that way the community won't have to pay like $6,000 out of its pocket/
Also I'd want to donate ONLY IF Draco actually releases a statement saying he's going to take this event 100% seriously and practice for it.
I'd be really ashamed of him on behalf of the entire community with his attitude of "ya I'm not practicing at all anymore and I don't care about BW but I still play in events" .
If he actually is going to take WCG seriously and try to win, I'll support him.
I was about to post the same thing because it would be a kick in the balls if people donated money and found out that Draco only saw WCG as a vacation of some sort.
On September 29 2009 10:38 Xeris wrote: IMO BVG and iG should each put up like 1k ... that way the community won't have to pay like $6,000 out of its pocket/
Also I'd want to donate ONLY IF Draco actually releases a statement saying he's going to take this event 100% seriously and practice for it.
I'd be really ashamed of him on behalf of the entire community with his attitude of "ya I'm not practicing at all anymore and I don't care about BW but I still play in events" .
If he actually is going to take WCG seriously and try to win, I'll support him.
QFT.
Also, how are we denoting preference? I'd much rather see Yayba there right now because I know he'd practice and take it seriously (plus I consider him a friend too) but I don't want to donate money just to see Draco go ahead of Yayba. If I know Yayba gets preference, I'll surely donate what I can.
Yes I will donate money on the basis that draco practices. Also how are we deciding which player gets sent if we only raise enough to send one player? I assume yayba then draco but no offence to yayba but most people probably want to see draco go to the finals.
On September 29 2009 12:20 jimminy_kriket wrote: Yes I will donate money on the basis that draco practices. Also how are we deciding which player gets sent if we only raise enough to send one player? I assume yayba then draco but no offence to yayba but most people probably want to see draco go to the finals.
Honestly, if Draco goes before Yayba, that's a shame. Yayba earned the right to go first by beating Draco, and especially where it's not a team paying either player's way, it would suck for anyone to be like "Well the community likes the third place finisher more."
Not sure if you've done anything like this, but perhaps you should do some kind of auction? Maybe auction off like 5 hours of Yayba's or Draco's time after WCG for 1 on 1 SC coaching or whatever.
Good on them for having the skill & drive to compete, and I'm sure they're putting up money themselves, but it'd be a nice thing to do to raise money a bit quicker if it works out, don't you think?
Raven said somewhere on netwars.pl that if we get money to send just one player, we will send Yayba - he took 2nd place on WCG, and Draco declared to try to get founds from other sources (BVG or somthing) first. So it's more probable to send Yayba, but we all aim for sending both players and Raven as a cheerleader!
As it comes to Draco, he is training hard now. He got mad after loosing the WCG finals in Poland, and on his blog he declared that the only thing he can offer for those sponsors who will donate him is hard work. And i think he is doing that. The obligation to play at least 10 games a day is coming true. ( Here is the proof http://www.iccup.com/gamingprofile/ASL-Draco.O.html ) He's never been so active since i remember.
Just to make it absolutely clear, I posted additional line regarding eventual fail of the project (but once again, how can it be, I'm pretty sure we will have a money for one of the players today already).
" UPDATE: Just to make it absolutely clear. In Poland, as we accept the regular bank transfers (and back payments cost nothing), people can decide if they prefer to spend it on Yayba or Draco only (and have the money sent back if it fails), if they don't care which player goes for this money or even they don't care at all and would prefer to have this money used for further improvement terran.pl site (soon to start in English) or some new tournaments / ladders / showmatches. Of course, this is the case only if we really gather too much money. Please do remember you can track the donation status in a link below. "
On September 27 2009 20:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: closed at the request of the polish community
and then you are creating the same once again?
On September 29 2009 07:58 Kennigit wrote: Didn't this get closed a few days ago at the request of the polish community or something?
On September 29 2009 08:01 kimchiterran wrote: Yes, some random guy posted it without consulting it first, yesterday. We had to discuss the idea of asking for support from foreign communities and to find the best payment form first.
It would be nice if the players were willing to match whatever they get. That would show how much they want to go, they would still get 50% paid for, and you wouldn't need to raise so much money. Jut my two cents.
The whole thing is not about mathematical possibilities of someone losing or winning... It is about THE POWAH OF THE COMMUNITY!!!
This reminds me of a year 1989 and the SOLIRARNOŚĆ movement that kicked the commie's butt and gave freedom to half the EU we now know. It is about the solidarity uniting all... GOGO Poland!! That is the spirit!!!
In his blog, Draco stated that if we manage to send him the only thing he could promise us is to train as hard as he can. He already played like 30 games on iccup in a single day.
If it's a scam it's a great one, because the *entire* Polish community is involved. Everything's very transparent, there are constant updates, there's nothing to worry about.
We are not trying to scam. This is more of Polish community project, I can imagine it would be hard to find this kind of dedication outside Poland - in the end, we are talking about sending the Poles for WCG.
Yet, if you feel like want to contribute in this project, each cent will help. And you will see your name on t-shirt weared by player(s) we will send this way.
UPDATE: 9403,31 PLN gathered (~3250 USD), so one additional player will be played by community for sure.
I would pay and have the means but Draco's attitude doesn't make it worth it... If it was someone like Mondragon I'd donate in an instant. The power of Good Manner!!!
Draco said he has been practising for Polish WCG seriously and he will prepare seriously as well if he would go for WCG Finals to China. 10$ is not that much, I just won't buy few beers one day, not a big case, I donated ;-) Gogog Draco.
BTW lols at Testie, number of posts telling about community knowdledge, come on :-D
If I had the money to donate i'd definately want to send Lzgamer to the WCG Grand Finals because i know hes putting in a tonne of work into his SC game and I personally feel he really deserves it.
Go Go Lz!
also, i'm not sure how much yayba and draco are practicing so they might be very good people to send aswell.
It would be nice if the players were willing to match whatever they get. That would show how much they want to go, they would still get 50% paid for, and you wouldn't need to raise so much money. Jut my two cents.
You cannot compare eastern european income to western european or american ones. The average income is about 1000 PLN which is roundabout 400 Dollars. Sure there are people which get much more, but I just wanted to point out that some people cant afford to pay 1300 Dollars (about 50%) just to fly to China to play Starcraft. Therefore it is a very good thing what Raven is doing, imho.
(Yea, I know, Draco is about average and has more money, but just to show you the situation in which Yayba is)...
I just hope the communitysponsered Gamers dont get kicked in the first round of Grand Finals (like Draco in 2008 ;P).
Anyways, I'd love to donate a bit, but I don't have Paypal. Meh...
Well, the average income in Poland is actually 3300 PLN, which is roughly 1k USD and 1k Euro in the industrial sector alone. Great Britian's minimum salary is like 1,3k Euro, which should give you the idea. Not many (young) people can afford to pay that much just to play @ WCG.
1000 PLN is a minimal income, but yes, many many ppl earn this sum of money a month
btw whats with this negativity about Draco`s attitude? Is it because he said that he didnt train to TSL? (yet he almost won that thing). I cannot imagine he is not taking this seriously now that theres money for at least one addititional player to go. Hes known for his pride.
On September 29 2009 21:04 True_Spike wrote: Well, the average income in Poland is actually 3300 PLN, which is roughly 1k USD and 1k Euro in the industrial sector alone. Great Britian's minimum salary is like 1,3k Euro, which should give you the idea. Not many (young) people can afford to pay that much just to play @ WCG.
lol? Average incoming in Poland 3300 PLN? I guess we live in two different countries T.T
On September 29 2009 21:04 True_Spike wrote: Well, the average income in Poland is actually 3300 PLN, which is roughly 1k USD and 1k Euro in the industrial sector alone. Great Britian's minimum salary is like 1,3k Euro, which should give you the idea. Not many (young) people can afford to pay that much just to play @ WCG.
lol? Average incoming in Poland 3300 PLN? I guess we live in two different countries T.T
when most ppl`s income is closer to minimum and you have a few bankers and CEOs with a ZILLIONs of dollars, the avarage will be distorted
On September 29 2009 21:32 NvG.ShyToSs wrote: Very nice, once I get paid this week, I promise that I will donate 200 USD to help send Yayba and Draco to Chengdu
^_^
For that much money you will have your nick written on Draco's forehead ^^
It would be nice if the players were willing to match whatever they get. That would show how much they want to go, they would still get 50% paid for, and you wouldn't need to raise so much money. Jut my two cents.
You cannot compare eastern european income to western european or american ones. The average income is about 1000 PLN which is roundabout 400 Dollars. Sure there are people which get much more, but I just wanted to point out that some people cant afford to pay 1300 Dollars (about 50%) just to fly to China to play Starcraft. Therefore it is a very good thing what Raven is doing, imho.
(Yea, I know, Draco is about average and has more money, but just to show you the situation in which Yayba is)...
I just hope the communitysponsered Gamers dont get kicked in the first round of Grand Finals (like Draco in 2008 ;P).
Anyways, I'd love to donate a bit, but I don't have Paypal. Meh...
Dont get me wrong, Im not trying to compare incomes. I don't think it is a small amount of money even in western earning power, let alone Polish earning power. I just think it would be nice if there was SOME interest shown by the actual players themselves. For them to not say anything, it seems like there is an "all or nothing" vibe I get.
Probably that isn't true, and if this drive falls short they may be able to pick up the rest of the money elsewhere. It would just be nice to see a statement from the players about it so people know how serious they are. It looks like you will get enough anyway though.
I'm fine with what Raven is doing, and I have repeatedly said I admire the Polish scene for being so active. I just wish to see some more from the players themselves on the issue.
Yea, thats true. I searched for the polish statement of Draco, but I couldn't find it (altough I'm polish).
But for their defence, this action just started sunday. Maybe they wasn't sure whether it will work out and didn't want to commit themselves to some promises.
A statement now (where it is clear that at least one of them is going) from both would be good, imo.
I just misinterpret your point, Manifesto. Sorry for that
The whole fund thing was started by Raven and NetWars.pl without the knowledge of Draco and Yayba.
The negotiations with sponsors are not finished, so neither Draco nor Yayba dont know if they will use this money. Lets wait with statements untill they know how the things are going with sponsors.
On September 29 2009 21:04 True_Spike wrote: Well, the average income in Poland is actually 3300 PLN, which is roughly 1k USD and 1k Euro in the industrial sector alone. Great Britian's minimum salary is like 1,3k Euro, which should give you the idea. Not many (young) people can afford to pay that much just to play @ WCG.
lol? Average incoming in Poland 3300 PLN? I guess we live in two different countries T.T
Average income doesn't mean everyone in Poland makes this much, it doesn't mean that majority makes this much. It simply means that a lot of people make more than that, and heck of a lot of people make less than that. This is just a statistic and as far as I'm concerned it's accurate.
Nonetheless, just as I mentioned before, earning $1 in some states of US is almost twice as easier as earning 1PLN in most of the regions in Poland.
Average GDP per capita in Poland equals $16,200. Average GDP per capita in US equals $45,800.
About the average income. About 10 years ago it was 1500 PLN. Now its 3100 PLN. Imagine how much it will be in 10 years from now if the growth continues ^^
Guys youre out of your fucking minds. The only reason the OFFICIAL INCOME is this high (around 3k's) is because it's the AVERAGE, including politics and other people of interest that earn 15 times more than 90% of the community. But in the reality, the society is really poor, Im talking about 1500 PLN max for a typicall, person. Growth? There's no serious growth, try comparing current prices with the old ones, youll get to the point. And yes, western europe is like a fucking El Dorado to us.
Spending 4000zł to get the 50% of the price is quite a big deal.
On September 29 2009 23:23 Randos wrote: Guys youre out of your fucking minds. The only reason the OFFICIAL INCOME is this high (around 3k's) is because it's the AVERAGE, including politics and other people of interest that earn 15 times more than 90% of the community. But in the reality, the society is really poor, Im talking about 1500 PLN max for a typicall, person. Growth? There's no serious growth, try comparing current prices with the old ones, youll get to the point. And yes, western europe is like a fucking El Dorado to us.
Spending 4000zł to get the 50% of the price is quite a big deal.
Are you talking about netto or brutto? I am a 25 year old average Pole i would say and i earn 2500 PLN netto (with taxes already taken). Its about 4000 PLN brutto. I work as a bus driver.
My girlfriend works in a shop as salesmen and earns 1600 PLN netto. My dad is a welder. He earns about 3500 PLN netto. My mom is on retirement and she has 1400 PLN netto.
I would say these are the average incomes for the ordinary Pole.
Its obvious that to get to the point of that kind of salaries it usually takes time. It took me almost 5 years to earn that much. Earlier i had about 1300 PLN netto.
BTW polish taxes are about 1/3 of the brutto, so if someone earn 3000 PLN brutto, he actually gets 2000 PLN netto.
On September 29 2009 23:23 Randos wrote: Guys youre out of your fucking minds. The only reason the OFFICIAL INCOME is this high (around 3k's) is because it's the AVERAGE, including politics and other people of interest that earn 15 times more than 90% of the community. But in the reality, the society is really poor, Im talking about 1500 PLN max for a typicall, person. Growth? There's no serious growth, try comparing current prices with the old ones, youll get to the point. And yes, western europe is like a fucking El Dorado to us.
Spending 4000zł to get the 50% of the price is quite a big deal.
90% of the community? It's very huge exaggeration. I know people who are 19-21 and are already making more than average income on internships. Things are changing. I assume you only think like this from your own perspective and thus the perspective of your own regions. The whole Poland is not like that.
And about the Growth, that you mentioned barely exists... They is a significant growth. Poland is one of the few European countries that survived the recession without negative GDP measure. In fact, one can argue that because of that fact, Poland has never been in recession at all.
2006 GDP Q1 5.4% Q2 6.3% Q3 6.6%
2007 GDP Q1 7.4% Q2 6.5% Q3 6.5%
2008 GDP
Q1 6.1% Q2 6.0% Q3 5.0%
Compare this to United States: 2008 GDP Q1 -1.2% Q2 3% Q3 -2.8% Q4 -5.5%
Compare this to Germany 2008 GDP ~2.2%
I admit that standards of living of western countries are better undoubtedly but this El Dorado you're talking about only exists in your head.
Well, although this is cool and all, I really am quite against begging money from the community for this kind of purposes. Also, I believe that they don't really offer anything much for at least my personal enjoyment, since I won't be there live. They both also play Protoss. So good luck but... yeah, I think there are plenty of better ways to spend my little money. The community in general is quite cool(not including me of course), though, so it's still possible you'll be able to fund at least one player(hope Draco).
I think we need a statement from iG and BVG on how much money they are willing to put to send them... this way the community doesn't need to put 100% of the funds.
On September 29 2009 23:23 Randos wrote: Guys youre out of your fucking minds. The only reason the OFFICIAL INCOME is this high (around 3k's) is because it's the AVERAGE, including politics and other people of interest that earn 15 times more than 90% of the community. But in the reality, the society is really poor, Im talking about 1500 PLN max for a typicall, person. Growth? There's no serious growth, try comparing current prices with the old ones, youll get to the point. And yes, western europe is like a fucking El Dorado to us.
Spending 4000zł to get the 50% of the price is quite a big deal.
90% of the community? It's very huge exaggeration. I know people who are 19-21 and are already making more than average income on internships. Things are changing. I assume you only think like this from your own perspective and thus the perspective of your own regions. The whole Poland is not like that.
And about the Growth, that you mentioned barely exists... They is a significant growth. Poland is one of the few European countries that survived the recession without negative GDP measure. In fact, one can argue that because of that fact, Poland has never been in recession at all.
2006 GDP Q1 5.4% Q2 6.3% Q3 6.6%
2007 GDP Q1 7.4% Q2 6.5% Q3 6.5%
2008 GDP
Q1 6.1% Q2 6.0% Q3 5.0%
Compare this to United States: 2008 GDP Q1 -1.2% Q2 3% Q3 -2.8% Q4 -5.5%
Compare this to Germany 2008 GDP ~2.2%
I admit that standards of living of western countries are better undoubtedly but this El Dorado you're talking about only exists in your head.
Have you actually been to 90% of Poland?
BTW if these two players are actually asking for x amount of dollars they should have at least a 50% match.
On September 29 2009 23:23 Randos wrote: Guys youre out of your fucking minds. The only reason the OFFICIAL INCOME is this high (around 3k's) is because it's the AVERAGE, including politics and other people of interest that earn 15 times more than 90% of the community. But in the reality, the society is really poor, Im talking about 1500 PLN max for a typicall, person. Growth? There's no serious growth, try comparing current prices with the old ones, youll get to the point. And yes, western europe is like a fucking El Dorado to us.
Spending 4000zł to get the 50% of the price is quite a big deal.
90% of the community? It's very huge exaggeration. I know people who are 19-21 and are already making more than average income on internships. Things are changing. I assume you only think like this from your own perspective and thus the perspective of your own regions. The whole Poland is not like that.
And about the Growth, that you mentioned barely exists... They is a significant growth. Poland is one of the few European countries that survived the recession without negative GDP measure. In fact, one can argue that because of that fact, Poland has never been in recession at all.
2006 GDP Q1 5.4% Q2 6.3% Q3 6.6%
2007 GDP Q1 7.4% Q2 6.5% Q3 6.5%
2008 GDP
Q1 6.1% Q2 6.0% Q3 5.0%
Compare this to United States: 2008 GDP Q1 -1.2% Q2 3% Q3 -2.8% Q4 -5.5%
Compare this to Germany 2008 GDP ~2.2%
I admit that standards of living of western countries are better undoubtedly but this El Dorado you're talking about only exists in your head.
Have you actually been to 90% of Poland?
BTW if these two players are actually asking for x amount of dollars they should have at least a 50% match.
Did you even read what I wrote? I haven't been to 90% of Poland, but I've been to 40-50% of it and just from that I can deduct that a lot more than 10% of people make more average income.
Both, Draco and Yayba are students, and from what I publicly known are unemployed. (or rather don't have a steady source of income just like many students from all over the world).
They sure want to go, who wouldn't? They both play ICC (ASL tournament) so they are active. These players never asked for a penny. This money collecting program was constructed independently by the whole Polish scene. Moreover, Draco made a statement that he won't accept any free money from people, so because of that it was given a sponsoring character.
1. This action was organized so that we can give Starcraft a kickass farewell 2. It was started to show that Polish scene is well-organized and cares about Starcraft 3. It was supposed to show that even though Poles are not Rockefellers they still can achieve this financial goal, and while almost everyone thought it's impossible, now you can see that one addition player will go for sure. 4. This was supposed to be a thankyou to Polish players for their effort put into starcraft scene, especially Draco. 5. Polish scene thought that maybe other people would want to participate in this, since WCG is a world-wide event.
In summary, it was more about some principles and values, than about anything else.
I think that this is a great initiative that really shows the greatness of the BW community. I fear it wont be the same once SCII hit the shelves - it will turn into something like the CS-community packed with 14 year old nerds. Oh well... Wish i could contribute some money - but actually got NONE ... But you got my full (moral) support!
i really really hope that they can both go for some reason. they are both strong and i just hope that draco actually takes this serious... im tired of him letting me down with his lack of practice and taking big tournaments seriously
Thank you all folks, who donated via PayPal so far- around 60 USD landed on our account from you / people from GG.net. Not a fortune, but as we mentioned already - each cent counts!
4207$ already and there is still a few days left. It seems like you just might be able to send both players to WCG.
Sadly, I cannot donate, as I do not have even any money for myself. However, I wish you the best of luck in your endavour and I hope that both players manage to go.
Even polish community doesn't know what is or even if there is any draco's acc on ICCUP. I bet he is practising mostly on AGL (polish SC ladder server).
As for the retirement... He has declared it only once. After that he started playing SC again and is now in BVG esport team. You may think of him as retired because, as i said, even polish commmunity didn't know exacly what he was up to. Besides that, how do u declare retirement when not being a progamer? Have Ret been retired?
Draco is known to keep the community wondering all the time about him and his future, but never answering any particular questions exacly.
About the costs: As Raven posted on starcraft2.ingame.de About half the costs goes to companies organising the World WCG: "ICM, korean comany behind WCG, which is handling the Grand Final" and polish WCG organisers.
Last but not least, i wanted to thank everyone that were/ are gonna donate!!! thanks very much guys!! We appreciate it a lot!!
iG that is Yayba's clan transferred 500 PLN in general, not only for Yayba.
Draco's BVG by releasing news at their site declared to pay any money needed but after critique changed that statement to declared sums: firstly 500 and now 1000PLN. edit: this doesn't mean BVG isn't going to pay more
The biggest transfer from a private person was 350 PLN so far
GL with that Macieju, unfortunately I can't help since I'm way below 0 on my account (which is usual for end/beginning of a month), perhaps if I get paid before the deadline I'll send in some cash too. I just hope you won't get raped afterwards by taxes and what not, like this guy who was giving excess bread to the poor and he went bankrupt after they got to him (we do live in a fucked up country)...
Draco's blog that started it all translation if you want to pay me for doing this (lol) quote parts you don't like and write how would you phrase them better
"Draco and WCG"
After being encouraged by few people I've decided to put my thoughts about last WCG in form of blog.
This is the first time when I decide to publish my thoughts in this form and I'm not fully convinced about righteousness of writing this text. I reminiscence times when I was in Korea though - I was being encouraged to write a blog and in the long run I've probably made a mistake by not deciding for this step. I'm not in the same situation now - I have friends and family around me. Formerly the only way to talk about problems to my hearts content was internet and maybe if I would write a blog it would be easier to overcome them, also many people would get to know more about progaming in Korea. Anyway I decide to do this now, maybe about something different because on the subject of WCG though. As some say "better late than never", perhaps someone will get interested...
In contrast to last years, during this vacation I wanted to prepare professionally for this year's WCG finals.
It wasn't easy though because for the last 2,5 months I had no free time at all. I had ended summer session relatively late because only in the 1st week of July. Later time for relax had to be found - so I travelled to Hel for 3 weeks to windsurf, party, saying straight - to rest. After coming back, according to my father's expectations I started working in his firm and for more than a month I had been working for 10 hours a day. It was after first weekend of August and during this whole time it was hard to square my time for work, pursue expectations of BVG and private life (mainly girlfriend but also weddings, all events it was befit to be at). 2 weeks were left for WCG and there was 5-hour long revising exam about hard subject, WCG training and few not-closed firm cases. I though "easy you will make it - 2 weeks is a lot of time" - nothing more confusing, they came and went as fast as other part of vacation, there had been thousands of issues which interrupted my training - and suddenly I had to pack my keyboard and mouse into backpack and from my plans of "professional preparing" came out "professional recall of maps".
I came to "Blue City" on Saturday's morning, punctually as usual.
As in every year WCG "starts", according to plan, at 10 AM - in practice it's always at least 12:00. Nor me nor anyone else wanted to risk disqualification, that's why fondly attendance was 100%. I've even heard that some players were told to be at 8 AM because they were threatened with disqualification otherwise. At least as if WCG had been delayed by players ever - lol. I was pleasantly surprised about players' conditions: steady tables covered with trim, comfortable chairs, lack of crowds bustling behind the back - in short everything was in perfect order. Well maybe excluding the fact all players should had quieting headphones on their ears because commentary was quite loud and could jar and distract some. I didn't envy fans, who weren't treated in the best way this year.
First games, with Tarson, went relatively smoothly.
In the game number one I've made few mistakes and in one point I thought it would be hard to win it. To my fortune though Tarson has made fatal mistake in unit control what on map like Python decided about win completely. By the 2nd game I was warmed up and I've lead match to 2-0 in rather firm way.
Next match with ZZZero wasn't as easy and cost me lot's of strength.
Unfortunately times when I was in condition to play 20-30 games daily has passed and after WCG I can feel pain in my back till this day. Coming back to match itself - first game, where I've made two important mistakes: I wasn't gathering gas for quite long time in second expo what makes my unit combo consist mostly zealots and the fact I've let ZZZero to put flanking into use and cause chaos that favours zerg in ZvP so much. Fortunately my opponent haven't decided for final attack and waited till last exp on the map was mined out. I knew by then that if I could hold those few minutes I would win that game. Quite funny curiosity is I haven't known Broodlings could be thrown at ultralisks and everyone that has seen that game noticed I was using them on zerglings, hydras, and even drones while I could literally take out all ultralisks depriving ZZZero of smallest chances to win that game. But oh well - how often do you use queens and ultralisks in ZvZ? Despite 10 years of training in S.C. I still don't know everything about this game - what somewhat makes me happy. Game number two on Tau Cross is a sequence of mistakes following each other - bad timing, unnecessary summoning of archon from 2 temps, abysmal control, buildings placement... Just - a game it's better to forget about. Third map: it went smoothly, although there were moments "on a verge". I could not risk attack once again because in situation when map is divided in 50:50 ratio, it's always in zerg's business to attack. I wanted to spare fans from another torment and things like broodling micro though ;-). On a limit 200/200 without probes I left main and annihilating opponent turned out to be formality.
Match against Paranoid for 2009 finale
In an effect of rejecting Tau Cross happens. I've played hundreds of games on this map in times when I was in SparkyZ. I was very satisfied to play on it, what could be seen during the game. Paranoid over-macroed what made him lose timings and lose the game. During second encounter on Colloseum he played very good and I made few decision mistakes, which on map favouring zerg turned out to be significant enough to lead it to lose. Game number three in which I haven't displayed good manners: Paranoid tries to cheese me, at least it looked like that to me because probably he gained more economically after all, while I should use the fact he his burrow-lings play didn't work out. For next several seconds I was racking my brains over going for speed zels from 4 gates or stargate / 3gate. I chose the latter what came out to be so wrong decision for it turns out "Draco the blue eyed progamer" loses games over [Polish] WCG 2009 finale against 6~ hydras with range, which destroy nexus and lead the game to formal Paranoid's win. In this moment my comment "pathetic", which I regret of course, but in order not to leave any doubts about what I considered pathetic: it was my knowledge of the map and fact how I lost such important game. In the next part of the game I can see Queens flying around the map and I know I will have to type in "gg" any moment. After a while I type it along with quotation marks what along with previous comment leads to not so small controversy. I got carried away, I behaved not as experienced player befits and I don't mention this in my blog to state that I have the right to do that. I've wanted to explain that playing with units such as queen, battle cruiser, infested terran, etc is seen in Korea as humiliation of opponent and behaviour determined as "bad manner". It was cleared up later that paranoid didn't mean that and those units were foreseen in his original build. I apologized him for my comment right after the match, audience too that's why I hope this situation will be understood and forgotten by third party. From this point I wish Paranoid success during the finals in Chengdu. He's incredibly nice and humble person and I'd like to definitely criticize anyone who tries to deny his success on this year's WCG.
My nerves never served me well - vs Yayba 0:2.
Unfortunately I am rather vehement person, what was always my problem in tourneys and leagues. Since I can remember when I get pissed off I want to finish next game as fast as possible, often doing inappropriate and disastrous decisions. Who would think, I am player experienced enough by now that I shouldn't fly into passion only because I am losing 0-1 because matches or whole tourneys are being won in such moments, for example Paranoid losing 0-1 to me after out first game or memorable TSL finale where after winning 2-0 with Iefnaij I've lost 2-3 in the end. It was the same during the match with Yayba, not waiting a moment after the match with Paranoid I was instantly "ready" to play next game. I had thousands of thoughts in my head and I couldn't focus on the game. During the first game the first dozen or so seconds I was still thinking I was playing PvZ and I run with my Probe down the map in an attempt to make Pylon near expo. I've noticed what I was doing was wrong after a moment and put my Probe back at minerals. My analysis before WCG had shown that Yayba is good in PvP in early game; I should be favourite in a longer game focused on macro though. What was my earlier analysis worth though when instead of defending push I flew my shuttle carelessly out of main only to type "gg" 3rd time in a row soon after. Second game and complete loss of focus again. I played centre-gate without a thought, scouted idiotically down the map using probe instead of waiting near the pylon for making gates what causes me to make 1st gate having ~200 minerals. In the instant Yayba goes with his Probe through the centre I'm wondering if this is a dream and I'm sure my adventure with WCG is coming to an end. Just few more desperate tries and I'm losing my fourth game in a row.
Before WCG I was repeating to myself many times that if I lose then nothing will happen and I think I was thinking like that actually. Many years has passed and sometimes I forget how it was to be This Draco who was so strongly determined to win every tourney he was participating in. However as well as 2 years ago when I laced 5th I am feeling huge hunger and resentment towards myself that I could have played much better. In moments such as this youthful desire of "world conquer" and fervour to train is coming back to life but this how does this matter when I can't do anything anymore? I can only hope that some sponsor will be found, who will bestow, who knows if not the last chance to get the World Cyber Games medal to me.
also, there is a thread asking Yayba what does he think about all of this but since it's almost 3 AM in Poland there rather aren't going to be any responses soon...
if you want to pay me for doing this (lol) quote parts you don't like and write how would you phrase them better
You did such a poor job that I'd have to rewrite most of it. I hope you contacted the original author and got his approval to post it in the form you did, otherwise if I were you, I'd delete this and never attempt to translate anything again, at least not until you grasp the basics of English, usage of articles in particular.
if you want to pay me for doing this (lol) quote parts you don't like and write how would you phrase them better
You did such a poor job that I'd have to rewrite most of it. I hope you contacted the original author and got his approval to post it in the form you did, otherwise if I were you, I'd delete this and never attempt to translate anything again, at least not until you grasp the basics of English, usage of articles in particular.
oO is this sarcasm between friends or serious? I thought his translation was OK. It was obviously not by a native english speaker, but it was perfectly comprehensible.
And btw:
Map which on I've played hundreds of games in times when I was in SparkyZ, so I was very satisfied, what as could be seen - was transferred to image of game on this map [I'm pretty sure this sentence is badly translated].
Yeah, it is lol. It's difficult to express that many different things within one sentence without the sentence becoming monstrous and garbled. I don't know if that's different in Polish, but you should break it into a couple sentence in english imo.
its funny how draco working mad hours at his dad's firm can't even front any of the money. instead relies purely on donations. it just irks me because earlier some polish guy was saying how they have no jobs and they are making miniscule amounts of money, but whatever. i guess he has the money to go windsurfing and partying for a couple weeks, but can't even match any of the donations he is receiving to send his ass to the WCG
meh i'd gladly donate if I felt those players were really dedicated and had the possibility to put enough time into practice, but imo it just seems like draco is looking for a free trip to korea. no thx.
On October 02 2009 06:57 beetlelisk wrote: I have need to edit already
btw Raven wrote something about getting additional 1600PLN from http://www.pureesports.com/ but their site is down now (for me?)
Our site should be up... *checks* uh... slow and ugly, but up. We've put off version 3 of the site to make it work with Google Wave (beta). Either way, I hope the community can step up and help these guys the rest of the way. I notice some people post ill will here about helping... that I have a hard time understanding. If you don't want to help then don't post at all.
if you want to pay me for doing this (lol) quote parts you don't like and write how would you phrase them better
You did such a poor job that I'd have to rewrite most of it. I hope you contacted the original author and got his approval to post it in the form you did, otherwise if I were you, I'd delete this and never attempt to translate anything again, at least not until you grasp the basics of English, usage of articles in particular.
Mentos it's on netwars.pl since 29th http://www.netwars.pl/forumview.php?t=110227 I asked Raven if he would like to post this because he specifically asked to send everything to him as he is organizer - he told me to ask BVG so I posted comment on their site and mailed Norad who replied me with "there is no problem at all with doing this".
Since you are not going to quote and rephrase anything then good job with using your eyes, troll.
if you want to pay me for doing this (lol) quote parts you don't like and write how would you phrase them better
You did such a poor job that I'd have to rewrite most of it. I hope you contacted the original author and got his approval to post it in the form you did, otherwise if I were you, I'd delete this and never attempt to translate anything again, at least not until you grasp the basics of English, usage of articles in particular.
oO is this sarcasm between friends or serious? I thought his translation was OK. It was obviously not by a native english speaker, but it was perfectly comprehensible.
Map which on I've played hundreds of games in times when I was in SparkyZ, so I was very satisfied, what as could be seen - was transferred to image of game on this map [I'm pretty sure this sentence is badly translated].
Yeah, it is lol. It's difficult to express that many different things within one sentence without the sentence becoming monstrous and garbled. I don't know if that's different in Polish, but you should break it into a couple sentence in english imo.
On October 02 2009 12:04 hifriend wrote: meh i'd gladly donate if I felt those players were really dedicated and had the possibility to put enough time into practice, but imo it just seems like draco is looking for a free trip to korea. no thx.
On October 02 2009 11:58 piratebay wrote: its funny how draco working mad hours at his dad's firm can't even front any of the money. instead relies purely on donations. it just irks me because earlier some polish guy was saying how they have no jobs and they are making miniscule amounts of money, but whatever. i guess he has the money to go windsurfing and partying for a couple weeks, but can't even match any of the donations he is receiving to send his ass to the WCG
The problem is Polish people love to make martyrs of themselves because they explain to themselves why they are doing nothing. 2nd thread about raising money on NW got closed because of some people going offtopic and arguing about salaries and shit.
edit: It's important to mention Raven's update here:
On September 29 2009 07:56 kimchiterran wrote: UPDATE: Just to make it absolutely clear. In Poland, as we accept the regular bank transfers (and back payments cost nothing), people can decide if they prefer to spend it on Yayba or Draco only (and have the money sent back if it fails), if they don't care which player goes for this money or even they don't care at all and would prefer to have this money used for further improvement terran.pl site (soon to start in English) or some new tournaments / ladders / showmatches. Of course, this is the case only if we really gather too much money. Please do remember you can track the donation status in a link below.
The cause is definitely not worth the money donated, I'd rather see it sent to some charity instead. Personally I wouldn't give a cent, and I don't so who am I to talk hrm..
I need to stress that this blog started it, Draco did not ask for money in it and I will post his comment about this. edit uh in about 6h oh shit g2g It wasn't big money gathering right away, there was a comment "ok let's all give him 1$ " first and then discussion about it, 1st thread on TL wasn't closed without a reason.
Nobody asked for any money! In fact, both players were (are?) very reluctant to use the money we raised. We don't expect that much at all, we just want 3 of our best players to represent our country in perhaps the last WCG Starcraft event. They do practice very hard, Draco even set up his DracoTV project as a way of saying thank you to the community - and to show that he takes the whole thing seriously. Yayba's playing quite a lot, as well.
Anyway, we've raised more than 17k PLN (17630,75 PLN to be exact, roughly 6 022 USD), which means both Draco and Yayba get to go. Raven will most likely be the WCG SC referee this year and some of us over at netwars.pl feel that it would be a good idea to help him pay for his flight, especially since he promised to (if possible) stream some of the WCG games (the ones *not* played on the main stage, obviously). In case you don't remember, Draco vs Midas wasn't supposed to be streamed at all, it *was*, in the end, thanks to Tasteless - and we all know how well that turned out ;- )
On October 02 2009 00:26 JinKazama23 wrote: 600$ more and we send both of them. 1000 more and we send both of them + Raven as a journalist :D
Are you kidding me? You want people to fund the entire Polish state?
Raven wrote on netwars that he will have "referee slot" on 90% chance. Its not 100% so its not definite but if he gets this slot this raise money action will help him cover the cost of flying to china.
and why not? The action has its momentum and its ok imo to help Raven for all he is doing for the community.
On October 02 2009 18:55 True_Spike wrote: In case you don't remember, Draco vs Midas wasn't supposed to be streamed at all, it *was*, in the end, thanks to Tasteless - and we all know how well that turned out ;- )
That was an amazing game.
"Actually I'm not quite sure about that, he might be able to pick the command center off! IF HE GETS THIS COMMAND CENTER THIS IS SO PIVOTAL FOR THIS GAME RIGHT NOW I AM NOT EVEN KIDDING."
"It looks like Draco has probably practiced this strategy AND OH MY GOD YES HE HAS CAUSE THERE ARE TWO DTs COMING OVER HERE RIGHT NOW"
Congratulation to Draco and Yayba. Now please take this opportunity and make it count.
Even though most of the money where raised by the Polish community I want say how proud I am of the Starcraft community, in how many other sports do you think countries would donate money to send there opponents to a tournament? Not many I believe... I think this shows more then anything else how much we care for this game.
This was written before even debate about possible donating started.
C4rys1is
He lost the games and had to complain and cry a little "in front of cameras" in hope for any sponsor.
Draco:
If you think I expected president of Razer, Samsung or Logitech to read this blog, what would enlighten him to sponsor me then I think you aren't all there I wrote this blog for totally different reasons, first of all on suggestion of few people and I did it just for those people. I don't gain anything with this blog. [This] blog isn't about justifying myself, I just wrote my thoughts and nothing else was coming to my head. I justified others that lost to me too because I wrote why they lost. On the other hand I preferred to focus on pointing out my own mistakes because how it would look like if my blog would be mainly about analyzing somebody's else mistakes? I've just specified my mistakes and haven't spared words of remark directed at me and I don't see it as explaining myself because I wasn't writing about that I had for example 40 [104F] degrees fever, broken finger or bouncing chair. I suppose there is fundamental difference between pointing out oneself mistakes and making excuses up - and there were none in my blog in my opinion. About training itself: it's common sense that I wouldn't be so insolent to write anywhere about looking for a sponsor while not being sure if I'd like to prepare or not. And again, I'm writing here not because I believe that any of the potential sponsors will see this post but as explanation for those who have read the blog.
Just so you know, we finished the raising funds and will be able to send both players it seems. Thank you all who donated, your input is very appreciated.
I will try to post some sort of summary and t-shirt design after I finish counting cash collected from you.
Also I'll edit my first post so people know it's well done
On October 02 2009 22:29 motbob wrote: Basically to echo everyone in this thread I hope Draco puts in $3000 worth of effort into practicing for this event... or at least more than $0
Same echo could be found on GG.net from some ppl. I was hearing that echo and had to respond to it.
Considering the top foreign SC players, almost all have to practice constantly to maintain their current form. I wrote ALMOST ALL, because few of them, including Draco, Ret, Mondragon, maybe some other, Don't have to practice all the time to be on top. Of course, if they dont practice at all, they slump heavly. But IMO only a handful of games can improve their skills greatfully and help comeback to the top form. 1 thing to add here from me: I didn't include Idra into the list above because, obviously, he is a practising machine considering him being a progamer. To spice it even more, i think that if Idra wouldn't be a progamer, he would rather be the runner-up kind of foreign SC player to the mentioned above. One more thing, if, Ret, Mondi and the other "supreme" foreign players (maybe not Draco, since he had his chance) would be in Korea right now, they would perform a lot better than Idra IMO.
P.S. Please dont consider it as an offence or something, i am just laying my thoughts^^
edit: 1 question to native english users: what do you think about my english? I am curious about an opinion from you since i dind't have the chance to consult my skill with any native english speaker. Thanks in advance
EPT
to China, we do promise every single cent will be spent on providing some goods to Starcraft community (additional coverage from WCG finals, some event, tourney maybe? etc.). UPDATE: Just to make it absolutely clear. In Poland, as we accept the regular bank transfers (and back payments cost nothing), people can decide if they prefer to spend it on Yayba or Draco only (and have the money sent back if it fails), if they don't care which player goes for this money or even they don't care at all and would prefer to have this money used for further improvement terran.pl site (soon to start in English) or some new tournaments / ladders / showmatches. Of course, this is the case only if we really gather too much money. Please do remember you can track the donation status in a link below.
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